Secession.
What a loaded word. Its soothing sibilant sounds mask a rebellious meaning, almost diverting attention from its unequivocal connotations: separate, disassociate, abandon…
Whenever I hear the word secession, I think of my home state of South Carolina, the first to secede from the Union back in the day. Disenchanted with the federal government over slavery, taxes, free trade, state’s rights — whichever you prefer — South Carolina withdrew from the United States. When the South lost the war and slavery was abolished, old SC had to concede.
Secession will always be associated with race in our minds.
Have you heard the news? Some residents of Fulton County, Georgia, want to secede and become a separate county. As it turns out, the side that wants to split is “predominantly white†and “affluent.â€
A secession of the wealthier part of Fulton County would leave the rest without its significant tax base, and poor black neighborhoods likely would suffer. Secessionists say Fulton County is “too large, and certainly too dysfunctional.†It’s about money. Twenty-nine percent of the population pays 42 percent of its property taxes to run the local government, and if residents get their wish, the country stands to lose a wad of cash.
The people paying the most taxes want true representation in their government. Nothing wrong with that. They’re tired of the huge transfer of wealth, a redistribution of their hard-earned money to a myriad of social programs and services they don’t use or need. They’re fed up with a government unresponsive to their needs. But the debate to secede will be tinged with race, unfortunately.
Some folks are calling the proposal hateful, and as we know, the meaning of the word hate has shifted over the years. It once meant “to dislike intensely or passionately.†Now it means “anything you do that may negatively affect or hurt the feelings of black people or homosexuals or Muslims, although the act itself isn’t illegal, unethical, immoral or intended to negatively affect or hurt the feelings of black people or homosexuals or Muslims.”
Good luck with all that, Fulton County. 
Questions:
1) Should certain Fulton County suburbs be allowed to secede and form a separate county? Why or why not?
2) Predict the proposal’s success. Will it pass or fail?
3) This question is reserved for residents of Georgia. If you get a chance to vote on the measure to secede, will you vote for or against? Explain your answer.
Update: Former Georgia resident Independent Conservative predicts the proposal to secede will succeed.
When I hear news like this I think, “Who is John Galt?”
Comment by Preacher — 01.24.07 @ 8:19 am
One thing worth bearing in mind about this proposed split is that modern-day Fulton County is actually composed of three former counties — and the northern part was originally (drum roll, please) Milton County.
What is now known as “South Fulton” used to be Campbell County, which when it became financially insolvent considered becoming consolidated with Fulton County or with Coweta County (where I live now). Coweta County couldn’t guarantee Campbell County’s political leaders county jobs, while Fulton could, so Fulton won.
Comment by McGehee — 01.24.07 @ 8:32 am
From one perspective, of course they should be allowed to secede. The right of self-determination was a founding principle of America and artificial borders (city and county definitely and probably even state) should not be used to limit the people’s right to band together as they see fit.
From the other perspective, of course they should not be allowed to secede as their societal obligation to take care of the poor folks and the need to avoid the anticipated negative effect this would have on blacks trump any hokey concept such as the right to self-determination.
Guess which way I’m predicting this will turn out?
Comment by steve sturm — 01.24.07 @ 8:42 am
President Bush Faces State of the Union Challenges
In his sixth State of the Union speech, President Bush addresses — for the first time — a Congress
Trackback by Unpartisan.com — 01.24.07 @ 8:51 am
Taxation without representation was one of the cornerstones of our assertion of independence from England in 1776. The founding fathers realized the unfairness of that philosophy, so why is it so offensive in today’s PC environment?
Comment by jim — 01.24.07 @ 9:41 am
The chances of the people winning their battle to secede are next to nothing. Cities have broad powers to annex surrounding areas but the reverse is not true. I don’t know what the laws of the State of Georgia are, but in my state, this proposal wouldn’t even get off the ground.
Cities will go after the tax base that they need to grow or survive. That’s the way this country works. The haves pay for the have nots.
Not saying I support that concept, but that’s the way it is.
Comment by dianne — 01.24.07 @ 9:57 am
1) Should certain Fulton County suburbs be allowed to secede and form a separate county? Why or why not?
Of course they should. The government serves the people, not the other way around. If the citizens of North Fulton don’t want to be part of the same county government as the citizens of Fulton, they should be allowed to.
2) Predict the proposal’s success. Will it pass or fail?
It will likely fail. Because it requires a change to the GA constitution, I doubt that the votes are there.
3) This question is reserved for residents of Georgia. If you get a chance to vote on the measure to secede, will you vote for or against? Explain your answer.
I would vote to allow it. Disclaimer: I am currently a resident of Sandy Springs, which is a municipality that was recently created with much consternantion from Fulton County. We have opted out of much of the County services such as Fire and Police. As a result, our area has gone from having approximately 8 full-time police to over 70 full time police. I have noticed a huge difference. I would not, however, be in the new Milton county (about 400 feet from the border). But, as I said above, people should be able to organize how they would like.
