This post is dedicated to every black liberal who has ever said I never write anything positive about black folks or offer solutions to problems disproportionately impacting blacks. Most of the time, positive news and solutions are implicit in my posts, though sometimes I’m explicit.
For instance, suggestions like, “Get married and build a nest before you have children” or “Take responsibility for your own lives and accept the consequences of your actions” or “Take responsibility for your children’s education” apparently are not detailed enough for some people. And I never mention white people or what they ought to do to help blacks or what they owe blacks, which seems to tick people off the most. Since I can’t please everyone, I aim to please no one.
When I read “Black Parents Seek to Raise Ambitions” this morning in the Washington Post, I almost cried. Why? An excerpt:
Twelve-year-old Alex Carter is an A student who loves science and reads a book a week. So it surprised his father when he announced last year that he didn’t want to enroll in an honors class that his teacher recommended for the following term.
“That class is for the smart people, the nerds,” Alex told him. His father replied, “Well, who are you?”
Alex is a junior league football player, an avid golfer and a lifelong suburbanite. He’s also one of only a handful of African American students in his seventh-grade class at Eagle Ridge Middle School in Ashburn. He dreams of becoming a professional athlete like his dad, Tom, who played cornerback for the Washington Redskins. But as he nears his teenage years in a predominantly white school in Loudoun County, his parents are concerned that he could abandon academic pursuits because he thinks they are better left to his white classmates.
How did young Alex come to believe academic pursuits are for white people? Blame the subculture or gangsta culture or the mainstream media or the rain, if it makes you feel better. The point is that the kid’s head was in the wrong place. But instead of invoking the “legacy of slavery” or classroom bias or a lack of government funds (although some urban school districts tend to have the country’s highest per pupil expenditures) or any excuse with the word “racism” attached to it, Alex’s parents did their job: took matters into their own hands and pre-empted a potentially huge problem:
That’s why Tom and Renee Carter joined last year with about 15 families, including the parents of nearly every black male sixth-grader, to push their sons to graduate on time in 2012 with options for the future and without lowering their expectations or test scores along the way. They call it Club 2012.
The group holds monthly house meetings, twice-weekly homework sessions, “rap sessions” between fathers and sons, and social or community service activities. The parents speak often with teachers and administrators, many of whom come to parent-organized events.
A mainstream media story about black parents taking responsibility for their children’s education without any mention of the same old tired historical grievances rhetoric or guilt-tripping whites for their help or their money…
Happy Friday! 
Groups like Club 2012 should spring up all over the place. Black parents in Loudoun, Virginia, banded together to combat what they saw as a self-perpetuating and self-defeating cycle of underachievement. The group should serve as a model for all parents, and I hope readers send the story link to others.
Groups like Club 2012 work only if parents, not the government, care about how their kids are doing in school and do something about academic issues. Narrowing the academic achievement gap will take more than complaining and demanding money. It will take the hard and sometimes grudging work of parents getting in their kids’ business, charting their progress in school, and asking others for help, not demanding it, if they can’t manage it on their own.
There is nothing wrong with asking people for help, but these days, certain folks don’t understand the difference between asking and demanding. It may shock some of you to read this, but nobody owes you a darn thing.
But I digress. These parents saw a need and came together to fulfill that need. They understand how powerful the most negative aspects of the subculture are, and they’ve committed themselves — not the government’s money or promises — to making sure their children don’t succumb to anti-intellectualism.
Kids in Club 2012 are getting etiquette lessons (underrated but very important social skills) and going on field trips, and parents help one another keep up with what the kids are doing. As a result of hands-on intervention, grades have gone up.
I would guess that most parents in Club 2012 are married. Long time readers know how I feel about marriage, how much I respect the institution, especially the benefits it bestows on children. Groups like Club 2012 can and do exist with single parents, but I’m certain that a group comprised of stable, married members has more resources and is more effective.
Marriage is good not just for children, but for entire communities. The social capital, if you will, that results from living in strong, stable communities with fathers in the household can’t be simulated or replaced by so-called male role models or “big brother” programs. If you don’t have a residential father or strong, decent men in the family, such programs are better than nothing. Whether you agree with the data or not, children are better off living with married parents.
Let’s recap: Get married and build a nest before you have children to give them the best start in life, take responsibility for your own lives and accept the consequences of your actions, and take responsibility for your children’s education and form community groups like Club 2012. That wraps up my positive-news-about-blacks-and-solutions-to-problems post.
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Thank you for posting that. As someone who is studying to become a HS teacher, one of the things I worry about is students who have given up and parents that don’t care. I sincerely hope a group like this springs up in the Las Vegas Valley. One thing that many people miss is that parental involvement is key to getting kids to work in school. If the parents don’t care then neither will the kids.
La Shawn, you just made my day!
A super post. I’m a committed homeschooler but I have to say a hearty “well done” (well-doing?) to these parents - taking responsibility for their children’s education even though they delegate some aspects of it. Would that more parents realize that the responsibility rests with the parents - schools are not something you just turn your child over to, and forget doing anything else.
Thanks for this post. I’m encouraged by it.
La Shawn, thanks for posting this encouraging story. Children of all races would benefit from the kind of parental involvement you describe. The only thing that would make it better will be when we get to the point where parents can join in mutual support of their school-age children without regard to race! What a great day that will be.
B-squared,
I think you miss the point a little. These black parents joined together because they knew what their kids faced was particular to their race. There is a subculture out there that tells black kids that it’s okay to be stupid. There is also the well-documented fact that public school systems just give up on young black men from the age of 12 or so.
So, these parents did something about it. They weren’t being exclusive by doing it. They were fighting for the future of their kids. White and Asian kids just don’t get the same message from the culture that failure to obtain the tools necessary to operate within the broader culture isn’t cool or down, or keeping it real.
I applaud these parents. And, as an aside, LaShawn, the reason that so many “black liberals” as you put it get on you, is that you have the ear of the mainstream. You shape opinion. There is a certain responsibility that goes along with that. I keep that in mind for the screenplays I write. I keep that in mind when I walk out the door every morning. If you want to walk down the “Charles Barkley” road and don’t think what you write has some bearing, so be it. But, it does.
#3.
“The only thing that would make it better will be when we get to the point where parents can join in mutual support of their school-age children without regard to race! What a great day that will be.”
Three cheers for that comment. Fortunately, that is what usually happens in this day and age, in my experience. Race ‘politics’ is exaggerated by pundits, press and political careerists, hence the broad generalizations from right and left idealogues.
There are ‘normal’ people out here, who don’t live to prove ‘Them’ (liberals, conservatives, whites, blacks, take your pick)to be inferior or dragging us all to hell in a handbasket. Most people just get along with their lives, and their children are schooled and succeed regardless of skin colour, of course.
I notice that in the US, where education and social function is a problem it gets called a ‘black problem’. In the UK, for instance, there are areas like this in Manchester or Glasgow, and even when I was growing up in the seventies, such things were never called ‘white problems’.
Now we just call people like that ’scummers’ or ‘chavs’, it’s not ‘colour’ specific. I would really like to know why America is so fixated on race (specifically the pro-’whites’ and pro-’blacks’)
(To the room) Do you think it’s a political thing? Are pro-whites usually Conservative? Are pro-blacks usually liberal?
Regards,
John
I suggest reading Thomas Sowells’ “White Liberals/Black Rednecks” (or is it the other way around I forget). I gave my copy to my teacher daughter and don’t think she’s read it.
Hasn’t Jack and Jill of America done this for decades? Such actions and organizations are not uncommon with MIDDLE CLASS BLACKS, but the whole group is generally defined by lower class blacks and mainstream black political and social activists. The BIG group is rarely represented.
As a parent of honor students I think you’ve missed the point completely. Its not about being white, black, Hispanic, Asian; its about not being labeled a “nerd”. The young man said it himself and it doesn’t require reading in between the lines. It is what it is. It’s not cool to be smart.
Thats what we as parents, and educators need to change. It is COOL to be smart! There are wonderful programs available for smart kids. But we need to not let the kids themselves label themselves as “nerds”.
It was years before I had the self-esteem to call myself a nerd.
Some of my best friends are geeks and nerds. I am one. I married one. Most of the geeks and nerds I know are proud of it. Why is being a nerd so horrible? What my mom told me is true–the older you get, the more you will be hanging out with people who are smart and who don’t view that as a bad thing.
My aunt, a Sunday school teacher in an area of rural California, takes teen girls to planned parenthood for birth control. She knows they are going to have sex any way. Neighborhood community groups can do a lot of good.
JohnD #5
“Are pro-whites usually Conservative? Are pro-blacks usually liberal?”
We’re not allowed to be pro-white in America. That would brand someone as racist, KKK, skinhead, neo-Nazi scum. People are only allowed to be pro black, Hispanic, etc, as long as it’s NOT white.
That said, conservatives are usually color-blind, and liberals are usually race-conscious. La Shawn has addressed the question many times about whether race-consciousness is really “pro” whatever race they’re referencing. If liberals constantly tell blacks that they’re pitiful, helpless souls who need and deserve extra-special help to get by in life, that may do more harm than good, and in my book, it’s not pro-black at all.
Awesome post. Thank you for sharing your intelligent, honest comments with the world. I hope the world is listening.
Re: #8: “The young man said it himself and it doesn’t require reading in between the lines. It is what it is. It’s not cool to be smart.”
Hubs & I transferred DS#2 to a high school in another district. I ~knew~ we had made the correct choice when his HS Counselor told him, “Here, it’s considered cool to be smart, to do your homework, and to behave.”
It may take a village to raise a child, but I ~pick~ the village!
Blacks do better in athletics than whites.
Black sprinters come from one part of Africa, black marathoners from another part.
Natural variation due to environment and natural selection.
Now for the bomb shell.
In academics it goes like this:
Askenazic Jews>Whites>Blacks
American Enterpise Institute
We are short changing men and especially black men by making sports participation by men and women numerically equal. No law can overcome the facts of natural talent. Blacks are the top talents in sports. Ashkenazic Jews are the top talents in academics. It is in the DNA. You can’t fix that by passing laws.
Also note that few women are in the highest reaches of academic ability because although their cognitive ability is close to men their natural variation is less. The are going to be more male geniuses and morons due to the spread of variation.
Africana has some very good stuff on natural talent in sports.
Race and Sports.
La Shawn
link
Race in athletics:
link
Race in Academics
link
Another outstanding, well-written thought provoking post! I enjoyed it very much. Thanks La Shawn.
“Conservatives are usually color-blind.” Are you kidding? Both parties are well aware of the politics of race and use them to full advantage.
Conservative campaigners make it a point to not appear too sympathetic to blacks at the risk of alienating their base. Liberals do much the same thing when they appear at black churches.
