I reviewed blogger Dawn Eden’s fabulous book, The Thrill of the Chaste: Finding Fulfillment While Keeping Your Clothes On.
Check out “Rebelliously Chaste.”
As a chaste woman myself, her book resonated deeply and reminded me why I have trouble talking and writing about sexual abstinence without mentioning Christ.
The reasons for abstaining from sex until marriage are larger than avoiding pregnancy or disease. Abstinence should be elevated above mere self-control and delayed gratification. In order for chastity to be meaningful, one has to believe that he/she is being obedient to God, that the sexual act itself has a spiritual purpose ordained by God and intended for two people united in marriage.
Old-fashioned, I know. I should start a new blog called Retro Woman. 
If you’ve read the book, I’d love to read your mini reviews. What are your views about sexual abstinence until marriage in general?
No off-topic comments, please.
Update (4/4): Just in case anyone is thinking this, let me clear the air. I am not a virgin. Wish I was, but that’s spilled milk under the bridge. After I became a Christian, I decided to abstain until marriage (some Christians don’t), though I began to abstain before becoming a Christian. It’s strange to think that if I don’t get married, I’ll never again…anyway, it is only by God’s grace that I can remain chaste.
And broadcast it on a public blog.
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I read and very much appreciate Dawn Eden’s book, The Thrill of the Chaste. As a mother of two Gen X’ers, I have watched first hand the emotional and spiritual devastation of sex separated from commitment and marriage. I truly believe only someone who has been hurt by living a Sex in the City lifestyle can speak about these matters with credibility. Thanks for mentioning the book, La Shawn.
No, you are not Retro Woman. I see you as a woman who is governed by greater things than fulfilling the desires of the flesh.
I agree with you about abstinence. It is special, something that God ordained, but in today’s world, that is not an acceptable answer. Instead, we should be like the animals around us (another sign of evolutionary thought?) and behave like such.
I am sure you will take some hits on this topic (but what else is new?? lol), but you are right. People hate the truth, and will try to destroy anyone who states the truth.
We see the moral decline of our Nation, see children who don’t even have the basic knowledge necessary to live in a free country, and are governed by lusts and desires.
You and I both know that God will judge this nation and that judgement will not be gentle. When He does, we Christians will be blamed for the judgement. After all, that is easier than looking at one’s self and seeing the corruption there.
Although I’m not a Christian, I caught myself telling my 8th grade Language Arts (English) class that they should remain abstinent at their age (13-15). This subject came up because some of the boys wanted to know how to go about getting girls’ phone number, and things just took off from there. To my surprise, the girls also had a few tough questions for me. But I made sure that I emphasised that they should not be having sex at such a young age because such actions can emotionally cripple teens. I had to laugh at some of their responses later on as I overheard one of my students mention to another student, “Mr. Turner be in church. He be (sic) preaching to us in class.” I just chuckled and smiled at that comment because actually it has been many moons since I’ve been in church. Like I said previously, I’m not a Christian per se–I did grow up in a Christian house–, but I do see the wisdom of living a life following Judeo-Christian precepts.
LaShawn, your views are biblical — not old-fashioned! And they are not only wise, correct and God-honoring, they are what our society needs to hear!! If that’s being a “Retro Woman,” count me in, too…but I hope it’s simply being a Christian Woman!
My husband and I were both virgins when we married 19 years ago. I becamse a Christian when I was almost 19, and until then I did not consider my purity to be anything worth protecting — but I know now that God was protecting me from myself. It was only by His good grace that I was able give my husband this only-for-him gift of myself on our wedding night.
Now, as a mother to three daughters (two teens and one almost-teen), I am so thankful that I am able to tell my children that in spite of what they may see, hear and read all around them, it IS possible to live out our Christian convictions, with God’s help, for His honor and glory.
I was not raised in a home where abstinence was emphasized or valued. My parents never told me, “Someday, you will marry a man you love, you should present yourself to him like you would want him to present himself to you.” In fact, no one talked about sex at our house. Girls who got pregnant were criticized as being stupid or calculating (depending on if it seemed like she was trying to “trap” a man).
My husband (raised in a Christian home) was taught that sex was a spiritual as much as physical act. He grew up praying for his future wife (me!) and made an internal commitment to God remain chaste until he married.
I wish I could say that I had been chaste until our wedding day. I wish that I didn’t have the memories or emotional scars I have. I wish young women weren’t taught that men will only desire them if they talk, act, and wax themselves like porn stars. I wish that shows like Sex and the City didn’t trivialize the mental and physical anguish that comes with promiscuity. I see so many women my age (28) and younger who really believe that a good oral sex technique is what it takes to find long lasting happiness with a mate and my heart aches for them. If I hadn’t become a Christian I probably would still be one of them.
Having experienced sex both outside and inside marriage, I have some credibility with the young people in my life when I tell them that it is without a doubt worth the wait.
