Update (1:47 p.m.): Commenter Duke writes:
“LaShawn, it’s much more insidious than you know. In all ‘Hispanic’ areas, where the stores, street vendors, and various other Hispanic entrepreneurs ply their trade they are required to ‘pay a tax’ to the gangs or get beaten, shot, etc. This tax acts to keep a class of people who would normally earn their way out of poverty mired in a lower class forever. MS-13 is actually an international terror group and Hispanics have been terrorized by this gang for four years. But if they sing they swing, as the saying goes.
“The race hustlers, almost always credit card liberals or professional agitators, have put up walls to protect the gangs. The now notorious Special Order 40, which is now used in every metro area, makes the police criminals if they demand proof of citizenship—asking for a valid driver license can be asking for proof of citizenship—or even look like they suspect anyone of being illegal. No searches of cars or trucks is possible so guns are trafficked back and forth across cities and states.”
————————————————————————————————-
International Gang Initiative
Los Angeles’s gang issues are now an international priority. LA mayor Antonio Villaraigosa said that “many gangs across North and Central America†originated in LA, so American taxpayers will be funding “transnational†anti-gang units in Central American countries.
Law enforcement officials met (are meeting?) to discuss what to do about hispanic gangs. Although several stories mention Asian, black, and white gangs (don’t laugh), we all know who’s causing the real trouble. I’m sure a fair number of hispanic gang members are illegal aliens, so kicking them out of the country should be a top priority. Since the federal government isn’t interested in enforcing immigration law, however, state and local governments have to take up the slack and deal with it.
From where I’m sitting, it’s vital that we get rid of thugs who aren’t even authorized to be here in the first place, but understandably, foreign law enforcement officials don’t want them, either. From the BBC:
The heads of the national police forces of several countries where gangs are prevalent, including El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras and Mexico are meeting officials from US drug enforcement agencies and the FBI…Some Central American officials have expressed concern about US methods of deporting gang members to countries where local authorities are unable to arrest them because they have committed no crime in their country of origin…Of the 120 people arrested in a recent anti-gang raid in El Salvador, 40 had been deported from the US at least once, the country’s police chief Rodrigo Avila-Aviles said.
I’m always suspicious of “international†efforts to do anything where the U.S. is involved. Inevitably, we end up paying the most money and bearing the heaviest burden. It sounds to me like Central American countries, where most illegal aliens hail from these days, don’t want the U.S. to enforce its own laws and kick illegal thugs out. If the criminals we deport have committed no crime in those countries, officials can’t hold them. Yes, that’s a problem, but those countries need to find a mechanism or loophole in the law to throw them in prison anyway. Problem solved!
What to do about the gangs? Villaraigosa parrots the same old line about the relationship between poverty and gangs. There is a correlation, but I think they need to drill down deeper and address other issues like fatherlessness and poor family formation , rather that focus on poverty per se. Plenty of people classified as poor according to federal guidelines don’t shoot people in the face and cut them up. (Not to say that all fatherless people commit crimes, but…you know what I mean. It’s something within the subculture itself.)
Then again, what do I know? I’m just a blogger. 
“Hate” and Unintended Consequences
One thing I find sort of funny about so-called hate crime laws is that in LA, the classes of people the laws were created to protect are committing the “hate†crimes.
I’m thoroughly convinced that hate crime laws were the product of a bunch of liberals sitting around scheming up a legal way to muzzle white people (or if that didn’t work, add more time to their sentences). Suddenly, “minorities†and homosexuals were “protected” against hurt feeings, and if white people committed crimes against these classes and thought nasty things about them because of their race or homosexuality, the crime was somehow worse.
In California, with blacks and hispanics killing each other, prosecutors are now faced with trying and jurors faced with judging members of two protected groups, with no white boogeyman in sight.
Charging a black person who attacks a white person or an hispanic person who attacks a black person with a “hate†crime is not what liberals intended when they wrote hate crime laws, but perhaps the unintended consequences will cause legislators to rethink these irrational thought crime measures and wipe them from the books.
Prediction: As liberals continue to watch their collective multicultural wet dream fade into an unsatisfying whimper, expect a push to repeal hate crime laws or re-write them to exempt “minorities” from prosecution under those laws.
