Thursday, February 8: Ward Connerly responds to commenters’ accusations of hypocrisy.
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Note: How could I have forgotten to link to Heather Mac Donald’s must-read article, “Elites to Anti-Affirmative-Action Voters: Drop Dead”? She writes:
After Prop. 209’s passage, UC Berkeley, like the rest of the UC system, “went through a depression figuring out what to do,†says Robert Laird, Berkeley’s pro-preferences admissions director from 1993 to 1999. The system’s despair was understandable. It had relied on wildly unequal double standards to achieve its smattering of “underrepresented minorities,†especially at Berkeley and UCLA, the most competitive campuses. The median SAT score of blacks and Hispanics in Berkeley’s liberal arts programs was 250 points lower (on a 1,600-point scale) than that of whites and Asians. This test-score gap was hard to miss in the classroom. Renowned Berkeley philosophy professor John Searle, who judges affirmative action “a disaster,†recounts that “they admitted people who could barely read.â€
The downward trajectory of those students was inevitable, Searle says. “You’d be delighted to find that your introductory philosophy class looked like the United Nations, but that salt-and-pepper effect was lost after six to eight weeks,†he recalls. “There was a huge dropout rate of affirmative-action admits in my classes by mid-terms. No one had taught them the need to go to class. So we started introducing BS majors, in an effort to make the university ready for them, rather than making them ready for the university.†Searle recalls a black studies class before his that was “as segregated as Mississippi in the 1950s.†One day, Searle recounts, the professor had written on the blackboard that a particular tribe in Africa “wore colorful clothing.â€
Read it all, and applaud measures like Proposition 209 and Proposal 2.
Roger Clegg of the Center for Equal Opportunity put in a freedom of information request and found out what’s really going on at the government-supported University of Michigan.
Yes! Ban racial profiling…including racial profiling in government hiring and admissions. (Hat tip: Discriminations)
*** Scroll down for updates***
It’s been a long time since one of my race preferences posts generated 100+ comments.
Comments tend to build on posts where commenters who care about the issue drill down into certain aspects of the issue. That happened on a recent post about the Supreme Court’s decision not to reverse the 6th Circuit’s order to Michigan state universities to begin implementing Proposal 2 without delay. Something about the post struck a chord, and the “debate” kept going.
I’m pleased to see so many comments, of course. But even if my posts produced zero, plenty of readers who’ve never and likely will never comment benefit from reading a different and much-needed perspective. I once wrote that if this blog received no or much fewer comments, I’d still be here, updating and occupying my corner of the blogosphere. As long as I’m expressing myself well and sharing what I believe are important ideas, I’m satisfied. 
Today I want to cover the race preferences issue from a different perspective. First, read “The Michigan Win,” by Ward Connerly, the man behind three state campaigns that successfully banned race preferences in government hiring and admissions. He’s confident that ballot initiatives against preferences are the way to go, which is why preference proponents, like most liberals, prefer the courts. Lowered-standards policies are deeply entrenched in America, so opponents need to be prepared for a long fight.
Check out Connerly’s semi-autobiographical book, Creating Equal: My Fight Against Race Preferences. (read my review)
What struck me in Connerly’s article was this statement (emphasis added): “It appears that ‘white guilt,’ as Shelby Steele describes the phenomenon, has just about run its course with respect to the people’s tolerance for race preferences.”
You may know that Shelby Steele, one of those “black conservatives,” wrote a book titled, White Guilt: How Blacks and Whites Together Destroyed the Promise of the Civil Rights Era. Steele argues that blacks, who once embraced personal responsibility and independence, now prefer to accept government handouts and to use skin color for gain and guilt. Whites, feeling guilty about past discrimination and subjugation of blacks, excuse certain destructive behaviors and encourage the handout mentality. It offends me beyond words that some whites may judge me by lower standards. But that’s the culture we live in, and policies like race preferences are directly to blame. Not only do some (few? many?) whites judge blacks by lower standards, blacks judge themselves by lower standards.
It’s kind of sick, really. 
The discussions about race on this blog are unusual. People usually don’t talk about policies like “affirmative action” in mixed company. If they don’t have anything good to say about it, most don’t say anything at all, especially if blacks are nearby. They prefer the distance of an online forum, and I’m happy to provide it. Today I’d like to do something different. Rather than arguing for or against race preferences, I’d like to hear from white readers who may have a tinge of “white guilt.”
I have to do a little segregating here, so don’t hold it against me.
Questions for white readers (Be honest!):
1) What have you done or thought lately that appears to be based on white guilt?
2) If you once suffered from white guilt but now you’re over it, how/why did you get over it?
Questions for black readers (Be honest!):
1) Do you loath government-mandated, lowered-standards policies like race preferences as much as I do?
2) If not, why do you believe race preferences are necessary in America?
Update: In response to the first set of questions, Eugene Levitzky wrote:
(1) One thing I did recently that was based on white guilt was to allow for a black employee to get away with behavior I did not allow others to get away with. That is, I did not comment on his behavior and did not speak to him as I do to others about ethics in the workplace or did not talk to him about how his behavior affected others on the job. Being Christian, I had a tremendous call to say something to him, to set him straight. But 20 plus years of my former liberalism kicked in and I made excuses for his behavior.
(2) I am mostly over any white guilt I may have had (except for the above mentioned case) and the reason for this is Christ. What kind of man am I if I treat someone differently because of their race? I no longer cringe at the way I often abased myself in certain social situations and at the way I made “excuses†for bad behavior or criminal behavior because of someone’s skin color. I feel it is a sin to give the finger to someone in traffic, but I still do it when my anger boils over. But I feel it is an even greater sin to not give the finger to someone because that someone is black. Why, even in my anger, would I differentiate? I know I’m giving a silly example but I’ve often thought about this — why did I treat someone differently, whether I was being kind or being cruel? Because I was a “racialist.†I was reducing a man’s character to his race. I was hamstringing my relations with people by putting blacks on a pedestal and self-censoring my speech in fear of letting what would be an offensive word or two slip and hurt someone’s feelings.
Resources:
- Repeating History - brief background on affirmative action
- White Guilt and the Western Past
- Racism — fact or fiction?
What an interesting question! I certainly DID suffer from white guilt, and some of it was appropriate. I have some internalized racism from my culture and sinful nature, and it is a sin. Now it only sometimes pops up in my head as a racist thought, judging someone based on their race. I roll my eyes at myself, ask God’s forgiveness, and move on.
The guilt for me was part of a stage I went through as I began to understand the history of oppression against blacks in my country. Now my family has a long history of being dirt farmers, no slave owners cause they were too poor. My grandfather sold veggies from a truck in the black community of central Louisiana, and was known for charging whites and blacks the same price. Unusual in his day.
But my guilt came from how blacks were hurt and held back by people who look like me, many of them calling themselves Christians. So I repented and asked God to change me and He is. I got over the guilt when I realized that I was no longer part of the problem, that my heart was changed. Understanding the strength and importance of personal responsibility helped, as did figuring out that there were people who had a job of calling everything racist.
I guess my personal growth and edification left me with a clearer mind to recognize what is racist and what is not. For the record, any racism is wrong and a sin, but there is not nearly so much of it now as there was. And that is a good thing.
Trey
Comment by Trey — 01.30.07 @ 10:06 am
“…judge [you] by lower standards…” LaShawn, heck, if I lived closer to you I’d be courting you. You are magnificent.
Comment by Mark Folkestad — 01.30.07 @ 10:08 am
The best analogy I can draw to my “race guilt” is a breastfeeding woman. I don’t feel shame for happening to glance over at her as much as I would anyone else, but I make a active effort to avoid it because I know that if I look in passing it could be mistaken for staring or my intent could be misconstrued. I’m simply trying to avoid problems. Do I feel like I owe every black man, woman, and child for slavery? Not at all. Do I worry that I will be held responsible for racism simply for not treating someone special? Absolutely. Duke is proof of this fact. The two things that you can be accused of without a shred of evidence and still be “guilty” of is Rape and Racism.
My father was accused of being racist. He’s not in the least a racist, but he bumped into a young black man in line at the movies, my father turned and gave a quick, “sorry about that.” My dad is quick to be less then charming but he will be very friendly in civil company. The guy responded with a “F***ing Cracker pushing me cause I’m a dumb n*****” Both my dad and I were aghast. Being the charming guy he is my father said “If I give you 40 acres and a mule will you drop the victim act?” Now I was proud, not because my dad went to his usual charm, but that he made a cotent comment that (for once) I agreed with. The young man looked at us and asked my dad if he called him a donkey. I’m tired of an assumption of guilt in every instance, and I want to see it END
Comment by John — 01.30.07 @ 10:22 am
1) What have you done or thought lately that appears to be based on white guilt?
Really nothing that I can think of. I’ve never suffered from white guilt, I’ve always believed that everyone should be treated equally, regardless of the past. I’ve never felt responsible for the few ancestors that had slaves 350 years ago - I’m not them. There have been all kinds of injustices throughout history, you can’t take on all of those burdens for all people. My Irish and Italian relatives were terribly discriminated against, that’s just how things were then. I certainly don’t go looking for handouts because of it. They dealt with it by working hard and eventually society overcame the discrimination. Once the discrimitory laws are repealed, it just takes time.