Comment by Doug — 01.24.07 @ 10:08 am
It is interesting to me that the desperate politicians in Fulton County have decided to pull the race card out on this issue. They went for the nuclear weapon here because they know they can’t stand the loss of the revenue and they must do anything to stop it. Last year an area known as Sandy Springs, just North of Atlanta, successfuly left Fulton County and formed their own city and no one mentioned race in that case. These other areas saw what Sandy Springs did and they want to do it as well.
Comment by FJT — 01.24.07 @ 10:09 am
We used to live as far North in Fulton as you could (part of the area that will secede) and were just across the road from Forsyth County (literally - the road that our subdivision connected to was 1/2 in Fulton and 1/2 in Forsyth). We deliberately moved from Fulton to Forsyth precisely because we were tired of subsidizing all of the programs we didn’t benefit from (or want). When we moved we cut our county taxes by over half. Lest you think we moved into some podunk backwater without good schools or services, Forsyth is one of the fastest growing counties in the country. Despite that our tax burden has actually decreased over the years.
In response to La Shawn’s questions:
1) Should certain Fulton County suburbs be allowed to secede and form a separate county? Why or why not?
Yes - if there is a referendum and it is voted on by the residents whom it would affect (i.e., residents of all of Fulton county, not just those trying to leave), then it should be allowed to happen.
2) Predict the proposal’s success. Will it pass or fail?
It will fail, but not by as much as it would have only 10 years ago. Having a Republican governor and majority in the state legislature has been a good thing for Georgia’s development. There are enough old-time Democrats to keep Milton County from happening, however. Add to that the fact that the tax burden on the “richest†folks within the proposed smaller Fulton County will absorb an even larger tax burden than they have now (so they’ll naturally fight to defeat such an effort), and it doesn’t look good for it passing.
3) This question is reserved for residents of Georgia. If you get a chance to vote on the measure to secede, will you vote for or against? Explain your answer.
For - I can’t think of anything more unjust or patently unfair than being taxed for programs and problems (waters/sewer in the city of Atlanta being an example - how exactly was that my concern when I lived 30 miles North of the city and never set foot in the city?). The citizens of Fulton should be allowed to vote on their status. If a referendum isn’t an option, then North Fulton’s representatives should introduce legislation to make it so and the rest of the state can vote.
Comment by Kevin — 01.24.07 @ 10:26 am
Let There Be a Milton County, Georgia Again!
So today La Shawn Barber has a post up about something I know plenty about. Given I just moved from Georgia, after living there for 10 years. (And I’ve still got Georgia on my mind.) The old Fulton/Milton County debate. Basically Fulton Coun…
Trackback by Independent Conservative — 01.24.07 @ 11:06 am
“Secession will always be associated with race in our minds.”
~Actually, the very first concept to enter my mind when I hear that word is “retreat”.
“1) Should certain Fulton County suburbs be allowed to secede and form a separate county? Why or why not?”
~Should they have the right? Yes. However, I could see such a precedent leading to this type of division all over the country, and that would bring with it an onslaught of social blowback. It’s already clear what happens when you segregate living communities according to income. Imagine that on a county-wide level.
Plus, more government is rarely a good thing.
“2) Predict the proposal’s success. Will it pass or fail?”
~Fail this time, succeed soon, probably somewhere else. (This attempt gets the ball rolling if considered seriously in court.”
Comment by Mark La Roi — 01.24.07 @ 11:10 am
@6, I’m betting you’re living somewhere outside of the South. Down here it does not work like it does in other parts of the country. This will pass without a problem.
All the hard work has already been done and we don’t let one Liberal town (Atlanta) rule the roost.
Comment by IndependentConservative — 01.24.07 @ 11:12 am
I think it’s hateful and unethical and more than likely quite legal.
However, I do agree with Mark that if such a precedence is allowed to be set, that there will be huge social ramifications in a country that is increasing being class straitified.
It won’t pass right now and if it ever does, it will be tied up in the court system for decades.
Comment by Tiffany in Houston — 01.24.07 @ 11:36 am
Up here in the NYC metro area, we hear about secession from time to time. Staten Island wants out of NYC because it hated being the dumping ground for all of the City’s trash and got little in the way of resources in return.
New York City politicos call to secede from the state because the city sends far more money to the state and feds than it ever gets back - and its population would be sufficient to put it right in the middle of the pack of Congress (not to mention getting two senators on top of its House delegation).
It’s all a ploy to get more money directed their way.
Comment by lawhawk — 01.24.07 @ 12:01 pm
As a native Atlantan, I’ve been waiting for this particular pot to boil over. Years of a relentless redistribution of wealth from the north to the south, non-existent county services, and a decaying infrastructure that never seems to be addressed have guaranteed this call for separation would come to pass. Fulton County had every advantage, but squandered them through a pattern of mismanagement and corruption.
