Not that I really care what former football player Michael Irvin said, but apparently he’s going to get away with what would get a white man fired and/or ostracized.
Last week Irvin said that Dallas Cowboys quarterback Tony Romo, who is white, must have some “black” in him because he’s a good athlete. I won’t quote the rest. Suffice it to say, Irvin could use a few lessons in diction.
Normally, this would be a compliment (for blacks), would it not? I mean, how many among us don’t believe blacks are genetically superior athletes? I believe they are, and I also believe that physical abilities aren’t the only abilities heavily influenced by genetics. Mental abilities…well, I won’t go there today.
That’s not to say that Romo has some “black” in him or that whites aren’t good athletes. But generally speaking, blacks just do certain things better, like sprinting, for instance.
In his own ineloquent way, Irvin expressed what most people know but don’t talk about in public. I don’t think he should be fired or made to apologize, but I’d be remiss on this Monday morning if I didn’t point out the dirty double standards.
(Writing about double standards is a specialty of mine.)
You may recall that Rush Limbaugh was fired from his sportscasting gig for implying that Donovan McNabb, black quarterback for the Philadelphia Eagles, was hyped up as a great quarterback because he was black.
I agreed with Limbaugh and wrote a post last year making fun of the NAACP for chastising one of its members for agreeing with Limbaugh. If I could care any less than I do about this whole mess, it would be criminal. 
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Why, thank you, La Shawn. I thought I was the only person to notice that world-class sprinters today are mostly of West African descent. God gave them the bodies best-suited to the task.
I see no double standard in this instance..
I remember when Billy Packer called Allen Iverson a monkey back in ‘96…he didnt mean to be racially demeaning, but there was some outrcy there. He didnt get fired though…
In my opinion, Rush Limbaugh was wrong about McNabb. He is a very good quarterback. I didnt see any huge hyping up just because he was a black quarterback.
Speaking of Rush Limbaugh. How did he even get that job as NFL commentator? He had no experience as a sports commentator, no experience in football.
Hmmm, I wonder, did he get the job just because he was a white conservative?
As I think more about this, I remember when Charles Barkley was saying he needed more “tough white guys” on his basketball team back when he played with the Houston Rockets.
Larry Bird recently saying the NBA needs more good white players.
Silly statements, not racially demeaning though.
No double standard….
Lashawn,
The idea that “blacks” are genetically superior athletes is preposterous — if only because all “blacks” do not share in the same genetic advantages, nor in all athletic pursuits.
But to say one family has a genetic advantage in a certain area (i.e. a tall family being better basketball players, a hearty family building better linemen,) I can get behind.
So what are we talking about? Strength? - most (if not all) strength records are held by europeans.
Speed? Most - if not all cycling, and skating records held bu American/europeans.
endurance? Which brother won the tour de france, cause I missed it.
The idea that there is a “black” predisposition to sports doesn’t bear itself out at many — if not all — levels. Blacks do not dominate soccor, baseball, nor international basketball for that matter.
Sometimes we get so caught up in what we see, we forget that there is a larger world.
As far as Michael Irvin’s comments — I agree that they were wrong, if only because they were ignorant. He should apologize not only for insulting Tony Romo, but also for insulting Warren Moon and Donovan McNabb and Doug Williams — black quarterbacks who earn their money quarterbacking, and not being a runningback who sometimes passes.
And he should apologize to Chris Leak, who is the pure passer at Florida, while white Tim Teabow is the “scrambling quarterback”.
Racial generalizations are stupid because — no matter how common or true we THINK they are — no one deserves to be burdended by our opinion of what we think their abilities are.
It’s more than simply a double standard, it’s becoming a “politically correct” mockery. If Romo were to respond to this idiot in kind it would set off a firestorm of undeserved controversy. Michael Richards who used a word often used by blacks in rap songs, video’s, movie’s and socially, now must kowtow to the race baiters. Eventually, hopefully sooner than later, this mess has to stop!
Neo-
“Michael Richards who used a word often used by blacks in rap songs, video’s, movie’s and socially, now must kowtow to the race baiters.”
Ummm, telling someone “50 years ago we’d be hanging you and sticking a fork up your…” is probably enough to elicit an apology.
Folks can disagree about the “N” word all day long, but that really wasn’t the crescendo of that particular tirade.
And the “kowtow” has less to do with political correctness than with selling Season 7 of Seinfeld.
La Shawn, For all his knowledge about pro-football,Michael Irvin is frankly challenged. He has no conscious memory of a quarterback by the name of Fran Tarkenton who was for many years the quintessence of the scrambling quarterback. Had he any inkling of Tarkenton’s prowess, he would never have felt the need to compliment the young Dallas quarterback as he did. By the way, I’m a Dallas fan but I’m not a Michael Irvin fan. He actually never played to his potential and he embarrassed the Cowboys with his tasteless off the field scandals. I’m actually surprised he is commentating.
I sent a reply about Michael Richards’ rant to a Black web site.
I said (paraphrased) that Chris Rock’s rant on HBO about Whites (Crackers, etc…) was at least as “racist” against Whites as Richards’s was against Blacks.