Black Entrepreneur Hires Illegal Aliens
It’s good to know, perversely speaking, that white folks aren’t the only ones hiring illegal aliens. Green Forever Landscaping in Upper Marlboro, Maryland, owned by a black man named Nikita Floyd, hires illegal aliens. (Source) Another entry for WeHireAliens.com!
Floyd implies that his illegal alien employees are better workers than his black employees. I’ve heard other people say that, too. Regardless, what Floyd and countless others are doing is illegal, and I’m going to do my tiny part in the illegal “immigration” fight and submit his business to WeHireAliens. I heard the feds are monitering the site. Too bad “civilians” have to do the government’s job.
Sources:
- Targeting cross-border gangs
- Los Angeles police start most-wanted gangs list
- Study downplays link between area gangs, Central America
- Injunction unit is a good tool against gangs
(Photo sources: AP and Washington Post)
{ 51 comments }
What to do about the gangs? Villaraigosa parrots the same old line about the relationship between poverty and gangs. There is a correlation, but I think they need to drill down deeper and address other issues like fatherlessness and poor family formation , rather that focus on poverty per se. Plenty of people classified as poor according to federal guidelines dont shoot people in the face and cut them up.
I agree with this. Where I live, you have similar poverty among blacks and Hispanics, yet gang activity is much more prevalent in the Hispanic communities. Even among the Hispanic kids who are from stable homes, there is a tendency to admire gang culture and to emulate it even if they will never be actual members.
>>Too bad “civilians†have to do the government’s job.>>
But we _are_ the government…and the government is us! I disagree with you here – I think the shame is that the “civilians” and the government haven’t been working more hand in hand. Maybe this is a beginning…we shouldn’t be unrelated or opposing teams…
Gangs…my understanding is that they orignate and propagate in jails and prisons. Look at the beating up of that border patrol guard that occurred last week. Our prisons aren’t really under control. If the prisoners don’t join gangs, apparently they’re at real risk. Not only that, but one of the white gangs was arranging death hits on people outside the prison, including witnesses against them and lawyers/judges who were prosecuting them. Gangs are a form of terrorism – paralyzing people into inaction because of fear of harm to themselves or their family members. I don’t know if it will be possible to end this without the death sentence, but if so, it will have to be with solitary confinement of a _bunch_ of people. Maybe we can afford this cost, but I bet there are a lot of SA and CA countries that can’t. They’re going to have to kill them or they’ll take over. Oh yeah…Chavez already has.
That’s partly why I put civilians in quotes. The problem is that while we the people are paying for the government, it seems those running things don’t care that the majority of “the people” want something done about illegal “immigration.” We’re represented by people who pay lip service to “tough” border enforcement.
These gangs are a threat to the whole country. I have read where they are spreading out across several states. Our government, including President Bush, is directly responsible for this out of control problem by his refusal to protect our borders from illegal immigrants.
We, the people, are practically powerless. The only thing that “might” change any of their minds is if we organized and marched down the streets en masse like the illegals did, but that’s not going to happen. It boggles my mind why FAIR or the Minutemen or similar groups don’t put together such an event.
The only thing we can do is vote and I swear that I will not vote for any candidate, either national or local, either Republican or Democrat, who supports amnesty. I have communicated this to all of my representatives and I urge you all to do the same. It is the only way we can get attention and I fear even then, they will not listen to us.
sorry, but illegal aliens are harder workers than a lot of naturalized white and black citizens…[gratuitous remarks deleted] illegal hispanic women are cleaning houses, helping in landscaping, and taking care of kids, and doing a damn good job.
When we contracted with a white redneck to paint our house, HE hired illegal aliens to help him out with the job, didn’t pay them, and didn’t even finish our job. Those illegals came back and we felt bad for them so we let them finish the work, and they did a much better job than the white man and for 25% of the price. Plus they didn’t whine, complain, and did their job peacefully. I was buying pizzas and coke for the white guy trying to placate him because he would get tired after 1 hour of labor.
