Quotable Quotes
Two weeks ago, a Duke Chronicle reporter interviewed me about my coverage of the Duke “sexual offense” case. Though we talked for close to an hour and I said many things about the power of blogs to cover and report what the mainstream media ignore, this is what appeared in the article:
Regardless of which side they take, for many bloggers on the lacrosse case, it’s a labor of love, rather than a means for profit, because they say accepting advertisements would risk their independence.
But LaShawn Barber is different from most of the online commentators, and not only because her site is ringed by advertisements. As a black, female, Christian conservative, Barber naturally attracts attention in a case dominated by issues of race.
She has made a profession out of blogging, spending up to four hours per day on her own site-which receives 4,000 hits per day-and offering her consulting services to others.
“I’m not a feminist, and I don’t shout racism at the drop of a hat,” Barber says. “I’m very open about my faith and my politics, and that tends to make a lot of people mad-it makes a lot of black readers angry.”
With her picture and contact information directly available on the site, Barber stands in contrast to blogs written anonymously, such as John-in-Carolina, who will only identify himself as a Duke alumnus.
I’d hoped to see my blog-as-new-media quotes included, but as someone who’s interviewed people and had to leave out quotes that didn’t align with my story’s angle, I know that’s the way it goes sometimes.
Allow me to clarify one thing. My “independence” is not at “risk” because of advertisements on this site. Pajamas Media asked me to join knowing full well how edgy and controversial I can get. If I thought for one second that I’d have to be careful about what I blogged because of advertisers, I never would have signed up.
Rape in Durham
Have you heard the latest news about this rape case? Neither have I. 
Duke Bloggers
The other “Duke bloggers” are running circles around me. Hey, I can’t keep up, so I concede the in-depth analysis about liberal academia and news round-up skills to them. With the exception of John in Carolina, those blogs focus exclusively on the Duke case:
- The Johnsville News, with the most comprehensive Duke news round-up posts;
- Durham-in-Wonderland, by history professor KC Johnson, currently co-writing a book about the lacrosse case with journalist Stuart Taylor. I’d advise certain “Group of 88” members to steer clear of KC in any public discussions about this case.
- LieStoppers, which has one of the most popular Duke case discussion boards on the web;
- Crystal Mess, by lawyer Mike McCusker, who’s feeling the pressure to blog frequently
; - John in Carolina, by a Duke grad; investigating a possible conflict of interest between CrimeStoppers, Duke faculty, and the Durham Police Department
In this competitive world, you’ve got to play to your strengths. I’ll focus on an aspect of the case I’m intimately familiar with and probably more qualified to write about: the emotional factors motivating some black liberals (including certain Duke professors and journalists) to cast the white lacrosse players, proxies for all “privileged” white men, past and present, in the worst light possible, whether or not they committed sexual offenses on the night/morning of March 14, 2006. Somebody has got to write about it in a non-liberal way. And since the liberal angle is well covered, once again, I volunteer to provide an alternative viewpoint.
I wrote “probably more qualified” because I’ve felt some of those same emotions. I’m human, after all. The difference is that I resist the urge to publicly display those emotions and allow them to master me. I master them. And I have no desire to mask the emotions behind pseudo-intellectual arguments, making myself look more unintelligent in the process.
By the way, Wednesday marks the first anniversary of the “Duke rape case.” Questions:
1) What was your impression/reaction when you first heard about the so-called gang-rape committed by Duke lacrosse players? (Here’s mine, but don’t let that prejudice you.)
2) What has this case taught you about race relations in America, if anything?
You may discuss the latest in the Duke lacrosse case in this thread.
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Here is the latest on the other case.
http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/551411.html
My first reaction was I wanted to know the facts and of course we all came to know Nifong made sure no one knew the facts, not even the defense.
Unfortunately, I have learned that there are a lot of influential people in this world who I believe actually want to create a racial divide in this country. I am speaking of the Gang of 88 professors and people like Jesse Jackson who took this tragedy as an opportunity to set up a racial confrontation and divide between blacks and whites. I don’t believe they cared about the facts when this all started and I don’t believe they care about them today. I really don’t understand what motivates this type of behavior; there are undoubtedly many selfish reasons, but whatever they are, they’re destructive, and we must all work to defeat them.
My first reaction was that given the reputation that athletes have in regard to women, it was very possible for the rape to have occurred. When the dancer’s story changed, it became clear that nothing happened. I didn’t instinctively “know” that. The apparent evidence pointed me in that direction. As it should in all cases.
I learned that ever since O.J., this country has been engaged in a game of racial brinkmanship that seems to get worse every day. Bad behavior is bad behavior. I don’t care who the perpetrator(s) is/are. Justice should be done.
My first thought was, “Oh, lovely here we go again!” because I knew that the race card was going to get trotted out for all to see. After the whole Kobe Bryant debacle, I’ve been militant about the “Innocent Until Proven Guilty” part of our justice system, so I kept an open mind about the whole case. Turns out I was right to do that since the alleged victim has changed her story for the Nth time… Nifong needs to get disbarred…
1) What was your impression/reaction when you first heard about the so-called gang-rape committed by Duke lacrosse players?
I initially was on the side of the accuser and later went on record as saying that she was not credible in one of the many threads here on LBC.
2) What has this case taught you about race relations in America, if anything?
Nothing that I didn’t already know, that we are regressing steadily backwards and the only reason Jim Crow hasn’t reappeared is because the laws are actually being enforced now.
Joan Foster’s anniversary piece :
link
For every hostile stranger who carried a “Castrate” sign, wrote a scathing, inaccurate news story, or played fast and loose with our justice system and its supposed protections, I hope (the defendants) will remember other strangers who wrote a letter of support to a newspaper,
or posted in their defense on a message board, or contacted their Congresspersons demanding justice.
I hope they will see that although Nifong’s magical media tour duped the public at the outset,….. his (and Crystal’s) “Fantastic Lies “could not withstand the onslaught and scrutiny of the “little people” who rallied to their cause.
(snip)
For every stranger who betrayed these boys and their own intellect and principles for bigger audiences, or their own bias…there were TWO strangers who stood with them, because they cared about Truth.
(snip)
When Collin, and Reade and Dave recount the cruelty of this year, I hope they don’t forget to factor in all the legions of us who truly cared! We pray that will help somehow to assuage the hurt and balance the incredible hypocrisy.
First off, I am a White, female, Christian, Republican.
My first thought on hearing it was, frankly, disbelief of “Precious”. The more I read about the case, the more I disbelieved. I do not think that I was on the “side” of the Lacrosse players because I’m white and they’re white. I disbelieved the white alleged victim of Kobe Bryant as well. I believe I saw both cases the same way – “there’s a chance for some money out of this.”
I think that once again it goes to show that (most) white people really don’t care about the color of your skin, and to (some) black people the color of your skin is everything. I would say that racism exists for those that benefit from it and those that benefit from it need to ensure that it is credited/blamed at every opportunity, whether the opportunity is valid or not.
1) What was your impression/reaction when you first heard about the so-called gang-rape committed by Duke lacrosse players?
I remember wondering how a group of obviously intelligent men could do something so incredibly stupid. Then when it came out a day or two after the initial allegation that they’d specifically asked for white strippers I began to wonder what really happened, since the accuser’s story was starting to sound more like sour grapes over failing to get paid as much as she expected.
2) What has this case taught you about race relations in America, if anything?
Sadly, its only reinforced my belief that there are certain parties in the US who feel they have a vested interest in preventing a truly color-blind society from forming.
Parsing this, Brodhead now seems to be saying the remaining charges should be dropped :
http://www.wral.com/news/state/story/1232022/
AP: Should the remaining charges against the players be dropped?
