As for teachers not being able to remove disruptive students, I might suggest you investigate what your state law says on that issue. When I attended a professional development day for student teachers at my university back in October, one of the elective sessions (that I chose to attend because of the classroom I was in) was abut this very topic. Teachers (at least here in Texas) have rights in regard to removing disruptive students, although administrators don’t really let teachers know about it – this session was the first I learned about it. Now, I am aware, so if I ever have a truly disruptive student once I have my own classroom, I know I can’t be strong-armed into allowing that student to stay in my class. Texas law provides for “alternative education” outside the general education classroom in special facilities, thankfully.

You are absolutely correct that students need to behave appropriately in class in order to learn and that learning takes place long before they set foot in the door. And they should know how to behave and understand what the consequences are long before high school. In the ’60’s, I knew if I misbehaved in class, not only would the teacher discipline me, but my parents would as well. That was not unique to my family.

Somewhere the idea was embraced that parents, and by extension, teachers, should be “friends” with the children in their care, rather than their guides. Giving my child a passing grade because s/he sits in the classroom and doesn’t make waves isn’t doing her/him any favors at all. Neither is allowing the hooligans to take over the class–and I’m not sure what the solution to that is. My school district has been sued because kids were suspended for more than 15 days/school year, so now suspensions are quite rare, furthering restricting what the teachers can do to remove the disruptive element.

That really sounds like a bad situation in your district. I am unaware of our superintendent having “parent meetings”, but school board meetings are every other Monday night at 7pm. As part of my course requirements for my education degree, I was to attend one. They had a portion of the meeting alloted to members of the general public to voice their comments/concerns. Any option like that in your district? Next question is: how does the superintendent get the job? Is it elected, or appointed? If it is a for-hire position, go over the superintendent’s head to the person/people who gave that person the job…

LOL–the person I complained to and who gave me the brush-off WAS the principal. She is no longer a high school principal, BTW. My son’s high school was her second chance. Now she is principal at a grammar (K-6) school.

I’ve lost track of how many Superintendents our district has had over the last 20 years, but we have a new one. One of his first acts was to schedule a parent meeting at 5:30 p.m., a time when many parents would be on their way home to work and unable to attend. I am not hopeful.

As for flexibility, it is true that those at the top have more autonomy, but it is also true that absenteeism is far more rampant in the lower levels according to the Department of Labor.

jan,

Yes I do believe absenteeism is more rampant in the lower levels, because of director/managers like me who say “no” to requests (made 7-9 days apart)to leave early or, come in later on their shifts to take care of personal issues that include school matters. The next time, they do not ask. They just call off from work, and within 2 weeks, call off again. Many of them do not have legal time such as personal or sick time to use. Many have not worked long enough to earn vacation time, and that has to be put in 2 weeks in advance.

I have imposed disciplinary procedures from warnings to terminations for the excessive absenceses. I could really vent about workplace absenteeism, but I won’t.

Thank you for clarifying. While, on an anecdotal level, I am sure that you meet many parents who are working long hours and have difficulty being involved in their child’s education.

Overall,though, families in the top income levels have 2.1 workers, while those in the bottom have 0.6 workers, 84% of which work part time, while 80% of workers in the top work full time.

And, those in the top quintile work extraordinarily long hours. As for flexibility,it is true that those at the top have more autonomy, but it is also true that absenteeism is far more rampant in the lower levels according to the Department of Labor.

I do not think that work is the problem overall with parental involvement in education…

Parents not involved. Is there anyone that does not place this first on the list? Yet our children are individuals unto themselves. Freedom means (among other things) freedom to fail. There are parents who work with children only to see some do better than others. First on the list, but even the best answer is not a magic bullet.

Vouchers. No magic bullet but still a necessary part of any answer in the real world that we live in.

Teachers. There are teachers who want to teach, love to teach even, who are required to be babysitters instead. Why must they be betrayed by the teachers who “just want a job” or more likely “want subjects for indoctrination”

Home schooling. A magic bullet cannot be found that does not include learning in the home. How do we learn to be less selfish. Some try to make up the lack of attention by buying off the kids, but they have to recognize what they are doing.
The biggest piece of the problem with our children’s failure is selfishness on our part.

Failure of opportunity. Yes there are those who want to do better (and do better when given the tools they need) but how do we tell who actually need the chance? We can’t. So while we try to help those who will help themselves, we quit complaining about others and roll up our sleeves ourselves. Carping does not help anyone, figure out how to use constructive criticism.

Love is the answer. What was the question?

The low income/long hours response was from me – Bev, not Miss Ladybug.

Professional people have more freedom with their work schedule than someone working a low wage job. When I became a director of a large child care center with extended hours, I worked 90% of the time from 6:00 am to 8:00pm. I could stop my paperwork just about any time to make a personal call. If I had school issues (hypothetical – I do not have children), I can call the principal and set up a time for an appointment. I could not do this as a classroom child care teacher. Policy forbade any personal phone calls in the classroom, only on a lunch break (when everybody else is on their lunch break). I could stop my paperwork and go meet with the principal. As a child care teacher, I could not leave the classroom. I have been in the position to have to say “no” to a staff person who wanted to leave before her shift was over to meet with a school official concerning her child.