We wouldn’t have an illegal alien problem if PEOPLE (WHITE AND BLACK) were willing to work. Forget jobs other people wont do, AMERICANS are plain lazy. AMerican’s aren’t willing to do back-breaking work. THey would rather sit in front of a computer, be a receptionist, a telemarketer, and follow celebrities and fantasize about living their lifestyle while they work.
[ditto]
Damn straight.
“I’m thoroughly convinced that hate crime laws were the product of a bunch of liberals sitting around scheming up a legal way to muzzle white people …”
LaShawn, with respect that’s an interesting ‘thoroughness’, is there evidence of this, as I hear it said often that ‘liberals’ are ‘anti-white’, yet I always reckoned such generalizing to be the equivalent of ‘Conservatives are anti-minorities’ – (cue pointing to extemists and suggesting that they speak for the ‘majority)?
The most effective way to get rid of the illegals and to remove the incentive for them to cross the border in the future is to fine any person employing them $10,000 per illegal per occurrence and pay 50 percent of that $10K to the person reporting it to authorities, 25 percent to the locals who investigate fine employers, then the remaining 25 percent would go to the federal government for border enforcement which they probably would no longer need because there would no longer be a job market for the illegals.
Gang Bangers, armed gang members, what to DO with them??
Simple, if no one WANTS them, and I can understand that, here’s a unique idea, they’re ILLEGAL and armed, THAT is an INVASION of this sovereign nation, SHOOT EM, drop em in their tracks…
Now, just wait, you’ll likely see alot of comments about the big bad racist, bigot, Nazi from Texas…
Let’s see just WHO is really willing to stand for America 1st…
‘Siyo Friends, good points all, however ‘We The People’ have been sold out by our politicians (Rep, Dem, Green, whoever) by the Executive, the Legislative and the Judicial. The best I see for the future of our homeland (whatever that means)
is learning to speak spanish and converting to Islam. Our government of, for and by the People have lost their collective spines. For fear of speaking the truth we lost our soul.
Bear
La Shawn:
The reason many people hire illegals is that there are NOT ENOUGH LEGAL IMMIGRANTS to do the job – the INS simply does not issue enough work permits, so people take what is available – illegals.
To require paperwork and workman’s comp and all the “legal” stuff for someone to do so small a job as paint a house is against all conservative principles of a free market. On the other hand, certainly anyone who hires workers for larger jobs should be required to do something as simple as match social security numbers; the “legwork” – checking birth status etcc. should be up to the INS.
Guess what – the INS isn’t up to this simple job.
The bottom line is that the marketplace is in action – if Black Americans don’t want Mexicans to “steal their jobs”, they have to compete – and work as hard as the Mexicans.
The reason many people hire illegals is that there are NOT ENOUGH LEGAL IMMIGRANTS to do the job – the INS simply does not issue enough work permits, so people take what is available – illegals.
What’s the unemployment rate for American-born black men, again?
LaShawn, it’s much more insidious than you know. In all “Hispanic” areas, where the stores, street vendors, and various other Hispanic entrepreneurs ply their trade they are required to “pay a tax” to the gangs or get beaten, shot, etc. This tax acts to keep a class of people who would normally earn their way out of poverty mired in a lower class forever. MS-13 is actually an international terror group and Hispanics have been terrorized by this gang for four years. But if they sing they swing, as the saying goes.
The race hustlers, almost always credit card liberals or professional agitators, have put up walls to protect the gangs. The now notorious Special Order 40, which is now used in every metro area, makes the police criminals if they demand proof of citizenship—asking for a valid driver license can be asking for proof of citizenship—or even look like they suspect anyone of being illegal. No searches of cars or trucks is possible so guns are trafficked back and forth across cities and states.
I know there are some bad cops out there but if we keep them under wraps this will only get worse until vigilante justice “starts happening.”
Shame on you for labeling this as Hispanic. You have totally sold out to economic greed (and East Coast) bias.
“If the criminals we deport have committed no crime in those countries, officials can’t hold them. Yes, that’s a problem, but those countries need to find a mechanism or loophole in the law to throw them in prison anyway. Problem solved!.”