Brodhead: I said in December, when the (rape) charge was dropped, that given the certainty with which the DA had spoken of that charge and that it was now dropped, inevitably it calls into question the validity of the other charges. That’s pretty much what I would still say to you. I think a year later we are all owed an answer to the question ‘is there a case here or is there not, was there ever a case here?’ The students under indictment are owed that most of all, but we’re all owed that. I think the great majority of people believe if the case had any strength to it, it would have been shown by now.
When I first heard about it, I thought it was repulsive that young men were hiring a stripper at all, much less taking advantage of her sexually or raping her, but I also felt extreme annoyance at the stripper for putting herself into an undignified position (best case scenario) or a dangerous position (worst case scenario). And then I chastised myself for “blaming the victim.” Very soon after the facts started coming out, I had my doubts about the men’s guilt, and of course, it wasn’t long before I could see that it was all a scam perpetrated by the stripper.
Individuals may try to take advantage wherever they can — that’s to be expected, I guess — but what really bothers me more are people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and Farrakhan, who thrive on stirring the pot of racial discord. These are respected leaders? I’m also bothered by the fact that they have so many adoring followers.
As for race relations, this case didn’t suddenly enlighten me. I’ve known for years that some non-whites have been taking advantage of white guilt whenever they get the opportunity. It is hard to understand why anyone would think that racism is okay for some folks but abhorrent in others.
Thanks for being a voice of integrity and strength, LaShawn. Whatever our differences, I’ve always respected you.
Thanks, batyah.
“I’m also bothered by the fact that they have so many adoring followers.”
Where did you ever get this idea, batyah? Don’t believe the hype!
“What has this case taught you about race relations in America, if anything?”
Frankly, reading some of the replies to LaShawn’s posts have shown me just how bitterly disaffected and suspicious some black people still are in this country.
I fear that these same people are exacerbating the problems between the races by sending their kids off to school with the same attitudes and prejudices. That, in my book, is among the worst forms of child abuse.
(And NO!, I am not saying there is no discrimination or blame on the white side of the equation. It just didn’t show up in the comment sections that I read.)
1) What was your impression/reaction when you first heard about the so-called gang-rape committed by Duke lacrosse players?
Wait and see.
2) What has this case taught you about race relations in America, if anything?
Class and race trumps all. Who cared about the Black people caught up in the phony Tulia, TX drug sting? Not Thomas Sowell, Sean Hannity, or other public conservatives. A Black columnist, a conservative named Gregory Kane, called them out on the matter.
Why, Helio, whatever do you mean? Please tell me you’re not referring to me. I can be as bitter and disaffected as the next guy. But, about race, I just have strong opinions.
“I fear that these same people are exacerbating the problems between the races by sending their kids off to school with the same attitudes and prejudices. That, in my book, is among the worst forms of child abuse.”
I have to say that this statement reminds me of all the white people who said post-O.J., “I wasn’t racist before, but…” Anything I say or belief I hold is not going to worsen someone’s attitude toward black people. If that’s the case, he/she didn’t have to be pushed off that cliff.
And, yes, some black people are still suspicious. I take people at face value, but if I were 60 years old and could remember Jim Crow, I would be cautious as hell.
And, before somebody like say…Jan comes out of the woodwork to call me a racist or negative or whatever. Let’s just say in the category of perosnal diversity, I have Barack and Tiger beat by an English mile.
Angel, re: “Where did you ever get this idea, batyah? Don’t believe the hype!”
Where did Batyah get the idea that Sharpton and Farrakan have a large following of adoring fans? From the alleged “news” media.
They, along with Jessie Jackson, are the “go to” people the talking heads on TV news always go to for the “black perspective” on whatever events are happening. They are also the people who draw huge crowds in demonstrations for black-oriented issues.
That’s where she got that idea.
Of course, I don’t believe that all black people idolize them… I’ve heard at least three black people I work with call all of those three “idiots” or worse at one point or another. But they DO have a huge crowd of fans… that much can NOT be denied.
1) What was your impression/reaction when you first heard about the so-called gang-rape committed by Duke lacrosse players? (Here’s mine, but don’t let that prejudice you.)
The first I heard about it was when some item of discrepancy in the stripper’s story became known to the public, and Sean Hannity started talking about it, wonding what was going on. So I started out suspicious… although in fact I was a late arrival in the story. I felt like I was walking into the third act of a play, and had to feel my way through to see what was happening. I just kept my ears open.
2) What has this case taught you about race relations in America, if anything?
Given that it led me to this blog, I’ve learned that race relations are much better in this country than the news media would have you believe. I personally know a few self-acknowledged conservative blacks… in fact, most blacks I know are conservative but don’t realize it themselves (or take deliberate action to hide it)… and I’ve found that there are a lot more of you out there than I knew of.
There’s still a long way to go to where we simply won’t notice skin color, but we’re all much better off than we were during the days I remember, back before Dr. King did so much to raise the consciousness of the nation.
But they DO have a huge crowd of fans… that much can NOT be denied.
Then can you tell us all why Al Sharpton only won ONE majority Black voting district in the last Democratic presidential primary election cycle?
#16 Angel,
I hope you will not be offended, but you did not cross my mind when I wrote #14 above.
I have a lot of years working with people with let their perceptions of reality get them down. Some of these folks cripple themselves with their prejudices.
I wrote: “Frankly, reading some of the replies to LaShawn’s posts have shown me just how bitterly disaffected and suspicious some black people still are in this country.”
LaShawn jumped on this case because it was an egregious case of trumping the obvious by playing the race card.
Those blacks who will not see the folly in the whole affair bother me a lot for the reasons I stated. If they are going to send their kids into the world with a big helping of their prejudices, then they will have wasted their opportunity to help solve the problem between the races.
Obviously, race relations are not one sided.
Mamapajamas,
Do me and yourself a favor. The next time you see Jackson or Sharpton on TV leading a march or demonstration, pick one or two people out of the crowd. Commit their faces to memory. I guarantee they will be in the crowd for the next march. It’s always the same folks, plus you have to add in the “envelope factor”, as in “some people will show up for the opening of an envelope.” And, there is the “huge” following.
If Jackson and Sharpton had so much influence, why are race relations getting better and not worse?
#22 Angel,
“The evelope factor.” I like that! I can use it fairly often. Consider it stolen.
Helio,
You are welcome to use it anytime. mama did have a good point about the laziness of the media allowing this unelected triumvirate of Sharpton, Jackson and the not long for this world Farrakhan to be held up to white America as speaking for us.
By the same token, I don’t want the media calling up Jessie Lee, Mychal or Deroy either. Let them do some legwork. Something goes down in Boston, hit the streets and find me or anyone else. Same for around the country. Remember Buckley’s famous quote about preferring to be led by the first ten names in the local phone book than politicians. I feel the same way.
The Bay State Banner is a local black weekly that has been around for at least 30 years. They have a “Roving Reporter” feature where they grab ten people from the streets of Roxbury and ask their opinion about an issue. You get a better idea of the diversity of opinion that really exists among us. And, it’s a real cross-section of blacks. They print the occupation of the person as well as their name. So you get the opinions of laborers as well as CEOs.
Angel, it’s because people like you and I are smarter than that. And our numbers are growing, like a virus… no matter what side of the petri dish we’re on.
(ref. #22)- Race relations getting better? That would depend on an individual’s experiences or perspective. In my view, the answer would be “regressingly and tragically worse”.
And on another point – it would seem to many, I would think, that only someone with “massive influence” could orchestrate a “million man march”.
Dave,
That’s your choice. How long ago was the Million Man March? 10 or 15 years? Why do you think things are worse?
Dave,
Also, if Farrakhan had as much influence as you claim, why not a Million Man March every year? Why not a 20 Million Man March? If you buy into the idea that Farrakhan represents the average black person, then you have given up on race relations.
