Thursday, April 12 @ 3:56 p.m.: Rogue prosecutor Mike Nifong says HE’S SORRY. Exact wording: “To the extent that I made judgments that ultimately proved to be incorrect, I apologize to the three students that were wrongly accused.” (Source)
[Grammar pet peeve alert: “I apologize to the three students who were wrongly accused,” not “that were wrongly accused.” You’re referring to people, man, not mere things. Generally, use who when referring to people and that when referring to objects.]
That’s a lawyer’s apology, alright. It should read:
“I apologize to the three students for race- and class-baiting their fellow students and for playing with their lives to win an election, knowing I had no evidence against them. I’m finished as Durham DA, and I deserve to lose my law license. I humble myself before you and hope you can find it within yourselves to forgive me.”
Thursday, April 12 @ early morning: It’s nice to be acknowledged by writers like Michael Barone (met him last year at CPAC). I haven’t done nearly as much as bloggers like KC Johnson (pre-order his book, Until Proven Innocent: Political Correctness and the Shameful Injustices of the Duke Lacrosse Rape Case) but I’m glad I did something. Instead of writing more about the case on the blog, I’ll put my commentary and research into a couple of op-eds I’m working on.
In the meantime, satiate your need for more Duke news at Google News. The former players will appear on “60 Minutes” this Sunday.
Triangle-area blogger Jon Ham has press conference photos and PDF copies of the dismissal orders.
Later…Tammy Bruce at 12:30 p.m. EDT.
————————————————————————————————–
*** 2:36 p.m. EDT — NC AG Roy Cooper calls former players “innocent.” Drops all charges and says, “no more criminal proceedings will occur.” Scroll down for live-blogging and updates ***
Collin Finnerty, Reade Seligmann, and David Evans are no longer facing sexual offense and kidnapping charges. ABC News is reporting that North Carolina Attorney General Roy Cooper will announce today that he’s dropping all charges in a case that shouldn’t have existed in the first place. Is ABC News reliable? I believe it. It will be official once Cooper makes the announcement at a press conference today. The former players and their families have traveled to Raleigh for the announcement. More here.
For over a year, these three men lived under suspicion of heinous crimes. Lost time, scarred reputations, millions of dollars in legal fees…
I hope the stripper-accuser, the now-named stripper who lied/cried rape, pays (legally) for what she’s done. And gets some help. She’s pictured at the far right. Date, March 16, 2006, three days after she supposedly was brutally beaten, strangled, raped, and sodomized by Seligmann — who wasn’t even in the house during her fantasy sequence — Finnerty, and Evans. Last December Durham County DA Mike Nifong, who’s fighting for his career, dropped forcible rape charges against the men because the stripper-accuser couldn’t remember whether she was raped. What a farce this whole mess was.
I started blogging the case about a month after the night in question (April 2006), and I’ve written 44 posts and two op-eds worth of public comments on the stripper-accuser’s obviously-phony-from-the-beginning gang-rape fantasy. I’ll have much more to say later. While I get my thoughts together, check out the “Duke bloggers”:
Captain Ed says, “Next up: Disbarring Nifong.” I’ll drink to that! And thanks for acknowledging my early blogging of the case, Ed.
Update II (9:33 a.m.): FOX News is reporting that the AG’s office has reached a decision in the case and will announce it at 2:30 p.m. EDT today; defense’s press conference at 4 p.m. The Associated Press is also reporting all charges will be dropped.
Update II (2:06 p.m.): Although I seem to revel in it, I don’t enjoy blogging about this case. I used to love the stuff — chasing breaking news and scandals, getting trackbacks, comments, and big blogger links — but I don’t anymore. How I feel about this post proves what I’ve been thinking and occasionally blogging lately. As a rule, I don’t delete posts (though there have been one or two exceptions), so I’ll let this one stand. This likely will be my last “Duke case” post. I will “live-blog” the 2:30 news conference.
I made a judgment call to name the stripper. My conscience was bothering me, so I removed it. But as I said, I’ll let the post stand. I still believe she lied, and I still believe she has serious issues with gang-rape fantasies. I hope the stripper-accuser faces the legal consequences of her actions and gets the help I think she needs. I pray that this will be a turning point for her and that she seeks forgiveness from the people she wronged and from God.
2:36 p.m.: The press conference has started. NC AG Roy Cooper is speaking. “We carefully reviewed the evidence…conducted our own interviews…reviewed statements, photos and other evidence…shows clearly there is insufficient evidence.”