I take you seriously, since you take yourself so. therefore, I take this statement at face value. Why would you expect the other nations to do what the U.S. won’t do? If the Gangs ARE breaking laws in the U.S., why are we deporting them instead of executing them for committing murder? We executed Tookie Williams without batting an eye; last time I checked these South American and Mexican gangs aren’t trying to stop any kids from joining them at all. Why don’t they treat these guys like they treated Tookie? what is the problem, is their skin too light for the sleeper solution?
Nikita Floyd makes me ill. The man pays $10/hour and no benefits, which is so far beneath the prevailing wage it is ridiculous. If he were in Ohio maybe but the D.C. area? What’s more is he makes no bones about not hiring blacks actually insinuating that we do not work hard. No, we aren’t stupid. $10/hour for work that labor intense, in an area with that standard of living is unacceptable. I had to hire people in at $6.75/hour and you know what I got? $6.75/ hour employees. You get what you pay for. There is a simple fact that illegals aren’t patriotic enough to fix their own countries and Americans are too greedy to pay a real wage. They are the perfect couple.
The reason many people hire illegals is that there are NOT ENOUGH LEGAL IMMIGRANTS to do the job – the INS simply does not issue enough work permits, so people take what is available – illegals.
An outright lie. There is not a cap on the number of H-2B work permits. To get a permit you have to go through a process. The process reveals that the employer advertising jobs paying far below the prevailing wage, opps! That is why illegals are here not because the system is “broken” the system has not been enforced.
The bottom line is that the marketplace is in action – if Black Americans don’t want Mexicans to “steal their jobsâ€, they have to compete – and work as hard as the Mexicans.
Frank-
What is a Black job? Last time I checked, Jim Crow was over and Blacks had the “legal” right to compete for any job that is available. Are you insinuating that a labor intensive job is a BLACK job? Also, are you stating that Blacks don’t work hard? Hmmm, if that was the case, slavery would have been pointless….
Nicole, I have to agree. Furthermore, I take issue with commentors who think illegal immigrants are the only ones who can clean a house or landscape yards or take care of kids (#6) since this white woman has done all that at the same time holding a full time job and I’m far from unique. It’s plain irritating to hear such claptrap. The difference is we (legal citizens of all races) do all of that while paying taxes to support illegal immigrants who leach off our hard earned social services and have the nerve to steal our identities.
I would like to explore the notion that gang behavior is related in some way, however esoteric, to collectivized ideology in which individuals get their identity from “the group” rather than from their actions as individuals. While there is an obvious connection to poverty in the sense that a disadvantaged youth may not perceive his/her value as an individual, in truth, many Hispanic cultures revolve around group connectedness and patronage. As much as the world likes to bash whites for the good ole boy network, it does not compare to much of what we see in other cultures…..
I would like to explore the notion that gang behavior is related in some way, however esoteric, to collectivized ideology in which individuals get their identity from the group rather than from their actions as individuals.
Aryan Nations, KKK, the Mafia, Hells Angels.
All gangs.
The topic you want to broach is too deep for blog commentary. If you really are interested and not just wanting to make a conservative point, do the research on the dynamics of gangs. The culture it is about is not what you imply.
Dark Star;
There is frankly no need to examine what you think my comments “may imply” and I would far prefer to have responses to what I have stated.
The percentage of whites that are involved in gangs is so small that most of us have never met anyone (or even know of anyone) with a gang affiliation (I certainly haven’t), so I am not at all sure what your point may be. Perhaps my utter lack of “contact with gang members” fuels my ignorance. Or, perhaps half the people I have known in my life are seething with hidden hatreds and are closet gang members (though obviously skilled at keeping their hatreds hidden)…
Please feel free to “enlighten” me about gang ideology and sociology and what people are “really” thinking…
Boy oh boy, It’s scary ya know, I think the gov should look at how these gangs treat their own people, imagine what they’d do to us. All I’m saying is build the darn fence and start deporting the illegal criminals. Let the legal (in process to to become legal)tax paying, English speaking stay. Hey I don’t care where ya come from, as long as you know how to behave, speak English and pay taxes, too.
Sadly, there aren’t that many “conservative” politicians seeking the 2008 presidency who actually respect the rule of law with their stance on illegal immigration. The law expressly forbids illegal immigration, but our politicians and people in power who sadly can’t get enough of the cheap labor continue to apply their own beliefs in interpreting the law.