Last year’s successful vote to make Sandy Springs a city after decades of effort shows that a new Milton County could very well be a reality. Although I live in neighboring Gwinnett County, I would definitely vote for creating a new county.
Comment by Redcard — 01.24.07 @ 12:06 pm
In Illinois, a similar issue is ongoing re: Cook County. Separation into Chicago and the rest.
Never happen.
As in your story, where the money is spent is disproportionate to where it is collected from.
The situation is further hampered by the populations that get to vote on the issue. (Chicago gets to vote on if the ones that want to leave get to stop paying for county support of Chicago benefits)
And there is no rights to any county assets residing in the split-away county group, so the fact that their taxes more than paid for the various county buildings and capital assets in their area, they have to pay for them again to keep them.
Comment by J'hn1 — 01.24.07 @ 12:35 pm
Tiffany says that it is hateful to want to escape from the redistribution of hard earned money, the lack of representation, the corruption, and the mismanagement of a Fulton county. I have to wonder when she thinks it is alright to draw a line in the sand and say that one has had enough of paying a lot and receiving a little due to malfeasance while lacking reasonable representation.
Wise folks have noted from the beginning of time that the seeds of anarchy would be planted when citizens realize that they can vote to take away the property of others to use for themselves. This is one of the reasons that the government should only engage in those efforts that only a government could do, such as roads and national defense.
Comment by jan — 01.24.07 @ 1:01 pm
When I first started reading LaShawn’s post I suspected that the problem was not that the affluent citizens’ taxes were going to programs they did not use, but rather, due to their smaller numbers, they weren’t able to elect people who could administer the money responsibly. Native Atlanean Redcard’s comment bolsters this theory:
“Fulton County had every advantage, but squandered them through a pattern of mismanagement and corruption.”
Some time back our city council made a rule that the utility company couldn’t cut people off for nonpayment of utilities; and further, that they were not to use this as an excuse to raise rates on the rest of us, because the council was doing this to help the poor. In other words, if your intentions are good, simple arithmetic goes out the window. The local paper discovered that some of these city council members had had their utilities cut off for nonpayment several times. The names are prominent names in this area. One knows that they have nice houses and cars. They simply prioritize their money in such a way that they can’t always pay the light bill. These are the same people in charge of spending my tax dollars. I am not filled with confidence that the dollars are spent in any reasonable way, I can tell you. I don’t mind my tax dollars going to help people who need it. I mind them being wasted due to poor decision-making. I’ll bet that’s what’s behind the secession attempt.
Comment by Laura(southernxyl) — 01.24.07 @ 1:07 pm
Jan -
You’d be a lot better off if you didn’t wonder about how my mind works - considering the fact that it is MY mind and the thoughts that come out of it are MY opinion.
Find someone else’s thoughts to parse. Or better yet, how about reading a comment and moving on.
Comment by Tiffany in Houston — 01.24.07 @ 1:13 pm
Tiffany;
You are right, rather than speculating on what you thought, I should simply have asked you why it is hateful to want to escape from the redistribution of hard earned money, the lack of representation, the corruption, and the mismanagement of a Fulton county.
Comment by jan — 01.24.07 @ 1:34 pm
I am a Georgia resident, although I live 3 hours from Fulton county. I will most certainly vote in favor of the secession if it makes it to a statewide referendum. Self-determination is a big part of it, the other is getting appropriate services for your tax dollar.
Comment by Tugboat — 01.24.07 @ 1:43 pm
Recently, at a number of hearings, I noted that the majority of counties stated that up to 70% of their funds go towards the criminal justice system and all that it entails. While it may be fair to say that the average taxpayer benefits from lessening the chance of being murdered in their bed, the reality is that the vast percentage of county money goes to a select population which contributes very little of the funds. meanwhile, those who contribute the most, actually benfit the least.
At some point in time, it is just natural to find this annoying/distressing/appalling/oppressive/burdensome/untenable/unethical/unsustainable, particularly when people’s homes are funding the scenario.
Meanwhile, annexation ensures that local governments can get their hands on net donors who benefit little but pay much.
It is time that someone drew a line in the sand.
Comment by jan — 01.24.07 @ 1:45 pm
Tiffany said; “Or better yet, how about reading a comment and moving on.”
Thus sayeth Tiffany after reading my post and NOT just moving on as she “demands” in a fit of pique.
Comment by jan — 01.24.07 @ 2:15 pm
Er, isn’t this about a part of a county that wants to split from another part? We are not talking here about seceding from the nation. This type of thing goes on all the time where a new township is formed, or redistricting occurs. Really nothing new here except for the “we’re rich and want to hang onto our money” angle.
I personally hope they don’t get away with it because we are supposed to be a community. They want to abandon those less fortunate then them, and I find that morally reprehensible (kind of like throwing the weak overboard). The rich always want to hang onto every dime they have, whether it is by hiding it in foreign banks, using obscure loop-holes or whatever.
But really, this does not rise to the level of the South seceding from the union, does it? It’s not racism, it’s just greed.