(ref. #26) – My own point of view as to “worsening” is based not on perspective, or the media, etc., but…..let me just say, on-going personal experiences.
#
Angel, re: “Where did you ever get this idea, batyah? Don’t believe the hype!â€
Where did Batyah get the idea that Sharpton and Farrakan have a large following of adoring fans? From the alleged “news†media.
They, along with Jessie Jackson, are the “go to†people the talking heads on TV news always go to for the “black perspective†on whatever events are happening. They are also the people who draw huge crowds in demonstrations for black-oriented issues.
That’s where she got that idea.
Of course, I don’t believe that all black people idolize them… I’ve heard at least three black people I work with call all of those three “idiots†or worse at one point or another. But they DO have a huge crowd of fans… that much can NOT be denied.
Comment by mamapajamas — 03.12.07 @ 10:13 pm
Most black folk have little to no use for the usual suspects (Al, Jesse, and Louis). It is primarily white folk, and the media, MSM and otherwise that assume these to be the leaders of black folk. Fact is, most black folk are too busy trying to meet their obligations than to spend time worrying about what the stooges have to say, do etc.
As for black crowds supporting these guys, notice that times you see them with crowds, is generally at events where they are speaking or participating in events that feature many other speakers, commentators etc i.e., Tavist annual 3 ring circus otherwise none as “State of the Black Union” as well. I doubt that all those black folk show up specifically because the stooges are on the list of attendees. Heck, I think two of stooges have spoken at DNC conventions, venues that featured significant amounts of white folk. Should we assume they have massive follower ship among white folk. I think not. You have a brain, use it.
Angel, you said: “I have to say that this statement reminds me of all the white people who said post-O.J., ‘I wasn’t racist before, but…’”
Where did you encounter “all the white people” in question? In my circle of friends, the criticism and disgust was aimed at the goofy judge, the incompetent prosecutors, the 3 Stooges defense team, the brain-dead jury, and the criminal who got away with murder.
Redbeard,
Thanks for taking my comment out of context. I said that in response to this:
“I fear that these same people are exacerbating the problems between the races by sending their kids off to school with the same attitudes and prejudices. That, in my book, is among the worst forms of child abuse.â€
Then, I proceeded to say:
I have to say that this statement reminds me of all the white people who said post-O.J., “I wasn’t racist before, but…†Anything I say or belief I hold is not going to worsen someone’s attitude toward black people. If that’s the case, he/she didn’t have to be pushed off that cliff.
Did I run into these folks? Some, yes. I also saw them on TV and heard them on the radio (both national and local talks shows) making these statements. If you read what I posted, you will see I was referring to a subset of whites who specifically said that the O.J. verdict changed their attitudes toward blacks in general. I did not say all white people felt this way. Are you telling me this sentiment wasn’t out there? Because I heard it a lot. By the way, most blacks do realize that O.J. is guilty, but some will not acknowledge it publicly because it annoys folks.
I’m quite sure there are bums out there with the mean thoughts you mentioned, but I didn’t hear them. “All the white people” makes it sound widespread, and I simply don’t think it was, that’s all.
Angel,
The media swoon that Jesse and Al automatically get is quite real and it definitely affects policy and white reaction: both in time and scope.
My black friends are as tired of them as my white friends, but the whites must “respect” their media power.
Still and all, in the projects, there are many, many people who feel that Jesse and Al are the only voices out there.
Demagogues will always have followers. It is not a racial thing, it is poverty of spirit thing.
Redbeard,
Again, the group of whites I’m referring to are a subset of whites. It’s pretty clear from my post. If I posted, “All white people in general…” that would be one thing, but that’s not what I “said”.
Angel, why do you seem consumed by that “subset?” That seems to be quite a “glass half empty” way of examining this. Wouldn’t it be much more productive to cheer the massive progress made in recent decades, rather than trying to find and obsess over the remaining problems?
Redbeard,
Who’s consumed? I was responding to a post that brought a memory to mind. You misconstrued my post somehow. I think the problem is that you have a “blind spot”. By this I mean, it appears that I can’t even throw out a casual comment about some white people without you ascribing a racist motive to it.
I don’t have to find problems. Problems usually come to my attention. When they do, I address them. I’m not “consumed” by them.
Oh, come now, Angel. Have I ever accused you of being a racist? I mean, you’re a little strange for wanting a Segway, but I won’t even hold that against you.
As for the “blind spot,” it’s much more a matter of me living in a positive mindset with regard to race. I know what problems still need to be solved, but I prefer to move forward rather than stand still and point at the bad stuff. Society is not colorblind, but if we proceed on the assumption that it is, we might get a nice positive self-fulfilling prophecy going. Worth a try.
What are you talking about? Are you kidding me? So are you telling me that we can only talk about the bad things some black people do? Or, what? You’re really coming at me the wrong way now. I mean, you’re cool and all, but you’re starting to scare me. Do you think you might be having stroke symptoms or something?
You two are straight hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!! LMAO!!!
I think the above posts provide somewhat of an insight into what’s wrong with race relations today…I think we need an interpreter.
Angel said”
So are you telling me that we can only talk about the bad things some black people do?
Same thought went through my mind.
What? Are we having the same conversation here? I haven’t been talking about “bad things some black people do.” Where did you come up with that one?
I second what Dianne said @ post #41. Oye!!!
Well, I guess I need someone to edit/interpret my words. Somehow, as I was trying to describe my agenda of looking at the positives in life instead of focusing on the problems, Angel and Shade thought I was subversively blinking out an entirely different subliminal message. Or something. I dunno.
Maybe I should simply throw in the towel.
Angel, re:“Again, the group of whites I’m referring to are a subset of whites. It’s pretty clear from my post. If I posted, “All white people in general…†that would be one thing, but that’s not what I “saidâ€.”
And that’s pretty much what I’m saying. In fact, I pointed out that at least three of the black people I know I’ve personally heard call the Holy Trio “idiots”, so to speak (I can’t use the actual terms they used on a Family Forum!).
I KNOW that it’s the news media that’s been going to Jackson, Sharpton, and Farrakan. And, in fact, I’d even bet that a lot of the people who show up to hear them speak do so because there will be cameras present.
But the overall impression that is given is that they are the “last word” on what black people think.
Only a complete fool would think that the “black community” is a monolith incapable of thinking individually. Which makes the MSM…
Redbeard
I think the point is that the way that you have just responded to a person pointing out a bad thing some white people have done is quite the opposite of how you generally seem to react to the numerous discussions of bad things some blacks do.
Redbeard,
Plain and simple. I’m not a negative person regarding race. Pointing out the fact that there is a subset of jerky white people is not being a pessimist. It’s being a realist. It goes without saying (though it seems everything must be qualified on this board), there are jerky black people too. Something Helio said touched off a memory about that period of time and SOME people’s reaction to O.J
Thanks, Redbeard and I will be here all week. You been a great audience. Drive safely!
Only a complete fool would think that the “black community†is a monolith incapable of thinking individually. Which makes the MSM…
It’s not just the MSM, but conservative leading media of all types: print, audio, video, and electronic.
Can someone here who believes Sharpton is a “real” “Black leader” answer how he is a “Black leader” but he was only able to win ONE majority Black voting district during the Dem presidential nomination race?
Any takers?
Shade, you seem to have a bit of a selective memory there, if you think I’m never critical of stupid things that whites say, particularly liberal ones. And there is the issue; if we’re going to argue, it should be liberal vs. conservative, not black vs. white.
As for you, Angel, as you sign off, remember this classic: “You don’t have to go home, but you can’t stay here.” –Duke Ellington (I think)
#8
I grew up when riding the back of the bus was still common in America. Being a Black professional, I could use that fact in history as a rallying cry for all blacks to spew racial slurs toward Condi Rice and others. Instead, I have directed my attention toward education, and teaching my children that being black is not about getting revenge. It is okay to disagree with black people without being called names.
Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would not be seen supporting the white woman in the second rape case, in fear of being consider an Uncle Tom. To me it’s not about being an Uncle Tom, it’s about what’s right and fair.
What little respect I did have for Harry Belafonte disappeared when I heard his comments. He’s 80 plus years old and needs that last few minutes of fame. I feel sorry for Harry. I could waste my time calling him names but I would lower myself to his level. Harry will meet his maker soon and will have to answer to a higher power for his comments.
#18,
I cringe when I see Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton on anything. Martin Luther King they are not!!!
They don’t enpower blacks, they divide blacks!!
Dexybet @ 51 & 52… Your posts were enjoyable and refreshing! Thank you for sharing.
Redbeard,
I’m really not picking on you. I just don’t get how you expect to have “conversations” about some of these issues without getting caught in a loop…in a loop…in a loop…in a loop…in a loop…in a loop…in a loop…in a loop…in a loop…in a loop…in a loop…in a loop
DS…re: “It’s not just the MSM, but conservative leading media of all types: print, audio, video, and electronic.”
I’m having difficulty with this one, given that numerous conservative media types have been tarred as “racist” for criticizing the Holy Trio.
Good golly, RedBeard, I was down at the Lodge and just noticed you were missing! You OK?
…Jan comes out of the woodwork to call me a racist… -Angel
Angel;
I never called you a racist and I actually never said that you “promoted” lowering standards though I recognize that this is the way you perceived my remarks which is a shame really as it ended up being somewhat contentious and wasn’t what I was trying to convey. At the end of the day, I would simply like to start off on a new foot.
Pressler book due in June
http://www.heraldsun.com/durham/4-828666.cfm
Mar 12, 2007 : 10:05 pm ET
DURHAM — Former Duke University lacrosse coach Mike Pressler and Sports Illustrated magazine investigative reporter Don Yaeger are cooperating on a book about the Duke lacrosse sexual-offense and kidnapping case called “It’s Not About The Truth.”
The book, called “an explosive insider account” of the case by Pocket Books’ executive Louise Burke, will be published in June by Pocket Books’ Threshold Editions.
(snip)
The book reportedly will recount the vilification and ostracization of the team members, Pressler’s forced resignation and the subsequent cancellation of the remainder of the team’s season and death threats aimed at the players by some of the Durham community.
1) What was my first impression when I initially heard news accounts of the Duke rape allegations?
I thought to myself, “How odd,” and quickly chalked the incident up to random criminal idiocy on the part of the LAX players. Little could I have imagined then the scope of the monstrous fraud being foisted on the public. Then I thought to myself, “This man-bites-dog news story is going to unleash a torrent of race & class hustling, left-wing spew down upon the good people of this country.” “I bet Jesse Jackson is boarding his plane for North Carolina right this minute — he didn’t even bother to pack!” As the first substantiated facts emerged within a week or so via alternative media, however, the allegations were in serious doubt. A week or two after that the case was an obvious fraud to all who cared to look.
2) What has the case taught me about race relations in America?
I don’t believe the case has taught me anything, per se. Rather, it has reinforced in my mind an understanding of the simple facts of post-modern life that are obvious to all rational, unbiased observers. First, naked bigotry in this country is overwhelmingly anti-white, anti-male, and anti-heterosexual. Second, these prejudices resonate very strongly among the black population and among feminists. Third, there is a host of rabble-rousing, would-be Stalins among us ever ready to incite the mob to steal for them, though intimidation, the power they could never earn through dint of merit. Fourth, overwhelming bias among the mainstream media works to advance the cause of such demagoguery.
Helio, according to Angel I’ve had a stroke, and have forgotten the secret lodge handshake. Is it the same as the one we use over at the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy clubhouse?
I’ll get my coat…….
Redbeard,
Will you be taking the Harley to the clubhouse? I don’t if they have one jury-rigged for stroke victims?
mamapajamas,
I think the point that DS is trying to make regarding Jackson, Sharpton and Farrakhan is that the conservative media use them as boogeymen when discussing policy that may or may not impact Black America or (as I like to call it) Afrerica.
We are telling conservatives that the triumvirate has no influence on our lives. Zero. Nobody is inspired by Jesse. Unless he or she decides to talk in off-kilter cadences for fun.
Now that James Brown is dead, Sharpton needs to get style tips from somebody else. I nominate myself, of course. A wife-beater and a close cut and shave ought to do it. And Farrakhan will soon be meeting with Elijah Muhammad for some bean pie and tea.
I think it’s clear that nobody takes these guys seriously except for the MSM and conservative news outlets. Yes, conservatives are called racists for criticizing them. And the trio and conservatives get what they all want out of the deal. Somebody else gets fooled into believing blacks are mindless followers and Sean Hannity get to look like a tough guy for engaging in a battle of wits with an unarmed man (Sharpton…you thought I was talking about you didn’t you, Redbeard? Don’t swing your cane at me!)
Angel, thanks for the comments. They are very enlightening
.
However… re: “I think it’s clear that nobody takes these guys seriously except for the MSM and conservative news outlets.”
No, it isn’t clear at all to the people who get their news from the broadcast channels. I know a LOT of people who watch whatever news broadcast precedes their favorite TV program on a given night, and make no other effort to get informed… but believe that they ARE “informed” because they watch the news at all.
Becoming informed is the name of the game, and the broadcast news just isn’t cutting it.
Im having difficulty with this one, given that numerous conservative media types have been tarred as racist for criticizing the Holy Trio.
The Black community didn’t name them leaders, the media did. The conservative media uses them as stand ins for THE Black community, which they know, at least the Black conservatives know, is not valid.
Amen Darkstar + Angel,
Cause I stopped listening to Jackson as a leader after his hymietown slip- and I was in grade school.
First, naked bigotry in this country is overwhelmingly anti-white, anti-male, and anti-heterosexual. Second, these prejudices resonate very strongly among the black population and among feminists.
When did the black community become anti-heterosexual? It is the black community that is accused of “homophobia” more so than whites and the whole gay rights movement was pioneered by whites. Also, when did blacks become anti-male? White women lead the feminist charge. You left out that the whole atheist bigotry against Christians and religion in general was pushed mostly by whites.
And the notion of anti-white bigotry strongly resonating in the black community is a myth spread by people who are ignorant to reality. When you judge actions, there appears to be a sort of weird adoration for whites in the black community.
RedBeard, Angel, you two are killing me. Never laughed so much. There are a few things we know for sure:
1. The UnHoly Trio will never comment on the second rape.
2. There are black people that want the Duke Three to suffer regardless!
3. There are more prominent black people other than the UnHoly Three. Condi Rice is considered a House N&^**^. Even though she is the first black woman to be Sec of State.
4. We do have a long way to go, but we have come a long way.
5. Stop using color as a crutch and teach our young black people to be more respectful, educated and family oriented.
Just wondering – on the basis of these allegations, did the black fraternity in question get decommissioned by Duke, did it’s adult adviser(s) get fired, and have any faculty members signed a public denunciation of it?
Thomas
Lessons from the case, not learned but instead confirmed according to Uncle Ruckus, no relation, …”don trust dem black people over dere” because everyone knows that “all black folk are bad, all white folk are good”!
SteveDinMD
Yup, just practicing my naked bigotry over in the corner…or is that naked yoga? Or, maybe a little of both. Downward pale breeder…now exhale slowly…
DS…re: “The conservative media uses them as stand ins for THE Black community, which they know, at least the Black conservatives know, is not valid.”
I’ve never heard this before, and I’ve been listening to #1 and #2 for ages, Rush for more than 15 years, and Sean as long as he’s been on the air.