All this talk about Guilliani infuriates me with his pro-illegal stance. As a conservative, I could not vote for Guilliani because I believe in the “rule of law.” Not only does Guilliani disrespect America’s illegal immigration laws, but Guilliani obviously has no respect for the “rule of law” when he moves his mistress into his home where his wife is already living without filing for a divorce. Not only is that disrespectful to his family, but it is also disrespectful to the rule of law.
Illegal immigrants work for less than the market rate. Employers don’t pay taxes on them. That’s why they get the job.
They depress wages. If they were not a factor, wages would go up and the jobs would be attractive to Americans and legal residents. LaShawn even cited evidence of that a week or two ago — when some of the meat and poultry plants were busted, they had to raise wages and hire Americans. Guess what? Americans are willing to work in poultry-processing plants.
30 years ago, the average wage in the meat-packing plants was about $17/hour. Now it’s about $11/hour. What’s changed? The fact that the plants hire illegal immigrants. Show me an American who won’t do that job for $17/hour. (http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/250/meat-packing.html)
The percentage of whites that are involved in gangs is so small that most of us have never met anyone (or even know of anyone) with a gang affiliation (I certainly haven’t), so I am not at all sure what your point may be.
The same holds for Blacks, so I don’t understand the reason for that comment.
Please feel free to “enlighten†me about gang ideology and sociology and what people are “really†thinking…
Some join gangs for protection purposes. Some join because it is the only structure they have. Some join because they are raised in that life. Some join because of a lack of family. Some join for economics.
Your comment about collectivism:
to collectivized ideology in which individuals get their identity from “the group†rather than from their actions as individuals.
Ain’t a part of it. If you are really interested, delve into the research. Or not.
I don’t understand the reason for that comment.-DarkStar
The comment was simply an attempt to bring perspective in a statistical oriented sense to your list of gangs – all white.
Last year, I was reading a research paper by a British sociologist who studied prison behavior in the US for five years. He stated that whites were at a disadvantage in the prison system, overall, because a far higher percentage of incarcerated whites were not gang involved upon arrival, and thus lacked a key protective element, though they often became gang involved in prison.
You cite poverty as a reason for kids joining gangs, but there are far far more poor kids who do not join gangs than those who do. Poverty is more of a contributing element, but certainly is not a cause, per se, at least in the way that I think of it.
I don’t fundamentally disagree with any of the reasons that you cited for joining gangs (and have actually have researched the issue) but see most of them as a subset of “a lack of a solid sense of self” so I do not know that we are actually in disagreement.
The only category that does not fall under that rubric would be those who joined for reasons of protection which is a whole other ballgame. I interviewed an extraordinary young man in this situation and he danced a difficult tightrope.
We can argue all day long about what comes first, the chicken or the egg, but at the end of the day, I think that there are some cultural elements that are more conducive to gang formation than others.
Jan:
You are dead-on, and have brought up some points that even most Conservatives won’t touch. My Dad’s side of the family settled in Mexico in the late 1800s, and many of them are still there. Even by the honest admission of a lot of Mexicans I’ve hears through the years, the main downfall of their people is “macho” pride (worship of “tough” manhood lived out by drinking, fighting, adultery, gambling, etc.), tribalism(racism), women looked upon as sexual/menial servants, on and on it goes. These elements have been firmly entrenched in Mexico for a very long time(I do know for a fact, however, that a good number of Mexicans don’t conform to them) – before the arrival of the Spanish, so even with their largely unjust dealings with the Mexican Indians, they didn’t exactly come over and ruin an idyllic society. Again, many Mexicans will tell you that the pressure to “fall into the group” is very high, especially among the males. This isn’t something I read in some “right-wing” social commentary; it’s what I have observed all my life, along with my Grandfather and 2 Great-grandfathers.
Jan,[you] brought up some points that even most Conservatives won’t touch – Jim
Jim, I seldom see an idea that is untouchable…much to the dismay of some.
Jan, we need more of your kind of courage in our country’s leadership, at all levels. All this effeminite “political correctness” is doing nothing but opening the door for a massive human and cultural bloodbath.