I think “color-blind” is the wrong terminology. Color-conscious is more accurate. We have to keep in mind what created this obsession with race. Slavery, the “one drop” rule, favoring light-skinned blacks over dark-skinned ones.
This really is history and stating that it occurred does not mean I’m “obsessed with race” as I’m sure somebody will say. I just know how we got to this point. Are we getting better? Yes, to a degree.
Also, on another point, I have to agree with Shade. Middle-class blacks have been doing this kind of stuff for decades. That’s WHY they are who they are. This isn’t surprising for people who choose to be informed. If all you want to know about black people is stats on their repeat appearance on “COPS”, there seems to be a ton of places on the blogosphere to document that reality. That’s only a piece of the picture. As Shade says, why are we the only people who are defined by the minority? I don’t think white would like it if I defined them by the homeless winos I see at Park Street Station? Or, the Irish gangsters in South Boston?
“…make it a point to not appear too sympathetic to blacks…”
What sort of sympathy would this be? Just curious, since that seemed to be an interesting statement, but relatively unclear.
Redbeard,
What I mean by this is refusing to address the NAACP. When conservatives refuse to do so, it’s seen by whites as an act of courage. The degree to which the NAACP actually represents mainstream black thought is up for debate. But, they have historically been there for black people.
An example of a liberal espousing such “courage” is when Bill Clinton repudiated Sistah Souljah, a rapper who had a limited following in the black community. It was a test of Clinton’s purported centrist views that he could stand up to uppity blacks who have the nerve to state their opinions.
My town is pretty liberal and has a 20% black population. Our middle class blacks are mostly enrolled in private schools and go on to top colleges. The private schools bend over backward to pick up qualified minorities as do the colleges.
Our public high school has about 50% black enrollment in the ninth grade. The graduating class is about 35% black and about 75% of them are female.
In the 40+ years I have worked with this high school, I have never encountered a group of parents who had banded together to create anything remotely resembling Club 2012.
On the contrary, my experience has been with entitlement pimps who demand an outcome without regard to the effort expended.
The black peer pressure among black teens to drag each other down is a sad reality.
It is very lonely to sit as one of a few black achievers in an advanced class and be clucked over by “well-meaning” teachers and administrators. Sooner or later, every black “achiever” finds himself in the position of being the token representative of the race. Furthermore, the time comes when Affirmative Action singles out the black for favor that is strictly skin color based. So, now the kid has bucked the black trend and stuck a finger in the eyes of the other students. Wow! What a deal!!!
Club 2012 sounds like the kind of “support group” these kids need the most.
Heliotrope,
There are more groups like 2012 than you think. Especially in the Northeast and some of the South.
Angel, we’re going to have to disagree about the NAACP. In my opinion, under current leadership, it’s not an advocacy group for black Americans, but rather for extreme left-wing politics. As such, it makes little sense for a conservative to address the group, no matter what color he might be. Has nothing to do with sympathy.
The President has had extreme reluctance to speak to the NAACP, for good reason. When we have Julian Bond and Kweisi Mfume of the NAACP issuing statements like the ones below, I see little reason to address the group.
Mfume: “So, we’ve got a president that’s prepared to take us back to the days of Jim Crow segregation and dominance.”
Bond: “[Bush and the Republicans] preach racial equality but practice racial division. Their idea of equal rights is the American flag and Confederate swastika flying side by side.”
Bond: “Republicans appeal to the dark underside of American culture, to that minority of Americans who reject democracy and equality.”
Bond: “President Bush has selected nominees from the Taliban wing of American politics. He has appeased the wretched appetites of the extreme right wing. And he has chosen Cabinet officials whose devotion to the Confederacy is nearly canine in its uncritical affection.”
Hasn’t Jack and Jill of America done this for decades?
Shhh…. Don’t be talkin’ ’bout Black folks biznis in front of dem white folk…
Even if you are correct.
The black peer pressure among black teens to drag each other down is a sad reality.
It’s overhyped. This ‘Acting White’ Study shows why I state it is over hyped.
There are more groups like 2012 than you think. Especially in the Northeast and some of the South.
In the D.C. area, Activities by Concerned Black Men
Activities by 100 Black Men D.C. Chapter
Urban League D.C. Chapter
Redbeard,
Remember, I did say it was in dispute as far as whether or not the NAACP represents mainstream black thought. But, I guess you’re right. This is the president who likes to speak in front of hand-picked, camera-ready crowds. So, based on the statements of two people, you dismiss the other members. It’s a question of respect.
So, what was Reagan’s excuse for kicking off his re-election campaign in Philadelphia, Mississippi with no mention of the three civil-rights workers murdered there? That was the ultimate in racial politics.
And, it doesn’t seem to matter who leads the NAACP. Conservatives have always had a problem with the organization. Scan some issues of National Review from the 1950s and 1960s (arguably the time the NAACP did its’ best work) and you’ll see what I mean.
“Conservative campaigners make it a point to not appear too sympathetic to blacks at the risk of alienating their base.”
What a bunch of nonsense! In my experience, when ‘liberals’ attempt to analyze the reasoning behind conservative actions, they are correct about 2% of the time. (I assume you are a liberal because you quite evidently aren’t a conservative)
Does it never occur to you that perhaps the reasoning behind conservative political positions might be explained by the actual reasons conservatives give?
Perhaps conservatives aren’t so stupid as to think they benefit by the presence of a permanent underclass in America. Maybe, just maybe conservatives espouse the positions they do for the reasons they SAY they do, because they believe it will benefit America, and not for the nefarious racist reasoning ‘liberals’ are constantly impugning conservatives to have.
Sorry, but I’m just sick (AND tired) of being told that, as a member of that ‘conservative base’, I have secret racist reasons for my political positions. I think *I* know my reasoning better than you do.
YOU may not agree that ‘color-blind’ is the ideal goal. That’s fine. We can agree to disagree. We can debate it. Whatever. But I take umbrage at constantly being told that we are really lying, that’s not what we REALLY want, it’s all just a cover, etc. etc. Believe what you want to believe. Just quit telling me what I believe.
Stacey,
Didn’t you know only liberals care about minorities and us conservatives are too busy getting rich and finding new ways to keep ‘those people’ down to really care about anyone but ourselves?
OK it irritates me as well. Nearly as much as the words neocon and fundie do…
I am white. I try to be color blind — but I am not.
I am a woman. I try to treat men and women the same, but I don’t.
I am a conservative. I try to hear what liberals have to say, but I don’t.
I am a born-again Christian. I try to live up to the teachings of Jesus and Biblical instruction, but I don’t.
I am a flawed human being. All I can do each day is recognize that God wanted that other person here every bit as much as God wants me here. {Without a doubt if God wanted do get rid of anyone of us we would be gone before I could finish this sentence.}
I come to this blog because I love to read what other conservatives have to say. I work in DC and I hear more than enough from liberals, both black and white, each and every day.
I have no race preference when I come to this blog, I have a preference for conservative Christians with one of the best mixes of common sense and critical analysis and practical application or understanding on the Internet.
I read this in both LaShawn’s posts and the comments from her readers.
This isn’t a good “female” blog, this isn’t a good “black” blog, this isn’t a good “conservative” blog, this isn’t a good “Christian” blog.
THIS IS A GOOD BLOG! PERIOD.
I love how you two left out the other part of my post where I mention that liberal politicians do their own version of playing to their base. But, don’t let reality get in the way of a good pity party!
I love how you two impugn my motives by labelling me, but complain about being labelled. There are people in the conservative base who are clearly racists. These are the folks who belong to neo-Confederacy organizations who wish they had a time-machine to go back and change the outcome of The Civil War. Unless, to borrow a phrase from a commenter, they are a figment of my imagination.
Angel, there are some white people who are racial bigots, and who would love to go back to Jim Crow days. You think they are many, I think they are few, but they do exist. Ok, we agree on that. Now what? The legal work is done. And we can’t pass laws that will make everyone reasonable.
So, do we focus on the negative, bitterly lamenting the hearts-and-minds issues that remain and cannot be solved by government? Or do we go forward by focusing on the tremendous opportunities this country offers to everyone?
True conservatives believe the latter, and reject the racial pigeonholing promoted by the left in this country. True conservatives believe that everyone is capable of success, and that no one should be considered incompetent or in need of constant care because of race or ethnicity.
” I mention that liberal politicians do their own version of playing to their base”
I didn’t comment on this because it has nothing to do with labeling someone ‘racist’. Or are you saying that the Liberals would alienate their base by appearing to be ‘too sympathetic to blacks’?
I complained about being labeled ‘racist’. You say that impugns your motives. Okay, then. Clear it up for me. You said the Conservative base would be alienated. Are you aware of what the term ‘base’ means when used in this context? If you meant to say a few whacko’s would be alienated, then I guess you aren’t implying that most Conservatives are racist.
But then, that doesn’t fit into your little scenario, does it? Because if it was just a few wacko’s, then it wouldn’t be such a major concern for Conservative politicians.
P.S. I have a little clue for you and your comment about ‘folks who belong to neo-Confederacy organizations. They vote DEMOCRAT. They believe politicians are engaging in the same double-speak you think is going on..only they think it’s the Democrats who mean what YOU think the Republicans mean. If you don’t believe me, come on down south and do a little investigating.
Redbeard,
At what point do I say that I don’t believe the principles you state in your post? I’m educated, ambitious, hard-working and I’ve never taken a dime from anyone in my life. That does not mean that when race, which has been cynically exploited by the LEFT AND THE RIGHT, rears its’ head in discussion, I will not express my opinion on the state of race in this country. It’s funny that when I mention conservatives and liberals are equally guilty on this score, people come out of the woodwork to defend conservatives.
Angel, you say the left and the right are equally guilty of exploiting race. That is a reasonably arguable point and one that I would love to debate you on (for instance - give examples, please).
But no one is ‘coming out of the the woodwork to defend conservatives’ from the idea that they are equally guilty of ‘exploiting’ race. I am defending conservatives from your statements implying that the conservative base is racist in nature.
If you no longer want to advance this opinion, fine! Nothing would make me happier.
It’s funny that when I mention conservatives and liberals are equally guilty on this score, people come out of the woodwork to defend conservatives.
I do the same and for that reason, “conservatives” call me “liberal.”
Stacey,
Please, don’t try to “educate” me. I live in Boston. I’ve seen racist Democrats up close. But, it is clear there was a “Southern strategy” employed by Republicans in the 70s and 80s to win in the South. A lot of this was pandering to racists. As recently as the 2000 election, automated voice messages reverberated throughout South Carolina implying that John McCain had an bi-racial child. Somebody must think that matters to the base.
While you, Stacey, may not be motivated by racial animus, a lot of folks are. Does that mean there are no decent folks out there? No, it means that the political system is corrupted by the politics of race.