And being a chaste widow for five-and-a-half years, knowing what I am missing, is very difficult sometimes. Sometimes I just want to give in to get some companionship, to feel that closeness. But then I think of my (God willing) future husband and the gift I will be able to give him on our wedding night and beyond.
And God’s grace is sufficient for me.
LaShawn,
Even though I’m a new reader to your blog (I came over from RightWingNews) I want to say that I admire you’re courage and honesty. Knowing the area you’re living in (I worked in NorVA for a while) I have to agree that it takes more than just determination to live a chaste lifestyle there, it takes Christ’s Grace.
Unfortunately for me, I can’t claim to know about living a chaste life before marriage. Even though I was raised in a Christian home and taught God’s Law from an early age, I didn’t start living it until later in life. What I can say is that my life has been scarred forever by my own stupidity as a teen, but that’s something that pop culture doesn’t show you when they’re selling their trash. As always, they show the glitz and glamor, but nothing of the morning after and the heartache that comes later in life. They just show the here and now.
It’s not enough to teach girls about abstinence. We must teach boys, as well.
My son is 12. I’ve been trying to drum this information into his head since he was old enough to speak. The people who say abstinence “doesn’t work” think abstinence education means just saying, “don’t do it.” In fact, it is about so much more. It is actually about the meaning and value not only of sex but of life itself.
I’m a regular reader of Dawn’s blog and I read her book a few weeks ago. I enjoyed the book but because I am not a Christian it was a bit harder for me to get into because of her frequent citing of Scripture and my own discomfort with religion. I’ve attended church in the past and some of my family are very religious but I grew up in a secular home where sex and values were not brought up, other than for my parents to say “don’t do it” without ever telling me when I could do it. I guess they just figured I’d come up with my own conclusions regarding when to have sex.
At the age of 20 I briefly started going to church and decided to be chaste but soon fell off the wagon and ended up pregnant ( my first and only pregnancy) and I now have an almost 2 year old daughter. The funny thing is that I found it so hard to be chaste voluntarily then I get pregnant and find myself in a place where I haven’t had sex for over 2 years. ( You did the math right, my child’s father and I broke up while I was still pregnant.) I’m wondering if these past few sexless years have been God’s way of helping me help myself. I flirt with the idea of becoming chaste but I wonder what man will want to marry a woman he hasn’t had sex with who already had a child with someone else? Am I worth the wait anymore. Dawn broached these questions in her book and in interviews. Her words have helped me move closer to wanting to choose a chaste lifestyle but I’m just not sure that I can do it in the absence of any religious beliefs to back me up.
Sorry for starting to wander but I just wanted to talk for a moment about how I thought Dawn’s book related to my own life and why I enjoyed it so much.
I know this probably sounds bizarre but at the age of 27, I’ve never had sex before.
I’m an Asian, living in Asia and I must admit that I’m expected to be a virgin until I marry. This applies to both men and women.
I’ve been with the same fantastic woman for 41 years, and neither of us has any “experience” outside that relationship. Whenever we think about it, we not only have no regrets, but we’re exceedingly thankful that our upbringing guided us down that path.
We hope, and believe it to be true, that we instilled the same sensibilities into our two sons, both happily and faithfully married.
“Saving yourself for the right person” is not an old-fashioned, trite, quaint custom; it’s a key element that helps makes a marriage special and sacred.
10 says
“I wonder what man will want to marry a woman he hasn’t had sex with who already had a child with someone else?”
Jamil, if you don’t mind me saying so, maybe you’re asking the wrong questions there? I personally would ask:
“What kind of man do I want, and why would I want to marry the kind of man who was not only hung up about my child, but also sees me as ‘property’ and ’sullied’ by past experience.”
WE get to choose what we want in a partner.
Although I was raised to believe that there was ‘one’ girl out there for me. After a few false starts I realised that there are many potential partners out there, and you don’t have to opt for any of them but the ‘right’ one.
Also, for too long women have been seen as ‘property’ of men.
My wife’s first marriage was to a fiercely conservative born-again Christian. Once they were married, he changed from his nice-natured ways and his religion and meanness took over. He sometimes used to lock her in the house and not allow her friends, or the freedom to work outside of the house.
He said she was wicked for being ‘unsaved’ (she’s agnostic)and that the ‘Devil’ in her made him lock her up.
Also he said that she had to have sex with him (even though he was verbally abusive and hateful)
‘God’ says that a wife obeys her husband, yet she refused after years of this, finally divorcing him.
I love my wife, and very rarely, but sometimes, I get angry that she wasn’t better equipped (mentally) in the past to deal with her possessive/abusive husband sooner than she did.
She eventually saved herself by divorce but by this time he had made her pregnant (after years of trying and blaming her for being infertile/work of Satan)
I am only angry for her, and her wasted/painful years. She never dated another man (me) until 12 years after her ‘Christian’ experience* when we met and married shortly afterwards.