“…the result is that these cases are over and no more criminal proceedings will occur…”
Based on significance of stripper-accuser’s inconsistent stories “we believe these three individuals are innocent of these charges…”
Accuser’s “statements were so inconsistent,” the AG believes that no attack occurred at that house.
“No DNA confirms the accuser’s story. No witness statements confirm the accuser’s story…she contradicts herself.” The evidence Cooper’s office has contradicts her story.
Cooper gives a stinging indictment against Mike Nifong. Powerful statement. I’ll post the video as soon as it’s on YouTube. [Roy Cooper VIDEO at Hot Air]
Nifong has no hope of saving his career.
Cooper says his office has considered charging the stripper-accuser, but decided that it’s “in the best interest of justice” not to charge her. I suspect he’s alluding to her psychological problems. Hinted that she may believe all her wild stories. He mentioned sealed records.
FOX News names the stripper-accuser. I chose to remove her name from this post. I’m still watching FOX. Shep Smith is going to have a stroke if he doesn’t calm down. I’m just as indignant, but relax, man. You’ll live longer.
KC Johnson, of the wonderful Durham-in-Wonderland, is live-blogging from Raleigh.
3:53 p.m.: Lawyers for Seligmann, Finnerty, and Evans will hold a news conference at 4 p.m. EDT. Instead of trying to live-blog, I’ll just link to the statement and video afterward.
Joseph Cheshire, Evans’s attorney, is speaking for the players and their families, who will not take questions at the conference. He’s introducing the families and the attorneys. Reade Seligmann’s father and I communicated via e-mail, and it’s good to put a face to a name. Sighs of relief!
Evans is making a long, eloquent statement in defense of himself and his fellow former players. Says he, Seligmann, Finnerty, or any other lacrosse players ever put up a “blue wall of silence” or refused to speak to Nifong or the cops, contrary to Nifong’s assertions.
Evans is thanking his family for making the sacrifices necessary for him to have an excellent lawyer.
Finnerty just finished speaking, and Seligmann’s at the podium. The recurring theme in all the speeches is the love and support of family and sacrifices each member has made to support and stand by the accused. In order for that to happen, people need the social capital of strong, intact families. They help each other emotionally and financially through tragic, traumatic events like being falsely accused of a gang-rape. The connection between intact families, strong communities, and standing firm in the face of injustice may not seem apparent to some, but it’s quite obvious to me.
Broken homes and broken down communities leave children vulnerable, at risk for poverty, underachievement, and prison, and without social capital to help them through tough times in their lives.
Next Up: Disbarring Nifong…
ABC News reports that the North Carolina Attorney General will drop all charges against the Duke lacrosse players originally accused of raping an exotic dancer at a party over a year ago. After the DNA produced no matches for the……
Trackback by Captain's Quarters — 04.11.07 @ 7:37 am
If there was ever a time for a multi-million dollar lawsuit it’s now. The group of 88, the university, the DA’s office and any media member who published these lies should EACH be sued for millions.
Comment by William — 04.11.07 @ 7:45 am
Cool. Just plain cool.
TaterCon
Comment by TaterCon — 04.11.07 @ 8:03 am
Prepare for your Instalanche!
Comment by TombZ — 04.11.07 @ 8:10 am
Yep, and I’m hoping that the three accused players will sue the state and/or Mike Nifong for the hardships they’ve suffered since being falsely accused and made out to be guilty by Nifong himself in the early days of the ‘investigation.’
Pingback by Sister Toldjah — 04.11.07 @ 8:21 am
The only thing I disagree with is the repeated use of the word “fantasy”. Call it what it was: a lie. It’s a common tactic used against actual victims to label their accusation a fantasy. I know this woman is not an actual victim, but as someone very involved in abuse issues, it doesn’t come off very well.
I call it a fantasy because she cried gang-rape by three men when she was fourteen. It’s a contrarian’s job to find something to disagree with, be it a quibble with a punctuation mark or usage of a single word. Good job! - Admin
Comment by Angel — 04.11.07 @ 8:47 am
La Shawn
I am sorry the case did not go to trial.
I was hoping Ms Mangum would be forced to testify - and revealing what an illiterate low life she is.
Comment by Frank Zavisca — 04.11.07 @ 9:01 am
All the players are gathered in the Triangle, waiting to see what the answer will be. Quite frankly, I would be surprised if the case wasn’t dismissed, now that it is in the hands of the NC Attorney General, Roy Cooper, however, as this case shows, anything can happen.