I’ve never heard either of them do “stand in” commentary of anyone in the black community. When they talk about the black community in general, they specifically state that they are talking about the black community in general. When they talk about a specific black person, they’re talking about that specific person. If they seguey into what those specific peoples’ followers are doing, they’re talking about the followers of those people, not anyone else.
“Stand ins”… it might behoove you to know that the white community doesn’t speak in terms of “stand ins”. We don’t have the recent (in “century” terms) history of slavery that brought about the custom of speaking in “codes” that the slave master couldn’t understand. The basic fact that the slave masters COULDN’T understand the coding, making it a success that continued to be practiced through the Jim Crow years, is Clue #1. And it still exists to a degree in parts of the black community… not in all of it by any means, but in large portions of it. So it is projected on us from others. Louis Farrakan has been one of the biggest culprits of “explaining white codes”. He’s full of it.
Of course, I can’t speak for “all” white people, but when we talk about a person, we’re talking about THAT specific person, not “coding”. The same is true of Rush and Sean. I have no clue what other conservative pundits say, since I don’t listen to them (or read them) on a regular basis.
This is the cause of a LOT of miscommunication between white and black people in general. We do NOT have the history of speaking in “codes”! Some whites do it (usually liberals in my experience) because they think it’s a clever dodge, but that is an individual trait of that specific person… the cultural tendency is NOT there. I’ve never heard of a conservative pundit who does it.
I remember a few years back (15 years? I don’t clearly recall) hearing from a Black acquaintence who is really big on “white codes” (he IS a Farrakan follower) that political candidates wearing a blue suit with a white shirt and red tie was a “code” that white racists used to identify each other.
The reality was that it was nothing more than a patriotic fashion during an election year… you know… red, white, and blue?
So, basically, I’m denying that conservative talk show hosts (at least the two biggest ones) use “stand in” codes to “speak” about the black community. When they’re talking about the Holy Trio, they’re talking about those specific people, not the “black community” in code.
I think stand-ins in this case means props or go to guys, not code.
re standins part 2: “The conservative media uses them as stand ins for THE Black community, which they know, at least the Black conservatives know, is not valid.â€
The black conservatives that know that these particular black gurus of the black communities are svengalis, in particular McWhorter, and Steele.
Reshane, re: “I think stand-ins in this case means props or go to guys, not code.”
This is a very subtle distinction. I may be learning something here
.
Can you clarify what you mean a bit? I know that the MSM have been conned into believing that the Holy Trio are THE “black leadership”, but I also know that when a white conservative criticises any of the Trio… for ANY reason… we get burned as “racist”. Even if we are criticizing something specific that one of them said.
Shade said: “When did the black community become anti-heterosexual? It is the black community that is accused of “homophobia†more so than whites and the whole gay rights movement was pioneered by whites. Also, when did blacks become anti-male? White women lead the feminist charge. You left out that the whole atheist bigotry against Christians and religion in general was pushed mostly by whites.”
SteveDinMD: I’ll concede that anti-heterosexual and anti-Christian bigotries aren’t, strictly speaking, black phenomena. They’re embraced by leftists of all races, along with their media allies. Nevertheless blacks, through their voting patterns, have done much to implicitly advance the anti-Christian and anti-heterosexual agendas, though they be largely contrary to their innate beliefs.
Joan Foster on Hoax Day March 14
http://liestoppers.blogspot.com/
Today is Hoax Day, a time to remember what we’ve learned.
(snip)
We must never forget to be watchful in our own communities, in other cases…where others are no doubt nifonged with no resources,and no recourse. We must be as vocal and strong in their support as well. Never forget we must always afford the presumption of innocence to those who are the least like ourselves,and sometimes , in our personal perspective, the least sympathetic. I for one will never again be a casual “Well, something happened” commentator…just because it FEELS good to me. . .
.
Let’s find something in this tragedy to make our own communities better, our press more accountable, our justice system less susceptible to abuse. Remember the blind ignorance of of bias directed at Collin , Reade, and Dave. Let’s reject it in any form in ourselves…in honor of what they’ve suffered…
Angel said: “Yup, just practicing my naked bigotry over in the corner…or is that naked yoga? Or, maybe a little of both. Downward pale breeder…now exhale slowly…”
SteveDinMD: I was not referring to you. I was certainly not referring to Lashawn, Thomas Sowell, etc. I’d hasten to point out, though, that Durham’s black community has lately been exposed as a hotbed of naked bigotry. Do you recall the OJ case? What about Tawana Brawley? Then there’s the NAACP, which has successfully restyled itself as the modern face of prejudice in America. I could go on, and on…
Steve,
It was a joke. I don’t know that Durham is a hotbed of racism any more than New Rochelle, NJ ( I love the Dick Van Dyke Show, sue me!). What’s instructive about the incidents you cite is that I could give you 10 for each of them. For every O.J., there are more than a few innocent black men in prison. We could play the brinkmanship game forever. What would be the point? You would get mad (or remain mad, I guess). I would get mad. People would pop into our “discussion” and call us names. I don’t know. I’m not feeling it.
What is interesting though is why it’s taking so long for some of the more prolific commenters to pop up and label you as “consumed” by race or embittered or paranoid or any number of names that have been applied to myself and others here for mentioning one incident or memory.
The NAACP that you’re describing is not one I recognize. Politically, the national leadership is not great, but on the local chapter level, they continue to do great things. Advocating for blacks isn’t anti-white. That seems to be a common perception that I’ll never understand.
Anyway, Steve. I wish you well and hope you take my comments in the spirit they were given. It’s possible you will never see things my way. But, I don’t expect you to. I just needed to put that out there.
Peace
Mamapajamas,
I don’t know about “white’ code, but I do know about semiotics. The simplest way to explain it is by example. If I speak in front of a conservative audience and denounce “special interest groups, the crowd will cheer. Why? Because I’ve used code for pro-choice, pro-gay and pro-feminist groups (Liberal positions).
If I speak in front of a liberal group and denounce “special interest groups”, I will get cheers because they think I mean pro-life, anti-gay, anti-feminist (Conservative positions).
Any political consultant worth his hefty fees will admit that “code words” or semiotics are used all the time to communicate a candidate’s message. It’s the art of persuasion (or re-enforcement) executed very smoothly.
This is what I’m referring to when I talk about code. I asked on this board before. What kind of coded message to you think Reagan was sending when he kicked off his re-election campaign in Philadelphia, Mississippi at a Fourth of July picnic? Of all the places, he could have chosen in America, this man of the people picked the site of one of the darkest chapters in civil rights history. For those of you not familiar with the facts, Philadelphia, MI was the place those three young civil-rights workers were killed with the complicity of local authorities. Some of those folks were on the stage standing behind Reagan. No mention of the atrocity that occurred years earlier. Just flags and fireworks. And a good ole’ down home barbecue.
And, why do conservatives have to earn the trust of the black community, you ask.
I’ve never heard either of them do “stand in†commentary of anyone in the black community. When they talk about the black community in general, they specifically state that they are talking about the black community in general. When they talk about a specific black person, they’re talking about that specific person. If they seguey into what those specific peoples’ followers are doing, they’re talking about the followers of those people, not anyone else.
As a long time listener of Rush, I KNOW you are incorrect. And I never wrote “code,” that is your misinterpretation. #71 is right.
And, to add to it, when he does mention “Black leaders,” more times than not, he gets it completely wrong. Here is a recent example.
Angel, I’m just curious about that as I’ve never heard it said before..can you please name which of those folks were standing on the stage behind Reagan?
Hi MamasPjs
Just like when we ask ourselves at some point in our lives why should we assimilate or follow the status quo,any thinking black person asks themselves
Who promoted this moron to be my leader,
and why should I unconditionally follow him?