I proposed to her before we had any physical contact, as our initial relationship grew for 6 months with only a telephone/pictures and 5000 miles between us. (Don’t ask!)
I do find age and experience can cure rampant jealousy and notions of ‘property’ in relationships.
Once these vanities are dispensed with, then real unconditional love can shine its light on the dark, hurt parts of our psyche. Sex in my mind (in general) is not something to take too lightly OR too heavily (see above experience). ‘Our’ culture has cheapened it enormously, as it does with most things.
Yours,
One-time serial monogamist, proud stepfather, agnostic 40yr old .
* I am fully aware that Christian men aren’t generally abusive/control-mad/sexually repressed/woman-hating patriarchs.
That should go without saying. Although do feel free to make general with agnostics/atheists/non-Christians
Jamila, even!
Hello LaShawn,
I’m a first time poster, although I read your blog regularly since I found your link over at Michelle Malkin’s blog.
I have not read the book you are commenting on, but I agree with your thoughts.
I think that “abstinence” and “self-control” have fallen to the level that they have because, frankly, the “church” (in general as a whole group, not as individuals) have taken these precious concepts for granted.
“Just say no” is pat, short, easy to remember, but not easy to do when you’re saying it because someone else told you to.
I have met so many who do or do not do things because “the church said so”. This is not an indication of heart-felt, thought-out, soul-searching conviction.
Which is why I appreciate your blog so much, LaShawn. Your writing shows that you think deeply. You take a stand and whatever flak comes with it.
To David, I agree that our country will be judged, but I remind you that the Bible says that judgment begins at the house of God.
It is true that there are an abundance of people who find it easier to blame Christians than it is to look in their own mirror. But I personally am sick to death of Christians who talk of judgment with no tears and shrugging shoulders. Jesus wept for Jerusalem, the people that crucified Him for the judgment that was sure to fall on them. He prayed for their forgiveness. If we call ourselves Christians, then we fall short if we do any less.
LaShawn, please keep on writing and holding our feet to the fire. Praying for you. Sorry for the long post.
Jamila – first you must love yourself enough to forgive yourself. God has already done both for you – even if you aren’t really all that sure about Him. He is definitely sure about you.
You and your child will have a wonderful life, whether or not you find a mate with whom to share it. Any man who would reject a woman because she already has a child is not a man worth having.
I wonder what man will want to marry a woman he hasn’t had sex with who already had a child with someone else?
A man who loves you and loves your daughter. You’re a package deal.
I had a friend in high school who became pregnant by accident, had a daughter, and five years later was married to a really nice guy in a ceremony that included the girl–he was adopting her once the marriage paperwork was filed, and so the minister emphasized that they were becoming a family, his vows included becoming a father, it was probably the most touching ceremony of all my high school friends’ weddings.
And Gayle’s already reminded us that there is forgiveness, something that’s really easy to forget.
LaShawn, this is such a great and needed topic.
Having been raised in a pretend Christian home, I was never taught about abstainting from sex until marriage or the spiritual nature of the sex act itself.
As far as I was concerned, sex was nothing more than a biological urge similar to going to the toilet.
I just wish someone had told me the wise and simple truth and not assumed that I was going to do it anyway.
I’ve been married for 8 years and have 3 children, and I’m still dealing with the destructive promiscuity I practiced starting at the age of 16.
I will teach my children the truth, and pray that God works in their lives for his purposes.
LaShawn-
Read the book and totally agree with you. Thanks for bringing up the topic. I often think I’m the only one here in the DC area who has made the commitment to wait until marriage to be with a man – how lonely it seems most of the time! Thank you again and your blog is fantastic.
My husband and I are in a second marriage and furthermore, neither of us grew up Orthodox. We became Orthodox as adults and then later, we met each other. In our religion, there is not supposed to be any touching at all before marriage though few people can live up to that standard, but certainly there is no sexual activity prior to marriage. We both agreed that this is a standard we wanted to meet, and we did. It wasn’t easy, but we felt strongly that sex belongs in marriage and that it is a holy act, sanctioned by G-d. There is no comparison between the quality of our marriage and sex life, and the quality of my first marriage, which was clearly not blessed at all.
My friends who weren’t religious thought we were weird for taking this stance but I was quick to point out how many hours my friends and I had spent hashing over the lingering pain of bad sexual experiences from our teen and college years — between us, we had it covered: STDs, some of which led to infertility, untimely pregnancy and giving birth as a single mother or having an abortion or giving up a child for adoption, date rape, generally bad sexual experiences like feeling used and dumped by guys we thought we loved so much who didn’t love us back, or waking up from a drunken binge and not knowing exactly who spent the night with us (or how many). Then there were those relationships we stayed in because of the sex, either for the ongoing physical gratification, or barring that, out of guilt (because we didn’t want to admit to ourselves that we just had sex with someone we didn’t love so we had to stick around for a bit in order to prove we weren’t sluts). I think I made my point pretty well because on a couple of occasions, the friend got quiet and reflective. Because maybeeeeeeee . . . if we had resisted popular cultural practices and remained chaste, we wouldn’t be dealing with all these emotional scars that last a lifetime. Oh, and one more thing: I was quite conservative for my generation and my generation was a whole lot more conservative than subsequent generations. If I feel bad over my past, what must some of these other people feel? It’s a heavy price to pay for giving into lust over and over again.