Claiming that side A and side B are equal does not make you a centrist. That is nothing more than a self-fulfilling statement.
Making such a statement only proves you to be a centrist if the original statement is TRUE and side A and side B are indeed both equal. Otherwise, you are still just taking sides.
The ‘everyone does it’ defense is meant to minimize the behavior of those who actually ARE doing it.
My last post never posted. Waaaah.
The ‘everyone does it’ defense is meant to minimize the behavior of those who actually ARE doing it.
Not.
History lesson:
“Confederacy” was indeed supported by the Democratic Party.
Anyone referring to conservatives, ie Republicans, as being part of some “confederacy” is engaging in revisionist history of the wildest sort. Or just plain lying. Pick one.
The first white man to sit down at a table in the South and register black voters was a Republican minister. His family received death threats from Democratic Ku Klux Klan members.
Then there’s that other meme, you know, the one where the left talks of “Southern Democrats” as if there were suddenly three parties on the ballots…
I’m a black grandfather who was most definitely a black nerd in school. Alone. So what? I pick my battles.
The autobiography of Benjamin O. Davis would be good reading for all.
Never let ‘em see you sweat.
This life ain’t easy.
If someone raised you to think that this life is fair, they did you a great disservice.
It ain’t fair.
I know of only One who can provide joy.
Note that joy is not “happiness”.
The biggest problem facing Black America right now is the lack of MEN.
Real men who take responsibility for their actions, who actually mature into adult men when men are supposed to mature instead of around the age of 40.
Disciplined MEN.
And the welfare-nanny-state is not the way to accomplish that.
If you don’t believe me, ask any educated black woman about their biggest problem. LaShawn will tell you and as a matter of fact, she already has.
.
Okay, I guess that one post of mine disappeared into never-neverland. I’ll try again.
No one came out of the woodwork to defend conservatives from the idea that the left and the right are equally guilty of exploiting the race issue (although that IS one debate I’d like to have, too).
I think it is less than honest of you, Angel, to try to pretend that this is what I was talking about.
Your statement that the conservative base is so rac ist that conservative politicians must avoid
appearing ’sympathetic to blacks’ is the statement I take issue with.
But, if you are no longer interested in advancing that view, I suppose I can only be grateful.
As far as both parties equally exploiting the race issue , I’d love to see some equivalent examples. Maybe I’m just drawing a blank here, but I recall far less of that sort of thing coming from the right as compared to the left.
Here’s the scenario:
The “Black left” rarely highlights the Black majority who are achieving and striving to do better. They highlight the “Black underclass” and falsely give the impression that the “Black underclass” defines the Black community in America. This can be seen in the things pushed by the misnamed “Black leaders” such as minimum wage, working wage, tax increases on “the rich”, support for more money for schools but not for vouchers or charter schools, etc.
The “Black right” rarely highlights the Black majority who are achieving and striving to do better. They highlight the “Black underclass” and what they are doing to hold themselves back and falsely gives the impression that the “Black underclass” defines the Black community in America. This can be seen in the comments about crime done by Blacks but not mentioning that the crime is done by a minority of Blacks. This can be seen in comments about so-called “anti-intellectualism” in the Black community in one commentary, and then in a latter commentary mentioning the waiting list that occurs when “inner-city” parents are offered private vouchers or that “inner-city” parents flock to charter schools but never mention both in the same commentary because it shows a major contradiction that can’t be explained in sound bite analysis but may be able to be explained in the “Acting White” study link I provided earlier.
I tutored in D.C. in one of the programs that are run “in private.” I’m one of the Black middle class that you don’t hear about. I take shots at Dems and Repubs but “conservatives” note the shots at Repubs and label me “liberal” and say nothing when I posted the efforts I made to aid a Republican in Maryland come up with ideas to improve education in public schools.
I’ve “dared” to “tell the truth” and provide public information to back it up by showing some so-called “Black leaders” have spoken out against gangsta rap and for education but instead of it being accepted as fact, it is stated I “follow” the so-called Black leaders. And there is nothing said when I’ve provided links that show where I castigate so-called Black leaders.
Yet, pointing out the flaws in “both sides” “is meant to minimize the behavior of those who actually ARE doing it.”
I’ve often stated that Blacks can’t afford to get caught up in the so-called “liberal vs conservative” “debate” and the reason why is the “debate” prevents well meaning individuals, who may disagree about some things, to come to an agreement on other things and work together.
Here’s another thing to ponder: why were most public conservative commentators surprised to find out that Black churches provide a lot of services to the Black community when the idea of the government backing such religion based programs was raised?
Stacey,
That “waaaah” of frustration is priceless. I love it! Anyway, I don’t believe I was defending anyone’s practice of race exploitation.
Just mentioning that both sides do it because…THEY DO. The fact of the matter is I’m tired of being on the wrong side of the equation no matter what I say.
It appears that I’m only allowed to call the cardboard cutouts of so-called black leadership (Jackson, Sharpton and Farrakhan) racist. Anything else, if I stray outside those lines people go nuts.
Again, I ask, should I just say nothing?
M. Simon
Blacks are the top talents in sports.
You know this is a false statement don’t you?
Weightlifting, swimming, distance running, wrestling, mixed martial arts, tennis, and gymnastics are all sports dominated by whites. So you are really unable to use the notion of black physical superiority to justify your expression of black mental inferiority.
#43 DarkStar.
Good post. You hit it on the nail.
Darkstar, since you quoted me in your latest post, I suppose it is aimed at me. Please show me where I called you ‘liberal’. Show where in this thread you provided links that I ignored, etc., etc.
My only comment to you was made after you inserted yourself into an ongoing conversation with a statement that seemed to suggest that criticizing both political parties equally makes one a centrist. I stand by my response.
You may very well be a centrist. I have no idea, as I don’t know you at all.
.
What I do know is a simple statement saying both parties are equally guilty of a particular thing does not make you a centrist (Of course, it also doesn’t mean you are not-it’s simply not enough to go on). If you take that statement to mean that you aren’t, then that’s on you.
P.S. What conservative commentators were surprised to find out that black churches provide support to the black community and how and when did they express their surprise? Who were the few conservative commentators that were not surprised? There definitely are a few ‘conservative’ commentators out there who are nuts, but I really don’t believe MOST con. commentators would be surprised by this.
Amen!!! Hallelujah!!!! Praise the Lord!!!! The TRUTH has been spoken today. Let he who hath ears to hear………..
By the way, according to the information posted on Barack Obama’s church’s website (Trinity United Church of Christ), the middle class black family mentioned in LaShawn’s article would most likely be shunned.
According to their posted beliefs and vision, one of their tenets says they they strive for the “Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassness”.
sorry about the broken link above…it should be http://www.tucc.org/about.htm or TUCC About Us page.
#45
Darkstar said:
“(blacks)can’t afford to get caught up in the so-called “liberal vs conservative†“debate†and the reason why is the “debate†prevents well meaning individuals, who may disagree about some things, to come to an agreement on other things and work together.”
I applaud that kind of honesty and reason, and the word “debate” has never been so worthy of inverted commas. What there is, is very little debate. There IS plenty of demonizing, pandering, generalizing, quote mining, dissembling, deleting, distorting, namecalling and egomania, unfortunately, the ones who are always pointing the finger at the Other Side, seem to be the ones who are now defining politics. Bringing race into the mix is an old horse that deserves to be shot.
That does not mean that racism is a dead issue, it means that profiting from racism, be it race-pimping, or race-demonizing, has had it’s day.
#11. “We’re not allowed to be pro-white in America.”
Really? I was always under the impression that it was perfectly legal to be ‘pro-white’ or any other colour, no matter how ridiculous the concept??
Skye-Puppy, do you actually have proof of the non-existence of pro-white groups in the US?
Regards,
JohnD
It’s about time, thank God some of us are finally getting it:)
Because I am white I can assure you that there are white racists. Also, because I am white I can assure you that there are black racists. I have heard just as despicable racist remarks from blacks as whites. I have lived in the south, the north, the mid-west, the west. The worst racist I’ve ever met (worked with) was a wealthy Philadelphian Democrat who spends his weekends at Hyannis Port drinking with Ted Kennedy.
However, 90 to 98% of the white people I know are not racists. They are just hard working people who want to do their job, make a living, feed, house, clothe their families. Yes, in the past there was horrible discrimination against blacks. However, I now see just as racist behavior from some parts of the black community as exists in a very small part of the white community. I do think that community is the wrong word, because community indicates some sense of cohesiveness that just does not exists in the “white world”.
Raised in a poor single (divorced) mother household, I can say that my experience indicates that it isn’t all that “easier” making my way in the world. Actually, I have been amazed by the impression that life is easy for white people. Yes, there are some white people who have it very easy, but the rest of us have to work hard for what we have. I am not saying just as hard or harder than the experiences of non-whites, but life isn’t easy for most of us regardless of the color of our skin.
You all might find this interesting. Last week my granddaughter came home from school all “puffy-eyed” as my daughter put it. Apparently her 4th grade class had watched a documentary on race from the Discovery Network on slavery, showing actual footage of black people being hanged, killed by white people. According to my granddaughter, several of the kids, especially girls, were very distraught, crying. During recess, she said they all seemed to be looking at her. Why? Well, she’s biracial, and out of 500 kids, there are two black kids in the whole school. She said she felt very uncomfortable and thought they were looking at her because of her color. My granddaughter has never experienced any racial prejudice that we are aware of, has lots of friends, does well in school, etc.
That day my granddaughter was introduced to civil rights. My daughter was really mad. She doesn’t let my granddaughter watch anything violent on television. Furthermore, my daughter hadn’t been notified by the school that anything like that was going to be shown even though the week before she had to sign a permission slip because the class was going to watch a film that had the word “damn” in it. As she put it, I think it’s fine that they learn about civil rights at that age but she was furious at the violent way it was introduced. My daughter has been trying to raise my granddaughter in a way that is race neutral although she does live in a “white world” so to speak since my daughter is white and she is married to a white man and my granddaughter has a white sister in the home. (Granddaughter’s biologic father is black and not in her life at all.) Obviously, she lives in an area with few minorities.
Well, that evening my daughter sat my granddaughter down and gave her a brief history lesson on the history of race in this country. She tried to explain to her that although this was a terrible time in our country, things were different now. She didn’t need to worry about getting shot, etc. because of her race.
My daughter was ready to march up to the school the next day but decided to wait a few days till she cooled down as she feared she was overreacting.
I’d be interested in hearing the views of some of the commentors, black and white, on what I just told you and what you would do if this was your child or grandchild.
Dianne,
I’m sorry that your granddaughter had to see the topic presented in that fashion. But, slavery was not pretty. There will never be a way to spruce it up for general audiences. The Civil Rights Era came about because 100 years after the end of slavery, people were standing in our way.
