Update: Commenter Renee dropped a link to this story, one I’d planned to look into:
“The Cherokee Nation’s vote this weekend to revoke the citizenship of the descendants of people the Cherokee once owned as slaves was a blow to people who have relied on tribal benefits…In Saturday’s special election, more than 76 percent of voters decided to amend the Cherokee Nation’s constitution to remove the estimated 2,800 freedmen descendants from the tribal rolls, according to results posted Sunday on the tribe’s Web site. Now the tribe is defending itself against accusations of racism.”
I haven’t followed this incident, so I don’t quite know what’s going on. If you do, feel free to discuss it in this thread.
—————————————————————————-
In another “You’ve got to be kidding” moment,†I received an e-mail from Senator Sam Brownback’s “people†about a resolution apologizing to American Indians “on behalf of the people of the United States to all native peoples for the many instances of violence, maltreatment and neglect inflicted on native peoples by citizens of the United States.†(See The Politico story)
First, Brownback is probably a nice enough man, but I’m disappointed that a conservative would come up with this tripe. And this isn’t the first time he’s drafted such a resolution; I’m just now finding out he’s been “pushing” this nonsense for some time.
Second, Brownback uses the term “Native American” (on his blog) I have just as much claim to that label, since I was born right here in America. I am a native American. Anybody born in America is a native of America (children of illegal aliens, too? not if I ran things). If by that term one is referring to the people here long before white Europeans arrived, then find a more accurate term to describe them. “American Indian†may not be accurate, either, but it seems to work just fine. It offends no one but bored white liberals with nothing better to do than bit** and moan about…I’ll let it go for now. 
Third, I asked Brownback’s person why Brownback put forth such a resolution. It turns out that he read a book –– that’s right, a book –– about past racial injustices, and started wasting taxpayer’s money drafting empty resolutions presuming to apologize to American Indians “on behalf of the people of the United States.â€
I mean, this sort of junk is characteristic of white liberals, who waste their time and our tax dollars issuing nonsensical and ineffectual apologies, not conservatives!
Fourth, how far back should we go with this apology nonsense? [Note: Whoa! It’s been a long time since I deleted something in a post I thought was too controversial. The statement I’m deleting has been dissected and debated for centuries. I don’t want this thread hijacked with that highly charged discussion, so I’m deleting my reference to it. I’ll save it for another time and a different post.] While somebody’s drafting that resolution, let’s ask Arabs all over the globe to apologize for their people’s part in the American slave trade and the slave trade still going on in Africa. Yeah, that’s the ticket. If ever a blanket apology was warranted, it’s one from present-day Arabs to present-day black Africans.
Here’s a blanket “on behalf of†apology I’d support: If all the black thugs in every prison in the country got together and apologized for killing, terrorizing, and maiming their own people, I’d be their biggest supporter.
Fifth, how can I or any other black person accept an apology on behalf of someone else? I wasn’t wronged. The injustice wasn’t perpetrated against me. How presumptious and misplaced would it be for me to say, “OK, I accept the government’s apology for enslaving my great-great-great granddaddyâ€?
I hate it, hate it, hate it. After all the apologies are issued for everything that every government as ever done wrong to its own people and those of other nations, can we please just shut up about it already? I mean, come on! If only these meaningless apologies would stop the bit**ing and moaning…Good grief, I’m blowing a gasket.
In conclusion, I say to any white person or black person or yellow person or government purporting to apologize to me for harm they caused my ancestors, apology not accepted. 
If, on the other hand, my government wants to apologize for forcing me to bear the burden of uninsured illegal aliens who drink, drive, and kill people and whose medical care I have to pay for, and for its failure to come down HARD on companies that hire illegal aliens…
…apology not accepted.
PS: Senator Brownback isn’t the issue here; it’s politically correct, misguided, empty “apologies†like his resolution. So if you’re reading this senator (or senator’s people), try not to take it too personally.
What’s next for these PC asshats?? Do we apologize to Japan for dropping the nukes??
Georgia brought a thing up today, an apology for slavery Black Ga. Lawmakers Urge Slavery Apology and I really think this has gone on for WAY too long…
Comment by TexasFred — 03.08.07 @ 2:54 pm
The reason apology resolutions come up is because the events being apologized for actually happened, believe it or not. It’s a non-issue for most people. It doesn’t affect them one way or the other. It’s symbolic of the fact that we recognize what we’ve done wrong in our past and it’s a vow to never repeat the same mistake(s) again.
I don’t understand the point of being riled up by this. These resolutions are not about assigning guilt. It’s about our country being mature enough to admit when it’s wrong and accepting responsibility for it. And, because I’m so sure someone will say, “Hey, they wouldn’t get away with this is North Korea!”. That is the point. We are not North Korea. We are America and we are the embodiment of freedom and when we fail to live up to that promise, we should acknowledge it.