I said that I am still waiting for Rock to apologize.
The “hate replies” I got were revealing - that many Blacks are wallowing in victimhood so badly they don’t see the connection. Some Blacks believe they have an exclusive as victims.
Sonnyredd,
A performer losing his cool and allowing himself to go into a tirade while performing is definitely not a good thing, to which I agree. The idea is, as La Shawn set forth, the double standard when chosing what can be said and when.
As for the “50 year’s ago” remark, much can be said with respect to the many ethnic peoples of this country. Some fifty years ago after Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor many Japanese were placed in internment camps. Does that mean I can’t make a reference, rhetorical or otherwise, in the presense of Japanese Americans? All of these things are in the past, get over it and move on.
You are absolutely correct that the kowtowing is to protect his career. The question is why should he have to grovel to the likes of those who use race as a tool for profit. His apology should have been enough. As with Ervin, many blacks commentors make racially charged statements with impunity. My point is if you can’t take it don’t dish it out.
Neo-
We don’t disagree that follishness — whether from blacks or whites — is foolishness.
But when Dennis Rodman insulted the mormons, he apologized. When Reggie White insulted everybody — he apologized. The point is, that one doesn’t spew insults and not be prepared to bear the consequences.
As to the fact that much can be said about all sorts of groups — you’re right. Doesn’t make it any more tolerable. Star (of the Star and Bucwild radio show) was fired for insulting asians in the wake of the tsunami, and then for doing it again (along with some other nonsense) earlier this year.
Insult a group of people — use ni66er, w0p, $pic, k*ke, or what have you and you run the risk of causing yourself a real problem.
Ask Mel Gibson.
@ neolibertian - it seems as though you’re trying to justify a double standard with one of your own. kkkramer simply “lost his cool” and “used a word that’s used on many rap records” yet you want to get bent out of shape about something said by michael irvin. if you don’t get bent out of shape over BOTH guys’ comments then you, my friend, are promoting a double standard just as well.
“Colorblind.” That is the problem. Back in the late sixties and early seventies the mantra was that we should all be “colorblind.” Michael Irvin violated the “colorblind” rule. That rule orders that we never, ever notice or refer to one’s race under any circumstances.
In fact, in the early seventies, the feds ordered the race identification blank off of all federal forms. They quickly reversed that decision, because they discovered that they had no way to document their affirmative action goals/quotas.
“Colorblind” can not be a one way street. It applies to everybody or nobody.
Are black athletes better than white athletes? On some teams in some regions in some sports they are. Why? Because they are.
There IS a racial double standard in this regard, Jimmy “the Greek†Snyder said pretty much the same thing that Michael Irvin did and was promptly fired for merely uttering the idea of racial differences.
Same thing with Al Campanis, a close friend of Jackie Robinson’s who helped him adjust to the Major Leagues – he was fired from his player development job with the Dodgers after he inarticulately answered a reporter’s question on the dirth of black managers in baseball.
Comparing Irvin’s remarks to Larry Bird’s, is an invidious comparison. Those blacks who’d charge that a prime reason for the lack of white fan support for basketball is “racist,†self-indict themselves for the very same bigotry, as there is likewise, little black fan support for hockey.
The fact is that personal preferences are not, in and of themselves, “racist,†except in the eyes of other racially bigoted people.
Michael Richards’ rant was indeed bigoted, or “racist,†in that he deliberately assailed audience members merely for their ethnic background. The guy’s a first class dope and it’s probably for the best that his career is already over.
Compare the way a Left-wing, “PC Liberal†Hollywood insider like Richards is treated compared to a Christian Conservative, like Mel Gibson. Gibson immediately apologized and sought both counseling and treatment, with very little, if any sympathy from the mainstream media. Richards’ has people falling all over themselves trying to excuse his rage-fueled hate spew.
He’s reached out to hucksters like Jackson & Sharpton to “make peace with the black community,†akin to a black entertainer reaching out to the likes of Tom Metzger and other professional bigots to “make peace with the white community.â€
Yet Richards is seen as “deserving of forgiveness,†by many in Hollywood and the media, whereas Gibson is not.
There is indeed a double standard, but it’s not entirely, or even mostly racial. All one has to do is to look at the way Conservative blacks like Michael Steele and Condoleeza Rice are routinely treated.
LaShawn,
Are you a genetics expert? If so, I’d love to see your research on this issue. It sounds like it will be truly ground breaking. After all, the overwhelming majority of current experts in the field have arrived at a different conclusion. I’m excited to see your work.
Why would Jesus allow genetics to give some better abilities than others?
I happen to think that blacks are GENERALLY better atheletes. I also think Jews are GENERALLY smarter and blacks and Hispanics are GENERALLY better dancers.
And come to think of it, Asians are GENERALLY smarter than the Jews.