Pingback by Pirate’s Cove — 04.11.07 @ 9:06 am
Now someone needs to prevent Precious and the other one from selling their “story” and profiting from this.
Comment by Belle — 04.11.07 @ 9:08 am
More than I am waiting for this announcement, I am waiting for the apology from the grand faculty at Duke University to those boys…. Yeah like that will ever happen
Comment by Jfuller — 04.11.07 @ 9:23 am
LaShawn,
You could easily call it a lie. Talk to any rape counselor and any sex-crimes prosecutor and they will tell you the use of the word “fantasy” is very common in the defense strategies and denials. Why do you call anyone who disagrees with you in the slightest a contrarian? The use of the word struck me in that light. A more accurate depiction of what happened was this woman LIED. A “fantasy” is something a person desires. There is a difference between the two.
Contrarian is a label I use not for people who disagree with me but for people who nitpick one word in a post just to have something to disagree with. And thanks for defining “fantasy” for us. I use the word precisely because of what it means and what I believe the stripper wants: a desire to be gang-raped by a group of men. I base this assertion on the fact that she has a history of falsely crying gang-rape. So, just to be ultra clear for the rest of the contrarians, the stripper is a gang-rape fantasizer AND a liar. Happy? Somehow, I don’t think you will be. - Admin
Comment by Angel — 04.11.07 @ 9:34 am
Wow. I would not be at all surprised to see a lawsuit come from these players.
And for once, i think a lawsuit is absolutely justified. Unbelievable.
Comment by Jewels — 04.11.07 @ 9:46 am
I agree. She LIED! Period. End of story. To call it a fantasy is simply removing responsibility and it implies that in some way she really beleived it happened. The reality is that she knows it didn’t happen and she is quite aware that everything she has said from the very beginning was completely false. She is a LIAR and she needs to be held accountable.
Comment by Brian Murphy — 04.11.07 @ 9:47 am
Daaaaaannngg….
Comment by Jewels — 04.11.07 @ 9:48 am
Will Jesse still pay for her college education? Oh, he’s too busy trying to shakedown the media monguls now because of what Don Imus said.
Comment by Tracey — 04.11.07 @ 10:04 am
I do not know that these boys’ reputations are that scarred. I would hire them in a heart beat. Unfortunately they probably do not want to do my filing. Nobody sane took the charges seriously after the first week or two anyway.
Comment by Stella! — 04.11.07 @ 10:05 am
What I’m unhappy about now is that it is clear that you are trying to call me something that I’m not. A contrarian is someone who calls the sky green when it’s blue. That’s not what I’m about. I really do consider it an insult. As far as being happy…I’m not. This is an incredible tragedy. What I hope this case as well as the Kobe Bryant case does is change the way we prosecute these case. I believe in Rape Shield laws, but I believe they should be amended to protect the accused as well until indictment by a grand jury.
I know this is “contrary” to the public’s right to know, but these types of cases have the potential to ruin the lives of the accused as well as the accuser. Shielding both sides would take away the temptation of future Nifong to use such a case in the future to trump up his racial solidarity bonafides before an election in a majority black district.
Again, thanks for defining another word for us. A contrarian is also someone who says the stripper is not a gang-rape fantasizer when I and her record say she is. As I said before, you are a contrarian, a nitpicking one at that. It’s your choice to be insulted by the truth. Since I’ve closed commenting on most of my blog, something I should have done long ago, I have to say that I don’t miss nitpicking contrarians at all, but this back and forth with you has been…fun.
You won’t get the last word, so I think you should take the high road and stop “arguing” with me over a word in a post you otherwise agree with. - Admin
Comment by Angel — 04.11.07 @ 10:12 am
Frank Zavisca #7.
Why did you call her illiterate?
Comment by Shade — 04.11.07 @ 10:13 am
# 1. Whether or not the woman has fantasies of being gang-raped is not something you or I know.
What is certain is that she lied about what happened in that house.
# 2. “Getting the last word” is not important to me. Being able to “say” something is.
# 3. I always take the high road because people make it really easy to do so.
Good! Since having the last word isn’t important to you and you ALWAYS take the high road because people [like me] make it so easy to do, let this comment be the last on this exchange. I’ll have the last word, while you take the high road and move on to something else. “I’ve always depended on the maturity of strangers…” - Admin
Comment by Angel — 04.11.07 @ 10:36 am
“No Justice-No Peace” …
Classic flashback video…The New Black Panthers march in Durham, North Carolina and DEMAND a GUILTY Verdict.