Comment by Angel — 03.08.07 @ 3:12 pm
Not to mention that it reeks of rhetoric.
My question is how can a state apologize for the actions of individuals long dead? I can express sorrow over something that my ancestors may have done, and I can acknowledge their sin/crime for it, but I cannot apologize for them.
Of course, my ancestors were dirt poor Georgia peanut farmers, as was the majority of antebellum South.
Comment by Suzanne — 03.08.07 @ 3:24 pm
I feel that the apology itself is ineffective; it won’t correct past wrongs, for what is done is done. However, something inside me tells me that it’s just the decent thing to do. If an institution wrongs a person or a group of people then shouldnt that institution or representatives of said institution, at the very least, express their regret that such wrongs took place. Of course the apology itself is innocuous, at best, when it comes to bettering the lives of the offended party, but it seems like it is the humane thing to do. After all, the American government did just about wiped out (killed) the American Indian population and treated these people in the most barbaric manner (trail of tears), so if a representative of the American government wants to express his condolences that the institution that he represents has harmed a race of people then I dont see the harm in that.
Comment by Jeff Turner — 03.08.07 @ 3:27 pm
I want my apology from the British for the murderous way they treated my Irish ancestors. I also want an apology from every nation involved in the persecution and/or death of my Mennonite ancestors.
Comment by redbeard — 03.08.07 @ 3:28 pm
It may be a “non-issue” for “most” people, but it bothers enough people. Such empty, idiotic apologies do nothing more than maintain simmering racial tensions. Of course slavery was awful, but an apology resolution? Come on. Pure politics, nothing more. And whether or not “most” people think it’s a “non-issue,” I think it stinks. The day I allow what “most” people think to influence how I should feel or think is the day I’ll…
Comment by La Shawn — 03.08.07 @ 3:32 pm
My question is how can a state apologize for the actions of individuals long dead?
Because that state took actions on behalf of those individuals.
Comment by Angel — 03.08.07 @ 3:33 pm
These resolutions/apologies/mea culpas are worthless and meaningless.
Comment by Tiffany in Houston — 03.08.07 @ 3:34 pm
I’m going after the Moors for what they did to my Spanish Ancestors and the Romans for what they did to my German Ancestors.
Comment by Rancher — 03.08.07 @ 3:40 pm
I think slavery “bothered” people more.
Comment by Angel — 03.08.07 @ 3:40 pm
The state cannot apologize for wrongs done by individuals.
The state can (and should) express regret, but to be so arrogant as to express an apology on behalf of someone who might not even feel regret (were they alive and kicking) renders the apology meaningless.
Comment by Suzanne — 03.08.07 @ 3:45 pm
LaShawn,
I don’t recall anyone trying to influence what you think. Again, it’s symbolic. If it’s meaningless to you, it is. But, if it’s of value to someone, what’s the harm? And, how could racial tension simmer any more or less because of the resolution(s). The resolutions claim institutional(governmental) responsibility.
All I can do is stretch out my arms and yawn.
Comment by Angel — 03.08.07 @ 3:48 pm
You’re right. I’ll just let it go and blog about more important things. Thanks for helping me with my issues.
Comment by La Shawn — 03.08.07 @ 3:52 pm
Suzanne,
I guess you’re right, but it’s also strange to care about what dead people think, isn’t it?
Comment by Angel — 03.08.07 @ 3:52 pm
LaShawn,
I know this matters to some folks…I’m just not excited about it. I’ll sit this one out.
Comment by Angel — 03.08.07 @ 3:53 pm
LaShawn,
The apologies only bother me if there’s a hint of “reparations” involved. Otherwise, it’s just an acknowledgement of wrongs done. I find it amusing because I’m one of many Americans with European, American Indian and West African ancestry…so to some degree, I’m apologizing to myself.
Comment by Linda — 03.08.07 @ 4:09 pm
After reading this, I’m embarrassed to be white.
Comment by Tucker — 03.08.07 @ 4:36 pm
“We are America and we are the embodiment of freedom and when we fail to live up to that promise, we should acknowledge it.”
what crap!
I think we lived up to it when we decided not to tax them (like the rest of us) and gave them multi-million dollar casino empires. Now that’s reparations!
Comment by Chucky — 03.08.07 @ 4:43 pm
I see a lot of folks throwing in their .02 worth that really outta give BLOGGING a try, they’re very opinionated in La Shawn’s comments, but what would happen if they threw it out there on their own site??
Would you get readers??
Would you allow others to throw open criticisms at you as much as you throw them at others in your comments??
And would you be considered a libber if you did blog??