My daughter is biracial. I’m multiracial and multilingual, but as Obama says, the world sees me as black with all the baggage, pluses and minuses that go along with it.
Again, that was a rough way to be introduced to the topic. But, at least she faced it early. My parents thought much the same way you do. But, just because something is less likely to happen doesn’t mean you don’t talk about it. My family went into the world in good faith. Not asking anyone for anything.
I was 14 years old, walking along the Charles River in Cambridge, with my brother and a friend. We came to a bridge. There were two older identical white twins (40s or so) walking ahead of us. For some reason, they turned around and started running, got to the end of the bridge, jumped into a waiting car. A little girl in the back seat gave us the finger as they sped away. It didn’t really dawn on us what had happened until the finger. Until that point, we were living in the spirit, promise and the freedom this country offers. Until the finger. It was a harsh slap across the face.
And, I know some idiot is going to say something stupid like, “Well, at least you weren’t lynched! or What did you expect them to do with you black males walking behind them?” Again, it’s not the end of the world, I don’t wallow in it or say it destroyed me. But, it woke me up.
I wish my parents had prepared me for that piece of reality as well as they had for everything else in life.
Is there a positive in that anecdote? Yes. There were several other white and black people walking on that bridge along with us who didn’t look twice at us. And, if they did, they saw three kids enjoying a beautiful summer day in Cambridge.
I guess the bottom line for your granddaughter is to not let anyone else define her. She is a child of today not 300 years ago. Her world gets brighter every day while the ugliness of yesterday recedes into the shadows.
“I guess the bottom line for your granddaughter is to not let anyone else define her. She is a child of today not 300 years ago. Her world gets brighter every day while the ugliness of yesterday recedes into the shadows.”
On that, Angel, we have no disagreement at all. My two little biracial cousins are being raised with that sort of positive motivation in their lives, and are thriving. Both are honor students, both have lofty goals in life. I have to think it’s because their family is strong, focuses upon the right goals, and generally lives up to the paragraph you wrote above. Those kids have bright futures ahead of them.
Darkstar, since you quoted me in your latest post, I suppose it is aimed at me. Please show me where I called you ‘liberal’. Show where in this thread you provided links that I ignored, etc., etc.
I quoted you and others in my response. I respond to multiple comments at one time to save posting space.
What conservative commentators were surprised to find out that black churches provide support to the black community and how and when did they express their surprise?
Janet Parshall, Jerry Fawell, and George Will jump out at me right. In general, most of the public white supporters of faith based initiatives were surprised to find out that Black churches do more community programs than compariable “white churches.”
“In general”. “Most”. Nice specifics.
You can claim all you want that George Will, Jerry Falwell et al “were suprised” that black churches do more community aid than “comparable white churches”.
But until you give a specific link, and a specific quote — with time and place — you have not answered the question.
“Janet Parshall, Jerry Fawell, and George Will jump out at me right. In general, most of the public white supporters of faith based initiatives were surprised to find out that Black churches do more community programs than compariable “white churches.†–Comment by DarkStar — 02.24.07 @ 10:41 am”
I’ve followed Janet and Jerry rather closely down through the years and cannot come to that same conclusion at all.
Sources please?
Darkstar generalizes: “In general, most of the public white supporters of faith based initiatives were surprised to find out that Black churches do more community programs than comparable “white churches.â€
Who could ever prove such a statement?
There are communities across the USA where faith based initiatives are strong and growing. There are also places where there is a dearth of faith based initiatives. I am not aware of any data that identifies these places, let alone categorizing them by the race of the congregation.
As to how “most” of the public white supporters of faith based initiatives react to anything is unknowable. Just what is the size of the cohort of public white supporters of faith based initiatives? How were they identified and what constitutes “surprise” as a statistical response?
Just curious.
Angel, thanks for your thoughtful comments and especially your last paragraph. I’m going to recite that to my daughter.
God bless,
Dianne
Who could ever prove such a statement?
If you paid attention to the public commentary, that is exactly what you would have come away with.
here are also places where there is a dearth of faith based initiatives. I am not aware of any data that identifies these places, let alone categorizing them by the race of the congregation.
Here’s an example of that categorization. Scroll down to “Myth 6″
How were they identified and what constitutes “surprise†as a statistical response?
They were self identified and stated they didn’t realize or know of the higher probability of Black churches doing this kind of work.
Now I have a question for you: is there any statiscal proof that most Black churches allow politicians to speak to the congregations on Sunday’s near elections?
Just curious.
Angel—I like your comment re Clinton showing the courage to face up to “uppity” blacks like Sista Soldwhatsher name–after all, all she did was call for white to be murdered. Who wouldn’t support that?
Slavery ended 150 years ago. Get over it.
Darkstar, you say, “This can be seen in comments [by the "Black right"] about so-called “anti-intellectualism†in the Black community in one commentary, and then in a latter commentary mentioning the waiting list that occurs when “inner-city†parents are offered private vouchers or that “inner-city†parents flock to charter schools but never mention both in the same commentary because it shows a major contradiction that can’t be explained in sound bite analysis but may be able to be explained in the “Acting White†study link I provided earlier.”
I’ve read through the “Acting White” paper you referenced and am confused. How does that paper potentially explain the pressure a student gets from his peers to not succeed in school [anti-intellectualism?] versus their parents’ desire for a better education (or at least a possibly better/safer school) for their child? Or, are you saying the anti-intellectualism charge isn’t directed to just the students but to that community’s adults as well? And [if you have time], can you explain what “two-audience signaling” [from the paper referenced] is in everyday English, and how that differs from your student peers making fun of you and “pulling you down” if you “act White”?
DarkStar,
The link you provide and your generalization do not coincide. First, the link does not purport to have made a statistical analysis of congregations nationwide. Secondly, the link is focused on faith-based initiatives and government funds. Thirdly, the author of the link gives no evidence to his conclusion that black congregations and liberal congregations are far more likely to seek federal grants. (Just saying it does not make it so.)
Your generalization is that: Black churches do more community programs than comparable “white churches.â€
The link does not support or clarify this claim.
Here is your generalization: “In general, most of the public white supporters of faith based initiatives were surprised to find out that Black churches do more community programs than comparable “white churches.â€
Here is what you are saying: Black churches do more community programs than comparable white churches.
Where is the data that supports this claim? What purpose does the modifying word “comparable” play in the whole concept?
Without data proving that Black churches do more community programs than comparable white churches, how are we to know if and why “most” of the public white supporters of faith based initiatives would be surprised to know this?
As to your question: I have no idea if “most Black churches allow politicians to speak to the congregations on Sunday’s near elections?” I never made the claim or even gave it a thought. (I do know that the mainstream media likes to give news footage to white guys talking to black congregations just before the election.)
There are a whale of a lot of churches across this nation. I am suspicious of any statistic that goes much beyond where they are located, their affiliation and who currently leads the congregation.
Personally, I treat the validity of statements about “black churches” with the same skepticism I bring to statements about what the black “community” thinks. Generalizations gleaned from base stereotyping is both boring and fatuous.
“Generalizations gleaned from base stereotyping is both boring and fatuous.”
Well said Heliotrope.
And in that case, I would just like to say…
(sound of muffled mouth by own hand)
I just love double standards.
I’ve read through the “Acting White†paper you referenced and am confused. How does that paper potentially explain the pressure a student gets from his peers to not succeed in school [anti-intellectualism?] versus their parents’ desire for a better education (or at least a possibly better/safer school) for their child?
The paper addresses the so-called [sub]culture of anti-intellectualism as defined by the charge “acting white.” From my reading the paper disproves the common commentary that it is a part of the overall Black culture. The paper states, directly in my view, that the “acting white” charge doesn’t exist in majority Black schools or in non-public schools. It exists, to a degree where Black students are the small minority in an integrated school.
Your generalization is that: Black churches do more community programs than comparable “white churches.â€
Sure it did.
More later, real life calls…
When I mentioned the contradiction of “acting white” and parents seeking out education alternatives I was saying that if “anti-intellectualism” is a part of the Black community, the parents wouldn’t behave in the manner in which they are.
#26 Darkstar: “Hasn’t Jack and Jill of America done this for decades?
Shhh…. Don’t be talkin’ ’bout Black folks biznis in front of dem white folk…”
Aren’t you the one who always chides La Shawn for not posting the positive stories? Here, she’s posted a great one, and that snarky comment is all you have to say. Thank goodness La Shawn’s not in this to be a people pleaser.
Darkstar: As you say, “The ["Acting White"] paper addresses the so-called [sub]culture of anti-intellectualism…,” and that culture, “…doesn’t exist in majority Black schools or in non-public schools.” The paper also establishes that “acting White” problems exist for Hispanic students too.
Three points:
a) My perception is not that the Black community is perceived as anti-intellectual but that a pernicious youth sub-culture exists that IS anti-intellectual. That same type of sub-culture appears to affect Hispanic students similarly. It isn’t that the parents “put down” their child (although the parent(s) may be indifferent, and thus cause harm), but that the child’s peers do. Thus I do not see the contradiction you highlighted earlier that the “Black right” cannot comment on [student] anti-intellectualism together with their parents’ desire for vouchers (for example).
b) The paper doesn’t address it but why does that “acting White” attitude exist in integrated public schools but not in segregated public schools or integrated private schools?
c) Assuming that above point (b) is true (and the “Acting White” research paper seems to support that), what do the public schools need to do that is being done in private schools with the same racial mix?
#72 Gary K. asks: c) ……. what do the public schools need to do that is being done in private schools with the same racial mix?
No public school I know cares about this vital question. Public schools are what economists call an “externiality.” They are there for the benefit of all entitled to use them with no direct cost for their use. They are like landscaped boulevards, PBS, forest reserves, street lights, city parks and myriad other government perks that you may use for “free.”
As a result, public schools have no sense of “competition” since they are part of the tax-supported fabric of society. Furthermore, the parents of the users feel empowered to make all manner of demands on the way the public school conducts its business.
Private schools that are no good at what they do usually fold and go out of business. Private schools (for the most part) have a set of standards and they continually measure the student and his progress against those standards. Naturally, the private school must have enough tuition to cover the costs, but private schools are not going to increase their overhead by pandering to students who do not put forth sufficient effort.
I am watching the accelerated growth of Sylvan Learning Centers across the US. Their clients are kids who come to them after public school hours to learn what they have not mastered during public school hours. They charge plenty and they have a good success rate. But, they are dealing with students who are being sent to them to achieve. That is of major importance.
Why wouldn’t a public high school incorporate a Sylvan Learning Center as part of its structure? Well, it isn’t an egalitarian concept. It is profiling. It is an educational hate crime. It is a capitalist, conservative, bourgeois tool.