(see my earlier comment # 64)
Our so called objective media wants whites to think that these fools have the undying support and unconditional devotion of blacks to constantly feed the fears of certain groups of people. They need to perpetuate the culture of fear that keeps any real change from happening.This campaign in my opinion has been extremely successful (obviously), because most whites still see these guys as dangerous,
and if 500 black folks endorse them, well oh god, they must all hate us/want to take our hard earned money from us, etc. etc.
Those “followers” that you see behind these fools are a dying breed, and do not represent the views of the majority of blacks. The majority of blacks laugh at them and their mishaps. Unfortunately, the only blacks that will lambaste these leaders publicly happen to be conservative because, well at least with Jesse, no one wants to openly criticize a major player in the Civil Rights movement. It is almost like an act of treason. However in our homes, we will laugh at everything from his philandering, to his colorful vocabulary, and why the media cannot ever seem to find anyone else to talk that is a tad more dignified.
That is why at the end of the day Jesse, and Al and “con” will never get the majority vote, I dont care how the media presents it or what white america wants to intuit about it. Its never gonna happen.
As far as the racist thing, the point is the media points out the criticism as being racist, not the black individual who could care less about anything these jokers have to say. Why is the position of the media the position of black people? They have consistently told you what we think/believe/value (filling in the blanks as needed) and you continue to buy it so why should they sell you anything different now? Oh, so you’ll get mad and say, now why is it…? I tell you its a C-O-N-spriracy! Many of us need to turn off the telly and start asking real folks about their views.
#78 Angel brings up the Philadelphia, Mississippi kick off for the 1980 Reagan campaign.
This bit of history seems to have gained a lot of currency in some circles as a view into Reagan’s heart and the hearts of Republicans in general.
For the most part, few people have any memory of where Reagan kicked off his 1980 campaign or why Philadelphia, Mississippi should ring a bell.
If Reagan was sending code to the “good old boys” or to whites, he sure blew it. You could poll every Reagan fan in the country and few would know where he kicked off his campaign. And then, when you told them where it happened they would have no idea of why that would matter.
So, it must be that Reagan (1) set out to tick off black people or (2) the choice of where to kick off his campaign was just a set of mysterious calculations.
If Reagan was bent on alienating black people, he certainly would not have chosen to be so subtle that nobody much got the message until years and years later when Roy Wilkins came up with the theory.
This story is a good example of revisionist history. It happened and the speculation of why it happened is interesting. But when it takes 20 years after the fact to take on a life, it is hardly a measure of the man or the party.
Stacey,
I was going from a faulty memory. This event occurred during Reagan’s first campaign. It was the Nashoba County Fair in Philadelphia Mississippi. Reagan made a speech praising states’ rights (more semiotics!)I’ll have more details later.
Thanks, Helio.
I was just wondering about it because I am a Reagan fan, and I’d never heard of this. I guess I just don’t travel in the right circles!
Helio,
Andrew Young called Reagan on it immediately. There’s no revisionism going on here. Except my bad memory for not remembering it was the 1980 campaign. You also don’t address any of my other points about “code”. The choice to make that speech in that place was significant and was noticed by many. In fact, a Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, Bill Wilkinson, gave Reagan his endorsement after hearing the speech (In fairness, Reagan repudiated it. But he had to be prodded by Andrew Young.)
Helio,
There was nothing subtle about the choices that were made. It’s very possible that Reagan was just along for the ride and the photo-op. But, at the time “states rights” was a very charged topic to discuss at the site of a very famous triple-murder precipitated by the resistance to the civil-rights movement in the South. If Reagan didn’t know it, his people certainly did.
I don’t want to go on about it, but it is an example of sending a message both coded and overt.
Angel said: “There was nothing subtle about the choices that were made. It’s very possible that Reagan was just along for the ride and the photo-op. But, at the time “states rights†was a very charged topic to discuss at the site of a very famous triple-murder precipitated by the resistance to the civil-rights movement in the South. If Reagan didn’t know it, his people certainly did.
I don’t want to go on about it, but it is an example of sending a message both coded and overt.”
SteveDinMD: I have to agree with Heliotrope. For a “code” to be effective one’s intended audience must be equipped with the associated codeBOOK in order to get the message. I certainly don’t have a copy of the codebook you allude to. Then, again, perhaps I missed that week’s meeting of the “vast right-wing conspiracy,” where it was handed out. %^)
I postulate there was, in fact, NO code. First, I couldn’t tell you where Reagan kicked off his 1980 campaign — neither at the time nor now — and I doubt that I’m in any way unique in this respect. Just who, then, comprised the audience you believe Reagan was sending coded messages to, and why do you believe they would at all be aware of the location of Reagan’s campaign kick-off? Second, for it having been, as you say, such a famous triple murder that occurred in Philadelphia, MI, I’ve never heard of it. The memory you invoke doesn’t have nearly the same resonance as, say, the memory of Scottsboro, AL. Having awareness of the location for Reagan’s campaign kick-off, how many of your presumed “code listeners” would know of the events that occurred there years earlier? Third, during eight years in office, the Reagan Administration didn’t pursue a policy of either encouraging or tolerating the murder of civil rights activists, nor did it pursue a policy of re-segregation. Would not a political constituency “sophisticated” enough to decipher the subtle coded messages you attribute to Reagan also be able to detect his lack of follow-through on this supposed hidden agenda? Being thus disappointed, would they not have been expected to have politically abandoned him? If they DID abandon him, they were so insignificant that no one noticed, and if so insignificant, they wouldn’t be worthy of being so subtlely courted in the first place. Frankly, the “codes” seem to be more a product of your own mind than of political calculation on Reagan’s part.
By the way, “States’ Rights,” as a political concept, has undergone quite a metamorphosis from the days of its first use as a term denoting a philosophy embracing Nullification, Slavery, & Secession — all core Democratic Party values at the time, by the way. By Reagan’s time, however, States’ Rights had come to refer to a Constitutional interpretation of the Framers’ original intent and theory of governance that held that some political and legal issues were inherently local, and best left to appropriate echelons of government to decide, or to individuals. In short, not every dispute has a Federal nexus, nor should it be decided in a court room, let alone a Federal court room. I think most reasonable people would agree with this viewpoint. They would also agree, I think, that there sometimes IS a Federal nexus, such as exists in the Duke case, or in the Scottsboro case decades earlier, where the fundamental elements of American law have been clearly trampled upon.
Steve,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_civil_rights_worker_murders
Yeah, Steve. Everything is in my mind. States’ rights was still a loaded term in Reagan’s time. That’s why he used it. The concept of using messages that will appeal to your target audience is not some arcane art. It happens all the time, particularly in politics.
When I say “code”, it’s pretty clear I’m not talking about message you need a Captain Midnight Decoder Ring to translate.
Of course, this was all done to get Southern votes. Remember, the Democratic Party held the South for a long time by appealing to racist sentiment. Is it that much of a stretch to consider that Republicans may have employed this strategy as a quick and dirty way to appeal to former Democratic voters who were feeling disenfranchised by their party’s embrace of civil rights.
Any political consultant worth his salt will tell you the same thing. I’m sorry if this isn’t compatible with the Reagan = Jesus mantra, but he was a politician. And, politicians want votes.
I’m still not understanding, Angel. The example of Reagan doesn’t resonate any understanding of the concept your trying to get across in my mind. Like Steve, I can’t wrap my mind around the idea that Reagan might seriously send a “message” that would tick off the black population. The most likely reason for that time and place was ignorance of black history.
And as far as I know, “States’ Rights” is a direct reference to the 10th Amendment, to taking power away from the central government and giving it back to the states where it belongs, and not much else. That’s just how most white people I know look at it… pretty much what Steve said. Times have CHANGED.