Anti-religious people just love to assert that there must be unwed pregnant teens or sexually dissatisfied married couples in the Orthodox community but you know what, honestly, those cases are SO RARE. I have never known of a pregnant teen in the Orthodox Jewish community where I live, and none of my married religious friends have any more significant marital problems in the bedroom than my secular friends have, in fact, I think my religious friends are more satisfied.
Oh, and as for the fear of “what if after you get married, you find out you aren’t sexually compatible?” Happy to report that isn’t my story, and I don’t know anyone who feels that way. And if you’re not out screwing around with half the world prior to meeting Mr. Right, then you don’t really have anything to compare to so there is no room to be dissatisfied/disappointed.
I’m glad someone wrote a book on this topic and I hope it helps a lot of people to rethink this whole thing. We have a book by Rabbi Manis Friedman called Why Doesn’t Anyone Blush Anymore? It’s also good if anyone is interested in the Jewish perspective on chastity before marriage.
God’s greatest gift to me was for me to remain celebate until I met my wife, though at the time I didn’t see it as a gift. I wish I could say I avoided sexual activity because I was a committed Christian, because at the time I wasn’t – just socially inept. My wife and I both entered into our relationship as virgins, and have remained faithful for almost 23 years now.
Even if it is by accident though, I can testify to the value of saving yourself for a life partner. Probably the best and worst moments in my life have been intimate moments. I can’t imagine sharing either with a stranger or in a temporary relationship.
As usual, God is right, and God is good.
I’ve also heard that same question before, and I personally do not put much stock in that fear. I think the people who ask that are thinking backwards. My job revolves around failed marriages so everyone take this as you will: Look at character.
If the dude is selfish in bed, he will be selfish out of bed, and his selfishness will manifest long before bedding down with him. If your lady is indifferent to sex, she will show her indifference before you get her in bed. If you pay attention, people show you who they are, without anyone needing to take off their clothes.
On my job people have complained of partners who insist on asking for (and getting) swing sex, or partners who insist on acts that led to needing surgery(!) to fix the damage, or partners who don’t bother to wake them before having sex. Some had spouses who made fun of their bodies or negatively compared them to past partners. I could go on.
Guess what? All of these partners had traits that signaled they would not be “sexually compatible.” They did not treat their mates with respect. They felt free to ridicule, free to slap, free to deprive their mates of affection, freedom, relationships with friends and family, etc. They were mean, selfish, cruel, etc. out of bed and they acted that way in bed, which is not surprising, since people don’t take off their character when they remove their clothes.
All of this is why I say people worried about “sexual compatibility” are likely not thinking with their brains. If people take the time to search for mates who are considerate of them in the first place, then they can be assured of finding someone who will take the time to learn to please them in bed when they’re married, too.
I don’t think anyone should be ashamed or intimidated by abstinence, and frankly find the demonization of it suspect. I’ve believed for a while now that those who demonize abstinence need to believe that they made the right choice in their bed hopping, so not only do they insist their choice is right, but that anyone choosing to abstain must be wrong.
Tyrian Purple, excellent, excellent points!!
The other thing is that people will often stay in relationships where the sex (which they had BEFORE marriage) is bad because they are already emotionally attached. Duh. Because sex bonds you to that other person, even if you shouldn’t be bonded to them because they aren’t right for you in every other way as well. I don’t know if this is so much true for men but it is certainly true for women. So the argument that people need to explore their sexual compatibility before making a commitment just doesn’t hold water, because that is not what happens in real life. People will still marry partners with whom they have a bad sexual relationship.
I agree with you totally that the issue of sexual compatibility and satisfaction is CHARACTER more than anything else. Chemistry and attraction is certainly important but you don’t need to engage in sex to determine if those things check out.
LaShawn, I have a good feeling that G-d is preparing a mate for you this very day. When the time is right and when he and you are ready, G-d will bring you together.
I have remained chaste since my last divorce a few years ago and happily single, and that through the grace of God. What I have come to learn the hard way is the freedom in remaining this way–there are no physical and/or emotional ties when a relationship is broken. And the ultimate freedom to follow God, something I didn’t have during my marriage.
Hi La Shawn,
Well, thanks for asking. I hope my opinion is still relevant, though I have been happily married for the last 22 years, therefore abstinence is not ordinarily practiced.