Public school people generally loathe the idea of vouchers. They know that many of their students will opt for one of a wide variety of private school options and that the public schools will be left with a large population of education “dregs.”
But here is the curious paradox. Special education rules and mandates have a terrific control on how public schools are structured and run. That would seem to indicate that the public schools feel confident that they know how to deal with special education students in both societal and educational ways.
Therefore, it would seem that if the public schools were to be left with the “dregs” that they are well prepared to deal with them in a productive manner. But, we all know that that is not so. In so many ways, public schools are a sham.
Certainly, there are excellent public schools and excellent public school teachers. But you can not move a great high school from “X” and plop it down with all its teachers and staff in the mean streets of “Y” and find that it moves merrily along as a great school.
Great schools have a strong sense of community and a magical working chemistry. Some public schools achieve it. Successful private schools are almost required to have it.
Of course, the voucher system would have to be monitored. We can ill afford a series of voucher diploma mills that turn out illiterate basketball players. In the capitalist system, schools of all description will spring up to lure voucher bearers. Proof of this lies in the fact that the nation is littered with technical schools and colleges who court kids with federal loans who can’t pass a basic sixth grade proficiency test. The schools get the tuition and abandon the pupil. It is usually the poor and uneducated who get scammed by these institutions.
My worry is that we end up with a series of voucher financed schools that teach hate, bigotry and anarchy. This would be a critical misuse of public funds. (Vouchers are drawn on the public treasury.)
Lucinius,
Anyone who would pick this name for himself reveals his true character - pompous and predictable. Get over yourself.
Aren’t you the one who always chides La Shawn for not posting the positive stories? Here, she’s posted a great one, and that snarky comment is all you have to say.
Have you noticed the positive links I’ve posted in the comment section from time to time with no comments from anyone?
Have you noticed the links I’ve given pointing to positive demographic data about Blacks from time to time with no comments from anyone? Well, there was ONE commment.
Snarky?
But instead of invoking the “legacy of slavery†or classroom bias or a “lack†of government funds (although some urban school districts tend to have the country’s highest per pupil expenditures) or any excuse with the word “racism†attached to it,
Snarky?
A mainstream media story about black parents taking responsibility for their children’s education without any mention of the same old tired historical grievances rhetoric or guilt-tripping whites for their help or their money…
Snarky?
That wraps up my positive-news-about-blacks-and-solutions-to-problems post.
FL Mom…
Do you have any comments on the links provided about goings on in D.C.?
Darkstar,
How is it that you and I seem to be the only people on this board who hear about the good things happening out there? What’s so interesting about the use of the word diversity is that alleged conservatives are so focused on the word’s use as short-hand for everything they don’t like, they are blinded to everything else.
There is so much diversity within the black population. And, that means across the religious, political and class structures that trying to label us as a community is such an outdated idea.
It’s much easier to take all the things that are negative and throw it at us like a wastebasket of crumpled papers. All we can do is pluck each scrap up from the floor for review.
Anyway, what you’re saying regarding what goes on in Black churches is true. The whole point of the faith-based initiative was that Bush and his team knew from their experience in Texas that these church based programs were vital to many blacks. If they were able to create a national umbrella, they might have been able to draw more blacks to the Republican column.
Before anyone posts that I’m being cynical, I’m not. Policy is always driven on two fronts: What is the gain for the nation? What is the gain for the party in power? For some reason, the idea never really took off. I’m curious as to why. Was it because of the restrictions government would place on the programs? Or, did churches (black and white) just foresee too many problems?
Darkstar,
How is it that you and I seem to be the only people on this board who hear about the good things happening out there? What’s so interesting about the use of the word diversity is that alleged conservatives are so focused on the word’s use as short-hand for everything they don’t like, they are blinded to everything else.
There is so much diversity within the black population. And, that means across the religious, political and class structures that trying to label us as a community is such an outdated idea.
It’s much easier to take all the things that are negative and throw it at us like a wastebasket of crumpled papers. All we can do is pluck each scrap up from the floor for review.
Anyway, what you’re saying regarding what goes on in Black churches is true. The whole point of the faith-based initiative was that Bush and his team knew from their experience in Texas that these church based programs were vital to many blacks. If they were able to create a national umbrella, they might have been able to draw more blacks to the Republican column.
Before anyone posts that I’m being cynical, I’m not. Policy is always driven on two fronts: What is the gain for the nation? What is the gain for the party in power? For some reason, the idea never really took off. I’m curious as to why. Was it because of the restrictions government would place on the programs? Or, did churches (black and white) just foresee too many problems?
Angel, you’re no Angel. And you still haven’t explained why you’re defending someone who called for people to be murdered just because they had a particular skin color. Care to try again, this time without the ad hominem? No?
You’re not begin cynical, just malignant and vacuous.
So I am confused about what exactly it is that us evil conservatives are suppose to do. I believe that most of us and many of the posters on LaShawn’s site believe that there is a very large black middle class that are very positive and productive members of our society. But we have also learned lessons from situations such as Hurricane Katrina which shone the light on the dangers and attitudes that permeate the preferential treatment and entitlement society.
Those of us in public service were treated pretty nasty in a whole lot of situations when we were just trying to help. And trust me I am not aiming that comment at just Black people. I think the point is that although we want to point out the positives as well, we can’t sit around and bury our heads in the sand about the other side of the story where the people are affected and we know they could be helped to become more productive members of our society. Instead we get slammed if we say hey, there is a bigger problem and we still have a ways to go. And from where I come from I am talking about everyone not just one color. So that is my question, should we just talk about all the good in the world and never address any of the bad? Will that fix things?
Angel,
I am very active in my community. I know there are good outreach programs of all description throughout the nation. I often take the time to visit them and see what we can learn from them for use in our town. I do not deny that they exist.
I also travel my state to learn what is being done about the problem of black and Hispanic dropout rates and learning deficiencies. The average Hispanic high school graduate is four grade levels below the proficiency of the average white high school graduate. For blacks, it is that and more.
There is enormous frustration among teachers about attendance patterns, attitude, verbal acuity, cultural literacy, work ethic, etc. These are all issues that most successful students have had settled at home.
I have been a conservative Republican for over 40 years. I know that government as the “village” that raises the child is the most inefficient and cumbersome model you could think up. Government always breaks down into committees and studies things until they come up with a set of recommendations that lie on a shelf and gather dust. Meanwhile, nothing happens. That is because it is all politics and the politics of diversity makes consensus meaningless.
We used to have three important forces in our formative years: the two parent family, the church and the school. Now, for many, only the school remains and it has been turned from being a citadel of public education to a public relations workshop.
If parents are motivated to network to steer (shove) their kids in the right direction, then they deserve all the respect and support we can give them.
But everyone should spend a few weeks in a housing project and get a good picture of what dysfunctional means. You will also learn how hard it is for those who are trying to succeed to avoid the negative aspects of the culture surrounding them. Putting your child in the bath tub when the shooting begins is not one of life’s normal lessons.
I am not preaching here. I have made it my practice to experience what goes on among the disadvantaged and disaffected. I know that poverty of spirit is the worst form of poverty. I came up through an orphanage and I know the taste of being too broke to pay attention. But I am still mystified by the person who is so down that he won’t reach out to accept a hand up.
Making generalizations about black churches drives me nuts. I can deliver two local preachers who like little boys and one who loves the ladies. They are all black. Shall I draw a generalization about that? Is the same thing going on among local white preachers? Perhaps, I just don’t know about it. Shall I make a generalization about that?
In the final analysis, people of good will, without regard to race, are necessary to fight the problems of our disaffected youth. Since race and ethnicity are so important to so many youngsters, it is probably best that their role models come from their homes and neighborhoods.
Just who inherited the mantle of Martin Luther King? Who is it that preaches hope rather than bitches about the lack of government slop in the trough? Where is the leader who can see a solution without resorting to a refrain of “more money, more money, more money?” You can not buy success; it comes from the heart.
Lucinius,
I don’t recall defending Sister Souljah in my post. I was just pointing it out as an example of a Democrat going “centrist”. It really doesn’t matter what she said. It was Clinton repudiating her remarks, which in the scheme of things were irrelevant because nobody with a brain would agree to them. And, while I am no angel in the Biblical sense, Angel is my real name. I’m pretty sure Lucinius that you are no emperor.
Helio - excellents points made.
Helio,
I think we all inherited the mantle of Martin Luther King. Lazy reporters put certain people(Sharpton, Jackson, et al) on their speed dial to give the “black” perspective on a myriad of issues. It’s a lot more complicated than that. The solution is not to seek out conservative black leaders like Jesse P., Armstrong or whoever the new one that Fox News pops on this week.
When MLK made the Biblical allusion about being on the mountaintop and not getting to the Promised Land with us, he didn’t name a successor. He was inherently telling us that it was up to us individually to carve out the future.
The problem I generally have with a lot of black conservatives in the eye of the media is they want to be the new “Jesse”. It’s ridiculous. A yoke is a yoke, no matter who drives the oxen.
Angel,
Dr. King could not have named a successor. Nor is it necessary for there to be another Martin Luther King. But his mantle is an entirely different matter all together.
I agree with your words that King “was inherently telling us that it was up to us individually to carve out the future.” That is the essence of what he left us; his mantle.
Color me purple, but I hear that message often from conservative lips and darn seldom from liberals.
Listen to Obama and tell me what your hear.
I am tired of tent revivals and poverty pimps. I rue the fact that the liberal establishment and mainstream media have little interest in the work of ants. And I am further disgusted with the continual charade of Sunday piety while looking the other way as the weekday trash piles up.
From my perch, it is the black conservatives who are making the positive drive toward excellence. And they take a lot heat in the neighborhood as a reward.
dd,
I don’t have a problem with pointing out problems. I do it all the time, but not to the exclusion of everything else. We have people of all talents and disciplines that can serve as role models to others.
As an aside, do you really in your heart of hearts think a single mother on welfare living in the projects even has access to the opinions bandied about on this blog? If the intent is to correct the problems, is this really the proper forum? Or, is it an echo chamber?
Helio,
I really don’t care about Obama, Hillary or anyone from the other side. The only thing politics offer is power and access. Power and access that is neither shared nor used wisely by conservatives or liberals.
I’m not a black conservative. I go to work every day. I’m on public transportation with these kids. I see it every single day. I grew up in the projects. You really don’t have to tell me what’s out there. I see the literal and figurative trash in the streets. But, I also see the people like me doing their thing, being good citizens and paying taxes. And, they are thriving in Boston, in spite of its’ horrible reputation.
Conservatism as presented by black conservatives offers little more than the shock value of seeing an animal eat its’ own. It doesn’t take a lot of courage to jump onto a forum and use pejorative terms for people you disagree with politically.