BTW, my brother-in-law is black and my niece and nephews are mixed. They are a welcome part of our family just like the rest and the kids certainly don’t get a pass on bad behavior or expected behavior because of any guilt.
2) If you once suffered from white guilt but now you’re over it, how/why did you get over it?
Never suffered from it.
Comment by Lorraine — 01.30.07 @ 10:25 am
Black.
I loathed as much as you do. I think for me we should be building people up, I don’t believe in spoon-feeding people but I also believe that the government should be there to assist people to recover. If you’re a 18 years old girl who got pregnant, no I don’t think you should be getting the easy way of collecting welfare checks every month. Having programs where a young girl is only supported for a limited number of time with assitance in developing some skills in training school and getting her help starting a career and finding a job is more beneficial in the long term.
I think schools should be equally funded. Schools do not get the same funding, and I know it has to do with the tax system of the respective, county, state ect… But i believe a government should invest in education and providing up to date education to every kid in American equally. It’s a shame that one of the greatest country in the world is really doing bad in the ranking
Again, I’ve lived in Europe. I also think universities should be free. In France, for instance most universities including the prestigious ones are free. I know many people will disagree with me. But I think it’s the goverment’s responsiblity to invest in the future generations. On the other hand, there are tons of opportunities to go to college free so people should take them, grants, loans, financial aids ect… When there’s a will, there’s a way
During the cold war, Eastern Europe was pushing their citizens to go into fields of science and engineering to stay the best. A government especially the American government should do the same, push for excellence and high standards and provide everyone the same chance by having schools all across the country equally funded with the same resources, materials to succeed. It’s a shame that poorer countries are doing better in terms of education and that the American education system has gone down across the board regardless of race, class, status ect…
I don’t think race preferences is necessary in America, however, we can’t be color blind. Having grown up in Europe, I have a more socialist (NOT COMMUNIST)BUT SOCIALIST outlook. I think that all government based programs are good, but only if everyone is protected and included, because then there’s really no division or preferrential treatment given to one group over another. The thing is we wouldn’t need affirmative action if “discrimination-free” against every group was guaranteed. A friend of mine is latino doctor who feels that affirmative action is good as you need to attract minorities into fields like medicine, science and engineering. and my response was that how about attracting every kids about the attractive side of the field of science. The more I’m looking at Affirmative Action the more I realize that it’s bringing more divisions. I have met many whites who didn’t have a “racist” bone in their body but with the latest themes of discrimination, the ISM, and affirmative action and many more, they suddenly become more bitter.
Lashawn, you blog on race, Paula Zahn has been doing race special every night on her show. I do think it’s just a trick to exploit the stories. I don’t get any weight out of the discussion and it tends to serve as a way for an agenda. The racism they focus more is on white to Black. She does speak about other forms of discrimination but not the way the black vs white segments are exploited. CNN even got in trouble when they went to Vidor, Texas and only interviewed the worst of the town. The people of the town were disappointed because their town had improved. There’s an agenda I feel with her race shows every night.
She has a panel and I’m suprised that she hasn’t invited you to comment? Maybe you should email her?
Comment by dex — 01.30.07 @ 10:26 am
“The two things that you can be accused of without a shred of evidence and still be “guilty†of is Rape and Racism. ”
John that thing can apply across to every race, remember the Kobe Bryant thingie.
But watching Paula Zahn “light” handling of race on the show, one guy said that with the Duke race he finally understood how black people were reacting with the OJ Simpson case or all the other cases of blacks accused of committing crimes against whites, especially those that involved passion.
Comment by dex — 01.30.07 @ 10:30 am
*sigh* I’ll bite, even though these are the sort of slanted questions that are anathema to an honest conversation on the issue.
1) Do you loath government-mandated, lowered-standards policies like race preferences as much as I do?
No. I don’t see the psychological issues like stigma, divisiveness b/w the races, assumption that blacks lack the intellectual ability to do certain jobs, etc., etc. as being the product of race preferences–these things pre-dated affirmative action, and are still present in California and Michigan.
2) If not, why do you believe race preferences are necessary in America?
I don’t know that you have to believe something is “necessary” to support it. For instance, most supporters of faith-based initiatives would not characterize them as necessary in the sense that people of faith in America would fail without them…
That being said, I think these preferences, as they exist today as a race-plus factor, have done substantial good for a group of people, and coincided with the expansion of the black middle class, which is a serious plus. On the other hand, I don’t believe you can show a counterbalancing harm being done to white people, at least not on the same scale.
Why dismantle a program that has (1) worked, and worked well for millions of people (a benefit) and (2) has not imposed substantial costs on any group of people? Particularly since the race-plus stuff has (rightly) been upheld consistently for the last thirty years.
Comment by tvd — 01.30.07 @ 10:31 am
Trey, I agree.
Again, on the Paula Zahn “Light” handling of race on her show, a white pastor said that Racism should be looked as a sin, the same way you look at stealing, lying, cheating ect… he’s addressing the issue
At my church on sunday, a guest pastor, Mario Murillo said that he attended a meeting with various church leaders about the future of America’s secularism. One of the pastors said that “churches should be socially homogenous unit” to get people back into the churches.
He then took the example of a great evangelist in the 1850’s, I forgot the first name, maybe you guys can help me out, the name was Finney or something like that who told people that if you own slaves you would go to hell.
Comment by dex — 01.30.07 @ 10:34 am
I think that affirmative action as it was meant to be, providing for equal opportunities for minorities, has been bastardized beyond recognition. The thing is, quotas came into being because the white power structure(corporate and governmental) decided that, if they were being mandated to accept minorities, then they would only put up with a set number. That said, it’s still better to have those quotas in place then go with the notion that 40 or so years of affirmative action/quotas makes up for hundreds of years of white privilege. Whites have had their own affirmative action for years via slavery, jim crow, legacies(in college admissions),nepotism, property ownership and the like for years. I feel no guilt in blacks taking advantage of any opportunity to get their foot in the corporate/university door. As far as whites looking down on you because you may or may not be an affirmative action hire, that’s something they will have to live with. I wouldn’t let what they think affect me at all.
Comment by Larry — 01.30.07 @ 10:35 am
“That being said, I think these preferences, as they exist today as a race-plus factor, have done substantial good for a group of people, and coincided with the expansion of the black middle class, which is a serious plus. On the other hand, I don’t believe you can show a counterbalancing harm being done to white people, at least not on the same scale.”
That’s an interesting point too.
Comment by dex — 01.30.07 @ 10:36 am
tvd - Please propose what you believe would be unslanted questions. I’m extremely interested in knowing how you’d phrase the questions. Seriously, I’m not setting you up to mock you. I really want to know.
Comment by La Shawn — 01.30.07 @ 10:39 am
Larry, interesting points, I posted about that months ago. Hate breeds hate. 100 years ago, blacks were complaining that they didn’t have the same government preferences and today it’s reversed.
100 years ago, everything was done to the advantage of whites, like you point out whites had their version of “affirmative action” and preferential treatment. to me the worst was the GI Bill after WWII, and how black vets couldn’t get these same opportunties
You have to remember that it is only less than 45 years ago, that the civil rights act was and that blacks for the first time in American history nearly 200 years later could finally be considered “FREE”.
Other groups of immigrants from Europe and faced hardships came but the fact that these immigrants were whites gave them an advantage over blacks who didn’t come by choice and who still couldn’t get “a piece of the pie”
but again, Paula Zahn addressed this on her show. that Blacks’ racism against whites isn’t the same. one guy said that a woman can say that she hates men, but it doesn’t have the same weight because men are still in power, just like blacks hating whites isn’t the same thing as whites hating blacks because Whites are still in power and that because the oppressed’s “hatred” is justified compared to the “oppressor” who hates for the sake of hating.
I think that discrimination is discrimination, we need to stop looking at it across the boards, there’s no weights, or level, IT IS WHAT IT IS. the more we segregate discrimination, the less we achieve something.
I’m mixed on the issue and probably my post will reflect that.
At the same time, before 1964, the black community seemed to be much stronger, stable, moral, and hardworking than the black community after 1964. So it’s weird but I keep asking the question of where did we go wrong after 1964
Comment by dex — 01.30.07 @ 10:48 am
It never occurred to me to feel “white guilt” until I went to college and learned what a hotbed of racism this country is. I was taught that racism exists everywhere, and if you deny it, then that means you’re a racist too.
Since graduating and getting out of that atmosphere, I’ve come to realize that everyone–blacks, whites, asians, hispanics, middle easterners–harbors some racism. I’ve come to realize that assuming that your own group is a little superior to everyone else’s isn’t evil, it’s human, part of our survival instincts. It only turns into a bad thing when you use it as an excuse to make negative assumptions or treat others badly.
