i think its too early to put on the judges wig. lets wait till all the facts come in.

As for reactions to anything you say, what on this earth can any Christian say about virtually any topic that won’t draw criticism from those who reject Jesus Christ? Granted, a lot of people, including a lot of Christians, have valid reasons for distrusting Christian leaders, but as you well know, some people just jump on every opportunity to rub our faces in a new scandal.

My response has been much the same as yours: To the extent that Haggard is guilty of any of the charges, he opened himself up for it. He’s not the first evangelist (or politician) to be “outted” as a hypocrite, and I’m sad to say he won’t be the last. We are warned in scripture to “be careful where you stand, lest you fall,” and the more public the stand, the harder the fall, when we make bad choices.

Meanwhile, God goes on loving and offering redemption. If we were perfect, we wouldn’t need grace, and boy, do we need grace!

La Shawn Barber comments on Haggard, reminding us that all have sinned. She speaks of God’s forgiveness and how Christians should pray for Haggard and head God’s warning in Galatians 6:1 less we also slip and fall.

What Christians need to remember is that Jesus was neither a “liberal” nor a “conservative”. He was, in fact, considerably better than both (well, at least judging by the “liberal” Christians and the “conservative” Christians that I have met in my lifetime). As Christians, we ARE NOT confronted with a choice between being “liberal” or “conservative”– which some others in this thread have likened to a choice between compassion and purity. We are called to be BOTH compassionate AND pure. Don’t believe it? Go back and re-read the 8th chapter of the Gospel of John when the woman caught in the act of adultery is brought before Jesus. I offer this story as “proof” that Jesus was BETTER than BOTH the “liberals” AND the “conservatives.” The “conservatives” wanted to stone this woman to death. First, Jesus exposes these men for what they are – viz. hypocrites. We read in John 8:7 “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” I believe that Jesus was behaving like a “liberal” here. When all of the woman’s accusers left, Jesus uttered the first part of John 8:11 “Then neither do I condemn you.” Look at THAT, an act of “compassion” — He forgave her. Once again, he is acting like a liberal. But wait. There’s more. Then there’s the other half of John 8:11 where Jesus says “Go now and leave your life of sin.” Look at that. IMHO, that statement is at least two “conservative” ideas stated succinctly in a single sentence. First of all, He doesn’t mince words. He calls adultery what it is, viz. SIN. His statement is an acknowledgement that SIN is real, it is wrong, and that this woman is guilty. Second, Jesus makes it clear that He respects God law AND that He expects others to do the same. He exhorts the woman to lead a life that is “pure”. Now He is behaving like a “conservative”. So you see, Jesus was BOTH compassionate AND pure, BOTH “liberal” and “conservative” – He is the best of both. I submit to you then, that Christianity is NOT an either/or proposition. Compassion and purity are NOT mutually exclusive. Get it?

Princeton University’s on-line dictionary gives 3 definitions for the word “perverted”:

kinky: (used of sexual behavior) showing or appealing to bizarre or deviant tastes; “kinky sex”; “perverted practices”

distorted: having an intended meaning altered or misrepresented; “many of the facts seemed twisted out of any semblance to reality”; “a perverted translation of the poem”

depraved: marked by immorality; deviating from what is considered right or proper or good; “depraved criminals”; “a perverted sense of loyalty”; “the reprobate conduct of a gambling aristocrat”

Kinky – bizarre or deviant – check.

Distorted – having an intended meaning altered – nope.

Depraved – marked by immorality; deviating from what is considered right or proper – check.

Some of those are based on morals that many possess because of religious beliefs. I am an atheist, so my definition is slightly different. I believe that perverted means:

Harmful to the species; non-contributing to its survival chances.

Disregarding the fact that AIDS is primarily spread by homosexual behavior, which is killing millions across the globe and therefore harms the ability for the species to survive, we still have the simple fact that homosexual behavior is contrary to the laws of nature in that sexual activity is a mechanism that has evolved over the Milena to help the species procreate and therefore continue to exist generation after generation.

The larger the homosexual population, the less the chances for survival. Therefore it is harmful to the species. That fits my definition of perverted exactly. Since it is unnatural and perverted, it is also deviant, and learned behavior. No serious linkage to genetics have ever been proved scientifically and it is not likely to be. Reason? How do homosexuals pass on their genes?

I must add that I find it difficult to imagine two males having sex to be anything besides disgusting. The plumbing and biology are incorrect.

Hehe… Sorry Kevin, had to take a shot… I mean this is the biggest story on the internet today, besides conservatives trying to resurrect the ghost of non-existent WMD’s while ignoring why the Bush administration published nuclear bomb manuals on…

Jesus said give unto Caeser what’s Caesar’s and unto God what is God’s

That’s an interesting stretch of what the Bible says. Do you recall the context in which Jesus said that?

Now juxtapose that with the following verses: Job 34:17 & Psa 67:4 from OT and from the NT, all of Roms 13, Heb chps 4 & 13. Seems to me that your assertion is a liberal fallacy.

As an aside to others vis a vis morality & greed (doesn’t have to be money, can be power or status), 1 Tim 3 specifically deals with those who would be spiritual leaders. Based on that, I think most mega churches, or those lead by female ‘pastors’ don’t quite fit the standard.

In any case, the entire Book of 1 Timothy is relevant to all aspects of this thread and I highly encourage all to read it. If you think you know it, then refresh yourself anyway. I daresay that some of the ‘christian’, but divers, ideas expressed today need to be contrasted against the Biblical Standard.

Additionally, let’s not forget to also pray for the the accuser. God loves him also.

The reporter (and editors) who decided to break a story about Ted Haggard based only on the word of a gay hooker broke a fundamental rule of journalism. (I tried to explain this to a commenter earlier). It does not matter that Haggard la…