Preaching is preaching and people who want to get somewhere have little patience for it, conservative or liberal. Good values don’t have political labels.
I consider the statement beginning “Conservatism as presented by black conservatives offers little more than the shock value of seeing an animal eat its’ own…” a veiled comment directed toward me, and I’m famously sensitive about people, especially anonymous people, insulting me on my own blog. If you want to continue commeting on this board, you need to qualify that statement and/or make it clear that I’m not included in your vile and false generalization. - Admin
Angel,
In my heart of heart yes, I do think they have access. I am just the type of person who doesn’t sell people short. Why? Because I happen to have two parents who don’t even have high school educations, yet, I am a cpa and my siblings are both college educated. Did I have access to that information? Yes, even in the public school system I was raised in.
I also have cousins who actually are in the welfare state and I know there are plenty of people out there that want to try to help them.I also know they know how to get out of it. It isn’t just an echo chamber. The problem is, we need to help them help themselves. But like a lot of other people they have that entitlement mentality all to themselves.
My roots are a family raised in extreme poverty but I know for a fact the mold can be broken. I agree it shouldn’t be exclusionary but are you so sure that everyone on here is of that opinion? That it’s one group of people? I don’t think so, because most conservatives don’t like the entitlement mentality no matter who has it. It just happens that La Shawn points out the issues that face Black Americans. You don’t know that the people here aren’t looking for ways to help or solutions that would help everyone. I think plenty of the posters here are extremely involved in the fight to help people out of situations. And not through race preferences or entitlement.
I think the focus on the family is huge in all of this. That’s what makes this post that La Shawn just spoke of and the proactive way the parents are addressing the issues such an important thing to share.
From my perch, it is the black conservatives who are making the positive drive toward excellence. And they take a lot heat in the neighborhood as a reward.
From my perch, which I think is as valid as yours if not more valid, those making the positive drive DON’T identify themselves with a political label and they just DO THE DAMN WORK.
And you claim you don’t like the generalizations of the Black church, yet television and radio conservative commentators seem to prop up Jesse Lee Peterson, who makes, in my opinion, false and baseless accusations of Black churches and Black pastors as a staple of his commentary.
More coming…
Angel,
Whoa!!! Keeping your own nose clean going softly into the sweet, good night is hardly activism. It is admirable to be on a positive track and if society in general would follow the example, we would be a better world.
However, as La Rochefoucauld wisely noted 300 years ago, “everything that begins in mystery ends in politics.”
The idea that black conservatives are engaged in a form of shock-jock banter and eating their own is misology at best.
Conservatism relies on the ancient process of continuity and change. We all adapt and evolve, but the preservation of the basic tenets of the culture are extremely important to the preservation of order.
Change for the sake of change is the ideology of a cancer cell.
We are a capitalist nation with strong roots in the rights and freedoms of the individual. If one shows up at work on time with a can-do attitude and a basic set of skills, it is hard to fail in the United States.
I rent a unit to a “section 8″ lady who has taken hold of herself and is now bugging me to buy the duplex. On the other side is a refugee family from Uzbekistan. Their last home was in a yurt and none of them had any schooling whatsoever. The family has become the most sought after landscape workers in the area. I handle their contracts for them.
Meanwhile, across the street is a duplex with two families who park cars in the yards and toss beer cans in the street. I have spent a lot of hours with them, trying to get their kids away from the PlayStation and into something productive. These people are hooked on government cheese the same way the British junked up the Chinese up with opium.
They get visits from the welfare lady, the parole officer, the food bank people, etc. What they don’t do is get off their fat butts and ride the bus to one of the many places with “help wanted” signs in the window. (You have those same signs all over the Boston area, as well.)
We have rolled out the pale red carpet for those who want to veg out on the welfare system. Meanwhile, people with a little dignity and pride are running circles around them.
If you really think that politics is optional in this life, you are due for a rude awakening. The question comes down to which better serves you: 1) a committee of tax paid bureaucrats dispensing money taken from achievers; or, 2) a community of caring private citizens who offer a had up?
Your stereotype of black conservatives is a badly skewed cheap shot.
DD,
I believe you are sincere, but with all due respect, I’m being specific about Internet access.
A recent survey of 48,000 households found 40 per cent had a computer and a quarter had Internet access. There are variations by race, income and location.
30 per cent of white households had home access to the Net, while 26 per cent of Asian-Americans did. Only 12 per cent of blacks and 13 per cent of Latinos had home Internet access.
As far as income goes, 60 per cent of households with income over $75K had home Internet access. Rural households were less likely at every income level than urban dwellers to have access.
Clearly, these boards are nor accessible for a lot of folks. So, again. The work that must be done is on the streets as it always has been. I believe that networking with others is a lot more influential than my posting here.
While I agree there is an entitlement mentality out there, it is not limited to the poor, minority populations. A lot of what I hear and read in alleged conservative forums is motivated by envy. Sure, a welfare check sounds great, but do you want to live in that neighborhood to get it?
Sure, get rid of race preferences. But, get rid of all preferences. That includes Veterans’ Preferences, Legacy admissions at colleges, residential preferences for civic employment.
We succeeded without preferences and don’t need them. I just wonder what “conservatives” will complain about then.
To me, the average respondant on someone else’s blog generally references the blog subject matter that is presented as a matter of courtesy. Because this is LaShawn’s blog, many of the posts deal with issues of race and in particular, examples of affirmative action and welfare programs gone awry, along with immigration (and Christianity and Harry Potter, of course).
The fact that the vast majority of the posters stick to the subject at hand can in no way be construed as them “only seeing the bad about blacks.” It cannot even rightfully be assumed to be the singular focus of posters and in no way is a refection of the community based efforts of folks in their private lives to make this world a better place.
In general, one of the reasons that the dysfunctional aspects of society are discussed more is because taxpayers are forced to pay for the dysfunctional behavior of others. Most of us would probably ignore the behavior of others if we weren’t forking well over 50% of our salaries to pay for the end results.
Angel;
Ironically, while you seem to feel that you and Darkstar are the most “positive” posters on this board (amazing in and of itself), I find that much of what you write actually paints a very negative picture in my mind of a black society that “cannot be expected to achieve at high levels and should thus be exempt from the kind of expectations that so many on this board seem to think is reasonable.”
When I read posts from someone like Heliotrope, I find them uplifting in their lack of excuses but also because of the very clear message that this is truly a land of opportunity and that black people have more than enough talent to excel. I find that his rejection of ignorant behavior speaks volumes of the high degree of respect that he has for black people. Couple this with his truly innate elegance and I eagerly look forward to his posts. If I had a child that needed mentoring, I would send them in a heartbeat to someone like Helio who would teach them to reach for the stars.
Angel,
I guess I didn’t understand you were specifically worried about Internet access. My family didn’t have it then and I managed to get the information I needed to succeed. That was the point i was trying to make. And I certainly agree with you that the entitlement mentality is not limited to the poor minority population.
And I don’t agree with you that it happens to be about envy. I was raised to be ashamed if you ever took money from the government. I was taught that it took hard work, and even if it meant holding down three jobs (which my father did including swamping out a bowling alley) that is what you needed to do to get there. Not sitting around waiting for the next check to roll in all the while complaining about the folks who have money. It used to be that welfare was just to give people a hand up. Now those same folks believe they should have cable TV and plenty of other luxuries.
Access to the Internet is rapidly moving into plenty of places for those that don’t have it in their homes. I know there are a lot of libraries that provide it and the school systems are also rapidly moving in that direction.
But, I don’t expect a welfare mother living in the projects to be looking for answers to her plight on the Internet. Because that isn’t where she will find it. But I do believe it’s helpful for people to exchange information and ideas that maybe they could introduce to those they have access to help.
And thank you for saying you believed I was sincere. Because I truly am.
Jan - well said…..
Helio,
I do more than keep my nose clean. My work allows me to inspire and influence people. It also allows me to employ people. What is it you conservatives say? The best government program is a job, right?
I don’t see where a “community of caring, private citizens who offer a hand up” is the exclusive domain of so-called conservatives. As DarkStar says, we just do the damn work!
Do you think liberals don’t do the same things to help people? Do you think we don’t believe in the “Bootstrap Method”? Again, politics is irrelevant to the problems we face. Work is a series of problems to solve. I’m good at what I do, to quote Wolverine. At the end of the day, beating the drum for Obama, Condoleeza, or even, God forbid, Alan Keyes, is an exercise in futility.
And, my stereotype of black conservatives is neither a stereotype nor badly skewed. It may be a cheap shot, though. Actually, it’s a cannily accurate description.
Jan,
You have to be kidding me. Not once have I ever advocated for lowered expectations for anyone. I don’t favor preferences for anyone.
What I do not agree with is the constant refrain of blacks behaving badly as being the only thing worthy of attention. Do you really read my posts or are you on auto-pilot as far as I’m concerned?At least grant me that courtesy.
If you post something that I don’t agree with or think is a generalization, I will respond. But, I will respond to you. Not to what I think you might be just because I don’t agree with you. You have a habit of casting aspersions on my character regarding my expectations of my people.
Let me be clear about this. Blacks are achievers. We did it in spite of slavery, in spite of Jim Crow and in spite of segregation. We continue to achieve. This is not in dispute. What is under dispute in whether or nor it is productive to focus solely on the negative. How is that mindset any different that outright telling a black person he or she won’t get anywhere because of racism?
I’m holding your posts until you answer the question I asked in the comment where you generalized about “black conservatives.” - Admin
A lot of what I hear and read in alleged conservative forums is motivated by envy.- Angel
I seriously doubt that you can deduce what motivates a poster from an online posting about welfare. This notion that folks can read the minds of others is disturbingly common nowadays. What makes it even worse/hilarious is that folks are outraged by their imaginative renderings of the “motives” of others.
So when you write things like, “Conservatism as presented by black conservatives offers little more than the shock value of seeing an animal eat its’ own. It doesn’t take a lot of courage to jump onto a forum and use pejorative terms for people you disagree with politically,” you’re referring to me? - Admin
Again, your name was not mentioned once by me. I believe there are other people on this board that identify themselves as conservative.
That doesn’t answer my question. You don’t have a right to be heard or to defend yourself on this blog, but I have a right to require you to address what I consider a personal insult IF you want to continue participating on this blog. - Admin
If I wanted to refer to you, I would. But I’m not.
I’ll accept that. Comments approved. - Admin
So, again. The work that must be done is on the streets as it always has been. I believe that networking with others is a lot more influential than my posting here.-Angel
Excuse me, but I think your self-righteousness may be showing a bit.