Veeeery interesting…
Comment by TexasFred — 03.08.07 @ 4:44 pm
To whom it may concern,
I want to apologize for the wrongs committed against you by your own family members if it will make you feel better.
I feel better myself just for apologizing for something that I did not do to someone who I do not know.
Of course, my apology is only symbolic at most and sarcastic at least.
Does anyone else require an apology of any kind so that they can get over their misery and on with their life?
For those who really can understand, repentance can only be made by the person who committed the wrong, whether the wronged accepts it or not. Forgiveness is given by the wronged, whether the person who committed the wrong ever regrets and confesses it.
Whoever is incapable of forgiveness really should not be looking for an apology.
PS-#17 Tucker, Don’t be embarrassed, being born white was your parents fault, whether it was natural genetics or an abnormality. Unless, you induced that color upon yourself.
Comment by RaLph — 03.08.07 @ 4:47 pm
Once the US government is ready to fully uphold the Dawes Act, which is LAW that was of course signed by a US President. I’m sure the Indians will feel our government is serious about feeling remorse.
Bush has done nothing with it and neither did the supposed first Black President.
Comment by IndependentConservative — 03.08.07 @ 4:55 pm
LaShawn and fans. Please visit http://www.vdare.com and do a search on Senator Brownback. He’s a refugee shill and open borders hack.
He’s no friend of conservatives.
Regards
Buck
Comment by Bucktowndusty — 03.08.07 @ 4:58 pm
Here we go. EVERYBODY HEREBY APOLOGIZES TO EVERYONE FOR EVERYTHING! Done. Now let’s not hear another word about apologies so we can do productive things with the precious little time God has given us.
Comment by Bill — 03.08.07 @ 5:08 pm
Your comment is duly noted. I have saved it and will discuss it when I revive this topic. - Admin
Comment by batyah — 03.08.07 @ 5:09 pm
Hmmm.
Why oppose it?
1. It’s dumb.
2. It’s really dumb.
3. It’s a waste of time, which Congress likes, because it allows these twits in Congress to do make-work rather than real-work.
4. Nobody believes in these things. Neither those giving nor those getting. It’s political butt-kissing Kabuki theater.
5. Once you open the floodgates then every single derivative group will want it’s own special apology.
6. Often there’s nothing to apologize for.
Frankly my family has an old history in helping drive indians out of New England. Am I sorry about this? Fat chance. Indians had their opportunities and they flubbed them and now they’re whining about it. Tough break.
Comment by ed — 03.08.07 @ 5:18 pm
Your comment is duly noted. I have saved it and will discuss it when I revive this topic. - Admin
Comment by Yankev — 03.08.07 @ 5:20 pm
As someone who is descended from a tribe that is now genuinely extinct, I reject this apology outright.
There is no one alive today who can be held “responsible” for the destruction of my ancestors, not even the Seminoles.
The only ones of my Timucua ancestors who survived were those who married Spaniards and whose families stayed in St. Augustine, to where my ancestors were traced. The rest were wiped out when the Creeks went south through Florida and became the Seminoles. And…
Ooops! The Timucua were wiped out by the Seminoles, not the nasty ol’ Euros!
Never mind :D.
Brief Timucua History
Still… same thing. Apologies delivered by someone who is not responsible for whatever crime is perceived are empty platitudes delivered by an empty suit.
And it isn’t so much the empty gesture as it is the buying into the “victim” mentality that is causing entirely too much finger pointing in today’s society. This is all part and parcel of the victim mentality curse plaguing the entire world today. It has to be stopped somewhere.
And refusing to accept empty rhetoric is one way the line CAN be drawn readily.
Comment by mamapajamas — 03.08.07 @ 5:20 pm
My link didn’t take…
Brief Timucua History
Let’s see if I have better luck with this one
Comment by mamapajamas — 03.08.07 @ 5:23 pm
Six posts and counting, Angel? I don’t think that constitutes “sitting this one out.” You may be sitting on the fence, playing devil’s advocate, veiling your opinion, or simply confused, but “sitting out” equals “zero posts.”
Not six!
Comment by Dan — 03.08.07 @ 5:46 pm
Stand back! I’m going to throw a brick into the crowd.
All over the world we have the history of the conquerors and the conquered. The conquered are the ones who got their chops busted and their goodies stolen.
In some cases, the conquered rose up and tossed the conquerors out and got even and then some. In some cases, the conquered were absorbed into the new order. In some cases, the conquered sat around and festered.
Skip down past Phyllis Chester and there is LaShawn taking on Slavery in America.
American Slavery is a piece of history. It appears a lot of whiners today almost need it to compensate for real and imagined skin color discrimination. It lends power and meaning to their complaints.