Trackback by Gateway Pundit — 04.11.07 @ 11:03 am
I love you, Fred, but we’re not going there on this post. I’ve got the words flagged for the spam filter. - Admin
Comment by TexasFred — 04.11.07 @ 11:03 am
Wow, this is my first time seeing a picture of the stripper. Yikes!
I hope that these unfairly accused young men can get some semblance of a normal life after this. The same goes for all individuals who are blatantly lied on. My heart truly goes out to them.
Comment by Tami Gill — 04.11.07 @ 11:09 am
A big heaping of thanks also to LaShawn for being a part of the band of the few, the happy few, the band of brothers (and sisters) who helped from the first to try and expose this for what it was.
It would have been nice to have had help from CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, etc. But I guess they don’t understand the meaning of DNA evidence, the impossibility of being in two places at one time,
lie-detector tests, a DA who conspires to hide evidence, etc. (It took them more than a year to figure this out?)
So while the NET doesn’t have Peabody awards, I think it wouldn’t be wrong to start a “Zola” award (named after Emile Zola, author of “I Accuse!” in the Dreyfus case), and award one to LaShawn, for standing against the force of mob opinion in the cause of justice.
Comment by Seahawk — 04.11.07 @ 11:12 am
Duke Lacrosse Rape Case Dropped…
Looks like the wheels of justice turn pretty slow in Durham:The office of North Carolina Attorney General Roy Cooper will announce that he is dismissing all charges against three Duke Lacrosse players, ABC News has learned from sources close to…
Trackback by The Sandbox — 04.11.07 @ 11:12 am
Angel should focus on the very good advice of a Law School Professor of yore on argument.
1) If you have tried your best and made your point, sit down and shut up.
2) If you have tried your best and not made your point, sit down and shut up.
Comment by Vanderleun — 04.11.07 @ 11:13 am
Two things:
1. When are we going to see charges against the stripper who filed a false police report?
2. Ms. Barber is correct to use the word “fantasy” in this case. The whole concoction is a lie, yes, but I believe her point is that the woman keeps claiming to have been raped by multiple men, and perhaps she does so because this is a fantasy for her.
Comment by Michael Chaney — 04.11.07 @ 11:14 am
I would think the main difference between using the word fantasy and lie is that the former carries a connotation that the false accusation is based upon a mistaken belief of the accuser, while in the latter the false accusation is a result of intentionally fabricated testimony. I would say that the former is probably more commonly used in defense proceedings as it does not deny the pain and suffering of the accused but rather addresses the accuracy of the memories/testimony.
Without being a contrarian, I agree with Angel that in this case the latter seems more apropriate.
Comment by submandave — 04.11.07 @ 11:21 am
MC,
“…the woman keeps claiming to have been raped by multiple men, and perhaps she does so because this is a fantasy for her.”
Again, the major problem I have with this is is plays into the long-discredited theory that rape is a common fantasy of women. If someone falsely claims multiple times that a police officer beat him up, does that mean he fantasizes about being beat up by police officers? The logic doesn’t hold up. The only reason the word fantasy is being used is to further denigrate an obviously very sick individual who clearly has issues.
OK, here’s the final word. It’s strange that some on this board assume my use of the word “fantasy” negates or downplays that the stripper’s story was a LIE. How people reasonably come to that conclusion is a mystery only for nitpickers to rehash, but they’ll have to do it on someone else’s blog. I’m having the last word in this asinine discussion, and subsequent comments with the word “fantasy” in them will be cast into the ether. - Admin
Comment by Angel — 04.11.07 @ 11:21 am
If someone falsely claims multiple times that a police officer beat him up, does that mean he fantasizes about being beat up by police officers?
I would say yes. Most likely so he/she can collect on the lawsuit that would follow such an event.
Comment by Rich — 04.11.07 @ 11:41 am
Anyone think there will be a movie about this? Of course not. It doesn’t fit the Hollywood PC mold.
I am not sure whether that is a fantasy or an opinion, but I suspect I will find out.
Comment by heliotrope — 04.11.07 @ 11:43 am
Hee-hee!
La Shawn… I totally understand why you decided to ban commenting these past few weeks. Some people just won’t quit!