It’s all about censorship (in this case of the White man barred from noticing color where Irvin spills out racism). However, Censorship is becoming America’s favorite past-time. The US gov’t (and their corporate friends), already detain protesters, ban books like “America Deceived” America Deceived (book) from Amazon and Wikipedia, and fire 21-year tenured, BYU physics professor Steven Jones because he proved explosives, thermite in particular, took down the WTC buildings. Either shut Irvin up or bring back Jimmy the Greek.
Actually Michael Dubois, Lashawn is right about genetics and most geneticists DO agree that there are indeed differences between various ethnic and racial groups over a number of parameters.
Given the even wider genetic differences between people in the same ethnic group, it would be surprising if there were not any such observable differences.
I ran track in HS and College.
I ran mainly middle distance (half mile, and 1000 yards mainly), and in HS, I ran for a team on Staten Island that was almost entirely white.
We had a number of very good middle distance and distance runners (at one point, something like 2 guys ran under two minutes for the half), but only a few really good sprinters.
The track coach at my HS used to say, “If I had our distance runners and Boys & Girls High’s (a predominatly black school in Brooklyn) sprinters, I’d win the Eastern States every year.
When I ran the half back then, there were few good black runners at that distance, but when I was put in the occasional quarter mile, I was often the only white.
There are very obvious and observable differences between both individuals and between various ethnic groups. Most of these differences are superfluous and almost all are within one standard deviation of the performing norm.
Why this idea is so threatening to so many people is hard to figure. The ONLY differences that count are those between individuals, because that’s how we each are judged – as individuals.
I’ve played and followed sports my whole life including basketball and football. Being white and growing up in predominately white schools/neighborhoods, I played sports with other white kids.
The first couple of times I played basketball or football with a skilled black kid was shocking. Never had I seen such quickness or explosiveness.
It was eye opening if not depressing for me as I came to realize I would never be paid to play either sport.
Every white kid who comes from similar circumstances can tell the same story as well.
Before I became a Christian, one of the first truths that I knew that were not part of accepted cultural thought was that blacks on the whole were athletically superior - at least in certain sports - than all other races.
Thanks La Shawn for pointing out that it’s a compliment to be considered part of a God gifted race. Believe me, there are men of other races who wish they had the athletic potential of many blacks.
There is no doubt about it when it comes to professional sports blacks are predominant. Especially, in NFL and NBA. They are good athletes, pure and simple.
Unfortunately, all this PC nonsense on what can or can’t be said by whom is ridiculous. I could care less what Jesse Jackson and other semantic police have to say about it.
John
There’s a new study
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/10831.html
out which proves people are more genetically different from one another and animals than previously thought.
I’ve seen this study referenced several times lately and it is regarded as scientifically valid.
Ms. Barber is not off track here. A few years ago one of the major networks tackled the subject of black superiority in sports. The put accelerometers and impact meeters on the athletes and actually measured who did what.
Result, blacks are more predisposed to being sprinters, and jumping and whites are more predisposed to pure strength. Now note I did not say all whites are stronger and all blacks are faster. They just showed a predisposition.
Fact of the matter is, afro Americans WERE bread based on physical characteristics. It was called slavery. It went on in this country for more years than not. Blacks were also prevented from reading and writing, again for more years than not.
Am I saying blacks are mentally inferior, or physically superior? No! But you can’t possibly think 300 years of slavery, the mental subjugation and the physical breading cannot have had an impact on our current situation.
Jimmy the Greek got fired for saying this. Jesse Jackson himself defended the Greek. Please don’t fire me La Shawn!
Your the best. Keep stirring things up!!!
sonnyredd,
The idea that “blacks†are genetically superior athletes is preposterous
Well, lets be clear here: nobody is claiming that blacks are superior in every athletic category. African-Americans comprise a high percentage of world-class runners, basketball players, football players, etc. They do not produce a high percentage of gymnasts or divers, for example. (Asians do, however.)
West Africans are clearly superior short-distance runners. East Africans are superior long-distance runners. By this I only mean that a disproportionate number of excellent runners will be found in these groups, not that they will hold every record or be the only competitive runners around, but that they will produce athletes in these categories far beyond on what their numbers would indicate.
So what are we talking about? Strength? - most (if not all) strength records are held by europeans.
And disproportionately by particular groups of “Europeans” like Bulgarians and Turks. Ever noticed that?
Speed? Most - if not all cycling, and skating records held bu American/europeans.
Lance Armstrong’s recent performance in a marathon is clear evidence that running and cycling speeds are not directly translatable. Cycling, unlike running, has been around for only a small fraction of humanity’s time on earth and no racial group is going to be particularly adapted to cycling in and of itself.
Seems to me some Greek guy named Jimmy also got canned for saying Blacks make great athletes. Maybe because he had a theory as to why.
LaShawn, interesting topic. I’m not 100% convinced that blacks have “genetic” athletic advantages. I’ve not seen enough evidence to back that theory but I’ll definitely check out the links you referenced.
I’ve developed my own unscientific theory regarding black athletic superiority - specifically with blacks in America. Weren’t the slaves in this country bought and traded like cattle? Is it not reasonable to assume that the slave owners sought to acquire the biggest strongest (and athletic) slaves for the purpose of eventually reproducing offspring with the same qualities? I hardly ever hear anyone talk about that as a reason for black athleticism.