Comment by Jen in NC — 01.30.07 @ 10:52 am
1) I don’t know that all of these are “lowered-standards” policies–maybe I’m conflating, but most companies have responded to the government mandate by implementing something akin to the NFL’s Rooney Rule, which is in no way a quota and in no way lowers standards. As far as admissions go, I think you can argue the average SAT/GPA scores, but most minority admits fall comfortably within the range of scores acceptable for admission to the institution, and are therefore qualified.
2) That word “necessary” is problematic–to me, very little government policies are “necessary.” The relevant question is a cost/benefit one, not a necessity analysis. Does it hurt more than it helps, or vice versa?
Comment by tvd — 01.30.07 @ 10:52 am
“very little” should be “very few”
Comment by tvd — 01.30.07 @ 10:53 am
I think that the problem with the questions for blacks is that they imply that if you don’t deplore the policies as much as La Shawn, then you must support them. I don’t support them, yet I’m not grinding my teeth over them. Crime, fatherless homes, celebrating ignorance, non-prioritizing education, etc. affect me much more and if these things were remedied, affirmative action would cease to exist. Government policies lowering standards don’t generally lower the standards of any particular group. These policies are the result of already lowered standards and contrary to popular belief, a minority of people are affected by them. People mores like or dislike the idea of their existence as opposed to actually suffering or gaining from them.
I’m skeptical when people on the Internet make claims regarding their experiences with racism, being called racists, losing out due to Affirmative Action, etc. Go to any any mainstream predominantly black message board or blog and ask for racism experiences and it will sound like we are living in the 50s. Certainly the exaggerations are vast and I believe the same exaggerations come from the other side.
I think that the second question should read “If you believe that race preferences are necessary, could you please tell us why?”
Comment by Shade — 01.30.07 @ 11:08 am
I second Mark’s comment!
As a Black man, I hate to see hand-outs and the “great White Hope Liberals” who think they can make a difference with Black America. I’m tired of seeing reports on government hand-outs on TV where everyone in line is Black.
The public school system has failed Black America. The Black family structure has failed Black America. Those two failures have contributed to our downfall. Lack of knowledge and a sometimes blatant disregard of education has made public schools a joke which has become a root of the false sense of entitlement. The lack of a stable family structure has blossomed into welfare, welfare fraud, AFDC, WIC and other handouts. These families and single mothers are not encouraged to get off the programs. There are second and third generationst that have that false sense of entitlement.
This false sense of entitlement of government handouts and lowered standard policies are the modern-day slavery.
Comment by Tracey — 01.30.07 @ 11:09 am
I never have (am very self analytical..and never use never..smiling) suffered from these types of thoughts. I did find myself saying I was not prejudging minorities especially blacks, by a different set of standards than I used for whites. However, this only made me realize that I was a very judgmental person in general and that in an absence of minorities, I would probably be doing the same to whites. Is this too convoluted yet?
In a nutshell, I think am still prejudiced but this prejudice gets evoked by peoples lack of critical thinking rather than what the color of their skin is.
I would still be afraid if Shaq O was chasing me!
I appreciate your blog….
Comment by Michael — 01.30.07 @ 11:09 am
This is a hard question because I think that some policies are what helped blacks get into the middle class. For example the high school in the black community I used to live in was closed down. The students have to take public transportation to the rich white high schoo. Because I went to that high school I was able to get a good education and take AP classes and get all the informatin I can about college. (the only things I didnt like was the gay straight alliance) So I dont know I mean some of those policies might have helped. Also haveing two parents in the home. I reaally dont know what my political beliefs are but for the most part I believe in limited government. But I think its obvious that some of those government practices ilke affirmative action have helped some blacks. I think black [people need to make sure the scoools in our communites are giving the kids a good education and the kids will have an equal opportunity and can handle the courseload at a top notch ccollge. If we do this we wont need affirmative action to get a good job so we wont continue in a family cycle of poverty.
Comment by shari — 01.30.07 @ 11:17 am
Dex asked a great question: “So it’s weird but I keep asking the question of where did we go wrong after 1964.” Now I am answering this question from the outside, and that needs to be taken into consideration. But the Civil Rights movements through the tragic assination of Dr. King was a Christian movement. It was God’s will for the bigotry and sin of the nation to be healed, and Dr. King and others heard God’s call, and they answered.
SNCC, the panthers, the Black Muslim movement, these sprang from other sources, and were committed to other means. History can judge the changes in effectiveness and outcome.
Trey
Comment by Trey — 01.30.07 @ 11:18 am
I don’t feel I suffer from white guilt at all…but I do admit, walking on eggshells around some blacks. I am guessing that is because I have been afraid anything I say will offend or be taken wrongly.
I like anyone of any color who is considerate, intelligent, appreciates this country, etc etc.
Comment by Kristina C. — 01.30.07 @ 11:18 am
Yep, I absolutely loathe the lowered standards expectation for blacks. They aren’t necessary, and all they do is make it valid to believe blacks can never measure up.
The thing is, you expect little, you get little. It’s odd, because this country is over-saturated with the self-esteem movement, yet many people see nothing damaging about asking less of black people. You wonder how a black child is supposed to see herself if she is repeatedly told that she will never compete with her peers unless the bar is substantially lowered for her. Then again, much of the self-esteem movement is based on feeling good without any accomplishment to back it up, so maybe that’s how everything is reconciled.
Comment by Tyrian Purple — 01.30.07 @ 11:20 am
“What have you done or thought lately that appears to be based on white guilt?”
Never suffered from “white guilt” and was raised to consider skin color inconsequential.
My ancestors came from Eastern Europe in the very last decade of the 19th Century so white guilt would be kind of stupid for anyone in my family.
Added to that, if someone really studies history, somebody is always enslaving somebody else, somewhere, some time, up to and including the present day. So I would think it to be more productive to concentrate on getting our fellow humans to understand that slavery of any kind, at any time, is just plain WRONG and against the will of He who put us here!
Comment by Gayle Miller — 01.30.07 @ 11:26 am
Don’t feel white guilt, as I’ve not done anything to be guilty of, and I don’t think a ‘race’ can be guilty of anything, only individuals can. So if someone wants to point out something I’ve done, then I’ll feel guilty for that. (So to speak.)
I must admit, however, I am getting tired of this whole race division thing. Even the word African-American is silly, since how many of people can actually claim to be within a few generations of Africa?
Here in the south, you rarely find people calling themselves hyphenated Americans. (Italian, German, French, etc.) Once you are a generation or so away, you are an American (or better yet, Southerner).
I think the real path to Dr. King’s dream is to see each person as an individual. Once we group people by race, we create a color coded, not color-blind society.
Comment by Tom — 01.30.07 @ 11:42 am
Like Jen in NC, I didn’t know I had to feel guilty about being white until I went to college.
I suffered from white guilt for a tiny while because of college, but I grew out of it by, believe it or not, listening to Rush Limbaugh and also accessing the fabulous library at the University of Missouri Columbia.
Comment by Big Mo — 01.30.07 @ 12:03 pm
as usual, us hispanics are not even asked what our opinion is. you guys only want us around when you want your house cleaned, your lawn cut, or need some construction work done. but that’s alright, we’ll press on; one day we’ll have a voice. in case you’re wondering, i was being sarcastic.
i always wonder about these ‘racism’, ‘affirmative action’ etc, questions especially when i see ppl like colin powell, condi rice, cynthia mckinney, jocelyn elders, etc having been or presently in positions of power. when the final contestants for the super bowl was decided, a big deal was made about dungy and smith being the first black coaches to ever coach in the super bowl. um…how many blacks have already played (and won) in a super bowl? even before doug williams (the first black qb in a super bowl) played, black players had enjoyed super bowl victories. while some sports team owners may have racist tendencies (marge schott comes to mind) could it be possible that maybe they weren’t qualified for the position? dungy got his opportunity at tampa bay and built them into a formidable opponent. he becomes available and indianapolis signs him b/c of what he did at tampa bay. i don’t know smith’s story and herm edwards, dennis green, art shell, and romeo crennel just need to pick better teams to coach *snubs jets/chiefs, cardinals, raiders, and browns fans*
(for my final rant)now that i think of it, why isn’t the hispanic caucus fighting for my constitutional right to coach an nfl team? my people are tired of being part of the grounds crew. we want a part of the nfl dream. si se puede! si se puede!
Comment by thomas — 01.30.07 @ 12:06 pm
The odd thing is that I am southern, but educated in New England. I don’t think I ever suffered from white guilt, or if I did, I got over it at a young age. I saw it in New England with a vengeance, and it was a shocker. Another shocker was the concept that I met for the first time in New England that being on welfare is not shameful, but cleaning houses is. I think I could look my grandmother in the eye and tell her that I was someone’s maid. I do not believe I could tell her I was on welfare.
I briefly dated a leftist. He had black friends and gay friends. I had to unload him pretty quick because I found the idea of a quota system for ones friends to be so disrespectful and patronizing.
Comment by Stella! — 01.30.07 @ 12:07 pm
1. Do you loath Government-mandated lowered-standards policies like race preferences as much as I do?
No… To be fair, when Ward Connerly is out there “lobbying” for Ballot Initiative’s the target audience that would greatly benefit from his efforts are those who most avidly oppose such things like affirmative action and etc..