Comment by Tate — 04.11.07 @ 11:43 am
Well, illiterate low-lifes get raped too. Not that this lady did apparently. I am not concerned with her socio-economic status, but her behavior and choices were dreadful.
I hope that the gang of 88 at Duke as well as Sharpton and Jesse have to answer for their choices as well, Sharpton should be sued for defamation. He … has made racist, inflamatory statements that resulted in deaths. He belongs behind bars.
Trey
Although I totally agree with you about Sharpton, as a rule, I don’t allow commenters to call people the r-word, whether they are or not. It’s distracting, and I think it’s much more compelling to demonstrate that he is rather than calling him the r-word. - Admin
Comment by Trey Monror — 04.11.07 @ 11:57 am
Any attorneys here? Is it possible to sue someone for falsely accusing you of such a heinous crime? I know she probably doesn’t have any money to go after, but she should spend a little time in jail thinking about what she did.
Comment by batyah — 04.11.07 @ 11:58 am
Hmmm, at what point are people going to start apoligizing to those young men and their families for the hell they went through? Anyone wanna take bets on the odds that the two pharisees Jackson and Sharpton are on their way down to NC to apoligize face to face for what they’ve done? How about the gang of 88?
Yea didn’t think so…
While I’m not a fan of lawsuits, I’ll make an exception this time…
Comment by Greg Laurich — 04.11.07 @ 12:00 pm
Why shouldn’t the Group of 88 be required to appear before the accused and apologize for calling them well groomed, overly advantaged (and probably legacy) victimizers?
Jessie could be called in to make it all rhyme.
Comment by heliotrope — 04.11.07 @ 12:01 pm
Jesse should pay for the three falsely accused college students.
She lied. This is what I talk about when I publish The Truth.
Comment by Chief RZ — 04.11.07 @ 12:04 pm
Now, I’m doing it! When did Crystal Magnum become a “lady”?
Comment by heliotrope — 04.11.07 @ 12:04 pm
LaShawn,
Why are you always jumping down my throat? It’s a point of discussion like any other on any other board. Unless, of course, you have a f______ about me!
You caught me!
- Admin
Comment by Angel — 04.11.07 @ 12:05 pm
It’s not important, batyah. It was part of a weird discussion that hopefully is over now. - Admin
Comment by batyah — 04.11.07 @ 12:14 pm
Just for situations like this, I’d like to see a law opening prosecutors that conduct these kind of malicious or egregiously bad prosecutions up to criminal prosecution. (We’re not talking about cases where the prosecutors have good evidence but lose anyway, just about the really heinous cases that shouldn’t have been brought in the first place, or persist even after it becomes obvious to all and sundry that the case should be dropped.) If convicted of wrongful prosecution, said prosecutor should suffer the same sentence he was trying to impose on the people he wrongfully accused. In Nifong’s case, that’d be, what? 20 years?
Yes, such a law would come too late to go after Nifong with. But it would keep other prosecutors from following his example.
Comment by Erbo — 04.11.07 @ 12:17 pm
Agreed that the Group of 88 should get some heat for their public prejudging of the case. Keeping their statements available along with their names, so that students and parents can avoid their classes would be the minimal start.
One thing that I hope results from this fiasco is a decrease in frat houses hiring strippers. I’m not real hopeful that such kids will start acting like real adults, but I’m hopeful.
Comment by Ed Nutter — 04.11.07 @ 12:18 pm
Erbo,
That’s ridiculous. What you do is keep everything under wraps until the grand jury actually indicts someone. Also gag orders are in place for the prosecution and defense until such time. Of course, you can’t do anything about leaks. But, it’s something. The important thing is to protect the reputations of all involved until it can be established that an actual crime occurred.
That whole scenario of throwing prosecutors in jail smacks of comic-book justice. Does anyone really think Nifong will last much longer?
Comment by Angel — 04.11.07 @ 12:28 pm
batyah,
If she made the story of out of whole cloth, yes, jail time would seem reasonable. But, all that has occurred for now is that the people of NC have concluded they don’t have enough evidence to move forward. What has to happen now is a criminal investigation of the woman in question to determine what crime she committed. What are the statutes involved? If she sticks to her story, and the case is dropped, what is the actual crime. This belongs in the civil arena.
Comment by Angel — 04.11.07 @ 12:34 pm
#40 Erbo suggests: “If convicted of wrongful prosecution, said prosecutor should suffer the same sentence he was trying to impose on the people he wrongfully accused.”