However, my husband and I have been in the youth ministry since 1989 and have always taught abstinence to our teenagers. We’ve even raised a successful daughter, who is also a chaste young woman. Good books, along with the Bible, that we used as references were Josh McDowell’s Why Wait? and Joshua Harris’ I Kissed Dating Goodbye Like you, we believe sex has its rightful place with marriage. I appreciate your bold stance, as I know the ridicule you must come up against regularly.
Batyah, I’ve seen that, too, and I’ll add that I’ve noticed people enter into bad marriages because they had sex, and felt somehow that having sex meant they were obligated to marry the person. Some claimed to feel trapped. This is a head scratcher for me because it seems that if you feel that way, you should be more selective about having sex if you insist on having it before marriage. Women do seem to think this way more than men, you’re right about that.
If they don’t require books like Dawn Eden’s (haven’t read it) in sex ed, I think they should. Ever since I’ve had this job I’ve wanted to do some sort of intervention to get teenagers to think more about sex and relationships. Beyond saying, “don’t do it,†I want them to understand why they shouldn’t use sex as a bargaining chip, or as a manipulative tool or as a way to gain acceptance. I also think that it’s vital that kids understand sex differences. Free sex plays out differently for men and women, like it or not. Men can lead debauched lives in their youth and then settle down later with a wife and kids. Women can’t, biology sees to that, some extraordinary circumstances notwithstanding. A girl needs to understand this. I don’t know if schools teach this (I don’t recall that they did in my day), but they should.
Tyrian Purple, schools would never teach about the gender specific consequences of promiscuity. That would be discrimination against women! It’s so stupid, but, there you have it.
I find this topic really interesting. Sexuality is so powerful and goes right to our core, so intermingled with love and family — there is a reason why G-d put restrictions on it!
I have not read the book, but it does look interesting.
A chaste person is not merely a person who has not had sex. A chaste person is a person who became aware of something important and decided to live by that truth. When one repents, we are forgiven, our sins are forgotten, and we have the chance to become chaste.
I think the world of women. Love them. But I do not believe I could love women as deeply as I do if I were not married to my one and only. Its been a few years now, the kids have all left home, but Pat is more important to me now than when I asked that darling girl to marry me in ‘78.
The fruit does not fall far from the tree. We shall know each other by our actions.
Smiles. Happiness or an act of love? We are the children of our Heavenly Father. When we do well for someone, anyone, for no other reason than to do well – our Father is pleased with us. He smiles for us. We feel the pleasure from that smile deep within our souls. I smile for my wife because she lights up my day, even we we are having disagreements. I feel doubly blessed indeed. My wife and I are far from perfect, and know it. Yet we are aware of our blessings. If we do not count our blessings, if we are not aware of our blessings, we are throwing away part of what we are meant to have.
I agree with #9 – Trish. Sexual abstinence until marriage is projected primarily to the female. It should be equally projected to both male and female. It’s the best way because it is God’s way. Biblically sex before marriage is the sin of fornication. When there is true repentance for this sin from a male or female, God forgives.
JohnD and Gayle Miller,
Thank you for the kind words. I do feel as if I’m being prepared for something and that I have discovered so much about myself these past few years.
It’s strange to think that if I don’t get married, I’ll never again…
You’ll be surprised how many people are of the opinion that if they do get married, they’ll never again…
I’ve read Dawn’s book; it’s very straightforward and a good read. I even got to meet her when she gave a talk about her book at a Catholic church near me. As a Christian woman who’s been married for nearly 14 years, I just wanted to clarify that married people need to live chastely too. We don’t need to abstain from sex, but we do need to “keep ourselves only to each other.”
Ditto all around! A couple of comments:
1. One thing I find truly alarming is that so many CHRISTIAN young people are not even aware that fornication is a sin!! Sad but true; my college-age children are asked repeatedly by classmates to be shown Scriptures that list it as such (and yes, they have been ridiculed for being chaste young men). Some of these kids are genuinely surprised that the Bible even mentions sex if one has never been married. If we as Christian parents don’t tell our kids, who will? The church? Apparently not. The schools? Not likely!
2. It has always irked me that schools make a big deal of telling kids not to take drugs because of the long-term damage it can do, but then teach them how to have promiscuous, pre-marital sex!!
3. How sad that our culture has taught us that life just isn’t worth living without sex. How arrogant and horrible to condemn those, married or not, to feelings of worthlessness because they are not having sex. (I include married people because it can happen if one spouse is unable due to disease or other physical limitation, or the couple is separated physically by job or other circumstance.) And how stupid we are to listen to such baloney!
LaShawn, God bless you richly for your obedience to Him. He will NEVER leave you or forsake you, and His grace is truly sufficient.
LaShawn, you said: “anyway, it is only by God’s grace that I can remain chaste.”
Does that mean us agnostics have to rely on self-control??