So in essence he’s really lobbying to the “Majority” isnt he? The Majority in this country is white. I suspect if black brown or yellow were the majority they’d want a system that allowed for them to vote in laws as well, and not have government step in and do whats right. (that one was kinda easy)
As far as race preference, yes it offends, me but im mindful of those who it benefits. The good’ol boy network in this country (the other taboo topic everyone is afraid to discuss ) is very much alive and well…While there is no doubt in my mind that most companies and organizations will hire based on qualifications and not skin color, there are some who if given the chance wouldnt.
I believe race preference’s are necesary b/c it levels the playing field. In this country the Majority of White Collar/Exec. jobs are held by the majority..Even the “handout” positions as it was labeled only represent what maybe 16 to 17 % of the workforce. This doesn’t mean that i’m advocating for big business to open the door and let anyone just get a job, but at least consider diversifying the now overcrowded majority playing field with people qualified to do the jobs who may not look like the “norm.”
Comment by eric — 01.30.07 @ 12:14 pm
I doubt that many people actually suffer from “white quilt”. To me, this is mostly a myth and a meaningless phrase in social and political debate.
What I do believe is that a major portion of the white populace (generally liberal) practices codependency. The “white savior” is a common theme in society and depends on having someone to save, thus prompting many whites to serve as enablers for black dysfunction.
Comment by Shade — 01.30.07 @ 12:24 pm
Questions for black readers (Be honest!):
1) Do you loath government-mandated, lowered-standards policies like race preferences as much as I do?
Yes I do. Mainly because at the time I benefited from race preferences I didn’t even realize it. It was when I first entered college as a freshman. I was specifically recruited simply because I was black, not because I had a 3.5 GPA or that I was on the deans list or that I was class and student body president, not even due to the fact that I was captain of the football team. I know this because the admissions counselor, when asked, didn’t even know these things about me. Other than my GPA, these facts weren’t even in my records. Then what really shocked me was when I was finally told by this counselor and other black recruiters that I was at that school because I was black! I kid you not. Their job was to simply recruit black students, period. They were there for no other reason.
College was tough and in retrospect sometimes I wonder if I should have gone when I did or if I should have stayed out for a while and worked in the real world. It was such a huge deal to everyone that I never really thought about it until afterward. So, from my perspective, AA programs are detrimental because they inadvertently cause people to stop really seeing the world as it really is. It creates this herd-like process of pushing minority students through the “system” without regard to whether they should really be there or not. Or if it even benefits them or not.
Comment by Jerry McClellan — 01.30.07 @ 12:24 pm
thomas, Post #26:
(for my final rant)now that i think of it, why isn’t the hispanic caucus fighting for my constitutional right to coach an nfl team? my people are tired of being part of the grounds crew. we want a part of the nfl dream. si se puede! si se puede!
You do realize that Tom Flores was the starting quarterback for the Raiders from 1960-1966 and later COACHED the Raiders to two Superbowl wins in 1980 and 1983? So the first minority coach to win a Superbowl is Hispanic.
Comment by Shade — 01.30.07 @ 12:37 pm
Also, thomas,
Flores’s quarterback in 1980 was Jim Plunkett, who is Mexican American. Thus, the first minority quarterback to win a Superbowl is Hispanic.
Comment by Shade — 01.30.07 @ 12:47 pm
shade #31
after doing some quick research, i stand corrected. i had completely forgotten about him. how sad is that, forgetting one of my own people? oh, the shame of it. he’s a half-breed, maybe that’s why i forgot=)) j/k (he’s 1/2 italian as well)
Comment by thomas — 01.30.07 @ 12:53 pm
Shade–your codependency term? Thanks. I’ve always wondered what’s a polite term for such behavior. I’ve encountered these types and they’re creepy and destructive. They’re puzzled by black people who aren’t victims. They’re the ones who have trouble wrapping their brains around a black person who didn’t grow up in the ghetto and can use words with more than two syllables. They get upset that they don’t get to play the knight on the white horse so they actually have the audacity to question the blackness of any black person who won’t feed their rescue impulse. They seem to get a high off the idea that white people are the cause of everyone’s troubles, and therefore, only white people can save the day. They’re disgusting.
Comment by Tyrian Purple — 01.30.07 @ 12:54 pm
shade,
(i’m just messing around w/this topic) ok, there’s flores and plunkett. but since then, who else is there? my people were able to experience it for a short time before it was viciously snatched away.
(btw, i wonder if anthony munoz [OL] would feel ignored?=)
Comment by thomas — 01.30.07 @ 1:00 pm
White.
I take Martin Luther King’s words to heart. If I indulge in white guilt, I am discounting the “content of my character”. I have paid rent to a Hispanic man and received a paycheck from a Black American and an Iranian Jew. I think that is a humanizing experience. In studying history, I also realize that my ancestors were probably slaves of the serfdom type - not bought and sold like livestock, but part of the farm like the buildings or water rights. When my children were very young, I made a point of not labeling people by race. They weren’t black people or Chinese people or Indians, they were just PEOPLE.
I know that racism is alive and well in the world. Millions of people have to contend with it and overcome it, but my hand-wringing will not help a single individual gain dignity or self-worth.
Comment by Mark — 01.30.07 @ 1:09 pm
1) What have you done or thought lately that appears to be based on white guilt?
Lately, nothing. Back during my college-age flirtation with the mental disorder of liberalism (long since cured), I had much guilt. I joined in the marches for all the wrong reasons, trying to show how ashamed I was of “my” people. I was focused upon the negative, instead of working for the positive goal of eliminating legalized discrimination.
2) If you once suffered from white guilt but now you’re over it, how/why did you get over it?
I grew up. Really. That’s not a flippant answer, but the unvarnished truth. As I came out of the fog and realized what a fraudulent philosophy liberalism is, I lost my corresponding “white guilt” as well. I realized I had nothing to be guilty about.
Recognizing the positive good that can be done by getting involved in civil rights problem solving is a far cry from the negativity of hand-wringing and whimpering as practiced by guilt-ridden white liberals.
Comment by RedBeard — 01.30.07 @ 1:14 pm
No white guilt whatsoever. None. I am a distinct, unique individual, as is every other human being of any color. I have never personally oppressed anyone nor, as far as I can tell, purposely discriminated nor pre-judged anyone, for good or bad, based on color. I am not personally responsible for any outrages or atrocities committed by other white people, especially those who committed the outrages before I was born. I can understand the retroactive disgust at THOSE white people, and I share it, but I have enough other flaws than to add some kind of imaginary racism to my own list of human shortcomings.
I suppose some would label it racism that I feel a sense of alarm and revulsion about certain aspects of present-day black culture, such as hip-hop music and staggering rates of illegitimacy, but I feel the same way about white people who transgress the mores of a civilized society.
Comment by Dave — 01.30.07 @ 1:14 pm
When talking of personal responsibility and independence as compared to preferring government handouts, the subject should not be isolated as a race only issue.
Try reading “America Alone” by Mark Steyn.
The dependence on government instead of accepting personal responsibility is wreaking Europe and America is slipping down the slope.
Comment by Rick — 01.30.07 @ 1:28 pm
thomas
Jeff Garcia is one of the premier quarterbacks. J.P. Losman is the starting quarterback for The Bills. Tony Gonzalez is the number one tightend in the league. Luis Castillo was a first round draft choice. Marco Rivera is a pro-bowler. The list is pretty long.
Tyrian Purple
I’ve generally considered that to be a more accurate term than “white guilt”. Most people are reasonably individualistic and most don’t feel guilty for the actions of ancestors.
Also, I think that blacks who are put in the spotlight by the mass media are those who likewise have picked up this tendency toward codependency. Otherwise, they would not get the attention that they get. White liberals have the greatest control over the media and rarely give black conservatives any attention as well as blacks in general who don’t enable lower class blacks.
Thus, the black populace is greatly influenced by black, as well as white, enablers which is why middle and upper-class blacks tend strongly to enable the self-destructive behavior of lower-class blacks.
This is why I think that it is absurd when people suggest that blacks vote democrat so that they can keep their government aid. Those blacks who are dependent on government aid tend to fall into that 60% who don’t vote. It is independent, self reliant blacks who vote for the party they see as most enabling for lower class blacks.
Comment by Shade — 01.30.07 @ 1:36 pm
White guilt? Probably. I feel no guilt because my great grandparents and beyond owned black slaves.
Apparently they were sufficiently well treated that they would send their children back after emancipation to work for them “to learn white folks ways”. That was then, now is now and I am a part of now. However, if there were no “white guilt” why should I feel especially pleased when a black person gets ahead through hard work, intelligence and integrity? Here I think especially of people like Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams and yourself. I don’t have near the same delight when I come across white people who have done the same thing. But maybe it’s just another case of our enjoyment in reading a story where the underdog comes out on top.
Comment by Bill Brown — 01.30.07 @ 1:47 pm
Questions for white readers:
(1) One thing I did recently that was based on white guilt was to allow for a black employee to get away with behavior I did not allow others to get away with. That is, I did not comment on his behavior and did not speak to him as I do to others about ethics in the workplace or did not talk to him about how his behavior affected others on the job. Being Christian, I had a tremendous call to say something to him, to set him straight. But 20 plus years of my former liberalism kicked in and I made excuses for his behavior.