I love the idea! However, since lawyers would be writing the law, I suspect they would come up with some list of “degrees of unlawful prosecution.” Such as: “unintentional wrongful prosecution,” “justified wrongful prosecution,” “wrongful prosecution under mitigating circumstances,” “wrongful prosecution under the influence of inadequate preparation,” ” wrongful prosecution with a pure heart,” etc.
Comment by heliotrope — 04.11.07 @ 12:49 pm
I am happy for the Duke 3, but I also feel a loss due to the end of an interesting diversion. It has been entertaining watching the MSM trip all over themselves while being shown up by mere bloggers.
I know there will be more to come but I doubt that it will have the same intensity. Now that the lacrosse players freedom will no longer be on the line, and this case can in no way further their agendas, I expect the MSM will ignore the Duke hoax as much as possible.
The lying, gang-rape-fetishist, who at any given moment has enough sperm in her to re-populate New Orleans, would have made for some great court TV if the defense lawyers could have gotten her on the witness stand.
I guess we will just have to settle for watching the miserable end of Nifong’s puny career.
Comment by Brian S. — 04.11.07 @ 12:52 pm
A pox on Nifong for much of the nonsense and injustice. Now the media might once again start spending time on important issues like the now-revealed paternity of Anna Nicole’s baby.
Btw, what does The View’s Rosie have to pontificate about this Duke case?
Why can’t Fox have a competing version of that View using Lashawn Barber, Michelle Malkin, Kirsten Powers and maybe someone like Dr. Helen?
Comment by leila butler — 04.11.07 @ 12:57 pm
I agree with all that you have said and would add this caveat to college sports teams. Avoid the very appearance of evil.
Forgo the stripper and donate the money to charity.
Comment by Cricket — 04.11.07 @ 1:07 pm
Decision may be near on Duke case…
RALEIGH — The three defendants in the Duke lacrosse sexual assault case and their families arrived …
Trackback by Unpartisan.com Political News and Blog Aggregator — 04.11.07 @ 1:13 pm
#16,
I agree that no sane person would have ever gone forward with those charges. Harsh reality is, they did and many people (Duke 88 and Nifong) still believe a crime was committed.
Comment by dexybet — 04.11.07 @ 1:13 pm
Leila,
Yuck! Does there have to be a “conservative” version of everything? Next, you’ll be telling me there should be Christian versions of pop music. Oh, wait…
Comment by Angel — 04.11.07 @ 1:13 pm
If I use the word fantasy will I be attacked? Give me a break! Lie or Fantasy who cares!
Comment by dexybet — 04.11.07 @ 1:23 pm
Why can’t Fox have a competing version of that View using Lashawn Barber, Michelle Malkin, Kirsten Powers and maybe someone like Dr. Helen?
I would have to DVR that one everyday!
Comment by dexybet — 04.11.07 @ 1:33 pm
Leila,
You could never do “The View” with that line-up because they would all fight over who was supposed to be the “sexy” one. (Two of them would be mistaken.) Also, you think the women on the real “View” cut each other off now? Your version would have to be on tape. Although it would be jarring to see them continue an interview with missing teeth, black eyes and various other injuries. I can hear it now.
Coming up on The Conservative View: Contrarians and the women who love them!
Comment by Angel — 04.11.07 @ 1:49 pm
“No attack occurred”…
Breaking: NC Attorney General dismisses charges in Duke lax case
Fact summary of the case will be distributed next week.
Trackback by Michelle Malkin — 04.11.07 @ 2:55 pm
Roy Cooper… Paraphrasing here: “These three young men are INNOCENT!!!!”
Comment by Tate — 04.11.07 @ 2:55 pm
Actually, LaShawn, I think she had no ‘fantasies’ at all. She showed up for ‘work’ drunk and high, and not having washed after somehow obtaining the DNA of a large number of men on and in her body and clothing, and the cops arrived. They were going to take her to a mental health facility (which she’d been to before) so she told them she was raped and they took her to the ER, swabbed her, and released her. Then, when interviewed by the police, she could identify no one. Nor did she identify anyone the second time. Only when Sgt Gottlieb used the irregular ‘line up’ was she definitely told by the cops that she had to identify someone ‘or else.’
She’s clearly had been trying to get out of the hole she dug for herself but Nifong and his team of ‘policemen’ would not let her.