There are plenty of Native Americans mired in social pathologies on reservations and soaking up perfectly useful federal funds. Of course, they could move out of their neighborhood and get on a productive track. But then they would have to leave the”tribe” and its contagion of problems.
Personally, I don’t see much difference between living on a reservation or being tied to a community that can’t let go of being miserable because somebody was a slave back in the day.
If you want an apology, call Bill Clinton. He told the Japanese that “we” are sorry for Hiroshima. Apologies come cheap and easy from those who have no investment in the game.
Am I sorry my great grandfather was owned by your great grandfather or vice versa? Not in the least. But if you think you are going to get a piece of me over what my great grandfather did or didn’t do, you are nuts!
Hallmark needs to have an official “apology” card section for those who are really hung up on past wrongs. There could be cards from the children of Nazis for the relatives of victims of the concentration camps, Idi Amin cards, Pol Pot cards, Dafur cards and even cards to atone for Nat Turner’s victims.
Geezsch!
Comment by Heliotrope — 03.08.07 @ 5:47 pm
Heliotrope… Great post :D.
re: “Am I sorry my great grandfather was owned by your great grandfather or vice versa? Not in the least. But if you think you are going to get a piece of me over what my great grandfather did or didn’t do, you are nuts!”
… and reparations demands are even worse. If anyone EVER persues this again, my sisters and I have resolved to gather together a few other Timucua descendents we know in St. Augustine and demand ownership of Florida! LOL!
We’re just joking about that, of course… the Seminoles stole their lands from us fair and square! Old news… move along…
Comment by mamapajamas — 03.08.07 @ 5:55 pm
I mean, come on! If only these meaningless apologies would stop the bit**ing and moaning…
Yeah. It wouldn’t bother me so much (other than being annoyed that I’m on the hook for something that happened hundreds of years before my parents met) if I thought anyone would say, “OK, we accept your apology–thanks, now let’s get back to business.” Except “business” is grievance and guilt-mongering; even if they do accept the apology and move on it will only be about 10-15 years (another generation of schoolkids) before different activists start the process all over.
Comment by Radish — 03.08.07 @ 6:02 pm
So if my grandparents are from Slovenia, Estonia and Finland who owes me an apology?
PS They didn’t get here until the 1900’s so don’t expect me to apologize for whatever was done…
I’m not sure what was more interesting, the blog or the conversation that followed…
Comment by Greg Laurich — 03.08.07 @ 6:05 pm
I see a lot of folks throwing in their .02 worth that really outta give BLOGGING a try, they’re very opinionated in La Shawn’s comments, but what would happen if they threw it out there on their own site??
I thought that’s what the comments section was for. Am I mistaken?
Comment by Angel — 03.08.07 @ 6:29 pm
That’s seven…ooops, eight now, Dan!
Comment by Angel — 03.08.07 @ 6:30 pm
I dislike this type of waste of time because it is pandering and masturbatory, just like the non-binding resolution. In that way, it is smoke and mirrors, meant to distract, confuse, and deceive.
Trey
Comment by Trey — 03.08.07 @ 6:45 pm
Angel…
I do blog, our host is just better at it than I am right now.
And it’s a good thing it’s just 2¢ we’re putting in because I’m a bit strapped at the moment…
PS hold down the ALT key and type in 155 to get the ¢ symbol…
Comment by Greg Laurich — 03.08.07 @ 6:50 pm
I guess I better get back to sitting around and festering…I mean revising my script, finishing the final edit on my short film and working on the score.
Comment by Angel — 03.08.07 @ 6:53 pm
I’m sorry, Greg. I was quoting the comments from TexasFred # 19. I should have made that clear. I don’t want to take credit for those words.
Comment by Angel — 03.08.07 @ 6:55 pm
Angel,
I had a thought though… If a thread gets hijacked does it get threadjacked or blogjacked? 
No offense taken, you’ll have to do better than that! I actually missed TXFred’s comment so I didn’t know you were commenting on his comments about the comments that had commented on the comments about our host’s blog.
Comment by Greg Laurich — 03.08.07 @ 7:22 pm
I know little more about this than the average American. My grandfather came to America in the 20s and had a family here. I guess that gets my family off the hook.
Anyway, I suspect what Brownback means is he wants to acknowledge the injustice done to the people who lived here before all the immigrants came from Europe. I have to respect the intent, but would question the method.
Perhaps the best thing we can do is learn from the history of it all. I am sure the European immigrants did not believe, at the time, they were practicing genocide. They felt they were at war with the “redskins.” “Facts” then incited and reinforced the violence and extermination. Even when there were not good reasons to push the Indians further West, “reasons” were created to justify the carnage.
I do not know of any American who is proud of this history. At best we can acknowledge it as a tragedy from which most of us have unintentionally benefited, the worst is to say ‘hay man, don’t look at me, I was not there,” Or, S*^*t happens.