(2) I am mostly over any white guilt I may have had (except for the above mentioned case) and the reason for this is Christ. What kind of man am I if I treat someone differently because of their race? I no longer cringe at the way I often abased myself in certain social situations and at the way I made “excuses” for bad behavior or criminal behavior because of someone’s skin color. I feel it is a sin to give the finger to someone in traffic, but I still do it when my anger boils over. But I feel it is an even greater sin to not give the finger to someone because that someone is black. Why, even in my anger, would I differentiate? I know I’m giving a silly example but I’ve often thought about this — why did I treat someone differently, whether I was being kind or being cruel? Because I was a “racialist.” I was reducing a man’s character to his race. I was hamstringing my relations with people by putting blacks on a pedestal and self-censoring my speech in fear of letting what would be an offensive word or two slip and hurt someone’s feelings.
Comment by Eugene Levitzky — 01.30.07 @ 1:59 pm
I don’t think that I adequately explained myself in my other posts on the supreme court topic. I posted similar comments at another (majority white) site and people were not as offended.
For the record, I was not trying to stereotype all whites equally. I do believe that blacks nor whites care about the other enough AS A GROUP to insure support for opposite group, one way or the other.
Kendrick, even if you disagree, you don’t have to be nasty about it. I don’t think that I was nasty to you.
Thank you Ms. Barber for the delete.
I never said that I did not have any prejudices, I think we all do on some level. I just think that the goal of affirmative action minded people was to see that QUALIFIED minorities (women and blacks) receive a CHANCE to prove themselves.
Yes, I did have a negative experience with getting admitted into my college due to someone’s prejudice. I know that I deserved to be there but I still think that AA played a role. I was QUALIFIED and I was black, so I probably got in in some part due to AA.
I just don’t see why the people who were offended by my comments have a problem with what I said. I do think that people stereotype and judge based upon perceived lower standards. If I’m not mistaken, even Ms. Barber said that she resented being viewed as lower (I know she feels it is because of AA).
I really just don’t believe that white folks care (one way or the other) to find a way to insure that even qualified blacks get into a school. So HBCU’s will have increases in student attendance.
What is wrong with that? That is all that I was trying to say.
To answer the questions…
1)I don’t agree with LOWER STANDARD anything.
2)I could see where there may have been a legitimate need for a program that set aside positions for blacks. As long as blacks are not being systematically excluded from public universities WHEN THEY QUALIFY. I don’t think that there is a need for it. It just scares me to think that there could be many cases where QUALIFIED blacks are disqualified because of their race.
As I said somewhere else, if Billy Blue Eyes and Leroy apply for the same job and are EQUALLY QUALIFIED, who will most likely get the job. I’d just like to feel that sometimes Leroy will get the chance to prove himself too.
Comment by Heather in MD — 01.30.07 @ 2:24 pm
I’m don’t know that it qualifies as ‘white guilt’ but my thinking has changed about black/white relations. During 28 years working for a large company, mostly in a first-line manager level position, during most of that time my immediate manager and also his manager has been Black. (This has involved multiple managers, not just one.) I’ve had the opportunity for many in-depth and candid conversations with my Black managers and co-workers, and have come to understand a bit better the destructive and hurtful consequences of racial discrimination. The mental and emotional hurt and scarring that results from being treated unfairly doesn’t just go away, but can create sensitivity like John described in #3. Being white and male, that thinking may be like imagining what it’s like to be pregnant, but it has allowed me to get beyond the “why don’t they just get over it” kind of thinking.
To whatever extent there continue to be real race-based impediments to education, or any other opportunity, I believe we as a nation need to eliminate them because we need the skills and abilities of everyone to address the challenges that we all face. For many of the reasons mentioned in other comments above I don’t know that racial preferences are the answer; they just perpetuate the problem. Each instance would have to be addressed on its facts to fix it.
I wish I felt more optimistic about our willingness as a nation to seek meaningful change. It’s a heart problem and we don’t seem to do too well in those areas.
Comment by B-squared — 01.30.07 @ 2:39 pm
“The Majority in this country is white. I suspect if black brown or yellow were the majority they’d want a system that allowed for them to vote in laws as well, and not have government step in and do whats right. (that one was kinda easy)” (eric)
I don’t follow.
That statement doesn’t seem to make any sense.
It was WHITES who instituted AA and turned it into a preference program for blacks and browns. Those who did that, did it because they honestly believed that the vast majority of blacks couldn’t compete on anything close to a level playing field.
They aren’t guilty of devising a system that gave any advantage to themselves, at least not with AA, but one that gave government sanctioned preferences to another racial group.
Do you think “black, brown, or yellow” would’ve devised a system of preferences for a racial minority within their midsts?
No, neither do I.
Comment by JMK — 01.30.07 @ 2:39 pm
While this example wasn’t MY white guilt, it was a jaw dropper to behold: While at college, an unavailable girl I was hot for told me about her boyfriend’s roommate. This girl was dating a really nice guy from India (which is why I never seriously pursued her; if he had been a jerk, well, then it would have been open season.)
Anyway, the India dude’s roommate was a whiney liberal white dude who — get this — believed it was his duty/punishment/whatever to room with a “person of color†so he could learn about other people in the world because whites were the “oppressors†and “we†needed to be taken down. I kid you not.
The guy needed a serious intervention.
That incident of white guilt was one of the things that woke me up from my sheep-like liberal comatose state.
Comment by Big Mo — 01.30.07 @ 2:44 pm
Sorry, I just remembered one more. About a decade ago in St. Louis, there was mass protest over contracts doled out by the Missouri Department of Transportation. But when I first heard that there was going to be a protest and a highway shutdown, I am sure I was not alone when my first thought was, “What in the hell are they bitching about now?â€
It turns out that there WAS a legitimate problem. But I felt a little guilt for not caring, but instead being ticked that they were going to shut down the highway. I’ve become so used to the seemingly unending cries of “Racism!” and “Discrimination!” that I’m immune to them.
I remember feeling a fleeting bit of guilt over it, then remembered the old fable of the boy who cried wolf. When you scream racism and discrimination over every blasted thing, it loses its power.
Comment by Big Mo — 01.30.07 @ 2:53 pm
I’ve written and deleted a posting to this subject about 4 times. I have so much to say I don’t even know where to begin but suffice it to say, I have a biracial granddaughter who I love with every breath of my being. I cannot possibly explain to you, though, the trauma our family went through when my daughter announced she was pregnant with a black man’s child. Every destructive emotion a person can have came out of each one of us, everything from anger to deep sorrow to hopelessness to pity to guilt. My husband literally fell to his knees (and it was not to pray) the day he was told.
Fast forward 10 years later and I can assure you that God gave all of us a gift those 10 years ago that enriches our lives every single day of the year. We will never go through those negative feelings described above again because we know better.
White guilt is a destructive emotion. It doesn’t benefit anybody. A sense of entitlement because of race is also destructive. And some day, when we face our maker, we’ll all see that we’re made in the image of the one who created us and that’s all that matters.
Comment by dianne — 01.30.07 @ 2:54 pm
1) Do you loath government-mandated, lowered-standards policies like race preferences as much as I do?
I wouldn’t say I loath, but I do think that ‘race’ preferences shopuld be adjusted to address issues of socio-economic standing and be reflective of the unlevel standards of the American educational system.
2) If not, why do you believe race preferences are necessary in America?
I think I answered this question with the above answer. I just wish more white folks would be honest enough to admit that there are still obstacles that need to be overcome in this country with regard to race and not continually gloss over the subject with a bunch of kumbaya BS.
There is something inherently broken in this country when a black man without a criminal record cannot get hired, but a white man with a criminal record can.
Comment by Tiffany in Houston — 01.30.07 @ 3:14 pm
1. Yes, I once suffered from a serious bout of white guilt. I had a best friend who was black, and there were certain subjects I avoided because I knew it would cause a catastrophic confrontation that my subdued personality wasn’t equipped to deal with. My friend championed the OJ verdict–I said nothing. She had no grasp on any political issues, and voted straight Democrat ticket (because Republicans are for the “rich whites” I was told) without blinking an eye. I said nothing. I always felt that I avoided these situations because of some underlying racial element. Most black people I knew all felt the same way as my friend, so I didn’t see any use in speaking out. That is just the way “they” were, I thought.