Comment by benm — 01.24.07 @ 2:18 pm
In response to your question Jan -
The perception of what the proponents of secession from Fulton WANT is very ugly. Since the metro ATL area is black and the poor there will be overwhelmingly black, it is essentially a rejection of the blacks that live there and more than likely because of lower property values do pay less taxes. To me it looks bad.
But that’s neither here nor there, I suppose. The folks that want to secede would never admit that is part or all of the reason driving the secession talks.
Perhaps the onus is on the Fulton county officials (assuming that if the secession is successful and Milton county is reborn); then perhaps new ways of generating tax revenue should be explored: perhaps a toll road for the part of the interstate that lies within Fulton county, perhaps a surcharge on ticket sales for events held within Fulton county (like museums, operas, plays), attracting new companies with tax breaks etc. I’m no politician so these are just ideas that are coming off the cuff.
I will say that cities like Roswell and Alpharetta which are in northern Fulton County have a good number of middle class blacks living there as well. Perhaps they may be in agreement with their white neighbors. Who knows?
Comment by Tiffany in Houston — 01.24.07 @ 2:23 pm
Well Jan - You responded to my response. So who really was ‘piqued’. And me: demanding??? Never that. I just made a suggestion, that’s all.
Comment by Tiffany in Houston — 01.24.07 @ 2:29 pm
BenM - Interesting line of thought.
Comment by Tiffany in Houston — 01.24.07 @ 3:01 pm
Oh, how evil of these people! Imagine being against taxation without representation. Who ever heard of such a thing.
I suppose those of you who are against this also feel that it was wrong of our forefathers to fight the same thing. Or was that okay because the British weren’t the right minority group to get away with such things?
Comment by Stacey — 01.24.07 @ 3:27 pm
Much as the various races seem to wish to have people who look like them represent them in government and many Blacks refuse to give blood or donate organs because they are afraid that “whites” will receive them, I don’t think that our taxes should only go to those of our own race and economic class.
There is way too much concern over the idea of someone getting something that we are not. Even if we don’t really need or want it. Those whites are well off enough to cough up the taxes. Do they have good schools and safe streets?
I have to pay $298.00 in property taxes per year to support a hospital in the city in which I live. I never use this hospital and yet I was forced by a democratic vote to pay for it. Personally I think I should be able to use the hospital services for free, but that will never happen. Mostly I get annoyed when I receive the bill and then I forget about it.
If the whites are getting decent service in their area, then they have nothing to complain about. They should be thankful they don’t need all the social services the Blacks do. Would they change places with them? Not in a million years.
Here at work the Black payroll clerk will give some of the Blacks their checks early. I have a white co-worker that gets really mad about this as we will see the Blacks with their checks and when we ask for them they tell us they are not ready yet. I always tell my co-worker that our Black co-workers need those checks, as often their rent is probably late or they gave all their money to their baby-daddies. Then I asked him if he would trade lives with the Blacks just to get his check early. He had to agree he would not.
On the other hand I don’t believe that the social service agencies are very successful, but that is another matter. The agencies should definitely be accountable to the tax payers. All in all I think churches are better at raising up the underclass and I’d just as soon give them my tax dollars.
I realize my race-related posts may invite gratuitous remarks, but let’s skip the personal anecdotes about “baby-daddies.” It’s a touchy subject, even if true. Let’s try to stay on point: the secession of part of Fulton County into a separate county. - Admin
Comment by Miss Carnivorous — 01.24.07 @ 3:28 pm
benm says “They want to abandon those less fortunate then them, and I find that morally reprehensible..”
How about this: They want to forcible take the product of others labor and give them nothing in return, and *I* find THAT morally reprehensible.
“The rich always want to hang onto every dime they have..”
As opposed to what? What the poor want to do with their dimes?? Is is greed on the part of the poor when they don’t want their money forcible taken away and (as often is the case) wasted? C’mon, that is nonsense.
Your assumption that the ‘rich’ don’t want to help those less fortunate than them is faulty, given the level of charity in this country.
Not wanting your money to be legally stolen and used in manner that you disagree with does not equate to ‘throwing the weak overboard’.
Comment by Stacey — 01.24.07 @ 3:39 pm
Tiffany;
The perception may be ugly but the reality may not be so ugly.
Further, I would venture to say that the widespread perception of corruption and mismanagement play a large role in the disgruntled attitude of folks. To me, it is so understandable that folks would be frustrated with having their paychecks decimated while seeing little good come of it.
People want to see results and want to know that their money is well used. And, they want to know that they are not at the mercy of the wants of the majority while they themselves have little representation.
What is wrong with that?
Comment by jan — 01.24.07 @ 3:40 pm
BenM;
I would say that this is less about greed than it is about accountability.