What’s so disturbing about these generalizations–and, sorry to say, they aren’t based on scientific ground, no matter what the conspiracy web sites are pushing these days–is that even though they are at first glance neutral, ultimately this kind of thinking leads to prejudice. You know, bigotry. As in: Johnny doesn’t have to study; he’s black after all, and they’re only athletes. Or: we don’t want Gabe on our team. He’s a Jew, and while they can do well in school, they damn sure can’t play baseball. Etc.
Bryon Leftwich sai is a Black quarterback who is slow. The team has a white wide receiver. Leftwich and the white receiver comment on Leftwich being Black with no speed, but the receiver being white with speed.
No comments from anyone.
LaShawn - THANK YOU for posting this story.
Most comments on this thread completely missed the main point of this story.
Which is… if you are black, you can make racists comments
and if you are white - you will be harshly condemned by the media, probably fired, and your apology probably won’t be accepted and then you’ll be made to repeat the apology as per Jesse Jackson’s instructions.
Michael Irvin made racist comments A WEEK AGO and nobody knows! Why not a peep from the liberal biased media?
My gosh, the Michael Richards story was all over the media, the liberal politicians want action!! They forget about the fight of our lives against the jihadists - This is the real problem - KRAMER’S A RACIST.
Rush Limbaugh said the biased media overated McNabb because the left leaning media likes to have black heroes - it was controversial, and right or wrong, he was fired swiftly.
Howard Cosell got fired for saying, “Look at that little monkey go” live on TV, as a black running back had a long run for a touchdown. He was swiftly fired.
Michael Irvin knows he can say any racist thing he wants because the liberals and the media will not sweat it -
It’s a sad commentary, this racist double standard.
I applaud LaShawn for being the only blogger to post this and bring it to a national audience.
Too bad the comments want to focus, and argue, and debate about why blacks are faster or better at certain sports… - instead of recognizing THE DOUBLE STANDARD.
Michael Irvin was wrong and deserves to be fired, but he won’t be and that’s a problem. So I guess blacks can say whatever they want and never be held accountable?
The liberal biased media has created this double standard, shame.
Really? Have you ever examined the evidence? What would you even consider valid evidence?
The Vast Black Athletic Conspiracyâ„¢? Never heard of it.
are pushing these days–is that even though they are at first glance neutral, ultimately this kind of thinking leads to prejudice.
It is a new (or, perhaps, not-so-new) variant of that old logical fallacy, the appeal to emotion: the ‘appeal to political correctness.’ Bigots looking at black crime rates and might infer more than they should. I suppose we should sweep those statistics under the rug as well, right?
Whoooops!
“We had a number of very good middle distance and distance runners (at one point, something like 2 guys ran under two minutes for the half), but only a few really good sprinters.”
SHOULD’VE BEEN: (”at one point, something like 21 guys ran under two minutes for the half.”)
And we had eight guys under 1:55 for the half, which was a pretty huge number for a school our size.
There are few, if ANY geneticists who claim there are no differences between various ethnic and racial groups…that’s probably why those who wish to claim otherwise can’t find any studies to point to.
Arthur Jensen (author of the landmark “Bias in Mental Testing” a ponderous tome) came into that study predisposed to believe that any differences between any ethnic or racial groups had to have been manipulated or the result of “test bias.”
His studies showed his early presumptions to be wrong.
Again, most differences between groups are within ONE standard deviation of the mean, with much overlap, and that’s why there are some Byron Leftwich’s (slow black quaterbacks) and some speedy white wideouts.
I’ve never understood either the fascination with group differences, nor the denial of the obvious, as we are NOT judged as members of a group, but as individuals and there is certainly much diversity of ability and ambition between individuals of all backgrounds.
I think Irvin’s statements were flippant and inarticulate, but should he be fired merely because Jimmy “The Greek” Snyder was fired for saying pretty much the same thing and Limbaugh was fired for less?
I’d say NO.
I believe all this hypersensitivity feeds into the sickness of “political correctness” and it’s harming all of us.
“Bryon Leftwich sai is a Black quarterback who is slow. The team has a white wide receiver. Leftwich and the white receiver comment on Leftwich being Black with no speed, but the receiver being white with speed.
No comments from anyone.
Comment by DarkStar”
The receiver to which you’re referring is Matt Jones from Arkansas. He was the starting QB there and was a running QB. Strong and fast and white.
Michael Richards really did go off the deep end. I might have shrugged over the use of the word “nigger” given that so many blacks use that word casually themselves, but to bring up images of black murder victims hanging upside down by ropes? That was pretty horrendous. I don’t know what he was thinking. He deserves the flack he’s getting over that. HOWEVER . . . he went on the Jesse Jackson show to apologize to the black community? And Jesse Jackson is scolding him? Isn’t this the Jesse Jackson who called Jews “kikes” and referred to New York City as “Hymie Town”??? Hmmmmm.