2. One day, I said something. It was when the whole Katrina debacle happened and she was on a “Bush hates black people” trip, while extoling the great wisdom of Kanye West. She flipped out when I said “refugee” in place of “evacuee,” and that was the last straw. I really laid it on the line and let her know that I did not think Bush hated black people and went into a whole spiel about entitlement attitudes, failure of the local and state government, etc. Instead of defending her position in a logical fashion, she lauched into an emotionally-charged tirade and chose to personally attack me, telling me how much I had changed (I guess I was becoming too white). It was on that day that I realized that I shouldn’t feel guilty or sidestep an issue because I don’t want to impress on anyone’s feelings. It is not my fault if people (black or not) cannot break the bondage of close-minded, one-dimensional thinking. My friend and I grew up in the same, middle-class neighborhood, went to the same schools, colleges, etc., but yet she still managed to come away with this “chocolate city” thinking, and it really disappointed me, particularly because we had the same opportunities, yet turned out vastly different. Sometimes I have a passing feeling of sadness because our friendship never fully recovered. But, I know it is nothing for me to feel guilty about. When I read your blog and others like Mychal Massie, Star Parker, Jessie Lee Peterson, etc., I feel encouraged because I know not everyone is stuck in this “groupthink” mentality. I really take issue with those who call educated, right-thinking blacks “Uncle Toms” and accuse ya’ll of “acting white” because you don’t speak ignorant, unintelligible, gangsta slang and are able to think beyond “Democrats good, Republicans bad.”
Comment by Elizabeth S. — 01.30.07 @ 3:15 pm
>>…if Billy Blue Eyes and Leroy apply for the same job and are EQUALLY QUALIFIED, who will most likely get the job.>>
You’re right that there’s a cultural comfort factor that I think is being overlooked. We have a store that supplies lightbulbs to a number of fast food stores in the area. Most have predominantly hispanic staff. Years ago, McDs et al were a common first job for teenagers…what about today? Visualize your typical white non-spanish speaking teen applying for a job among a group of 4-6 Spanish speaking workers who are taking orders in English, but communicate among themselves in Spanish. Who do you think the manager is going to hire? The white kid who doesn’t speak Spanish, or the hispanic kid? Visualize for yourself the working atmosphere where one person is unable to interact with the other workers when there’s the usual back and forth bantering going on. You could get paranoid!
It’s a bit of the same thing - in the past, blacks had a totally different culture…they thought whites were “stuffed shirts”, whites thought blacks were “low class”. Even today, we see this in the language used in the ghetto like rap songs. They’re offensive, imo, though apparently there are plenty who don’t think so. I consider the use of such language ignorant and low class and probably wouldn’t choose such a person to socialize with - even if I worked with them.
So…it really isn’t so much the Blue-Eyes…it’s the cultural thing as much as color, I think.
There’s also the “chip on the shoulder” thing. My son dated a black woman from Jamaica. Intelligent, educated, well spoken - terrific person. (also the only one in her large family with much character, but that’s a different issue!) The difference is that she’s black, but she isn’t “_A_ Black”. Color isn’t a factor because she doesn’t _make_ it a factor.
Just exactly what _is_ racism? My son said I was racist because I used “black” in describing someone. I told him _he_ was racist because he _couldn’t_ use it. Is it racist to be aware of race? Is it racist to say “Blacks don’t score as high as whites on such and such a test.”?
I’m not sure any more just exactly what racism _is_.
Comment by suek — 01.30.07 @ 3:16 pm
I think that “black guilt” is more of prevalent:
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=14&click_id=125&art_id=vn20041009113525362C566352
Comment by Shade — 01.30.07 @ 3:26 pm
La Shawn
While at work, I did a little research on Ward Connerly..I knew that i’d heard his name before but I wasnt certain where. Is this the same Ward Connerly who the San Fransisco Chronicle outed for taking 1 million in state and government contracts b/c he registered his company as a Minority Owned Business? One of those “perks” Im sure he had no problem cashing in on.
If this is the case, I consider it very hypocritical of him to make such comments.
That was an error on the Chronicle’s part. I e-mailed Connerly a couple of years ago asked him about it. He told me his business never accepted race-based entitlements. - Admin
Comment by eric — 01.30.07 @ 3:26 pm
suek
the question is , if your son dated a white woman, would make comments on “how well spoken she is? “
Comment by eric — 01.30.07 @ 3:30 pm
“What have you done or thought lately that appears to be based on white guilt?” (LaShawn)
In the late 1960s my Dad was a fireman in the East New York/Brownsville section of Brooklyn. Occasionally I would visit the firehouse he worked in. They were routinely pelted with stones and bottles from the rooftops of houses in the areas they responded to.
As a result, I grew up convinced that blacks hated whites, so I despised them as well, and with a passion. Ironically enough neither my Dad, nor most of the guys he worked with saw it that way, they saw it as kids not knowing the difference between something being reckless and something being dangerous.
It wasn’t until I went to College that I met a fair number of blacks and was surprised that most of those I met weren’t at all like I’d expected them to be.
I’d always presumed that the vast majority of blacks supported things like welfare and quotas and since I saw welfare and the Housing Projects as things that kept blacks consigned to urban reservations, I must admit, I liked that idea.
Quotas didn’t effect me directly, so I didn’t think about them one way or the other at that time, but I supported welfare and public housing, for my own reasons, since I believed “it kept “them” out of places like Staten Island.”
I was most surprised that many of the blacks I met and spoke to, had as Conservative a viewpoint on things like crime, etc as did many of the whites I knew, in fact, in some ways many blacks were even more conservative than most whites.
Further into College, I came across the writings of Professor Walter E Williams and Thomas Sowell and between their views and those offered by the likes of Milton Friedman, Ludwig von Mises and Jude Wanniski, I began to become far more Libertarian (limited government) and I realized that my innate dislike of and distrust of blacks had led me to support programs that I knew where not in their best interests.
By the time I got on the Fire Department, I’d come to acknowledge that I was wrong to have judged an entire people through a child’s eyes.
By the time I met Chief Julius (the black Battalion Chief who passionately opposed race-based preferences) I strongly opposed many of the policies that I knew inculcated dependancy among the poor (both black & white) and I vehemewntly opposed preferences because, in the FDNY, they always came with lowered standards.
So, I guess I never felt any “white guilt,” though I have changed my overall view of blacks over time.
While I do regret that I ever supported policies because I believed they kept the majority of blacks tethered to housing projects, etc, I don’t feel guilty about having once held those views - they were what they were (a child’s eye view) and I was fortunate to have met many people whose very demeanor and decency challenged my preconceptions about them, just as I was fortunate to have come across the writings of Professor Williams and Dr Sowell, writings that in part changed my outlook on a lot of things.
I now believe that it’s only natural for many people to fear Liberty (personal responsibility) because it’s a hard path and an uncertain one, but it’s also the system that best inculcates individualism and encourages individuals to develop and implement their own talents.
That’s why I now support “work-fare” with mandatory job training and some work for stipend and the Jack Kemp “onwership initiative,” as well as opposing race/gender preferences that are based on the despicable belief that some groups just can’t compete on the same set of standards as everyone else.
When I supported things because I saw them as detrimental to a group I mistrusted, I was viewing things through an eight year old’s eyes. I’m glad I don’t any longer.
Comment by JMK — 01.30.07 @ 3:36 pm
White questions:
1. I don’t think I’ve suffered from white guilt, but sometimes I get ticked off when someone seems to assume I should, just because I’m white. All of my ancestors came here after the Civil War, so slavery is not in my family history. I’m supposed to feel guilty why…?
What I do suffer from is white caution. I tend to edit my words before I say them when I’m around blacks I don’t know very well, because I can never be sure I won’t say something innocuous to me but offensive to them (similar to the time at work when we had struggled to find a solution to an IT problem, and I sent out a memo to our group announcing we had the “final solution”–my boss was Jewish and asked me to use different words in the future).
2. N/A
Comment by SkyePuppy — 01.30.07 @ 3:38 pm
1) What have you done or thought lately that appears to be based on white guilt? Absolutely nothing…
2) If you once suffered from white guilt but now you’re over it, how/why did you get over it? Never had it
And I really think that “White Guilt” is a libber cop-out, much akin to the same group that wants ’slave reparations’…
Comment by TexasFred — 01.30.07 @ 3:59 pm
That was an error on the Chronicle’s part. I e-mailed Connerly a couple of years ago asked him about it. He told me his business never accepted race-based entitlements. - Admin
But didn’t he admit that, as a result of new regulations, he certified his company as a minority-owned business in order to keep previous contracts?
I don’t know anything about that. If you’ve got a link to a source verifying that’s what happened, let’s see it. Otherwise, I consider it libelous and will respond accordingly. - Admin
Comment by Shade — 01.30.07 @ 4:02 pm
I’m not sure I’ve really suffered from “white guilt”, since I grew up in mainly military communities where things seem to be more based on merit. However, when in a public situation, I may temper my words - with all the PC crap going on, I don’t need to be accused of being a racist - being a new teacher, that could affect my ability to find the kind of employment I want.
2)
Comment by Miss Ladybug — 01.30.07 @ 4:16 pm
And I really think that “White Guilt†is a libber cop-out
Wouldn’t it be more of a conservative cop-out since it seems to be a term tossed around mostly by conservatives and I doubt that many liberals would claim to have white guilt?
Comment by Shade — 01.30.07 @ 4:28 pm
He concedes that in a few cases new laws and regulations have forced him to certify his company as a minority-owned enterprise in order to keep previous contracts with public agencies.