Comment by jan — 01.24.07 @ 3:41 pm
LSB - I’m sorry and I know this is your blog, your house, your rules, your way but how is talk like this constructive or productive to the discussion:
From Miss Carnivorous:
Here at work the Black payroll clerk will give some of the Blacks their checks early. I have a white co-worker that gets really mad about this as we will see the Blacks with their checks and when we ask for them they tell us they are not ready yet. I always tell my co-worker that our Black co-workers need those checks, as often their rent is probably late or they gave all their money to their baby-daddies.
WTF??????? Statements like that make my blood boil and confirm why sometimes talking to white people is pointless.
I didn’t see that. I haven’t been following the discussion today. Busy. Thanks for pointing it out. - Admin
Comment by Tiffany in Houston — 01.24.07 @ 3:42 pm
And the bottom line is…if South Fulton were White, everybody crying on their behalf would not be saying a word.
Comment by IndependentConservative — 01.24.07 @ 3:43 pm
This is going down the spinning drain fast, but…
Talk about hypocrisy. While complaining about someone talking about Blacks and their “baby daddy”, they say:
Oh if a White person would say that in a comment and replace the word “white” with “Black”…
The post exposes a double standard, given if South Fulton were White mouths would be shut. And then while complaining about a comment from a White person, the intellectual capacity of Whites in general is challenged in their own comment.
I wake up to a new day, but the same show is on all the time…
Comment by IndependentConservative — 01.24.07 @ 4:01 pm
I come from a (formerly) very nice, comfortable, small middle to upper middle class neighborhood in New Orleans that pays an obscenely high percentage of the taxes in New Orleans. In this post-Katrina world, where criminals like “Dollar Bill” Jefferson and incompetents like Ray Nagin get re-elected in New Orleans, there has been some talk within the neighborhood about removing itself from New Orleans. I personally think it’s a bad idea, especially when about 95% of the neighborhood went under 2-15 feet of water and recovery is painfully slow. I wish the residents in Fulton Co. the best of luck, and if they do succeed, I’d like to see how well they do. It can be difficult, even having a great tax base, if you don’t have the businesses that the whole area has, to make it through a fiscal year intact.
Comment by Estella — 01.24.07 @ 4:27 pm
Independent Conservative -
Thanks for calling me a hypocrite. Next time, just use my name and be real with yours.
I was simply pointing out that the remark was counterproductive and shuts down dialogue…which it does. And it is frustrating and sometimes seems pointless. But it isn’t which is why I keep coming back and commenting.
Nowhere in my complaint was any comment about white people’s intelligence at all. Stop looking for something that isn’t there.
Comment by Tiffany in Houston — 01.24.07 @ 4:40 pm
1. Yes, the area should be allowed to reform Milton County.
2. Yes, I think it will pass.
3. I live in Cobb County, just outside of Fulton (soon to be Milton) County. My taxes are 1/2 of what my Fulton County pays. My house is protected by a professional Fire Dept not the volunteer Fire Dept in Roswell, which lowers my homeowners insurance rates, plus Cobb
Schools are much better than their Fulton counterparts.
I will vote for it.
Comment by Marvin — 01.24.07 @ 4:40 pm
Re 33: Tiffany said; “WTF??????? Statements like that make my blood boil and confirm why sometimes talking to white people is pointless.”
So, why would black employees get their checks early and why would it be unreasonable for folks to posit a reason after they have been told that the checks are not ready?
By the way, anyone could posit a statement like that which make one’s blood boil from one person and extrapolate it to represent the “collective.” That is called bigotry.
Comment by jan — 01.24.07 @ 4:42 pm
You just can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Post # 29 is a perfect example of that. Here you have the white (like Tiffany, I’m assuming) person who agrees with black people that they are owed special priviledges. I would assume that this person is pro-affirmative action also.
And you are SURPRISED that she makes a statement that assumes typical sterotypes about black people are correct???
Sorry, but I just don’t understand how you think that those people who assume black people need special treatment have a good opinion of black people in general.
Comment by Stacey — 01.24.07 @ 4:49 pm
In response to Jan’s comment:
Further, I would venture to say that the widespread perception of corruption and mismanagement play a large role in the disgruntled attitude of folks. To me, it is so understandable that folks would be frustrated with having their paychecks decimated while seeing little good come of it.
People want to see results and want to know that their money is well used. And, they want to know that they are not at the mercy of the wants of the majority while they themselves have little representation.
I can certainly understand what you are saying. But the fact is, I can’t determine where my taxes go and to whom they support. I’m not a libertarian type who might believe that if you don’t have kids you shouldn’t have to pay school taxes. I don’t have kids and I gladly pay taxes because I know that’s a community benefit.
If they don’t want to pay taxes to support the full community like it or not then they also shouldn’t be able to benefit from the services that may be provided. But then do you really want to start folks that they can’t use a park for their kids to play in because their taxes don’t support it.
I’m probably not articulating this as well as I want to, but I hope you can follow what I’m trying to say.
Comment by Tiffany in Houston — 01.24.07 @ 4:51 pm
To clarify: I don’t agree with the fact some black workers were getting their checks early. That’s not fair at all.