I don’t know what happened to my first comment. Let’s try again.
About Michael Richards, he deserves the flack he’s getting, not for saying “nigger,” since so many blacks use that word casually themselves, but for calling to mind images of black murder victims hanging upside down by ropes. WTH?? What was he thinking? That is such a horrendous, violent, hateful image. His career is over.
What I don’t understand, however, is why he went on the Jesse Jackson program to apologize to the black community, and why Jesse Jackson is scolding him. Isn’t this the Jesse Jackson who called Jews “kikes” and referred to NYC as “Hymie Town”?? Hmmm.
I don’t like M. Irvin but the orange jumpsuit pic is over the top. ESPN/ABC/Disney likes him.
LB, why player hate ?
Still like you but (I think) this is a non - story.
Double standards extend beyond race to include class. I love the President, but he is one LAME DUCK DADDY. The Twin Spin from Buenos Aires is making me dizzy…
http://www.thekidalog.com/seejanemom/2006/11/no_childs_left_.html
Post #1:
Why, thank you, La Shawn. I thought I was the only person to notice that world-class sprinters today are mostly of West African descent. God gave them the bodies best-suited to the task.
So why don’t West African sprinters dominate track over black Americans, Canadians, Brits, etc. who are mixed with white? Folks claim that the 25% white blood is why black Americans score higher on IQ exams than Africans. Shouldn’t African, thus, show physical superiority (which they clearly don’t)?
LaShawn,
why the mug shot for Irvin and the standard shot for Romo? Photograpic double standard?
Ah, Lashawn, you are so correct….I have two black friends…(well, I have much more, but this post is but them)..both were friends and co-workers…the black female..(or as she likes to say “Pecan Tan”…and I were always making light jokes about each others races…usually I was defending hers and she mine…and she would cut down “one of her own” in a heartbeat…so would my black male friend…jokes about not being able to listen to his Gretchen (Wilson) because of the brother thumping in the car beside him….my point is this…we loved each other in spite of or because of our differences and we were not so PC that we could not share what every one thinks and is to afraid to say…we are different…EQUAL..but different…God had the right idea when He made us so…and what a boring world it would be if he hadn’t….Love ya, keep up the faith Sister!!!
Howard Cosell got fired for saying, “Look at that little monkey go†live on TV, as a black running back had a long run for a touchdown. He was swiftly fired.
Ummm, no, he wasn’t. He did leave Monday Night Football after that season (the quote above was from the first week of the season), but he stayed at ABC another two years after that.
why the mug shot for Irvin and the standard shot for Romo? Photograpic double standard?
Because Romo doesn’t have a mug shot.
#15-”Why would Jesus allow genetics to give some better abilities than others?
Comment by vikram — 11.27.06 @ 4:39 pm”
Because Jesus isn’t a Communist.
sonnyred said regarding strength:
And disproportionately by particular groups of “Europeans†like Bulgarians and Turks. Ever noticed that?
Not necessarily true. You are speaking specifically of the sport of Weightlifting, which is not very popular in America. The sport of Powerlifting is popular in America and is dominated by white Americans.
Sports dominated by whites include:
Weighlifting/Powerlifting
Swimming
Gymnastics
Tennis
Wrestling
Mixed martial arts
Non-speed/leaping field events in track and field.
Water Polo
All Winter Olympics events.
Most Olympic events.
So blacks are not physically superior. People simply use that to try and justify declaring blacks to be mentally inferior (thus closer to animal than other humans). Thomas Sowell as well as most of science has debunked this.
As far as Irvin’s statement, is it any different from someone referring to their Irish or Italian blood as reason for their toughness?
>>So why don’t West African sprinters dominate track over black Americans, Canadians, Brits, etc. who are mixed with white? Folks claim that the 25% white blood is why black Americans score higher on IQ exams than Africans.>>
Maybe because of hybrid vigor? That genetic trick that makes mutts healthier than purebreds?
Genetics is fascinating…but I wouldn’t attribute superior speed to breeding during the years of slavery … I’d attribute it to the fact that life in parts of Africa is _harsh_ and if a man couldn’t run fast, he wouldn’t have food to put on the table (or in the hut or whatever the equivalent might be). Superior hunters would be more likely to be successful, and more likely to survive hard times and more likely to have more offspring. Nature selects the best suited to a particular environment when the artificial equalizers invented by man aren’t available, and Nature is a harsh judge on what is “best suited”.
I’ve developed my own unscientific theory regarding black athletic superiority - specifically with blacks in America. Weren’t the slaves in this country bought and traded like cattle? Is it not reasonable to assume that the slave owners sought to acquire the biggest strongest (and athletic) slaves for the purpose of eventually reproducing offspring with the same qualities? I hardly ever hear anyone talk about that as a reason for black athleticism
This theory tends to be flawed. Slave owners would probably desire bigger stronger slaves with great endurance for the type of work needed. The problem is that lifting strength and endurance are not two things that blacks of West African descent are noted for. They are noted for speed, quickness, and leaping ability which would be rather counter productive for slave owners for obvious reasons.