Charles Imbrecht, chairman of California’s Energy Commission, which is one of Connerly’s clients, agrees that the CCRI leader is being wrongly accused. “Mr. Connerly’s self-certification as a minority business enterprise simply means that his firm can meet the requirement that 15 percent of the funds … do not need to be directed to a separate certified minority firm,” says Imbrecht. “The suggestion that he or his company has somehow benefited on the basis of race is wrong.”
Link
Comment by Shade — 01.30.07 @ 4:48 pm
Great Question LaShawn….I am white and I will answer to that effect…
1)I rather doubt I have succumbed to this foolish behavior in years having been released from this thinking for years….I am pretty much the opposite of this thinking…I mean…I groan at upcoming February because of Black History Month….I am thinking to myself…..here comes Whitey hating and guilt month…….I used to really embrace this month…I can’t any longer ………
2 I guess my genesis from release of this guilt would have began when I became a Christian 16 years ago and thus was instilled in me a love for the Truth…in all areas……..BUT it took a mentor to come all side of me to show me the darkness of Liberalism (and white guilt is under that rubric) and slowly the veil was lifted from my eyes……….Also, one cannot underestimate the effect the Free press of the internet has had……..ALL those great Black Writers that have helped me…….Larry Elder really comes to mind….Star Parker……Thomas Sowell…….Ward Connerly….so so many more…your website LaShawn only serves to reinforce the truth agaisnt White Guilt….
Thanks
Comment by Devon — 01.30.07 @ 5:38 pm
This is an example of why I like your blog, La Shawn - you’re good at making me think.
1. I didn’t think I suffered from “white guilt”, and I’m still not sure that I do. I do tend to feel pleased when I see a black or other minority ethnic person doing a job which is “traditionally white”. I suspect that that’s a little bit patronising, really.
I grew up in rural England, where all the locals were white, but went to boarding school with a number of foreigners (lots of Hong Kong Chinese, a few Africans). I don’t remember having any kind of racial conciousness at all - the fact that one of the boys in my class had black skin was no more or less remarkable then the fact that one had red hair - it was just the way things were. I must have learned that a thing such as racism existed from the TV - I think it wasn’t until I went to University that I first met (at least to talk to) a British person with black or brown skin.
Comment by Sam — 01.30.07 @ 5:40 pm
1. I wait tables on the weekends at a chain restaurant in a decent part of Los Angeles. I work seven days a week to provide myself what is a pretty low quality of life; I have to work extra hard just for that. I work during the week monday thru friday and then fri, sat, sun I’m a server. I wait on Black folks quite a bit, some of them are ok, but I hate to say that most of them are awful. They run you ragged for whatever they want, often times without a please or thank you and then sure enough there’s a 5% tip if anything at all. My heart just sinks whenever I see them sit down in my section because I know I just lost money. Because of the percentage of our sales that we have to tip out, we actually end up paying for people to eat there when we get stiffed or less than 5% tip. I am a great server; I run hard because I know that my tips should be determined that way, but most Blacks I imagine come already thinking they owe you nothing. Sure enough, though my white guilt which rears its ugly head, has me running harder for that table than my other White, Asian or Hispanic tables because for the most part I know I will get a gratuity regardless from those folks. I dont want to offend the Black table by making it seem that I am being discriminatory so I am extra attentive to them. Most times they are all on their sidekicks/cell phones and dont even look up at me. Its actually difficult to get their order sometimes b/c they look away or speak at a volume that they want, not one that you can hear. I deal with it every weekend of my life and it is just tearing me apart. I feel very sad, b/c I’ve never wanted to hate anyone, but I cant help but hate Black people more and more with each passing weekend because of their disregard for me. I had 2 Black tables on Sunday night. The two checks combined totalled about $190 dollars…not a cent. In fact the one guy wrote on the check left in the check presenter “Jesus paid for it all” — I dunno. Can someone who is a believer, like I am be so cruel. A lot of the other guilty white/Asian and Hispanic waiters I work with make excuses sometimes that its a class thing and they just dont know. I dont agree. If they were foreign I would understand; they’re Americans, they know better. They are just being greedy and rude and I’m sick of dealing with it. I think it is actually making me physically sick, b/c I get so worked up and angry about it. I know that God forbid I ever actually mentioned it publicly and spoke the truth, I would be sued and just verbally shredded, but yet I am the one who gets screwed over and over. I feel horrible that I am being so honest, but I’ve never truly had an opportunity to get that out. Thanks LaShawn.
Comment by laguy — 01.30.07 @ 5:50 pm
>>…the question is , if your son dated a white woman, would make comments on “how well spoken she is? “>>
In this day and age??? You bet!! Her vocabulary, her style, her wit - better than my son’s! I’m an “verbal snob”…I appreciate correct usage. I have one son who says “a word means whatever I mean it to mean” and “grammar is arbitrary”. Imo, not if you want to be able to communicate between two people with any degree of accuracy! Do you know how hard it is to get concepts across? and then add to that a limited vocabulary or using words to mean whatever you want them to?
White, black or green - I appreciate a well-spoken person. We won’t get into the politics of what the well-spoken person says…at least not at the moment!
Comment by suek — 01.30.07 @ 6:16 pm
(White respondent)
1) Have I ever experienced white guilt?
What an excellent question. Thank you, La Shawn, both for having the courage — and challenging us to have the courage — to tackle touchy questions, and for running a blog that does so for the most part very respectfully.
I pretty much have my hands full dealing with stuff for which I *am* guilty (impatience, sloth, etc) without taking on bogus ones. But I can think of three recent instances where race-consciousness definitely was front and center.
A few years ago, I found out that a black woman who used to help my mom around the house had died. Her name was Ida. She worked for our family at a very particular historical moment in the late 1960s/early 1970s. When she came to work for us, domestic work was basically all that was open to black women. Then policies were changed, and Ida got a secretarial job with the city government.
But she was a big part of my life. My mother had her hands full with an alcoholic husband, five children under the age of 8, a big house, and such a serious issue with depression (go figure!)that she literally would not get out of bed some days. Our childhood was really pretty chaotic, and Ida was a source of comfort and dependability to a child who was scared and anxious and lonely a lot of the time.
When I found out Ida had died, I wanted to write to her son, just to express my condolences and tell him what his mother had meant to me. But I definitely hesitated. I wondered if it would hurt or offend him to be reminded that his mother had worked as a domestic (never mind that my Irish grandmother had done the same thing) or that I might appear to be condescending to Ida’s memory, or to him — a Princeton law grad and now mayor of our little town — reminding him of “his place.”
Ultimately, I decided that decency demanded that I acknowledge his loss, and how much his mother had meant to me. I prayed to God to make my words come out right. When I saw him two years later at a town function, for the first time since we were both children, he embraced me.
The second recent episode of race-consciousness came right after September 11, at the National Day of Prayer that was held a few days later. I went to a church in the neighborhood of my office building and just slipped into one of the few empty seats I could find. As the prayers started, the officiant asked for salvation for the souls of those killed, healing for their families, and so forth. Then he threw in something about “and healing for all those who have suffered the sting of racism.”
And I though, Oh, Please. Must EVERYTHING, EVEN THIS be made to be about racism?
Then the black woman next to me started sobbing. It was an emotional day, obviously, but it wasn’t until that prayer was offered that her heart seemed to break. I just offered my hand, and she took it, and we held hands for most of the rest of the service without saying a word. But in a flash, I felt my irritation drain completely away, and in its place just flowed: acceptance. I do not know what this woman suffered, but I do know she was suffering. And I just felt strongly called in that moment to try to comfort, not to analyze, this sister in Christ. And I did feel guilt for my earlier irritation. Though again, this could be personal guilt, for my personal tendency towards impatience and conclusion-jumping, more than “white guilt.”
Finally, I am married to a black man (a Haitian, as it happens, so like most of his countrymen he actually has quite the complicated pedigree, but his skin at any rate is black). Last year we were in New York for a romantic weekend before he had to fly out to Brussels on business. At the end of the weekend, we were standing in front of the Duane Reade on Broadway and 62nd, prolonging our goodbyes as we had to take cabs in opposite directions (me to Penn Station, he to the airport).
We stood on the sidewalk talking for a while, and I noticed a black woman watching us, who appeared to be waiting for something. Finally, we really, really REALLY had to get in the cabs, and though we are not usually the great ones for public displays of affection, we kissed a long time; it was going to be two weeks apart.
As I crossed the street to get my cab, I saw the black woman who had been watching us follow me with her eyes, and the look on her face was pure hatred. (It was not my imagination; he noticed it too, and remarked on it two weeks later.) I think I can understand her pain. There are so few eligible black men compared to black women in this country. And I am not immune. After three miscarriages, I still struggle to accept that it is not God’s plan for me to have a child with my husband. And I mean I struggle. I see pregnant women, or moms with young children, and I wish I could just be happy for their joy, but sometimes the pain is unbearable.
2) If I ever did have white guilt, how did I get over it?
Again, I don’t know if any of what I have felt: hesitation to write to Ida’s son, shame at my annoyance at the post-9/11 service, defensiveness at my marriage to a black man — is really “guilt.”
I think “white guilt” is a form of laziness, actually. It is so much less effort to make a big display of self-flagellation, and throw some money (other people’s money) around than to really engage with people. It is so much less effort than to follow Christ, in whom there is no Jew or Greek, no black or white, no free of slave.