My blood was boiling at the obviously bigoted statement that followed it.
Comment by Tiffany in Houston — 01.24.07 @ 4:55 pm
So Tiffany, is it sometimes pointless to talk to Black people, or Asian people or Hawaiian people? If it’s pointless to sometimes talk to White people, what about everyone else? And if it’s sometimes pointless to talk to everyone else why mention just White people?
You cited bigotry and need to look in the mirror.
Comment by IndependentConservative — 01.24.07 @ 5:10 pm
Independent Conservative -
As long as you are standing right next to me, looking in that big shiny mirror as well, I’d be glad to do so.
Comment by Tiffany in Houston — 01.24.07 @ 5:16 pm
As a life-long Atlanta resident, I would vote to allow Milton to split from Fulton County. If you look at the map you can see how the county is already divided between North and South by the City of Atlanta. It makes it very hard to have well-run county services. And there have been numerous issues with how the county has been run that have nothing to do with race.
Something else to note, the Fulton County Commission Chairman race was very ugly this year. Atlanta Mayor Shirley Franklin, Andrew Young and Congressman John Lewis released an attack ad against a white candidate saying essentially that if the white candidate was elected it would be a return to Jim Crow days, etc…. It was extremely disappointing for Mayor Franklin to stoop to those kind of politics and accusing all the white residents of racism can’t help but alienate the northern half of the county.
Comment by Pat — 01.24.07 @ 5:31 pm
Dodge.
Comment by IndependentConservative — 01.24.07 @ 5:34 pm
Tiffany;
I gather that the folks in Fulham county are bothered by a lot more than just than the lack of services. When there is a perception of rampant corruption and a lack of efficacy, that takes it to a whole new level. Most folks that I have ever met in my life are on board with support of a community. But surely one can accept that there is something wrong when a small percentage of the population produces the majority of the cash while receiving little benefit relative to the burden it places on their lives.
Comment by jan — 01.24.07 @ 5:34 pm
Pat hit that ball so hard it’s still flying!!!
Comment by IndependentConservative — 01.24.07 @ 5:36 pm
I was listening to the radio earlier, and I heard that if this group is successful, the new county would still be the 5th most populous county in the state. As it stands now, it’s equivalent to six states (although they didn’t say which six). Seems to me the county, as it is now, is too unwieldly to be able to function properly.
Comment by Miss Ladybug — 01.24.07 @ 5:49 pm
Jan said: But surely one can accept that there is something wrong when a small percentage of the population produces the majority of the cash while receiving little benefit relative to the burden it places on their lives.
I can accept that. But it does make me very uneasy to see that we as a nation are becoming more and more polarized and a nation of have and have nots, where it is becoming more and more difficult for a have not (regardless of race) to have anything.
Comment by Tiffany in Houston — 01.24.07 @ 5:58 pm
Is it the role of government to enforce economic parity?
Comment by IndependentConservative — 01.24.07 @ 6:19 pm
I think that all areas who wish to form their own county have a right to TRY, but whether it’s right or wrong, or even ends up happening–it all depends on the situation. I can understand people who see themselves sending money to a dysfunctional govt. that can’t solve problems and believe they could do better on their own. That makes sense.
Comment by Michele — 01.24.07 @ 6:25 pm
Tiffany;
I don’t think that it is that difficult for a have not to have something if that have not gets an education and is married. Herein lies the conundrum. I spent decades helping those who had no choice. I do NOT want to spend my latter years subsidizing those who do.
If we could make a better selection of those who truly needed help, along with a more efficient way of helping them, I would be thrilled to funnel my tax dollars towards that end. Yet, I have never seen anything which remotely convinces me. Having grown up in poverty, I need a lot of convincing.
The young man that cuts my grass cuts ten yeards a day on the weekend and almost that during the week. He is rather extraordinary and I would venture to say that Ronnell will be one of the richest men in America some day. In a word, he rocks! Anyway, Ronnel makes between $450 a day and $600. He told me that he is baffled by those who say that they cannot get ahead here. Oh, did I tell you that Ronnell is 16 years old, the son of a heroin addict and a missing father, and accepts no welfare?
The officials in Fulton county should either get their collective &*%es together and use the taxpayers money for more that their own narrow special interests or deal with the results of their own corruption and inefficiency.
Comment by jan — 01.24.07 @ 6:34 pm
Actually you are all wrong. I know the persons involved personally and they do tend to give their hard earned money to the no good men in their lives. I grew up in East Oakland California on welfare myself. It makes me very angry when middle class tell me I am ignorant about inner city Blacks.
Believe me I know a lot about Blacks in the inner city. Baby daddy is a term common among the people I know and love. I don’t happen to agree with the habit many of my friends have of giving money to men I wouldn’t buy a Big Mac for. I think whites are more ruthless than many Blacks about giving money to other family members. Sometimes I think Blacks are the most generous people on earth when it comes to their families. Other times I find this behavior dangerously self destructive.