(snare-drum please)
Regards,
JohnD
Random thoughts:
“2. It has always irked me that schools make a big deal of telling kids not to take drugs because of the long-term damage it can do, but then teach them how to have promiscuous, pre-marital sex!!”
Teaching safe sex is hardly teaching them how to have promiscuous, pre-marital sex. Let’s not blur important distinctions here. I’d like more discussions of sex in the context of relationships in the public schools.
“3. How sad that our culture has taught us that life just isn’t worth living without sex. How arrogant and horrible to condemn those, married or not, to feelings of worthlessness because they are not having sex. (I include married people because it can happen if one spouse is unable due to disease or other physical limitation, or the couple is separated physically by job or other circumstance.) And how stupid we are to listen to such baloney!”
I disagree that we are “taught” this by the culture. People would seek sex in the absence of any cultural factor. And, in any event, life is better when sex is involved.
Of course, I have no intention of being chaste before marriage, but my number of partners is low (I don’t believe in sex without love, but the latter has not always led to marriage). I guess I’m just concerned that this thread poses what I see as a false choice between promiscuity and abstinence.
Is a single person who has one sexual partner a year promiscuous? Every two years?
Further, I’d examine Tyrian’s point re: inside and outside of bed and apply it to folks who were promiscuous. If you were hurt or damaged or had “wasted years” in conjunction with frequent sexual activity, who’s to say that you wouldn’t have been hurt in the absence of sex. In other words, if you are promiscuous, isn’t it reflective of other problems (like an addictive personality), and wouldn’t those other problems have given you pain regardless?
I heard about this book weeks ago at salon.com. i had mixed feelings then and i have them now. while i agree that it is important to be chaste, i also believe in dealing with reality. african-american women are the fastest growing group of hiv postive people. much of this is because of our “christian” backgrounds. we are taught that sex is wrong, but not taught how to deal with the feelings that come with puberty. it is assumed that we’ll pray about it and it’ll be all good. it’s not. there needs to be balance in the presentation of sex. not just the don’t do it aspect but also the protect yourself if you do aspect.
many of the previous posts strike me as wanting to put the genie back in the bottle. it’s too late for that. so, i agree in theory with the idea of begin chaste until marriage but i would like a balanced view.
needless to say this is all my opinion and applies to teens. as for adults, i’ll speak from my own experience. my mother was a virgin until she was married. my father wasn’t. my mother raised us to be “good girls” but sex was dealt with in a very “modern” fashion. i never was told “because god says so.” my mother gave me a real answer for every sexual question i asked. i had sex for the first time when i was 17. the only thing i regret is that i did it for the experience and not because i liked the guy. other than that i have no regrets. i have been date raped once and pregnant once. i had an abortion. i have minor regrets about my abortion but overall it was a good thing for me to do. i am in my mid-30s and have had approximately 30 partners. most were relationship oriented, some were one-timers.
the only reason i write all of this is because i’m not scarred or damaged by all of this. i find my past to be empowering in that i have survived the bad and am now looking toward the good. i don’t understand all this angst over your past. if you are a true child of god and you have sincerely confessed your sins, you have been forgiven so why are all of you (generalization) so sad still? why are you still “damaged” by your past? my attitude is i did what i did and it can’t be undone. as far as finding the person god intends for me, i expect him to be like me, someone who has realized their value as a complete human being through their experiences. i don’t want a virgin or someone who is “waiting” for the “right” one. that’s way too much pressure and to me takes away from focusing on whole person. that view still focuses on one part of the person. there’s so much more to relationships than just sex, but so much emphasis is placed on that part, even in a discussion like this.
as usual i apologize if it wandered too much. and in my mother’s defense (because i expect a comment), i was not the type of child that you could tell not to do something because taht only wokred to make me want to do it more. so if she had taken a hard stance against sex, i may have tried it earlier. and last point, my sister who is in her early 30’s is a virgin. my brother who is in his late 20’s lost his virginity at 15 or 16. we were all different.
Hi YD,
Don’t take this the wrong way, but the point here is for others to avoid having your experiences. For example, you feel abortion was good for you, but other women don’t. Your experiences sound like the result of immaturity, and while immaturity correlates with youth, there is also the matter of wisdom.
A girl is empowered when she knows she does not have to put herself in the position to have your experiences just for some guy to love her or to get her peers to accept her and on and on. A boy should know he does not have to be a stud machine. He may want to avoid the experience of getting a girl pregnant only to have her turn around and abort their child for whatever reason suits her best. Believe it or not, even men are haunted by abortions. I can’t understand the objection to helping them see the wisdom in the alternative, i.e., not having this happen in the first place.
You may have escaped unscathed to an extent that your experiences are blasé to you, but for everyone like you there are others who end up with unnecessary heartache and pain. I believe empowerment is having the strength not go down that path.