Apologies for what turned into a long post.
Comment by Annie — 01.30.07 @ 6:18 pm
Lashawn,
I respectfully disagree with Mr. Connerly..He can be defended, but the bottom line is He chose to register his firm with that title. Concession or not its hypocritical. It totally speaks against his cause…Shade tks for the link…
It seems to me if I’m reading your blog and all the post correctly that the problem is still black and white..The way i understood the affirmative action plan is that it was for ALL minorities. It just goes to show that we as people still have issues when it comes toblack and white.
Had it not been for the comments posted by Thomas you wouldnt even have heard a hispanic voice in the matter.
And in response to JMK, who posted this
Do you think “black, brown, or yellow†would’ve devised a system of preferences for a racial minority within their midsts?
No, neither do I
What do you mean by that?? Is there a certain race that’s qualified to make decisions that may be tough and others would simply take advantage of the what they have and do nothing? Thats sure sounds like what youre implying..But thats ok, I’m sure you didnt mean it that way….
Comment by eric — 01.30.07 @ 6:23 pm
It’s very clear what I meant, Eric.
I suggest re-reading it again if you’re really unsure.
AA was a program devised by whites (the overwhelming majority of Americans, over 70%, fall into that group) that has become a preferential policy that gives advantage to other races in both College admissions and employment.
I’ll ask it again, Do you think a “black, brown or yellow” (your description of the races) would devise a program that would give preferential treatment to another group (whites for instance)?
As I said…neither do I.
Race/gender preferences are discriminatory and the government has no Constitutional authority to discriminate either in favor or against any racial group.
Before AA the federal government never did.
There’s absolutely no moral or ethical grounds upon which race/gender preferences can be defended.
That’s the unenviable position that defenders of race/gender preferences find themselves in.
Comment by JMK — 01.30.07 @ 8:51 pm
1) Do you loath government-mandated, lowered-standards policies like race preferences as much as I do?
Re-write as: 1) Do you loath affirmative action as much as I do?
Answer: No. In fact, the way you put it is a false characterization of affirmative action. The old AT&T, old Baby Bells, Bell Labs, IBM, DuPont, Allstate, etc, are examples of affirmative action policies. So are the companies that provided work/study opportunities to Florida A&M business students.
When I went on a campus visit to UVa, we dropped by the admissions office. A woman looked at the application on file and came out smiling. She said she could type up the admittance letter on the spot if they could get the application fee. Some how that had gotten lost or was not mailed with the application.
When the RA gave me my schedule, I compared it to other engineering students and realized my course load was too easy. UVa claimed students from Baltimore didn’t do well at the school so I was in a “transitition program” which was actually a semsester remedial program. Had I attended VaTech, RIT, Pitt School of Engineering, Renseler, or any school in the Univ. of Maryland system, I would have gone in as a sophomore. Instead, UVa wanted me to take a step back.
I took a placement test that was designed to show were I “lacked skills.” I finished in about 1/2 hour. I was the first to finish. The proctor asked how I did. (I was already known because I made a fuss about being placed in the transition program). I told her that I got all of it right. It turned out I missed 1 question. I placed out and enrolled in the right classes.
I graduated for 4 years even though I was an athelete.
I was told I got in with the benefit of affirmative action because I was Black. That’s fine by me. My tests were scored the same as everyone else’s. In fact, I NEVER heard of “grading on the curve” before college. Additionally, my wife, a Howard Univ. grad, told me that in Howard’s school of business, there was no curve.
My first out of college job I was aided by affirmative action. Again, cool with me. I gained experience and used it as a stepping stone.
BTW, CEO claims that UVa shows preference for Blacks and calls it unfair. Meanwhile, UVa’s Black graduation rate is statistically the same as whites.
2) If not, why do you believe race preferences are necessary in America?
My mother and sisters were maids for awhile. My mother finished her working career as a nurse. She wasn’t allowed to “move up” in her field until the 70s. Before that, she helped train white women who later were above her. When she retired, her social security benefits and retirement benefits were based on her salary. Her salary was stunted by legal discrimination. She still is “feeling” the affects. As I help her now, I’m “paying” for the past discrimination against her.
If you want to “fix” it, get rid of AA for white women.
Comment by DarkStar — 01.30.07 @ 10:02 pm
AA was a program devised by whites (the overwhelming majority of Americans, over 70%, fall into that group) that has become a preferential policy that gives advantage to other races in both College admissions and employment.
It was devised by a Black Republican in the Nixon administration.
It was bastardized by white politicians in congress, Southern Dems if I remember correctly, to include white women to make it “easier” to pass.
Comment by DarkStar — 01.30.07 @ 10:04 pm
Hi LaShawn,
I have never had any type of white guilt since I didn’t own a business or anything. I grew up with Black people, went to school and had friends. I don’t remember any racial probs when I was in high school. That was over 22 yrs ago though. They were always held to the same standards as whites in public schools. I never had a problem with them.
About 3 1/2 yrs ago, I had a dream of Jesus Christ teaching me how to pray. I was just a little girl in this dream. About 30 minutes later, I suffered a heart attack which should have been fatal. Jesus intervened on my behalf and kept me alive.
There are things in the Bible that people need to understand, especially Christians. Jesus Christ did not Judge people by their flesh. He came to save the world so that ALL people would believe in him and have everlasting life. When is everyone going to wake up and realize that our skin color is only “flesh”. The flesh profits nothing, it’s our spirit that gives life. John 6:63 He will judge us all by what’s in our hearts and minds. All people of all races will have the same standards with the Lord God almighty. John 14:21-24
The Lord God will not discriminate against anyone who does his will and keeps his commandments. He was obedient unto death on that cross so that anyone who called upon him would be saved and their sins forgiven. See James 2:1-13
I have also come to a full understanding of what James 3:1-18 is too.
Comment by Sherry — 01.30.07 @ 10:09 pm
Annie, I enjoyed your post. And I agree with what you say about the laziness of white guilt. I’ve been turning over in my mind some things the preacher said last Sunday that ticked me off, and wondering exactly why, and I think what you said puts in the last piece of the puzzle for me.
Comment by Laura(southernxyl) — 01.30.07 @ 10:21 pm
Here is a good assessment of what “white guilt” really is:
http://www.vdare.com/sailer/070102_obamania.htm
It’s important to understand, however, that White Guilt is very different from, say, Catholic Guilt, which consists of straightforward feelings of personal moral failure.
In comparison, I don’t recall ever meeting any white person who personally felt guilty for the troubles of African-Americans. But I’ve known many whites who want to loudly blame other whites for black difficulties.
Some whites at least heap guilt upon their own ancestors, but many who publicly proclaim the reality of White Guilt aren’t averse to noting that their own forefathers arrived at Ellis Island long after slavery was over.
In other words, White Guilt is just another ploy in the Great American White Status Struggle. Minorities are merely props for [whites] asserting moral superiority over other whites.
Comment by Shade — 01.31.07 @ 12:51 am
I don’t believe in white guilt. I think the people that have it are twisted in some unholy fashion. It’s not healthy.
When I was 17 and in the military all of my mentor’s were young black non coms. I was in awe of them and their professionlism. They were 20-30 years old, but man they had their stuff together. There was one bad apple that hated for for some unknown reason, and one of them was from Chicago and I couldn’t understand him the first time he spoke, but we became good friends.
Once I left the military that type of person seemed to disapear out of my life to be replaced by affirminative action babies.
One can tell the difference between the two sets of people. The military mentors I would trust them to operate on me 90 percent of the time, the affirminative action babies maybe 30 percent. There is something about affirminative actions that even the people benefiting from it doubt themselves. It’s not a recipe for success. Or maybe it has had it’s hayday and done the job it was supposed to do.
Comment by Jd — 01.31.07 @ 2:32 am
I think anyone seriously religious today and practicing would not see race in people but would see God. Variety is good. It keeps life interesting. It is better to put God before race. Sure there are some nasty white people out there, a lot of ignorant white people. How do you evangelize to these people that someone different is kind and good and worthy of respect, trade, and thanks? Well you have to shake their hand to start. And do it with an open heart.
The diversity camp of “people of color” like the Duke 88 need a different type of caring. Probably they need a majority of people to show them that they are wrong living in their isolated race towers. They need their towers to come down. They need to be pulled out of their dark caves so they can begin anew in a healthier life.
Comment by Jd — 01.31.07 @ 2:41 am
“In other words, White Guilt is just another ploy in the Great American White Status Struggle. Minorities are merely props for [whites] asserting moral superiority over other whites.”
There is a LOT of truth to that, imo. Most white proponents of ‘white guilt’ have a definite smuggness about it, and display no feelings of guilt on their own part. Have any of you ever seen video of those college orientation diversity classes so many colleges require of incoming freshmen nowadays?
But that’s not all there is to it. It also gives them a heck of a lot of power over the black population.
Comment by Stacey — 01.31.07 @ 3:00 am
Shameless panderers and manipulators, personified by the likes of Teddy Kennedy, have used white guilt for decades t