This is a generalization based on many years of experience in the inner city. The inner city is where Blacks are having the most trouble getting a piece of the American dream. Many of my friends and co-workers are quite decently employed but not very well off in the financial dept. Almost without exception none of the fathers of their kids are paying one penny for child support. Many of them are having trouble making ends meet and do need their checks as soon as possible. No joke. It’s not like they teach you how to manage finances in inner city schools.
Comment by Miss Carnivorous — 01.24.07 @ 6:50 pm
1) Should certain Fulton County suburbs be allowed to secede and form a separate county? Why or why not?
Yes. Ever hear of the Berlin Wall, folks? Talk about a side-by-side demonstration of freedom vs. collectivism!
2) Predict the proposal’s success. Will it pass or fail?
Probably it will fail, but not for the reasons most people expect. I grew up in the “Solid South” (Texas, not Georgia), and I recall encountering widespread voter fraud by Democrats when they were in charge. It took a massive Republican surge at the polls to dislodge Democrats from power in the state government. I will bet that enough hard-core Democrats remain in Fulton County to tip a close race back their way.
Even if it passes I predict our imperial judiciary will block it. They don’t have to have a reason - other than the fact that they don’t like it.
Comment by Mwalimu Daudi — 01.24.07 @ 7:24 pm
Now I’ll chime in with my answers.
1) Should certain Fulton County suburbs be allowed to secede and form a separate county? Why or why not?
Yes. In principle I’m always in favor of smaller government entities rather than larger ones — and the patchwork origin of modern-day Fulton County strikes me as deserving of reversal.
2) Predict the proposal’s success. Will it pass or fail?
First thought, I think its chances are pretty slim. People here will approve constitutional amendments for what they consider important issues, but I’m not sure most Georgia voters consider this worth bothering them with. That could change depending on the way the issue is discussed during the campaign. If it’s discussed. The AJC could tilt a lot of votes with its opinion, though not necessarily the way it wants to. Here in Coweta County an AJC endorsement is the kiss of death.
3) This question is reserved for residents of Georgia. If you get a chance to vote on the measure to secede, will you vote for or against? Explain your answer.
As implied in my answer to #1, I’d vote Yes. Also, I think it’s ridiculous that the number of counties is specified in the state constitution; I would hope the amendment eliminates that.
Comment by McGehee — 01.24.07 @ 10:30 pm
Let me get this straight. Milton used to be separate, and poor, sought and gained approval to join Fulton Co. Now Milton is rich, and is seeking secession and no one here has a problem with that. Interesting!
Comment by Benjamin — 01.25.07 @ 6:28 am
Seems like Fulton county Ga.and the congressional black caucus have a couple of things in common.
Comment by r barsz — 01.25.07 @ 6:51 am
I’m very concerned, this is a slippery slop, I don’t fully understand the situation. What does this mean regarding schools,jobs, taxes, community ammenties??? I’m really confused
Comment by Bella — 01.25.07 @ 8:57 am
Let me get this straight. Milton used to be separate, and poor, sought and gained approval to join Fulton Co.
Yes — 70-odd years ago.
Now Milton is rich, and is seeking secession and no one here has a problem with that.
Perhaps you might explain why we should.
Comment by McGehee — 01.25.07 @ 9:00 am
This is about governmental fiscal responsibility, home rule, and basic taxpayer rights. Seems like race is just a convenient strawman-like diversion.
Comment by redbeard — 01.25.07 @ 9:18 am
You are correct Redbeard. This is not about race. It’s about class and corrupt piss poor southern governments.
Comment by Ghosty — 01.25.07 @ 4:02 pm
I just google “Fulton County corruption” and was gobsmacked. The only thing hateful about this case is the extraordinary greed and corruption of those who wilfully stole the taxpayers blind in the name of the poor, the ongoing saga of America.
Comment by jan — 01.26.07 @ 9:05 pm
Why is Fulton County so poorly run and what elements of commonality does it possess relative to other corrupted government entities?
Comment by jan — 01.27.07 @ 11:51 am
I’d venture to guess one major factor, Jan. Similarly to other corrupt governments around the world (like a dictatorship, though for different reasons and definitely not as extreme), urban governments tend to have a definite lack of accountability.
They do NOT have to worry about their jobs or about being held accountable for results. This is one bad effect of the block-voting pattern that blacks tend to engage in. You MUST be a Democrat to be elected in these areas, and it helps a LOT to be a BLACK Democrat.
This is not meant to imply that merely because one is black or a Democrat that that will lead to incompetency or corruption. I’m just saying that the political situation lends itself to a lack of accountability, and that leads to corruption.
I think another factor is probably the extreme alienation we are told many low-income inner city blacks feel towards our society at large. I think this explains to some degree why someone like Marion Barry or kept getting elected. My guess is the first consideration is to vote for someone that can relate to you, and that this outweighs any other consideration.