I think the chastity advice actually faces up to a primal reality: people do feel emotionally attached to the ones they have sex with, and this attachment causes a whole host of problems that don’t get any better when people shut their eyes and stick their fingers in their ears and hope it goes away.
I just finished a case where a lady married a man because her baby’s father walked out on her while she was still pregnant. Her wanting her child to have a father is a basic primal urge, but she would have been better off waiting until marriage to get pregnant to start with. As it was she married a loser who had promised to be a good father. It didn’t work out. The reality is that the casual sex mentality has certain road blocks put up not by prudish reactionaries or other boogeymen, but by nature itself. Dashing against these roadblocks is how many people (obviously not you so much) hurt themselves. Helping people to make decisions based on that reality rather than a fantasy world can only be a good thing. God made His rules for a reason, and helping others understand the why of it–also a good thing.
Dear La Shawn,
I applaud the choice you have made. In this day, it is a very difficult one and it has to be made in total faith that the Lord knows what you need and will provide it.
I came from a situation where such morals were not taught to me as a child. When I grew up, I went down the road of pornography and then into a life filled with bad women and sin. My first marriage was to a bar girl from the Philippines and I continued down this road for many years.
During the time of my divorce the Lord came into my life and started to change my hard heart and I was saved (although the marriage ended). It was during the baby Christian period afterwards that I met a woman who I thought I loved and whom brought me back into sin.
When she dumped me, I became enraged at Him and walked away from my faith, but He never walked away from me. He spoke to me as I was walking back down the sin road and told me over and over again, “If you give Me a year of obediance in faith with your heart to wait however long My time is, I will give you what you need”.
La Shawn, I walked that road for another 6 and 1/2 years until I finally had had enough. I reached a point where my sins could no longer fill the emptyness and I surrendered. Within a couple of weeks after that, I began talking to another and this time Christian lady that a friend introduced me to (again from the Philippines).
When I first looked into her eyes, I knew that He had sent the person that I would spend the rest of my life with. It was tough and temptations were many but exactly one year to the day after the last time I had sinned and had reached total emptyness and cried out to Him that I quit, my now wife got off the plane and we have had over 5 wonderful years together. I still have many inner evils but He softens my hard heart with day that I walk with Him.
I thank Him for her each and every day and I know that my walking away from sexual sin and waiting upon Him and His time has given me this joy.
Don’t ever give up as He will always take care of you and your Blessings for faith will be many and beyond what you can imagine.
God Bless You.
Good issue. I’ve not had sex at my age, and like a previous poster, I would like to say it was due to rock solid Christian values, but I can’t really. While I generally hue to what the Bible says on the topic, and have never actively sought out sex itself, I’ve also never been tempted in such a fashion that “it” was there for the taking.
I’ve always been an introvert, and a weight size that attracted a particular type of woman that never caught my interest. Like Paul, but on a totally different subject, the women I wanted, wanted me not, and what I wanted not, wanted me.
While laughing at Satan for my strength in resisting fornication, and daring him to throw his best porn star at me, Satan has laughed at me for my pride. He does not care what he gets us with, so long as he gets us, and as we flee THAT sin, he awaits us in the opposite direction with THIS sin. He’s very tricky and it’s hard to imagine that he once hung with Jesus and other angels, chilling in heaven.
I remain mixed. At this age (and let’s say the movie, The 40 Year Old Virgin was not too far off my mark), you begin to have a real hunger to both experience sex, and also, get it out of the way. Get the oddness out of the way.
One of my great annoyances is that nearly every Christian I have known, or read about, has never stuck to the no fornication thing. Now, when they are comfortably married, or older, they talk about how “back then” they did this and that and how bad it was, or that they were backslidden or in a phase. But there are few with spotless records, and all seemed to have that moment.
And even as I sit here annoyed, all judgmental in my pride, I know deep down that if I had been better looking or in better shape, I would have probably given in too. Probably, my biggest secret prayer is, “God, make sure you allow Satan to tempt me with the hottest woman he can find, and to the best of his ability, so I can stand up to it.”
God smiles back, turns to Jesus and says, “Hey, Finn is praying THAT prayer again,” and they laugh, and call over Moses, and my deceased father.
“Should I grant his prayer?” and they say, “Well duh, NO!, he is a Christian and ended his prayer with ‘Thy will be done’, so, let that untempting chubby girl with the pockmarked face and breasts of different size and “everything bagel” breath hit on him.”
And there you go. My life in Christ.
(PS- I have nothing against chubby girls or everything bagels, by the way.)
Finn’s comment above contained a telling line:
“One of my great annoyances is that nearly every Christian I have known, or read about, has never stuck to the no fornication thing. Now, when they are comfortably married, or older, they talk about how “back then†they did this and that and how bad it was, or that they were backslidden or in a phase. But there are few with spotless records, and all seemed to have that moment.”