“So blacks are not physically superior. People simply use that to try and justify declaring blacks to be mentally inferior”
Shade nails it.
It’s a ridiculous generalisation to use the term ‘blacks’ and ‘whites’ anyway, yet still people continue to say ” ‘blacks’ are dumber but better at sports”, ” ‘whites’ are smarter but not as athletic”.
Absolute nonsense of course, but racial stereotypes and racial generalizations are among the most easily aquired and oddly persuasive levers for a demagogue and it’s admirers.
Yes it seems that Kenyans etc are well suited for endurance running. Nothing to do with the colour of their skin, but you wouldn’t know it by the way that all ‘blacks’ are lumped together by those who claim that this ‘racial group’ are ‘less intelligent’ and ‘better at sports’.
Is that lazy thinking/generalizing or is it also political propaganda?
All this talk of superior black physicality reminded me of this discussion:
http://www.rastafarispeaks.com/cgi-bin/forum/archive1/config.pl?read=69155
(Hint, don’t be holding a hot coffee when reading)
Actually Shade, I said “So what are we talking about? Strength? - most (if not all) strength records are held by europeans.”
Not that I disagree with your point (I think we are saying the same thing) I just don’t want to be misquoted.
I’m sorry sonnyredd. That quote is from tommy. My mistake.
why the mug shot for Irvin and the standard shot for Romo? Photograpic double standard?
Well, I imagine that it just a show of negativety toward Irvin. He has made mistakes in his life, but it appeares that he is trying to keep his life in order and became saved a few years ago.
It seems foolish to even be arguing about whether or not some races have inherent advantages.
I wonder if some of the above commentators have an athletic background that includes playing with different races.
The NBA being 80% black is not for the lack of white kids not trying.
As for other differences, just look at the diversity among Caucasians. Where are the English weight lifters or gymnasts? As has already been mentioned there is an over representation of weight lifters in eastern Europeans.
Another thing, many of the sports listed that blacks don’t do as well as whites in are probably only because blacks play them in such small numbers. Unfortunately, hoops and football are about the only respected sports in the hood.
I can think of numerous sports that if played by more blacks would probably lead to a higher representation than their population warrants.
Pointing out B. Leftwich throwing to a white receiver or similar examples miss’ the point. There’s always going to be some deviation of the norm, but it’s a deviation. Is there one white corner back in the NFL?
I have no problem with Irvin’s comment. But what a joke that it has gotten no media (mainstream) scrutiny. I learned about it from La Shawn!
We all know what happens to white guy when he says a similar thing in reverse.
Where are the English weight lifters or gymnasts? As has already been mentioned there is an over representation of weight lifters in eastern Europeans.
There is an overrepresentation of westerners in powerlifting.
Another thing, many of the sports listed that blacks don’t do as well as whites in are probably only because blacks play them in such small numbers.
And these are probably played in small numbers due to less or no physical advantage in these sports.
I can think of numerous sports that if played by more blacks would probably lead to a higher representation than their population warrants.
That’s purely speculative.
There are Black Mexicans or Afro-Mexicans. Mexicans of African descent, descendants of Africans slaves brought to Mexico by the Spanish.
http://www.afromexico.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Mexican
http://members.aol.com/fsln/yanga.htm
http://members.aol.com/fsln/gallery.htm
http://www.google.com/search?q=black+mexicans&hl=en&lr=&start=0&sa=N
I mostly agree with Lashawn, but with this time I must take exception, not with her content but with the choice of pictures. Is it not a double standard to picture a black man in prison garb who is normally immaculately dressed in thousand dollar suits and have Romo, a white guy, in a normal NFL photo? You could not find a better picture of Irvin? What message are you subconsciously sending to your audience? What disturbs me even more is that the article has nothing to do with Michael Irvin’s criminal past, yet he is dressed in prison orange. Irvin was known as one of the best dressed NFL players and has continued to dress in a respectable manner after his NFL career. As a black and conservative male, I find this picture choice deeply disturbing. It has the potential to pigeonhole black men in a particular box; a box that I was never and never will be a part of. As for the rest of the article, I understand the point you’re making, and it is a valid one.
Also, by saying that black are genetically superior as athletes is that also saying that blacks are inferior when it comes to their cognitive abilities? There is something not correct with this artice. I believe people, including Lashawn, are playing on their perceptions and even their stereotypes and giving view to a point that has not been proven empirically.
It means nothing if there are slight differences either “cognitively” as you say or physically. In reality, the differences physically between the races are actually quite small just enough to make a difference in a game of inches or race in split seconds.
As for cognitive differences again the differences, if there be any, would be small. So the majority of rocket scientists are European Jews, Caucasians and asians…big deal.
Anybody with average intelligence, good work ethic, and a positive attitude will do well in this country.
In many cases much better than the above rocket scientist who has a gift of IQ and not much else. He may lack wisdom, initiative, charisma all of which help someone succeed in life/profession.
Lastly why are we so sensitive about these things when none of the debated differences in race mean anything to God. These “abilities” are just gifts from Him and are either used to His glory or squandered. Our culture - not God - puts a premium on certain qualities or gifts.