Comment by Stacey — 01.27.07 @ 3:53 pm
Stacey;
Interesting analysis! The sad thing is that those who do not hold their elected officials accountable are the ones who pay the biggest price.
Comment by jan — 01.27.07 @ 6:57 pm
I didn’t articulate it very well, but I guess you get my point. I just think that these guys feel so secure in office because they know outside opposition (republican) is no threat. Opposition from the inside (other democrats) can be dealt with by a) the power of incumbency and b) bringing them aboard & sharing the benefits of your own corrupt administration. The only ones who can truly be a threat are easily bought off with govt. contracts, positions in the govt itself and so on.
The whole situation lends itself to a remarkable lack of accountability that you don’t usually see in a democracy. And that leads to an unusual level of power. And we all know the old saying about power and corruption.
Comment by Stacey — 01.27.07 @ 7:36 pm
Actually, you articulated it quite well.
Comment by jan — 01.27.07 @ 8:42 pm
Disclaimer: I am a Black male, who formerly lived in Atlanta, Fulton and Dekalb County, but now live in Douglas County.
I agree with the secession to form Milton County, and here is why:
1. Counties with large populations of poor Blacks are able to get elected by playing the race card, and have little accountability to those who actually generate tax revenue. Just look at the racially charged election for Fulton County commissioner that occured last November
2. While people may try to depict this issue as white people who are racist and want to see poor Blacks suffer, that is disingenuious. I think peple get tired of paying thousands of dollars per year to a system, that makes a concerted effort to ignore their concerns, while also laying a “you’re a racist” guilt trip. This is an issue that is about lack of accountability.
3. I think people also feel as if “Since you are all about YOUR people and YOUR community” (referring to Black leaders and elected officials lecturing other communities), why don’t YOU and NOT ME, take care of YOUR people. If a person called me racist, but always had their hand out for me to give them cash, I would get ticked too.
4. This move to secede was really brought to a head in the last election. Shirley Franklin, John Lewis, and Andrew Young made an ad stating that if the white Republican was elected, things would be worse than the March to Selma in when the police brutalized the civil rights workers. The Black Democratic candidate won.
5. I would also put forth that Black elected officials who represent large numbers of poor minorites have the luxury of completely mismanaging the office and covering up the duplicity, if they can tax other, more affluent constituents, especially if the affluent residents are white. Nothing like using class warfare and the race card to get in power, and then act as if the more affluent residents are the ones with the problem as their taxes get raised.
I will never live in a municipality that has an all-Black or a majority Black representative council. Using Atlanta as the example, the politics will be long on theatrics, and short on effective government.
Comment by Chris G — 01.27.07 @ 11:16 pm
Chris G.;
You and Stacey have articulated the essential “lack of accountability” that promotes the kind of corruption and inefficiency that is endemic in Fulton County. Previously, I couldn’t quite get a solid handle on the source of the problem while recognizing that it existed. I simply knew that it must be enormously frustrating to those Fulton county citizens (and, indeed, all citizens) who feel unrepresented while footing the bills and receiving little in return except the knowledge that their hard earned money was going down the black hole of corruption and inefficiency. Adding to their frustration is the knowledge that they are being labeled hateful and racist for their very understandable frustrations.
I appreciate the clarification from both of you and I feel that you have nailed the essence of the problem.
Comment by jan — 01.28.07 @ 4:08 pm
A small little section of southeast KS wanted to seceded for similar reasons. But it was hard to make it about race when a white section of the state wanted to secede from a predominantly white state. But it was about wealth…and property taxes. They wanted their hard earned money (which was a tad bitt more on average than most Kansans had to boast of)to stay in there school system to serve their children.
So they wanted to be their own little state.
Comment by Dana — 01.28.07 @ 11:51 pm
I think this is hogwash. Affluent whites, affluent blacks, poor whites, and poor blacks live all over Fulton County.
Recently, the West St. expansion has brought a lot of money to the downtown area with high price condos and so forth. So there’s been plenty of gentrification that has happened to poor areas—thus many poor people have been forced out.
So where is this split going to happen especially when you consider that major companies like CNN dominate the downtown area? In many aspects, Atlanta is becoming like New York. There are pockets are poor areas and there are pockets of rich areas.
For example, Cascades area has affluent blacks and poor blacks. Also, of course you have your mostly white affluent areas…
So who knows where this is going to go…
Comment by Michael — 01.29.07 @ 8:45 pm
There is more here than is being said.
I am middle class, close to upper middle class by some standards, and I don’t need many government services except for police, fire, and roads. I advocate for education but when “DS 2.0″ is ready, he will go to private school. I advocate for other kids more so than mine.
My question is, what representation are they lacking?
Is it a matter of them being represented by Dems and they want Repub representation?
No matter who is representing them, there will always be lack of accountability in government.
Something doesn’t add up here.
Comment by DarkStar — 01.29.07 @ 11:25 pm