I agree with this. It seems there are lots of people who sow their wild oats, then turn around and preach to young people about not following their example (including my own pastor!). As a virgin male in my mid 20’s, I would not have been very receptive to that argument nor would I have granted it much credibility.
I can also relate to those who gave in, though, because I can testify that God did NOT intend normal people to remain virgins well into their 20’s. If we want to convince people to save themselves for a spouse, we have to find a way for them to have one while they are young. People today delay marriage until after college, careers, achieving life goals, establishing financial security – all of that. For most people, that’s going to take them close to the end of their 20’s or early 30’s. Suggesting that a person stay a virgin 10 to 15 years after the onset of puberty is delusional.
If one of my sons found the right girl while still in college or just starting out, I’d encourage them to get married and do those “getting established” things as a couple. Families, especially Christian families, need to step up to this. The alternative is not good. Remember Paul’s advice:
“But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.” 1Cor 7:9 (NIV)
#35,
LMAO at Shade’s comment. Oscar Wilde or Dorothy Parker would be verdant with envy.
JohnD
Finn and DC, your honesty is really refreshing. I was considered a very beautiful child and men starting hitting on me when I was about 12 yrs old (seriously). The flattery of having college age “men” and even 30 and 40 yr olds constantly showering me with attention when I was barely a teenager was way more than I could handle. My family was conservative, religious, and tried somewhat to be protective but I really don’t think they realized how vulnerable I was. I suffered a lot of guilt and confusion as a teenager and I also felt resentful of the “chubby girls with bagel breath” who obviously felt very self-righteous about their chastity but who never had to resist the predators that I had to resist (of course, I didn’t realize they were predators until I grew up). Now I’m a grown up, not a beauty anymore, a bit chubby myself but my husband doesn’t mind,
, and if I ever have a pretty daugher, she’ll be going under lock and key at an early age. Society is programmed to think that the physically attractive child has nothing but advantages coming his or her way, but every child’s circumstances should be taken into consideration and the child given the extra protection or guidance he or she needs accordingly.
I agree that G-d did NOT intend for people to be celibate in their 20’s and beyond. In our tradition, we have a saying, “Age 18, and to the marriage chuppah.” In reality, most religious males don’t get married until around 22 to 24, but some do get married a bit younger. To wait until after 25 is really frowned upon. There is a recognition that sexual desire is normal and very strong, so young marriage is preferred to struggling with desire or giving into fornication.
Hello Lashawn-
What a pleasure and privilege to have opportunity to read about your interests at your blog corner.
It may interest you to know that there is someone out there in the world of chastity who is learning to appreciate this gift, going on eighteen (18) years now. Don’t get me wrong like yourself, I too long for a husband and children some day. But I have come to the conclusion that there is more to discover about our incomparable and abiding companion’s sustaining love in the person of Christ. What I mean to say is that just as I expect in a good marriage hard work and effort so, in marriage to Christ it requires growth in trust in His provision in times of greatest longings. He knows my every need ! I turn to him over and over and over again to get a sense of this blessed assurance. I now realize when the battle of loneliness through longings is fiercest our “mighty fortress is our Godâ€. How marvelous! At any moment I may avail myself of endearing tender mercies via His unfailing love!
I don’t mean this to sound overly pious my intention here is to magnify the faithfulness of our God who withhold not one good thing to those who ask of Him!
La Shawn: It’s too bad that your honesty ends up as pearls that are trampled by swines. I’m sure there are some rude comments that have had to be deleted.
Two cents from a first-time poster who really appreciates your blog: Way to go, LaShawn! I haven’t read the book you mentioned but I’d love to get my hands on it. I’m a Messianic Jewish woman in my forties who first became a believer in my early twenties, when I was already not a virgin. Then came the long wait… if I had known back then that I would be celibate for over 20 years, could I have chosen it? But that’s indeed how it played out, despite temptations and opportunities along the way. Now, in my mid-forties, God has brought me together with a wonderful man with a similar background, similar age, similar wait (neither of us had married before). We recently married (our first kiss was under the wedding canopy), and all I can say is, even if you aren’t a virgin, it’s worth the “wait”! The Lord gives us enough grace to get through each day’s trials, whether they be hurts, griefs, frustrations, or temptations to sin in a number of ways. There are different reasons why a person might remain celibate, but in order to consciously make that choice and live a victorious and emotionally healthy life, I had only one recourse: God’s grace, through Jesus. I know He’ll see you through whatever tomorrow holds, including marriage, if that’s His plan! And then you’ll find out just how much you were really living for Him all those years of waiting. Bless you.
My grandmother used to euphemisticly say that a man doesn’t have to accept the responsibility of owning a cow if she’s giving out free samples of milk.
Being of the infamous Boomer “free-love” generation, I spent nearly 20 years attempting to prove her wrong. I eventually came to the conclusion that she was 100% right all along.
Well, when people get married, temptation doesn’t go away because the Enemy wants to destroy marriage.
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