Hard as this may be to believe, some of us post just for fun and not as an attempt at social work. This is just a guess on my part, but I think that the average poster on this board is actually smart enough to have figured out that “The work that must be done is on the streets as it always has been”…and not on a blogging post, though certainly much good does emanate from such.
Jan,
Read #96. At least do that before continuing to attack me.
Helio,
Read #95.
casting aspersions on my character - Angel
Actually, I see it more as a case of casting aspersions upon your comments..In other words, I disagree with those comments. The two concepts are quite distinct in my mind.
Jan,
Point out to me where in my posts that I have lowered expectations for blacks. I’ll send you a $10 Starbucks card, if you can do that.
Angel;
I don’t like Starbucks coffee.
Jan,
Your choice. Dunkin’ Donuts, Krispy Kreme, Gloria Jean’s or whatever. Seriously, where do I say that I have lowered expectations for blacks?
Helio is cool and all. But, I’ve mentored many people in my time. I demand the best and I don’t cut anyone any slack.
Jan,
I think I should make it an $8 card as you lose two points for condescension.
Point out to me where in my posts that I have lowered expectations for blacks. -Angel
Quite frankly, I don’t have the energy to do a research project on your posts so I will generalize a bit. As I stated, your posts paint a picture to me…
LaShawn illustrates a specific example of a problem in the black community (I assume she focuses on the black community because she has such deep ties to it and this is where her heart lies, though I cannot be certain of this) and you rail that she has not highlighted the successes of the black community.
You seem to have a problem with the fact that LaShawn highlights problems that exist in the black community while I see it as a labor of love from someone who expects/demands more. I never get the sense that you think that dysfunctional behavior is really a choice when it comes to the black community.
Angel;
Now I am smiling and I simply must know where I have condescended?
fyi: I actually like McDonald’s coffee cuz it is so hot.
Angel….People…are achievers that is what America is all about. Not just Blacks have had challenges that they have faced. You are right as a whole you can say Blacks have faced an inordinate challenge, but there are many Whites who have as well. My husbands great grandfather rode a train all the way across the country saving a couple of sandwiches (that he ultimately did not eat because they went bad) to try to homestead in the Pacific North West and find a better home for their immigrant families.
I think the point is not who has overcome, but who we can help overcome. La Shawn is just pointing out the things that need to be addressed with the Black community. And there are those of us White conservatives who champion what she is doing. I am a conservative, and I am such because I want ALL of America to overcome when they have challenges. I know how good that feels to be able to achieve that and I want it for everyone.
That’s all, I just am tired of the finger pointing and accusations. People need to perform, no matter what color. And we are ALL capable of it.
I’m with Jan about the taxes. I’m tired as a middle class citizen of paying the kind of taxes I do, for people who don’t want to try. I certainly understand a temporary need for help for people who hit unfortunate times, but I definitely don’t understand the people who keep themselves in a permanent state of dependence. It makes me sad for them.
Trust me, I think a lot of conservatives will be OK with dispensing of all preferences…..
Oh, and there are many of us who are involved in our communities and trying to help people get a hand up. It’s who we are.
Jan,
McDonald’s coffee? A woman of the people!
I deal with dysfunctional behavior among blacks every day and it angers me, saddens me and breaks my heart into little pieces. But, I also know that there are other people out there who are the majority of blacks that make the right choices. For a lot of us, it’s not even a question. We were raised that way. I don’t understand how my wanting you to acknowledge that there are more people like me than the idiot plastered in the police blotter is excusing bad behavior.
Angel - you don’t out right say you have lowered expectations for Blacks. You don’t have to. Don’t get me wrong I can understand where you get your back up when people criticize and generalize, but I don’t think that is what is going on with this blog. I think that issues are being pointed out. And I think we’re happy to embrace ideas and ways to help. I am so impressed with people like Helio who are willing to dedicate their life to education. It helps all of us. That’s all I personally am trying to say.
And I am very grateful for LaShawn for providing the forum to discuss and find ways to fix the problems that will ultimately affect all of us. I personally love this country and don’t want ANYONE here to not succeed.
DD,
Aren’t there plenty of places to see or read about blacks behaving badly like the newspaper or television. You can even hear about it on that old-fashioned whatchmacallit, the wireless radio.
If our goals are similar in that we both want:
A. People to achieve and
B. Communities rather government to solve problems
How does my pointing out the really positive things that black people ARE doing and have BEEN doing for years detract from those goals?
Angel;
I think that perhaps you give yourself the “privilege” of admitting that there is behavior in the black commmunity that saddens you while finding it annoying when others say the very same thing (but perhaps they do not elucidate in quite so delicate a fashion as you). Perhaps it is because you think that you tout the good behavior more.
On the other hand, there are many who think that GOOD behavior in the black community does not need to be highlighted any more than good behavior in any other community because they expect the SAME level of excellence (this is strictly rhetorical >
Angel - pointing out the positive isn’t the problem. Ignoring the negative is. In any community - Black or White. And there are plenty of negative to address in both. This, as Jan pointed out, just happens to be a blog where a Black conservative wants to assist in helping point out some of the issues, and you refer to people who do this as “eating their own”. That’s the problem, we can’t bury our head in the sand or accuse people of being ugly. And unfortunately statistically speaking, there is a higher percentage of Black America facing some very challenging issues.
Trust me Angel, I am a huge advocate of everyone succeeding. I don’t see things in terms of Black, White, American Indian, Hispanic or any other race, I am related to all and can relate to all. I just think there is too much defensiveness going on when people try to point out places where we as a country can improve. What is wrong with that? Other than I don’t want my taxes to go up to pay for the dysfunctional actions of some of these people. I would be willing to pay if we could get them out of this situation, but it isn’t happening that way. White or Black or any other color for what it’s worth.
I just don’t like entitlements or preferences, race or otherwise. It doesn’t make me or people who believe as I do evil.
By the way Angel, I see plenty of White people behaving badly on TV or the radio as well. It doesn’t offend me, it makes me sad. I don’t like anyone to behave badly, I think we as a Christian nation should make better choices. And I don’t relate personally to every White person who is terrible or behaving badly. I don’t know why you would for all the Black people that behave badly either. That isn’t your responsibility nor is it mine, unless it’s your child.
Jan,
The reason this is important to me and should be important to other blacks is that housing patterns tell us we still live in a pretty segregated country. Some of that is choice, some of that is economics. There are people out there who don’t have black neighbors, classmates, friends, or co-workers. There are people out there whose perception of blacks is formed by the news media. And, what is reported in the media is more often than not, negative.
I believe I have an obligation to point out in my own small way that there are blacks who have much in common with you in the way of values and the like. The media is not going to do it. This does not excuse the bad behavior. I’m much more likely to be a victim of that bad behavior than either you or DD ever will be.
So, this has become a frustrating task because neither of you really want to “hear” what I’m saying. I’m a screenwriter by trade. I could make a bundle by writing a typical “gangbanger” nonsense-ridden movie. I can’t tell you how much crap I shot in my music video directing days. But, I choose to write about people like my family and others like my family because I have an obligation to show the world the whole truth about my people, not a small piece of it.
All the bad news is out there. The media is not hiding it from you. It’s not on the Dead Sea Scrolls. It’s in our faces every day. If we have to carry the burden of it, allow me to at least shift the weight from time to time
Angel - I hear you, but you also need to hear what we are saying. We don’t look at it as all Black people are evil. We see that there are people in this country who make bad choices. You just cringe every time you see it is a Black person, we however, don’t cringe when it is a White person. Really, how many Black women have killed their kids in the state of Texas?? No, it’s the crazy White women. Do I take offense because of my race? Heck no, I think they are crazy. What causes them over Black women to be this destructive to their own children???? God only knows, but I don’t personalize it. But I do know we certainly need to figure it out, don’t you think????????? You honestly don’t have the burden you think you do, by the way, I live in a very nice neighborhood, and of my six immediate neighbors half are Black, and I think nothing of that, this is America. These people are successful and on their way to affluence, I hope they aren’t making excuses or bearing burdens for those who aren’t willing to do what they have.
DD,
Clearly you are not hearing me.
Angel - Clearly you are not hearing me either…..
The idea that black conservatives are engaged in a form of shock-jock banter and eating their own is misology at best.
Perception matters. When Jesse Lee Peterson, for example, says that you can’t be a Christian and be a Democrat, what kind of commentary is that?
How about when he states most Black preachers are not called by God, but by their mommas?
How about when he states most Black people are lazy?
Your stereotype of black conservatives is a badly skewed cheap shot.
The stereotype of Blacks being dependent on government is a badly skewed cheap shot as well. On one hand, you have Walter Wms and people like him who say one of the keys to getting ahead is getting a job, any job, on the other hand, you have conservatives slamming Blacks for being more likely to work for the government. Meanwhile, the general population makes use of gov’t backed student loans, FHA loans, and SBA loans and programs. Farmers make use of the gov’t dole to plan crops and farm. But Blacks are “a problem” with depending on gov’t?
Ironically, while you seem to feel that you and Darkstar are the most “positive†posters on this board (amazing in and of itself), I find that much of what you write actually paints a very negative picture in my mind of a black society that “cannot be expected to achieve at high levels and should thus be exempt from the kind of expectations that so many on this board seem to think is reasonable.â€
Given I’ve shown Blacks achieving by providing stats, given that I’ve shown Black individuals and groups doing the work to turn things around, I have no idea why your statement hold true for what I post. Not one place have I EVER written Blacks are not expected to achieve.I challenge your world view and you don’t like it. Fine. But to say what I write paints a negative picture, is flatly wrong.
LaShawn illustrates a specific example of a problem in the black community (I assume she focuses on the black community because she has such deep ties to it and this is where her heart lies, though I cannot be certain of this) and you rail that she has not highlighted the successes of the black community.
You seem to have a problem with the fact that LaShawn highlights problems that exist in the black community while I see it as a labor of love from someone who expects/demands more. I never get the sense that you think that dysfunctional behavior is really a choice when it comes to the black community.
I am an engineer by training and a software engineer by trade. I make a decent living, and have earned a good reputation, as someone who is capable of defining a problem, coming up with options to solve the problem, and solving the problem. I also have earned a good reputation of helping analize systems others create to find potential problems, if there are any.
Over 20 years in my field, I’ve found that when people are good at finding a problem, they should also be good at presenting solutions to the problem and highlighting examples of how previous problems were solved. Those people are the people who are highly valued vs those who can just find and point out the problems.
So called “Black leaders” are criticized by those one “the right” for always saying negative about the U.S. but never for saying the positive and the progress the U.S. has made.
I think that criticism is fair and correct.
So, when those on “the right” condemn Blacks but fail to show how Blacks are also striving and also trying to solve problems, is it not fair to point that out?