Comment by John Costello — 04.11.07 @ 2:55 pm
Snifbong is a complete idiot. I hope they throw the book at him. Then pick up the book and throw it again….and again…
Comment by Craig — 04.11.07 @ 2:58 pm
I’ll approve it if you clear up whether I’d be a “mistaken” one. I don’t know if that’s a veiled insult or compliment. - Admin
Comment by Angel — 04.11.07 @ 3:03 pm
“Innocent.”
Again, Cool. Just plain cool.
TaterCon
Comment by TaterCon — 04.11.07 @ 3:03 pm
#41
Umm..they were Lacrosse players, not fraternity men. Snarky comments about “frat boys” have nothing to do with this issue. Checkity-check yourself, before you wreck yourself.
Misfit
Delta Sig ‘90
Comment by misfit — 04.11.07 @ 3:10 pm
I really wasn’t expecting the lawyers to use the word innocent, however it has been obivious to a blind man that these young men were innocent since May 13, 2006.
Pingback by 7.62mm Justice — 04.11.07 @ 3:17 pm
Duke Lacrosse Players: North Carolina Attorney General Roy Cooper Proclaims Them Innocent And Drops ALL Charges…
It’s finally over. The North Carolina Attorney General has declared Collin Finnerty, Reade Seligmann and David Evans innocent and has dropped all charges against them. These were charges that never should have been leveled against them in the firs…
Trackback by The World According To Carl — 04.11.07 @ 3:18 pm
I predict those who convicted the three players without a trial (Duke professors, New Black Panther Party, Jesse Jackson, etc.) will neither agree with the decision nor ever rescind their premature public convictions of the players.
Comment by Carl — 04.11.07 @ 3:20 pm
The Attorney General just dropped ALL charges on the three players. He went farther and said these boys were INNOCENT. That had to be music to their ears. The AG said that Nifong should never gone forward with this case. And, perhaps he is going to face prosecution, and should be dis-barred! I think he only went forward to win the election. And, perhaps it has all backfired as of today.
Comment by Barb — 04.11.07 @ 3:20 pm
Wow…You are touchy…Let’s see there’s 4 people…2 would not be sexy…I’ve been flirting with you like crazy….+ You hate me = I must be “mistaken”.
Didn’t understand some of that, but it sounds good, so I’ll approve the other comment.
- Admin
Comment by Angel — 04.11.07 @ 3:21 pm
#42: “What you do is keep everything under wraps until the grand jury actually indicts someone. Also gag orders are in place for the prosecution and defense until such time. Of course, you can’t do anything about leaks. But, it’s something. The important thing is to protect the reputations of all involved until it can be established that an actual crime occurred.”
Which is exactly what Nifong didn’t do…and if he had, this case might have sunk without a trace before anyone outside the area ever knew about it. It’s toward prosecutors who act as he did that my proposal is directed.
“That whole scenario of throwing prosecutors in jail smacks of comic-book justice.”
No, it’s called “making the punishment fit the crime.”
Comment by Erbo — 04.11.07 @ 3:22 pm
Or, do you want me to list who I think would be “mistaken”? Oh…but then I would be insulting them. Would that be okay? Or, maybe a sense of humor would negate all of it.
Nope. I got it. - Admin
Comment by Angel — 04.11.07 @ 3:23 pm
Erbo,
Sorry…but most cases are circumstantial. Square that with the reluctance of juries these days to convict unless they see “CSI” style forensics. You would hamstring too many prosecutors in the interest of punishing one symbolically.
Comment by Angel — 04.11.07 @ 3:25 pm
Erbo,
That’s actually knee-jerk justice. I gave you too much credit before.
Comment by Angel — 04.11.07 @ 3:27 pm
What I wonder about is how many people are in prison today because of ROGUE DAs filing charges so that they can win an ELECTION?????
Comment by Redleg — 04.11.07 @ 3:29 pm
Breaking News on Duke lacrosse case…
The Attorney General of North Carolina has dropped ALL charges against the three accused Duke University lacrosse players. They have been found innocent of all charges because of a rush to accuse by the District Attorney Nifong. He said Nifong pushed…..
Trackback by Tidbits And Treasures — 04.11.07 @ 3:30 pm
Wow,
What I didn’t expect to see happen is all these people deciding it’s open season on the accuser now. This didn’t happen to Kobe’s girl.
Actually I did expect that…I was hoping I was wrong. Drudge has her “dossier” linked on the front page.