In any event, we can learn from it. Even presumably good people can do brutal things. Let’s make sure we are not perpetrators in our lifetimes.
Comment by Andrew — 03.08.07 @ 7:32 pm
Mamapajamas,
From your post #27, it sounds like you would prefer we all move on. Given you are more in the “game” than I am, I feel I need to respect that. I am not sure there is much else we can do anyway. If there is please let me know.
I would be interested in hearing from someone that lives on a non-casino reservation. Do they need any help at all? I know we are not our brother’s keepers but we may be able to do something more effective than screaming “get to work you lazy b****rd.” Unless of course that will work. If it did work it sure would save a lot of trouble. But, like many things, if it were that easy, it would have worked already. Given we live in the shining star of democracy throughout the world, we may want to try something more effective than screaming.
Comment by Andrew — 03.08.07 @ 7:46 pm
Right on! As part Amerindian, I 1. decline the title of “Native American” for the same reasons you state, 2. decline the option of being part of a subgroup in favor of being an American, and 3. hate this whole nonsense protesting the naming of sports teams as Apaches, Comanches, etc. (”It’s so demeaning being equated to animals like Mustangs, Tigers, Eagles,” and to Spartans, Titans, Warriors, etc., I suppose?) And as part Dutch, I ask why the Dutch, whose New Netherlands was usurped by the English, don’t get an apology or status as a minority. If you give it to some, where do you stop?
Comment by Dooz — 03.08.07 @ 7:57 pm
My wife is a black African woman (born and raised in Africa). I am a white man who lived and worked for much of his adult life in Africa. Our son has both bases covered (Africa and America).
We hereby officially claim the title of “African-Americans” and give poachers like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton the heave-ho.
So, Senator Brownback, if you get the sudden and mysterious urge to apologize to us African-Americans, please just send cash instead (in small, unmarked bills).
Comment by Mwalimu Daudi — 03.08.07 @ 8:21 pm
>>I am sure the European immigrants did not believe, at the time, they were practicing genocide.>>
Many of the indians died of smallpox, which was spread by blankets given to the indians. The blankets were either traded in commerce, or given in charity. The Europeans had a limited acquired immunity so that the number of their deaths was lower percentagewise, and were not as devasting to the population as were the number of deaths in the indian communities, as they had no immunity.
They felt they were at war with the “redskins.â€>>
Which they were. Don’t ignore the fact that the redskins were ferocious warriors, not just meek sheep-like natives who were over-run by the europeans. If they had had European technology and the nearly unlimited population that the Europeans had, they might well have won. They were _tough_ fighters. In your sympathy, don’t dishonor them by minimizing their fighting skills!
>>Even presumably good people can do brutal things.>>
Are you talking about us or the indians??? There was a reason men saved bullets for his woman and one for himself.
Comment by suek — 03.08.07 @ 8:21 pm
Like a few others here, I believe I can comment based on consanguinity (although blood quantum iasn’t an issue, having a relative on one of the official rolls prior to the ToT is enough for official membership within the Eastern Band.)
So although I was given up for adoption as a young child, my biological family, who is Cherokee (some traditional, some not) decided to “find” me (umm, I wasn’t lost!) when I was in my late thirties and proudly proclaim me a member of the eastern Band of the Cherokee. I was jokingly told I could get “free cheese”.
Not only do I not want free cheese, I don’t want some smarmy, assinine, platitude mouthing politician extending an apology to me that is as worthless as teats on a boar hog.
That’s my opinion, Angel, and I am entitled to it.
Comment by Suzanne — 03.08.07 @ 9:16 pm
Suek,
I don’t disagree with anything you say and certainly do not feel that I, in any way, diminished the fighting ability of the Indian warrior.
I do know from my limited reading, in this area, that we often drove a hunter gatherer population off their lands and when we did make “deals†we quickly broke them. My impression is that we have also not done the best job of keeping our promises to this day. I give you the management of Indian money, by our government, and the transferring of Indian children to schools in the early part of this century, where they were not allowed to practice their culture or language as examples.
Perhaps none of this was done with bad intent. The fact is that until we arrived, Indians had survived, and prospered, for thousands of years. Our arrival was not a good thing for them. It seems to me that there are plenty of things not to be proud of in this whole episode. There are also great examples of human resilience. I do not believe that it diminishes me or the original Americans to acknowledge the loss.
Comment by Andrew — 03.08.07 @ 9:27 pm
Hey La Shawn,
While Brownback is wasting tax payer dollars on this tripe, the Cherokee Indians did the following:
“The Cherokee Nation’s vote this weekend to revoke the citizenship of the descendants of people the Cherokee once owned as slaves was a blow to people who have relied on tribal benefits.”