“effeminite political correctness”
Jim, Effeminite(sic)/femininity has nothing to do per se with what you broadly call ‘political correctness’.
One can approach gang-culture with stick or carrot/brains, but I recommend both. Don’t forget though, that gangs/gang culture prey on their own ‘race’ (as some like to call) firstly, just as the Mafia preyed on American Italian communities, and gangs of African extraction prey on the ‘blacks’ around them.
A ‘gang’ subculture is not really a racial ‘type’, it’s usually a tribal uber-macho subculture within a larger culture that is hardly related.
One can’t feasibly point at ‘whiteness’ to explain or typify Neo-Nazis/Mafia/Sicilian/Polish gangs, Swedish death-metallers/hells angels, just as one can’t point at ‘Hispanic’ or ‘Black’ as the reasons behind gangs of such ‘extraction’.
Violent subcultures are venomous and problematic, and they will not improve by broad-brush ‘race’ or ‘culture’ fingers being pointed. It might be what you call ‘politically correct’ to ‘understand’ a problem, but hate does not shrink from hate. The light of truth on any matter can only lead to better solutions. If anyone cares to know the truth about gang-cultures rather than just proving ‘racial’ stereotypes/conservative talking points, then there is maybe much to discover, and much to solve.
As for me, I am not understanding with violent gangs, I’m sure there are valid and truthful socio/psych studies of why and where they happen to be created/bred…but…I just want them all in chains for a very long time.
I want them enjoying prison-labour directed towards rebuilding the stuff they destroy, including neighbourhoods. They are just dumb, selfish, urban, macho scumbags, and could be put to much better use.
What’s wrong with that?
Actually, John, “effeminite” is a descriptive used to describe passive, feminine males, not women (where femininity rightly belongs). And I did not say that Hispanic gangs were a product of their race, but weak points in Latin American culture. Didn’t you read the part of my post which stated that many Mexicans went against these various negative aspects? All cultures have good and bad points, and refusal to address the aspects of any culture which are detrimental to that, and other cultures is a step outside of reality. Like I said, the hardest words of critique of problems in Latin American culture
I’ve heard have come from Hispanic, mainly Mexican people themselves. Go right ahead and think of what I’ve said as Archie Bunkeresque hot air, but as one who has roots in Mexico, I can speak with at least some semblance of knowledge.
Were they working on that huge fence the US is trying to build? That would be so awesome!
#28 Jim,
More likely, the Spanish brought this sense of machismo and treatment of women with them to latin America. Recall, Spain was dominated by Islam for 700 years. Islam left its mark indelibly in Spanish culture in the form of its mistreatment of women, neglect of disciplining boys, machismo, and so on. All of these pathologies we see in latin American culture are more likely passed on from Islamic culture to Spanish culture. Boys in Muslim families are not raised with any restraint whatsoever, and Islamic culture foments a tribal mentality, as it is really Arab culture.
Excellent point. Didn’t God pronounce that Ishmael would be “a wild donkey of a man, his hand against every man and every man’s hand against him; and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers”? Gen. 16:11-12
You’d be surpised…
I know so many CON-servatives businessmen and women down here who hire illegals.
Common phrases I hear from them, “Americans arent coming to work for me.” “Americans dont work as well.”
I know a man who runs a huge warehouse down in Chester, SC who hires illegals. This guy is a conservative if you’ve ever seen one. He says the same thing, “they work harder.”
I say a change in the law is in order.
I understand the argument against illegal immigration, I also understand laws can be changed and I’ll support anyone who give these people a path to citizenship, ala the Mccain-Lieberman plan, (pay back taxes, learn english), etc.
Its very very difficult for me to be against someone risking life and limb to come here and WORK, and then see Billy-Bob, who REFUSES to work, on the corner begging for some beer money.
#34
This it what warms me to patriarchal religions!
But I think you will find, Walt, that Catholicism contributes a large part of Latino/Chicano cultural ‘machismo’ characteristics.