On the other hand, there are many who think that GOOD behavior in the black community does not need to be highlighted any more than good behavior in any other community because they expect the SAME level of excellence (this is strictly rhetorical
Most Blacks are behaving as expected by society. Then why is the Black community judged by it’s non-performing minority?
DarkStar - All INDIVIDUALS are judged by their non-performance. Most of us don’t paint people with a broad brush. But tell me, why do I get the impression that some people think that ALL White people are racist. No matter what we believe, is it not the same problem? I believe it is a minority of White people that judge the Black community. Now days anyhow, regardless of the past……………..
I guess my point of view comes down to, it is fine and correct to tell people how to prevent the start of a generational curse, but it is also correct to tell and teach people who are in a generational curse, how to break it.
So, this comment, For instance, suggestions like, “Get married and build a nest before you have children†or “Take responsibility for your own lives and accept the consequences of your actions†or “Take responsibility for your children’s education†apparently are not detailed enough for some people riles me up because, I know that just saying something is not good enough. Examples and techniques to changing behavior have to be highlighted as well. So, personally, when I state that just pointing out the problems does no good, that is where I’m coming from.
If anyone cares, I give a more detailed example in this post. The link is not meant to get traffic for me. It is meant to allow me to spout off.
DarkStar - All INDIVIDUALS are judged by their non-performance. Most of us don’t paint people with a broad brush.
Ollie North said Blacks in America are pathetic.
In “The End of Racism,” D’Nish D’Souza stated Black Americans are parasites on America.
Many public commentators, right and left, state that Blacks are not a part of mainstream America.
INDIVIDUALS!
This is the point that you’re not getting. There is too much diversity among the black population for you to continue lumping us together as part of the same whole simply due to pigment. I’m Angel. Not Black Angel. Not Hispanic Angel. Not White Angel. Angel. That’s it. My taking the time to point that out is not painting a negative picture. It’s just true.
DD, I know you don’t take responsibility for White lunatics, but I don’t have that luxury. People ask me what I think all the time. They ask me about my hair, if I can tan (yes!) and about other more personal things (Also, yes!) In any case, why is the fact that I want to emphasize the positive such a subversion of what needs to be accomplished. Don’t people need role models? Don’t people need heroes to inspire them? Mine were and still are my folks. But, some of these kids aren’t that lucky. I guess I’m waiting for the day to come when people realize that pathological behavior among us is the exception, not the rule.
DarkStar,
Where am I going wrong here? What am I missing?
Jan,
Now, it’s down to $6.
La Shawn;
With the way things are going, I predict a record-breaking number of posts on this topic!!
I’m with FL Mom. You posted an uplifting, positive story and reiterated your common sense position for solutions, but some refuse to accept the simplicity of your wisdom. It’s like you’ve always said: Some folks are contrary just to be contrary…
Back to education…
An earlier “Acting White” study which indicated no loss in popularity for Black kids who performed well in school.
One thing I can’t figure about the way this story is being discussed here…
If the kid in this Washington Post story actually called the achieving kids ‘nerds’ or ‘geeks’, then, regardless of the fact that the majority of other kids where ‘white’, why are people making this a racial issue?
For example, if 12 year old Eric Carter was ‘white’ and he was still worried about appearing nerdy or geeky, then would this story be focusing on skin-colour?
Did this boy say that he didn’t want to appear ‘white’? If so, where is the money-quote?
I went to school in a working-class town, and the ‘anti-intellectual’ attitude was rife. All the kids were white, except for two asians. Anyone that worked hard was called a ’swot’, or ‘poofter’.
Were those too, racial ‘code words’?
I doubt it.
Regards,
John
I’m much more likely to be a victim of that bad behavior than either you or DD ever will be.-Angel
Actually,I live in a largely minority neighborhood with a half-way house next door and public housing on the corner….and have been the victim of a number of crimes.
Darkstar, you cite a comment by Ollie North and we could just as easily cite shocking comments by bellhooks and a host of others. The exception does not prove the rule.
I’ve found that when people are good at finding a problem, they should also be good at presenting solutions to the problem.-Dark Star
For heaven’s sake…this is a BLOG and frankly, I don’t understand this constant presumption that it is acceptable to define what should be the purpose of someone else’s blog. Furthermore, LaShawn and others DO present solutions all day long. Perhaps you just don’t like them.
Angel;
Once again..I think that perhaps you give yourself the “privilege†of admitting that there is behavior in the black commmunity that saddens you while finding it annoying/unacceptable when others say the very same thing (but perhaps they do not elucidate in quite so delicate a fashion as you). Perhaps it is because you think that you tout the good behavior more. Whatever…
In your efforts to point out the good in the black community (and kudos to anyone that focuses on the positive) you often seem to minimize the problems that the black community is facing.
And really, how far would a blog post go if it was about functional middle class black or white America. What’s to write about that? They got up, went to work, came home, read to their kids and helped them with their homework, and went to bed…
Lastly, you still have not addressed my theory that dysfunctionality is disproportionately addressed because taxpayers are expected to fork over trillions in redistribution. I find that if folks are forced to pay for things, they are far more likely to scrutinize and complain. You can’t hardly make a case to the taxpayers about why there is a pressing need for their money while simultaneously telling them that all is well.
Believe me, jan, I get that all the time. People love telling me what and how to blog. Since I don’t comment on other blogs, I’ve never had the desire or inclination to do that myself, but there you go. From the beginning, my focus has been on building up my blog and readership. I couldn’t imagine spending so much time engaged in the futile effort of telling other bloggers what they ought to write or think. And blogging about what I don’t like about other bloggers or their posts has never been and never will be part of my mission at LBC. Frankly, I don’t have time; furthermore, watching squirrels playing in the grass is infinitely more interesting.
LaShawn;
I love the fact that you are so open about being “Queen” of your own blog, as you should be. If others want something different for dessert, let them bake their own!
DarkStar, can you give me a link to the comments by North and D’Souza?
I have not read the numerous responses, so maybe this has already been said. I did not interpret Alex’s comment as a race issue. It is a typical comment that children make who are smart but maybe don’t want to be labeled as such; especially for boys. You know, it is not cool to be considered a “nerd”.
So I guess I’m done…
That’s up to you, Angel. - Admin
Now you’re acting like a five year-old. This will be the last time I say this to you: move on and discuss the arguments, not me. If you have more to say to me, send an e-mail. - Admin
#75 DarkStar - “Have you noticed the positive links I’ve posted in the comment section from time to time with no comments from anyone?
Have you noticed the links I’ve given pointing to positive demographic data about Blacks from time to time with no comments from anyone? Well, there was ONE commment.”
What does the number of comments you get on your comments or your own blog have to do with what La Shawn posts on her blog? Yes, I’ve noticed, but I’m not the one who asked for them and then brushed them off.
And yes, I think that putting on a “ghetto patois” to make a sarcastic comment is snarky. If that means I misunderstand the word ’snarky,’ I’m sorry for mislabeling and will try to find a more appropriate adjective next time.
About the main article linked in the main post, I have this to say: I’m happy that parents are positively involved in their kids’ lives and with other parents to set a high standard for their kids. (The following is also directed at the question JohnD raised in #132 and seddy’s observation in #137.) The parents, not us, are the ones who know how their kids talk on a daily basis (not just the one quote that made it into the article), what they watch on tv, what magazines they pass around, and the parents are the ones who considered all these elements before coming to the conclusions and making the statements that they did. If they detected a racial element as one of the factors, they thought it was important to address that in a holistic approach to improving school and life performance. Every parent should be this caring & involved regardless of whether they’re black, white, olive, or purple with green spots. I’m happy that the article was featured in a prominent, national newspaper and not just in a local paper or an obscure academic pamphlet or even just a blog.
p.s. to Jan: It still doesn’t seem like you’ve fulfilled Angel’s request in #106 about citing where Angel and/or DarkStar were condoning lowered expectations for blacks. I don’t remember them ever doing that. They usually give examples of current events, but I don’t get the impression that they want any bad things to stay the same or degrade.
Thank you FL Mom…Someone is “listening”. What Jan doesn’t get that everyone doesn’t know everything about the black community such as it is. Especially when the media only focuses on the negative. I think it’s only responsible to point that out. I’ll take it a step further. There are some folks who can’t be saved. So, the people who are doing the right thing should be lauded because positive reinforcement can only be good. I don’t know how that gets twisted the way it has by some of the commenters.
Jan,
Are you saying that you wouldn’t be here if not for the negative stuff?
This is the best comment thread I’ve ever read on LBC. I mean the ABSOLUTE best!!!
Angel - Don’t give up so easily, dear. I’ve been around for 2 years and they haven’t run me off yet. Stop trying to get Jan to understand your point of view. She isn’t. I figured that out a long time ago. She’s just going to have something to say to your comments but consensus. Now that’s just too much like right.
Angel says “Thanks” for your comment, Tiffany. - Admin
Angel,
I am not preaching here, just trying to be helpful.
Each of us has our own version of “reality” which is made up of our experiences and how we have internalized them. (I had an enormously loving and productive upbringing in an orphanage. I tend to think orphanages can be a good thing; Oliver Twist would disagree.)
Often we confuse our view of “reality” with “truth” and the anecdotes that underlie our “reality” become confused with “facts.”
We should all be cautious of people who “know” the truth when in fact they are expressing their “view of reality.”
I bring this up, because of this one sentence you wrote: “I choose to write about people like my family and others like my family because I have an obligation to show the world the whole truth about my people, not a small piece of it.”
The Color Purple, Porgy and Bess, Soul on Ice, Why Does the Caged Bird Sing, etc. may all speak “truth” to someone’s view of reality, but they are hardly universal “truths.”
You write for the screen. You have the power to construct and manipulate experiences to reach the outcome you desire to portray. That is the writer’s craft. But it is not “reality”, even when it is autobiographical.
Psychiatry is the art of opening someone’s mental scrapbook and finding the parts and pieces that under-gird his belief system and his view of reality.
From reading your statements, I detect someone who is proud, accomplished and fiercely independent. I am not certain what sets you off, but you do seem to have a strong belief system that sometimes puts you on the attack. It might be better if you concentrated more on expressing your belief system and backing it up.
I do not keep company with all conservatives. Some of them are blooming idiots and some are dumber than mud. Nor do I shut out all liberals. Some are quite able to make substantial points backed by solid example and research.
Hopefully, you, too, can accept varying points of view with the understanding that formal arguments can only exist with the understanding that each side has agreed to disagree. Everything else is a cat fight.
(Formal argument being the agreement to disagree comes from Aristotle.)
And with that, let’s bring this thread to a close. Each side has presented its arguments, and that’s a good thing. But it’s becoming a tad too personal for my taste.
Check out the latest on the Duke lacrosse mess:
http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2007/02/26/nifong-hits-the-circuit/
Thanks for participating, everyone!
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