Slip of the tongue cost the white his job. Maybe Michael is too young to remember Jimmy The Greek and Jimmy spoke the truth.
Link
What Irvin said was ridiculous, stupid, and very tacky, and for the record, I do not agree with it. Was it in the same boat as Rush? I say no. I say no because for one, Rush would have never said that about a white quarterback who he thought was overrated and two, he implied that Mcnabb was only hyped because of his skin color. If you watch football, which I think many who agree with Rush dont, you will see that Mcnabb is a good QB and deserves the hype. His skin tone has absolutely nothing to do with the hype he gets because white QBs get the same hype, if not more. Also, not every black QB is hyped up and gets the same media attention as Mcnabb. I dont hear anyone saying this about the many white QB’s who may not be that good, but still get media hype. Now, if Michael Irvin had said that Tony Romo was only hyped up because he was white, then he would have been in the same league as Limbaugh.
Roye,
I believe Irvin’s comments are much closer to Jimmy “The Greek” Snyder’s comments (about blacks being bred for physicality) than Limbaugh’s.
Limbaugh had a right to his opinion that McNabb was over-rated, whther that was true or not, what he was actually fired for was indicting both the NFL and the media for engaging in racial preference. Terrel Owen’s later said much worse about McNabb.
What I’ll say is that Steve McNair, formerly of the Titans, now with the Ravens, has been a better QB than McNabb over a longer period…and McNair is both black and UNDER-RATED.
The reality is that many people are prone to mis-speak when they pontificate about race and ethnicity, but the vast majority (I’d put Irvin, Jimmy “The Greek”, Al Campanis and Limbaugh in that group) are really not motivated by malice, merely prone to ignorance in some aspects of the matter.
There are few, like Michael Richards, who publically engage in actual malice driven racial tirades. That’s much more of a rarity.
JMK, I dont put Limbuagh in that group. He is notorious [deleted by Admin] and his comment just reiterated what people had been saying about him for years. Like I said before, he would have never said that about a white QB that he thought was overrated. He only brought up Mcnabbs’ race because he was black or another non-white race. Why not just say you feel like Mcnabb is overrated and overhyped and base it with football stats or his football perfomance stats? Why throw race in the equation? I can’t call that a misspeak. He knew what he meant and he meant what he said.
Actually,
Mcnair is only been better longer because he has been in the league longer. Mcnabb is just as good, if not better.
Roye, I thought I warned you before about calling people racists. I hate the word not only because it’s a lazy assertion, it tends to stifle the discussion. Don’t use that word on this blog unless you’re criticizing someone else’s use of it. - Admin
One thing I want to make note of regarding Jimmy The Greek is that he was not truly fired for making that comment. He was fired because he was personally disliked by certain prominent individuals on that network and this gave them the EXCUSE to fire him. Many have noted that the individuals who attacked him were overwhelmingly white while several high profile black athletes came to his defense. I recall many of my black peers being somewhat baffled as to why his statement was such a big deal.
>>Like I said before, he would have never said that about a white QB that he thought was overrated. He only brought up Mcnabbs’ race because he was black or another non-white race.>>
You’re missing the point. He said that about McNabb as a commentary on the PC of people _not_ being able to criticize McNabb because he was black. No, he wouldn’t have said anything about race in commenting on a white player, because race isn’t a factor in the criticism. He wants sportscasters to be able to make the same comment about a black player without race being a factor, but that isn’t the case because politically correctness doesn’t “permit” criticism of any black player. Judging by the reaction to his comment, he was right. Criticizing McNabb was considered racist.
Sorry Lashawn, My apologies :).
Suek, do you even watch sport shows like ESPN and other sports shows who critique athletes? I have never seen them treat players different because of their race. The same criticism I have seen and heard commentators use on white players, they use on black players. I have never seen or heard commentators not criticize a player because he was black. Take Michael Vick for instance, he receives tons of criticism and he is black. Kobe Bryant, another black athlete, is always receiving criticism and he is black. Allen Iverson, the same and the list goes on and on. Rush did not expose anything because there was nothing to expose. He tried to inject race into the equation when it was not needed. There was no point in pointing out Mcnabb’s race and trying to correlate that with him being overrated. What PC are you talking about? There is no PC of that nature in professional sports and collegiate sports. Athletes of all races are subject to criticism and will get the same type of criticism if they perform poorly or seen as being overrated.
Matter of fact, I was watching the Atlanta Falcons game on Sunday. I love my Falcons, but the wide receivers who happened to be black, were performing poorly. The commentators were ripping on their poor play. ESPN ripped them on their poor play. The owner ripped them on their poor play. They did not hold their PC tongue and pen because these guys are black.
#63″They did not hold their PC tongue and pen because these guys are black.”
I think what Suek meant (please correct me if I’m wrong) is that it is not considered ‘politically correct’ to criticize ‘blackness’ (whatever that is).