Your right about over time for those who can get it, but the people that I mention had 1 or 2 part-time jobs along their full time child care job where I personally know that overtime was not allowed. They had very little freedom with their work schedule on any of their jobs.

To Miss Ladybug,

My sister did stay the course, and received her Bachelor’s degree in nursing in the early 80’s. She also obtained her Master’s in health administration 2 years ago.

I don’t think I ever said we shouldn’t do vouchers. My point is, that isn’t going to fix it for all students. My question is, what do we try to do for those students? No, it’s not an easy one to answer.

Bev: I guess I hadn’t considered that particular angle re: your sister. I am a product of public education (San Antonio in the mid-70s, El Paso in the mid-80s, and DoDDS in Germany late-70s, early-80s and late-80s). I can’t think of one or two bad teachers I had in all that time. I always got good grades. I went to a state university here in Texas after high school. I graduated with a 3.something GPA. I fully admit that if I had gone to a “high class University”, I wouldn’t have done near as well. I also think that often, freshman classes are harder, to try to “weed out” students who don’t have what it takes. I take it that your sister did tough it out, and is a successful person.

I also keep in mind that different people will have different definitions of “success”. To some, it is landing that coveted spot at that elite university, then landing that elite job with comes with money and presitige. To others, it will be finding a profession one feels is a calling, regardless of the monetary benefits, realizing that money isn’t everything, and that some things – like family – are more important.

I have thought about writing all kinds of things…if only there were more hours in a day!

The fact that we even have to discuss whether or not parents should have a choice of the school their children attend tells more about the state of our educational system than one might think. YES, the idea of compulsory education delivered via the government through taxes was a valiant one at its time, but was long ago corrupted by the teachers’ unions. These groups have a stranglehold on what is happening and almost none of it is pretty. It doesn’t take but a bit of truly looking at things to see that.

As a parent and someone with a degrees/certification in teaching & a professional educator background, let me tell you that even the so-called “best and brightest” aren’t all that swift. I taught at a private university for nearly a decade and have seen a general, downward progression of basic skills in writing, reading comprehension and argumentation skills that is very sad.

Looking at how other countries are able to educate their kids for much less than we spend per pupil, we should be able to do better. When public school districts are spending thousands of dollars more per kid that a good, private school costs in tuition/year, there is something wrong–especially if the public school students are ill-equipped and less educated than their private school counterparts.

I would not allow my daughters to attend the public school in the district in which we live. They attend a small, private elementary school and we work very hard to be able to send them there. If I didn’t have that option, I would homeschool them. When I was a 22-year-old college student, I was indoctrinated with the ‘creaming’ idea posited by the NY teacher’s union president. I didn’t buy it then and I don’t buy it now. If your school deserves to fail, it should; if you aren’t working to fix it, throwing good money after bad is a waste.

Of course some poor people work long hours. I never said otherwise and had a daughter who worked 70 hours per week as a waitress at a Dennys. I would be curious to find out how many hours professionals work versus non professionals. Couple that with the fact that professinals do not get overtime, and I think the results would be surprising.

This is only significant because one often hears that the poor do not have the time to be engaged in their children’s education. The highly successful folks that I know put in far longer hpours than most, but prioritize their time by being superbly organized and disciplined. And, they are passionate about the education of their children and make it a priority.

I have attempted book reviews on my blog. I just did a review of Surrender.

jan,

Some low income people do work longer hours by taking on 2nd and 3rd jobs. When I was a child care teacher, I worked with a couple of people who worked evenings/nights, weekends and holidays on other jobs. One did this on 3 to 4 hours sleep during the week, and was happy that the extra work helped her total yearly income make it to the high 20’s (the year 2000).

Miss Ladybug,

My youngest sister was extremely studious in high school. Her report cards consisted of 1 or 2 Bs and the rest As. Her high school (late 70’s in Phila.) given a choice would not have been one that most people would have chosen for their children. You definitely would not choose it today. She worked hard in chemistry, and received grades of A throughout the report card year. She did well on the SATs She was rewarded with academic scholarships.

My sister went to a high class University, and almost gave it all up the first year. She was lost in her first chemistry class, because her high school chemistry class never covered material that was requisite for college level chemistry.

My sister is very on point when it comes to schooling for her own twin girls. They have always gone to private Christian Schools. Because of their love of the computer, she is considering the possiblility of their going to an online computer tech charter high school.

As far as school choice goes no one should be forced to go to a low performing school for any reason. Some parents along with their teens (as seen on a news program) choose long travel in order to go to better performing schools or schools that offer special extended emphasis in subject matters of personal interest. I am for vouchers.

I don’t think I’d make a particularly good book reviewer

I’m not sure how I stand on school choice