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/04/cherokee.freedmen.ap/index.html?eref=rss_us
Thanks, Renee! - Admin
Comment by Renee — 03.08.07 @ 9:44 pm
Whew, I’m glad I never came to depend on that free cheese.
Comment by Suzanne — 03.08.07 @ 9:48 pm
Andrew,
Omar Khayyam:
The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it. [545]
——
The Indians lost. If they are sitting on a reservation that won’t grow weeds yearning for the past, they definitely have no future. The world has passed them by.
Comment by Heliotrope — 03.08.07 @ 9:59 pm
While I lament the result of the Cherokees’ vote, I think that we must respect their constitutional process. Chief Justice Marshall ruled (in about 1830) that the Cherokee Nation was a domestic nation that had certain autonomous rights (but subordinate to the U.S. Constitution as it stood in those pre 14th-amendment days). So, while I will not advocate an interference with their vote, I will cherish the hope that the Cherokees themselves will reconsider.
Comment by Gilbert Brahms — 03.08.07 @ 10:14 pm
I didn’t depend on the free cheese but it dang sure was used to make some of the best mac’n'cheese I have ever tasted.
For the people who say, essentially, “stop whining,” do you say the same for those in The South who keep bringing up “The Northern Aggression”?
Comment by DarkStar — 03.08.07 @ 10:49 pm
That’s my opinion, Angel, and I am entitled to it.
Hey, don’t try to drag me into this again!
If you’re quoting somone, why don’t you use quotation marks or italics? - Admin
Comment by Angel — 03.08.07 @ 11:04 pm
Andrew, re: “From your post #27, it sounds like you would prefer we all move on. Given you are more in the “game†than I am, I feel I need to respect that. I am not sure there is much else we can do anyway. If there is please let me know.”
There isn’t anything that can be done at this point. The Timucua are gone. Apologies won’t bring them back, and neither will pointing fingers of “blame” on the Seminoles… they were passing through and apparently got into a squabble of some sort with the locals. No one knows the full story on that. Oddly enough, those that survived in St. Augustine did so because of the protection of the Spaniards, so the Timucua legacy is reversed from most.
And it isn’t as if I’m carrying a chip on my shoulder about this. The Timucua were my “people”, but so were the Spaniards, English, Irish, Dutch, and Cherokees.
My prior post was more in the way of expressing annoyance at the pandering to the victim mentality than anything else. The fact is that I don’t spend any more time worrying about the Timucua than I do about the Celts of my British ancestry. It was a long time ago, and there is no one alive today who was responsible, nor is there anyone alive today who was harmed.
As for the other Amerinds who are living in poverty today, I have no answer. The only suggestion that I can make is that they seek their fortunes off the reservation, as most of the rest of us do. How many of us still live in the town where we were born?
Comment by mamapajamas — 03.08.07 @ 11:32 pm
Oh, I get it now - the chumps in Washington D.C. must be allowing a wide open southern border as their way of “apologizing” for what’s considered by Mexico as our stealing from them the land that is now CA, AZ, NM and Texas..
Comment by Dave in AZ — 03.09.07 @ 12:18 am
Dave, you better add Nevada to the list as well. I drive by many of them every day on the way to work. Some apology. When do those chimps, er chumps apologize to me for all my money they waste?
Comment by Greg Laurich — 03.09.07 @ 1:24 am
Gilbert Brahms: So do you also advocate sovereignty for Pacific Islanders in Hawaii?
Native Hawaiians want to break off from the United States and don’t feel they should be subjected to Constitutional Law similar to “Native Americans”.
And yet, both “Native Americans” and Pacific Ilanders in Hawaii still want the largess of tax supported welfare and free land.
Under the Native American Act, every tax-paying citizen has to support a people that don’t recognize the American Constitution, aren’t subject to our system of Law, and don’t pay a dime of their own taxes on all the free land the Government has doled out to them vis-a-vie the “Native American Act”.
And of course gambling is considered theraputic.
Gambling simply rights all the wrongs committed against these unfortunate souls, right?
No taxes paid off their gambling profits either. The “Native” Americans aren’t subject to a Gaming Commission and have a free reign to engage in any kind of corruption, graft, bookmaking, and fraud all via the “Native American Act”.
I’ve been saying what a racket this sham of the “Native American Act” is, for years. And how we need to abolish it, especially now with the Indian Casinos.
La Shawn has finally finally finally done a post on it.
Does anyone know where the Hawaiian Pacific Ilander thing stands?