If you have proof that it, instead, is a hangover from Middle-Ages Islam, then I too would be interested to read that. I have no conflict of interest in weighing religious effects on cultures so I will look at any evidence from an arguably objective point. Also do you have similar proof that the Mafia’s misogyny and brutalism comes from ancient Islam…?
An irony I find saddening is that many latinas are now turning to Islam as a route out of the Latino/Catholic patriarchy.
A case of out of the patriarchal pan, into the, er, patriarchal pan?
I would also add that just 0.37% of latinos are agnostic or atheistic
http://www.facsnet.org/issues/faith/espinosa.php
whether this is significant depends upon one’s viewpoint, maybe.
Regards,
John
RRRAAWWWKK GANG CONTROL NOT GUN CONTROL BAN GANGS NOT GUNS RRRAAWWKKK
JohnD,
I think Catholicm has more of an influence on the “morida” aspect of their culture-the bribes Mexicans pay almost everywhere to get things moving along or to avoid arrest.
Napoleon Bonaparte observed that “Europe ends at the Pyrenees” when noting that Spanish culture was so little like European culture. When the Muslims were finally kicked out of Spain in 1492, a nominal Roman Catholicism was imposed on the whole country. The Roman Cahtolic church is the great chameleon – it simply molds to whatever the going culture already believes. Local gods are replaced with patron saints of various things,etc. It tends not to replace the culture already in place – just worsen it, if anything.
In this day and age, with the Catholic church teaching that Allah and Yahweh are the same God, its little surprise that Latinos are converting to Islam.
As to your point about the Mafia – Sicily was conquered by the Muslims, which is why they’re darker than northern Italians, who look Germanic.
So let me get this right, you are saying that the Mafia is because of Muslims?
Mafia comes from the arabic word for “refuge.”
“Machismo” is from Islam???????
OH GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!
Patriarchy is across all “major” religions, which includes Christianity, or is the STRONG belief that women belong at home and that women don’t belong in the pulpit not tied to patriarchy?
#42
Christianity exhorts men to love their wives as “Christ loves the church and gave himself up for her…” We are to love our wives sacrificially, even to the point of death. Women are co-heirs in Christ’s kingdom and are given equal status. They are not allowed to preach or be the head of the family because of the creation order and the fact that they are the “weaker vessel.”
In Islam, women are property and are considered to be made inferior to men. For more on this, read “The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam” or just read the Quran and Sahih al Bukhari and the biography of Mohammed by Ibn Ishaq. It’ll take you a while, but thanks for the moral equivalence.
#41. This place is often an education. I wondered why our hispanic son was slightly unruly/uncommunicative as a teen, it’s because of his 7thC Arab influence!
Maybe my (white)parents were right, Mediterranean people aren’t to be trusted, they are ‘nearly black’ after all?
#44 Your arrogance is breathtaking.
I was making a point about culture, not race. You’re the resident atheist, aren’t you? I thought I detected a Dawkinsesque snark in your tone. Maybe your son was unruly because his dad barely acts older than a teenager himself.
Walt Schulte says:
“Your arrogance is breathtaking.”
Have you considered that your humour was lacking?
As for the rest of the screed directed at me (not my comments), you’ll have to try elsewhere to get someone to answer personal insults, no matter how far off base. Please try and stick to the topic.
Right. You backhandedly label me a racist and when I return fire you can’t take it. In typical atheistic fashion, you try the reductio ad absurdum approach rather than actually addressing my points, then you accuse me of dodging yours. Later, Dawkins.
Calm down Walt, no-one calle dyou a racist, it wa my parent’s that stated that Italians and Spaniards were more ‘black than white’, a notion I find to be rather far-fetched and nonsensical, like the suggestion that Italians and Modern-day Hispanic Central American ‘machismo’ being a ‘Muslim’ thing.
I did address your points re ‘Machismo’ (patriarchy) and the larger influence of Catholicism than distant ancient Saracens, but I will not return the insults, that’s not my style, sorry.
Nikita Floyd saves so much money hiring these guys instead of local black citizens that he drives a late-model bright yellow Ferrari. I guess we know the real cost of supporting one’s community and giving something back–a flashy Italian sports car.
GANG CONTROL NOT GUN CONTROL
Very interesting piece. I want to look further into this issue.
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