I know that players and athletes are criticized whatever colour they are, at least here in the UK, it’s just not an issue. A player is a player. An athlete is an athlete. They get criticized or appraised on ability, and not colour. If that sounds too ‘PC’ I don’t really care, because I’m glad that they get criticized for their ability, not their ‘race’.
Erratum,
I meant criticized or appraised on ‘performance and attitude’, not ‘ability’.
Apologies.
Roye,
My point was that I believe Limbaugh was fired for indicting both the media and the NFL for “playing favorites,” and not for any racial sensitivity.
The media didn’t like being chastised. He could’ve impugned McNabb all day, if he desired, so long as he didn’t impugn the integrity (such as it is) of the media elites.
I think many applauded Limbaugh’s firing because they wanted to believe it was because his comments about McNabb were judged to be “racially inflammatory.”
I do not believe that’s why he was fired.
I don’t have the stats in front of me, but I believe a good case can be made that Steve McNair is a better QB than McNabb up through this point in their careers. In fact, up until this year, McNair always played on teams surrounded by far less talent than McNabb had. Moreover, there were people comparing McNabb favorably to Brady and Farve at the time Limbaugh made his comments, but there was little to base that comparison on, at that point.
#64, For the most part JohnD, its the same in America as it is in UK when it comes to criticizing a player’s performance. I have never heard and seen someone refuse to criticize someone’s performance because of their skin tone. I have played sports, and attended sporting events my entire life. I have watched everything from the Super Bowl to the Softball World Series. I have never in this day and age, experienced someone being PC because the player was black or non-white. If they are horrible, people say it. If they are good, people say it.
I have to agree with Roye on this, I’ve heard many white analysts criticize black players and black analysts criticize white players and so long as the person can make a case for his analysis (and most can), “it’ll fly,” as they say.
What Limbaugh did was to indict the media and the NFL for undeservedly favoring Donovan McNabb.
At the time the Eagles (McNabb’s team), were a favorite to win the NFC East, so I didn’t see Limbaugh’s point. Besides McNabb had been a pretty good QB for years and even if you were going to make the case that he was “over-rated compared to the hype around him,” there was clearly no evidence of any media or NFL favoritism.
Just my opinion on that.
On an unrelated thought, I sure wish to God that Kieth Oberman haad stuck to sportscasting and commentary, instead of becoming the veritable Bozo of political commentators, he’s become in recent years.
#38 Shade
It comes down to statistics. Relatively few West Africans train as professional athletes. That is a leisure that many in the Third World can ill afford and you aren’t going to become a professional athlete unless you spend a substantial amount of time training for it regardless of how much potential you might have. It takes a lot of free time. Furthermore, very few can afford the sort of nutritional supplementation that Americans and Europeans can afford. Time and money spent on training are definitely factors in all professional athletics. Without time and money, you simply cannot approach your genetic potential.
Is there some possibility that people of mixed ethnicity might be superior athletes? Certainly it is possible. It might be the case that some races have genes which, when combined with those of other races, provide for superior performance. We don’t really know at this point. We do know that some races appear to be stronger performers in certain athletic events than other races.
The 20-25% white ancestry of American blacks does not adequately explain the gap between black Americans and Africans in IQ tests. Malnutrition is the obvious reason for the difference. I strongly believe that one of the best things we can do for Africa is to try and reduce its birth rates (so there are more resources to go around) and help end malnutrition so that Africans can better use their minds to help themselves and their societies.
The IQ of Africans in England is higher than the IQ of native white Englanders.
Someone mentioned riots. I find it funny that there have been riots at majority white colleges over the past few years but “white culture” is never called into question.
I find it interesting that in about 40 years, poverty in the Black community has gone from about 60% to about 25% and education levels have risen but people here mention Blacks can’t “get over” the past.
#70
“I find it interesting that in about 40 years, poverty in the Black community has gone from about 60% to about 25% and education levels have risen but people here mention Blacks can’t “get over†the past.”
I think that’s called ‘irony overload’
Do you have any linkable sources for those statistics please?
Regards,
John
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/histpov/hstpov2.html
2005: 24.9%
1966: 41.8%
1959: 55.1%
Educational attainment for Blacks: 2005
PDF link
2005: High school +: 80%
Some college +: 44.7%
Bachelors +: 17.3
Educational Attainment, 1966
PDF link
(I hope I’m reading this correctly)
High school graduate: 28.5%
4 years college: 2.3%
5 years+: 1.3%
Thanks Dark Star, I’ll look into that. It’s good to see another viewpoint other than “blacks aren’t genetically as clever than whites and are (as a group) helping liberals destroy America”
Incidentally, what does so-called ‘black’ mean in American government statistics? I wonder? And does ‘white’ mean whites of any ethnicity?
It makes me wonder why people use such a broad brush based upon skin color rather than narrower geographical extraction. Or even at all. And how dark does one’s skin have to be to be considered ‘black’, not ‘white?’.
I must admit it makes no sense to me, but for some reason it’s important to political types.
Michael Irvin may not always say things that are appropriate, but he is still a very good and clear announcer.
He must have some white blood in him. :0)
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