Comment by Glamchild — 03.09.07 @ 1:40 am
Oh, just for fun:
Dear Mrs. Hanley,
I apologize that the as of yet non-existent American government failed to protect your ancestors from a raid of the indigenous people where they were perhaps unlawfully (by today’s standards) placed in order to establish a settlement in this nation. I apologize that the non-existent American government did nothing to help the two surviving children who then had to rely on other indigenous people to walk from Virginia to Ohio, where they were cared for by an uncle.
I apologize that, due to the color of your skin, you have been continually implicated in injustices done against at least two races of people, although there is no documented evidence that any of your relatives actually participated in any of these injustices.
Sincerely, whoever.
OK, all forgiven. Can we get on with something that means something?
Comment by Dana — 03.09.07 @ 2:17 am
If you’re quoting somone, why don’t you use quotation marks or italics? - Admin
That’s a good idea. Too quick on the draw.
Comment by Angel — 03.09.07 @ 10:19 am
I want an apology from France! My forbears were kicked out because they were Huguenots. And wait, I want an apology from Germany, too! My German ancestors were kicked out because they were Baptists! Oh and England! I want an apology! In the 16th century they mistreated one of my Scottish ancestors there. I want reparations! Never mind the fact that in my lifetime I have not been injured, and probably face a standard of living superior to that of my ancestor’s persecutors.
Where will this all end?
Comment by Stella! — 03.09.07 @ 10:48 am
#52 DarkStar asks: “For the people who say, essentially, ’stop whining,’ do you say the same for those in The South who keep bringing up ‘The Northern Aggression’?”
Darn right, I do. They too are joyless people who are stuck in reverse and can’t find the road ahead.
Being a fool, blinded by some distant history is chump work. Getting your hind-parts in forward motion takes determination.
When the rednecks rise again and restore the glory days of the Confederate States of America, I will change my tune. (Meanwhile, I stay out of their bars and I don’t scratch their pick-em-ups. I also don’t mix it up with Al Sharpton’s fan club. My momma didn’t raise no stupid children.)
Comment by Heliotrope — 03.09.07 @ 10:55 am
Enough With The Apologies, Already!
A few weeks ago, I mentioned that the state of Virginia officially apologized for slavery. I said it was pointless because:
1) It changes nothing, and will satisfy no one. Slavery still happene…
Trackback by Iowa Voice — 03.09.07 @ 11:02 am
>>[I do know]…that we often drove a hunter gatherer population off their lands and when we did make “deals†we quickly broke them.>>
Hunter-gatherer populations….ok. There was a problem of cultural dissimilarity…those hunter-gatherer populations made the assumption that nobody “owned” the land - they just used it. The European culture believed in land ownership. Big problem. Some europeans apparently were able to own land and compromise by allowing indians hunting rights. Obviously, many did not. Indians didn’t respect the ownership of animals grazed on the land - they poached, considering it their right since it was on their hunting grounds. There simply was going to be a problem eventually unless the Europeans just cleared out.
As for the breaking deals - the indians apparently did their share as well. As I understand it, the problem was one of the US government making deals with persons they considered the “chief” who had the right to make deals for all the indians in a group, when in fact, the indians didn’t recognize such a right and didn’t consider themselves bound by such agreements. Cultural problems again.
When two cultures clash, one will attain superiority. In this case, the European one did. Would you have it otherwise? Oh yeah…and the indians took slaves as well. As is noted by the Seminole Council. They are not only admitting they had slaves, not apologizing for it, but are even further disowning those slaves and their descendants. How politically incorrect!
Comment by suek — 03.09.07 @ 1:16 pm
“I want my apology from the British for the murderous way they treated my Irish ancestors.”
I won’t apologize, because I didn’t do it. I am sorry it happened though, it is a stain on England’s history. We were not taught the facts in school either, as usual. I finally caught up with Ireland wile travelling in County Cork, and found a lot of reading material in a cottage I rented.
Any apology by a representative government for a past injustic visited on a people, especially massacre and land theft, is a good, mature, and noble thing. All dying traits in an increasingly egotistical, greedy, untruthful, polarizing World.
Comment by JohnD — 03.09.07 @ 1:26 pm
Comments of #54 and #57:
1. I see gambling as no salvation whatsoever for the Amerindians. Yes, they have piles of money where they had none, but they also are having their traditionally high morals violated (e.g. the sexual promiscuity–I’ll just leave it at that–vs. the standards of modesty that had them protesting Disney’s portrayal of [I think it was] Pocahontas. And there’s the whole issue of the destructiveness of gambling itself.
2. Yes, many of us have moved to where work is, and so have they. For instance, the skyscrapers of NYC were built by Mohawks (who could work at those heights with no problem whatever) (and they made ‘bucks’, drove home to the tribe in their Caddies every weekend). However, guess what, all you Internet users: There’s another way now, Internet jobs. Like maybe the tribal council could work a deal with an airline for customer service. Yeah, they’d make less than for gambling and have to work for it, but I think that’s a good thing. (Also, we customers wouldn’t have to be trying to understand a South Asian accent.)