Perhaps the problem is that you should not be projecting the opinions… and possibly the methods of operation.. of the old Jim Crow Democrats onto Republicans? Aren’t YOU doing what you’ve been accusing conservative pundits of doing… using certain wordings or situations as “stand ins”? To us, “States’ Rights” has absolutely nothing to do with the color of anyone’s skin, it has only to do with the way the national government has stepped on the 10th Amendment, which is every bit as important as the 1st through the 9th. Too much centralization is a BAD idea, and the Framer’s knew it.
To explain in part where I’m coming from, let me tell you about my Dad. He was a Republican from my earliest memory, which goes back to Truman and into Eisenhower’s first election. I remember that Dad was 100% for the 1964 Civil Rights Act, and the Voting Rights Act. These were both Republican bills that just happened to be signed into law by a Democratic president… and HE is the one remembered for it.
When Dad retired from the Marines and came down here to Florida in 1959, things were still pretty bad here.
He started putting out applications for part-time jobs while he was going to FSU (he had three teenaged daughters to support!), and was outraged every time he encoutered a job app with the “race” blank on it. He thought it was both a debasement and completely irrelevant to whether or not he could do the job, and said so in his own way: He always filled in the “race” blank with “Human”.
He had a tough time finding a job and finally got one as a fry cook in a local Howard Johnson’s.
Thirty years later, he wanted to attend a seminar for his profession, and when he received his application for that, he looked at the “race” blank on the app, threw a hissy fit, and wrote “Human”.
THAT time it got him branded as a racist because he wasn’t cooperating with the diversity droids.
But the fact is that he was just being consistant. To his mind, if dividing people by race was wrong in 1959, it was even MORE wrong in 1989. He figured we should have known better by then.
That was the man who raised me. And I’ve spent the past 30 or 40 or so years being accused of thoughts that have never entered my mind (and usually directed at me just because I happen to live in the South!), so I can sympathize with Reagan in the instance you gave and can seriously doubt that he “meant” anything.
This is the reason I’m trying to understand where you’re coming from… and having such a hard time getting there.
When I say “I like John Deere tractors,” my coded message is that I want to discriminate against people of Polish ancestry.
Mamapajamas,
With all due respect, what happened there was not black history, it was a pivotal moment in American history. It opened the hearts and minds of a lot of people as far as what was really at stake in the struggle for civil rights. The question raised: Are we going to let racist thugs murder and intimidate with abandon? The answer was no and the Feds led the investigation.
I’m really shocked at the ignorance regarding this event. It really was a big, big deal.
I know everyone thinks Reagan was Superman or something, but I’m sure his advance people had to have knowledge of what they were doing.
To most reasonable people who haven’t deified Reagan, it’s clear the speech was at the very least insensitive. Not just to blacks, but to all Americans that were committed to civil rights. On a more serious note, people need to start reading books because if you didn’t know about this horrible crime, I’m sure you’re missing other parts of a very complex picture.
“And I’ve spent the past 30 or 40 or so years being accused of thoughts that have never entered my mind (and usually directed at me just because I happen to live in the South!)”
Just as frustrating. Trying to have a serious discussion about an issue only to have people tell me I’m “projecting”. If you don’t agree, then don’t. But, don’t try to dismiss me as some mental case. Argue on merit. If at the end of the day, we disagree, fine. But, at least have enough respect for me to assume that I’m firing on all cylinders.
As far as I can remember, I haven’t questioned the mental capacity of any of you. So, offer the same courtesy.
Redbeard,
As always, hilarious!
I have always supported states’ rights, and I have never used that as a tool of discrimination.
States DO retain sovereignty, less only the specific and limited powers delegated to the federal government by the states and defined in the Constitution.
Angel says this about the Reagan campaign kickoff in Philadelphia, Mississippi: “I’m really shocked at the ignorance regarding this event. It really was a big, big deal.”
Is that not an oxymoron, or does it hint at a great white-wing conspiracy contrived to suppress it?
Helio,
I’m speaking of people’s ignorance regarding the triple-murder. How could anyone who’s well-informed not know about this?
This is a great discussion and I’m going to tell you why: it shows how clueless many white people are about other ethnic groups collective histories. It’s a cluelessness by omission that’s actually rather sad.
I’m not saying that to be insulting or condescending either.
I distinctly remember hearing my parents talk about Philadelphia, MS when I was a child. I certainly didn’t learn it in school. In fact, I’m 33 years old and I am still learning about the history of black people in this country right now. I’ve had to educate myself on my own.
And Angel is right. It was a big deal to black people. Some quite naturally, it would have been interpreted by some as being insulting. But I don’t believe for one hot second that that the Reagan campaign didn’t have operatives that KNEW the history of that town and KNEW how THAT speech in THAT place would PLAY to a certain segment of the population; both white and black.
From SteveDinMD:I postulate there was, in fact, NO code. First, I couldn’t tell you where Reagan kicked off his 1980 campaign — neither at the time nor now — and I doubt that I’m in any way unique in this respect. Just who, then, comprised the audience you believe Reagan was sending coded messages to, and why do you believe they would at all be aware of the location of Reagan’s campaign kick-off? Second, for it having been, as you say, such a famous triple murder that occurred in Philadelphia, MI, I’ve never heard of it.
Then I guess you’ve never heard of Mississippi Burning either. You know the ACADEMY AWARD NOMINATED MOVIE starring Gene Hackman.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_Burning
I swear I don’t know why I bother sometimes.
Tiffany,
You’re the best. I’m counting the seconds until someone posts that you’re “consumed” by a decades-old murder that was only important to black people. (even though two of the kids, that’s what they were kids standing up to do the right thing, were white/Jewish)
Tick…Tick…Tick…Tick
[SIGH] Are we talking about murder? Or coded messages? Or states’ rights? Or Ronald Reagan’s campaign? Trying to tie all those separate factors together into some sort of “thing” at which we can point fingers seems to be a real reach.
Does anyone here think that Ronald Reagan was supporting, excusing, justifying, or white-washing those murders? Really, I would like to know.
And no, I’m not “clueless.” I know what happened, and have always known. It was big news when the murders happened, even over here in our little “clueless” white enclave. [insert rolling eyes here]
I thought this topic was about the Duke Lacrosse Players???
It was..it just drifted a bit. Oh well.
And Red – I know you aren’t clueless but some of your other white brethren are. I was just prviding some clarity…
*patting Red on the back*
Redbeard,
I don’t know how much clearer I can be. THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE. I believe Reagan’s advance people knew full well what they were doing when they selected that venue. They especially knew Reagan’s topic of states’ rights would resonate with a crowd that felt they were oppressed by the Feds because they couldn’t murder or intimidate people with impunity anymore. Further, the “Southern Strategy” is not a myth or legend made up by us. It was uncovered and dragged into daylight by many others more qualified than I to speak about it. The genesis of the strategy came about when Wallace was seen as a threat to the inroads Republicans were making with Southern voters.
As a side note, could you make a speech at the site of a significant event in American history and not refer to it even once?
Angel, re: “I believe Reagan’s advance people knew full well what they were doing when they selected that venue.”
I don’t. THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE. And, yes, I did know about the murders. There have also been murders of blacks (by the KKK and others) in other US cities. It would be hard to pick out a place where NO murders have ever occurred.
Why did Andrew Young become the mayor of Atlanta, a city that figures prominently in the Civil War? Is there a “message” there, or is that just the place he happened to be living when he decided to run for mayor?
Given that I’m not into “messages”, I tend to believe the second.
I guess no candidate can ever start a campaign in Memphis, either. What an awful coded message that would send.
I guess no candidate can ever start a campaign in Memphis, either. What an awful coded message that would send.