Comment by Dooz — 03.09.07 @ 2:14 pm
LaShawn, re: “Second, Brownback uses the term “Native American†(on his blog) I have just as much claim to that label, since I was born right here in America.”
I agree. Further, anyone born on this half of the planet is a native American, since “North”, “South”, and “Central” are all “America”.
In Canada, they use the term “Aboriginal Americans”, but anthropologists world over use the term “Amerinds”. The “Aboriginal” term the Canadians use is actually more accurate (it basically means, “My ancestors got here before yours did, but we didn’t evolve here, either”), but it can be confused with the Austrialian Aborigines, which, I think, is the reason anthropologists don’t use it.
But I’m with you, given that “Amerind” is nothing more than a contraction of “American Indian”.
Comment by mamapajamas — 03.09.07 @ 7:24 pm
RE: Apologizing for slavery
Do I get exempted for apologizing if 1) none of my ante-bellum ancestors who happened to be in the US (most were still in Europe) lived in Wisconsin and didn’t own slaves and 2) one of them was a Union soldier who died fighting in the Siege of Vicksburg?
Comment by class-factotum — 03.11.07 @ 10:35 am
I just returned from Puerto Vallarta, Mexico and was told by one of our tour guides (who is Mexican) that they were told they must not use the term “Black” anymore in reference to race because that is derogatory and they must say “African American” instead. ???
Pretty soon the whole world will be apologizing to one another and we will just go around dazed and confused, not knowing how to refer to one another, apologizing to everybody “just in case” and
People - these politicians are only pandering to every group they can get their grubby vote hands on. We’re not that stupid congressmen/women! Do the job we’re paying you to do, including you, Sam “Amnesty” Brownback!
Comment by dianne — 03.11.07 @ 4:03 pm
Suek wrote: “Many of the Indians died of smallpox, which was spread by blankets given to the Indians.”
You are referring to a historical hatchet job perpetrated by Ward Churchill! Ward wrote that American soldiers gave blankets infected with smallpox to Indians. He even quoted his historical source. Only a small problem, the source has no such statement!
http://hal.lamar.edu/~browntf/Churchill1.htm
Read the article, as it does mention that British soldiers are believed to have used this practice after their commander had decided against it.
Don’t feel bad, I believed this drivel for years too.
Trey
Comment by Trey — 03.11.07 @ 8:29 pm
Sunday Shorts
Barak Obama won’t take military action against Iran off the table. (Hat Tip: Lew Rockwell) Homeland Stupidity notes that Cal Poly is destroying thousands of books to make room for a Starbucks, and has silenced a librarian for objecting. My
Trackback by Area417 — 03.11.07 @ 9:20 pm
I predate Churchill - or at least my understanding of the situation does. In any case, I found this…
“In the fifteen hundreds, the American Indian population in North America has been estimated at approximately twelve million, but by the early nineteen hundreds, the population had been reduced to roughly four hundred and seventy-four thousand. It is impossible to arrive at a number for the millions of American Indians killed during this period by European diseases with smallpox the deadliest by far.
Smallpox reached what was to become the United States either from Canada or the West Indies. The first major outbreak of an infectious disease recorded on the northeastern Atlantic coast was 1616-19. The Massachusetts and other Algonquin tribes in the area were reduced from an estimated thirty thousand to three hundred (Bray). When the Pilgrims landed a year later in 1620, there was few Indians left to greet them. Many observers believe this infectious disease was smallpox.
By the end of the sixteen hundreds, smallpox had spread up and down the eastern seaboard and as far west as the Great Lakes. Stearn and Stearn estimated there were approximately one million one hundred and fifty thousand Indians living north of the Rio Grande in the early sixteenth-century, but by 1907, there were less than four hundred thousand (Bray). This decline was not due to smallpox alone. Other diseases played a role, as did intertribal warfare and conflicts with the United States. ”
(copied and pasted from:
http://www.thefurtrapper.com/indian_smallpox.htm)
I was unaware that there were those who were attributing the spread of the disease to deliberate efforts to infect the indians. My understanding was that it was a problem in the very early settlements - as early as Plymouth Rock. Smallpox was endemic to the European population - vaccinations weren’t developed until 1790s(?). It would have caused a problem in the early settlements, but not nearly the problem it would cause the natives who had not been exposed to it.
Comment by suek — 03.13.07 @ 7:44 pm
PS. The article you linked was very interesting…no doubt in my mind that Churchill twisted the material to his own purpose. What a piece of work he is!
Comment by suek — 03.13.07 @ 7:46 pm