Comment by RedBeard — 03.15.07 @
Guess it all depends on the viewpoint of the person, doesn’t it.
The viewpoint of the candidate, or the observer?
If we’re talking about the candidate, how do we determine his or her viewpoint?
Cooper : Durham case review still may take WEEKS
http://www.newsobserver.com/100/story/553776.html
DURHAM – State Attorney General Roy Cooper spent 23 minutes this morning with special prosecutors and other investigators at the vacant house that spawned the Duke lacrosse case.
Special prosecutors James Coman and Mary Winstead arrived at the house with Cooper and several other investigators.
(snip)
“At this point, we expect the investigation to wrap up in the next few weeks,†said Jennifer Canada, assistant public information officer for the attorney general”
Since this is all just kabuki and photo-ops, and since there is NO reason for this ‘investigation’ to have continued longer than about 5 minutes, it becomes more possible that the state will still seek to avoid political and financial fallout by
manufacturing some kind of convictions on some kind of charges.
Petition to Attorney General Cooper to end the hoax :
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/208340697
Sorry, meant the observer..Wasn’t clear.
You guys are being silly. Again, this wasn’t just any murder because three young men – 2 white and 1 black were targeted specifically because they were registering black voters. This is a significant event in American history. I cannot stress enough what a watershed moment this was at that time. How do you go to this small town that is known for nothing else but that event and not even mention it. Even in the context of a conciliatory speech like, ” A terrible thing happened here a number of years ago. But America has moved forward and opportunity is fully extended to all of our citizens, blah, blah, blah.” What would be so hard about that.
To me this is like visiting Auschwitz and not taking a moment to acknowledge the horrors that occurred there.
“I don’t. THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE. And, yes, I did know about the murders. There have also been murders of blacks (by the KKK and others) in other US cities. It would be hard to pick out a place where NO murders have ever occurred.”
That’s not the point. The point is to have a moment of silence, rememberance or prayer. Something that acknowledges the horrible crime that was committed. This isn’t some sprawling metropolis we’re talking about. This is a small town. This is what made it a flashpoint during that era.
So, when Romney kicked off his campaign, he just happened to pick Michigan for no reason? Is this some elaborate joke on me? That’s what it feels like.
Seahawk, we’re close to getting a thousand signatures on the petition. All we need now is another 50.
Thanks for getting this topic back on subject!
Please bear with me, because I’d like to ask my question again. Does anyone here think that Ronald Reagan was supporting, excusing, justifying, or white-washing those murders?
Redbeard,
You can ask the question again all you like. I’m not saying what you suggest. What I’m saying is that Reagan had a golden opportunity to reach out to blacks and others who care about civil rights, but instead he pandered to racists by saying nothing.
So he deliberately pandered to racists? Pretty harsh. How do you know that was what was in his mind and/or heart?
Redbeard @115… No, I do not think that Ronald Reagen was supporting, excusing, justifying, or white-washing those murders…
Angel @116… Why are we talking about something (over and over and over) that Reagen did or did not do back in 1980 on the Duke Lacrosse topic? The man is dead. Can we move on?
How do you know?
Ex-Duke Lacrosse Coach Speaks Out
Durham — Duke University’s former men’s lacrosse coach spoke out Thursday for the first time about allegations and the criminal investigation against three former players.
Mike Pressler, who resigned in the wake of the scandal in which a stripper said she was gang-raped at an off-campus lacrosse team party, said he has always believed the players — David Evans, Collin Finnerty and Reade Seligmann — were innocent.
“The evidence is coming out, daily, if not weekly. The world is seeing things that we knew early on in March,†Pressler said in an interview on the Fox News show “America’s Newsroom with Bill Hemmer and Megyn Kelly.â€
“We remained silent for that period of time because we believe in those two words — the truth,†Pressler said.
He also said that he made it a point to punish players whenever they stepped out of line, but the party was not one of those circumstances.
Meanwhile, North Carolina Attorney General Roy Cooper and two special prosecutors handling the case, were seen Thursday at 610 N. Buchanan Blvd., where the lacrosse party took place.
The Attorney General’s Office took over the case in January after Durham County District Attorney Mike Nifong recused himself from the highly publicized case. Lawmakers and the North Carolina State Bar have criticized how Nifong handled the investigation.
Nifong dismissed rape charges against the three suspects in December after the accuser told investigators she couldn’t testify with 100 percent certainty that she was raped. Charges of first-degree sexual assault and kidnapping remain against them.
The day after Nifong asked for a special prosecutor in the case, Cooper said his office would examine the entire case before deciding how to proceed with the investigation.
Special prosecutors James Coman and Mary Winstead have spent the time since then looking at the evidence and interviewing witnesses. Sources tell WRAL that the accuser, a 28-year-old mother of three, met with them last month. Nifong didn’t question her until nine months after she made the allegations.
Pressler led the Duke’s men’s lacrosse program for 16 years before his resignation last April. He was later hired as head coach at Bryant University in Rhode Island.
He has refused to comment on the investigation in the past.
“There will be a time and place to talk about that,†he said during a news conference on Feb. 23. “Today is not the time and the place to talk about that.â€
But, responding to a question about whether he believed the case should prompt changes in the North Carolina legal system, he replied, “I just hope that Rhode Island has a heckuva lot better system than North Carolina does.â€
Source: http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1235808/
Angel said: “You can ask the question again all you like. I’m not saying what you suggest. What I’m saying is that Reagan had a golden opportunity to reach out to blacks and others who care about civil rights, but instead he pandered to racists by saying nothing.”
SteveDinMD: Had I been an advisor to Reagan and had I known about the issue I’d have advised him to make some appropriate comments to reach out to black voters or, better yet, to go somewhere else. That course would only make sense. I did see the movie ‘Mississippi Burning’– something like 15 years ago — and had been completely unaware of the murders prior to having seen the film. Having seen it, I couldn’t tell you if the murders happened in Philadelphia or somewhere else in Mississippi, nor am I aware of whether or not Philadelphia has any other significance. For that matter, it hasn’t been verified to my satisfaction that Reagan actually launched his 1980 presidential campaign there, or if he ever had even one campaign stop there, or even if Philadelphia, MI is a real place. From my perspective, then, we might be arguing over something that might never have happened. Even if it did, I’m certain that neither I nor anyone I know would have picked up on it. For these reasons, I seriously doubt that any racist “code” was in play. It was simply too obscure a reference to be politically valuable. Either the incident didn’t happen at all or it was due to an oversight. Remember; pre-Internet it was MUCH more difficult to conduct research.
Steve yikes,
If you missed it, just say you missed it. Maybe you dont read Time magazine.
Here’s a taste:
“Space doesn’t permit a complete list of the Gipper’s signals to angry white folks that Republicans prefer to ignore, so two incidents in which Lott was deeply involved will have to suffice. As a young congressman, Lott was among those who urged Reagan to deliver his first major campaign speech in Philadelphia, Mississippi, where three civil rights workers were murdered in one of the 1960s’ ugliest cases of racist violence. It was a ringing declaration of his support for “states’ rights” — a code word for resistance to black advances clearly understood by white Southern voters. ”
read the article in its entirety here:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,399921,00.html?cnn=yes
Tate… re:“I thought this topic was about the Duke Lacrosse Players???”
You’re absolutely right. I’m sorry for drifting off topic. Consider me duly reprimanded
.
Steve,
This is my last post on the subject.
http://maps.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTExNmIycG51BF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEc2VjA2ZwLWJ1dHRvbgRzbGsDbGluaw–#mvt=m&tp=1&tt=Philadelphia%20MS&trf=0&lon=-89.116631&lat=32.771832&mag=6
Whew.
Amen! Halleluiah! I hear angels singing… (No coded message in that last sentence.)
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