Comment by Angel — 04.11.07 @ 3:31 pm
Duke Rape Case Closed…
North Carolina Attorney General Roy Cooper just finished his new conference in which he announced he will petition for all charges to be dropped in the Duke rape case. Where do the people involved in this case go from here? …
Trackback by Fire and Hammer — 04.11.07 @ 3:32 pm
I think Crystal Gail Mangum belongs in a prison psycho ward…
Comment by Tate — 04.11.07 @ 3:34 pm
Redleg,
If you really wonder about that, check out (or as Rosie says, “Google it”) the history of the Fells Acre molestation case here in Massachusetts. It is an aggregious example of just that. And pretty-boy Romney doesn’t cover himself in glory with this one either.
Comment by Angel — 04.11.07 @ 3:34 pm
Now my question is: Was this the way Nifong operated in all prosecutions? If so, or even if it is just an aberration, we will probably see a lot of cases reexamined for Brady violations. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are even some new trials granted as a result.
Comment by Stella! — 04.11.07 @ 3:43 pm
Angel
That was not a rhetorical question. It is a well known fact that INNOCENT people go to jail/prison every day. This is not a Democrat/Republican problem, it is a National problem.
There are power hungry DAs all over this land.
One other thing that bothers me and that is all it takes for a man to lose his Constitutional rights is for a woman to cry abuse/rape. If my wife of 32 years was to say that I abused her then the government would take my guns from me, NO QUESTIONS ASKED.
NOT RIGHT and every women in this country should be demanding this liar’s head for lying. It is going to make it even harder to convict someone of rape sans 30 eyewitnesses.
Comment by Redleg — 04.11.07 @ 3:44 pm
Cooper says his office has considered charging the stripper-accuser, but decided that it’s “in the best interest of justice†not to charge her. I suspect he’s alluding to her psychological problems.
That’s kinda too bad–she could plead guilty in exchange for a sentence of “mental health facilty.” She’s not going to get any help in that regard from her supporters; all she is to them is a pawn or an illustration of an archetype. La Shawn and readers probably care more about her as an -actual person- than anyone in the Group of 88, despite what we think of her behavior.
And I hope she’s not still stripping/hooking, because everyone in the country knows she’s lost all her credibility when it comes to reporting an assault. It’s become more unsafe than it was before.
Nifong, OTOH, not a shred of empathy.
Comment by Radish — 04.11.07 @ 3:48 pm
Duke Lacrosse Case Dropped:…
As she has been ever since the case began, LaShawn Barber is your go-to blogger for breaking news and opinion on this development.
Trackback by Pajamas Media — 04.11.07 @ 3:49 pm
I predict those who convicted the three players without a trial (Duke professors, New Black Panther Party, Jesse Jackson, etc.)
Don’t wait for it, besides they have other interest right now. Jesse and Al wants to un-Imus us. The Black P Party can’t risk being called House N$%&%&& or Sell-Out. The Duke 88 MINUS 1 might loose credibility in the class room. Every one of them should be listed in the lawsuit. Crystal should be charged!
Comment by dexybet — 04.11.07 @ 4:12 pm
In the not too distant past, if a black man in the South was accused of raping a white woman, he’d be lucky to make it to trial instead of being lynched. Of all people, blacks in the South should know the dangers of rushing to judgment and denying the presumption of innocence. Making up for past injustices (and there were many) is no excuse for committing an injustice today.
Comment by Larry J — 04.11.07 @ 4:14 pm
I hope one of the former defendents will become the finest defense attorney that Duke Law School ever produced.
Comment by Tom Bosee — 04.11.07 @ 4:22 pm
#72 Angel–
Why are you surprised it is now open season on the stripper? It has certainly been open season on the Duke lacrosse players. Now that they’ve been proven innocent, why shouldn’t the stripper face (reap) what she sowed?
Louise B
Comment by Louise B — 04.11.07 @ 4:33 pm
La Shawn Barber is also covering the story in depth at her website. Michelle Malkin also has extensive coverage, including the transcript of the press conference. Good work, Michelle!
Pingback by A Walk In The Park — 04.11.07 @ 4:38 pm
Not only Nifong should have apologize, atone, etc. What about the so-called members of the “Black Community” (I hate that term: it’s as if all African-Americans are of the same mindset) in Raleigh-Durham who were demanding the Duke players’ heads? Their demands to prosecute these three young men went on long after it became clear that the accuser was lying.
Comment by langtry — 04.11.07 @ 4:46 pm
Duke Rape Case Dropped By NC Attorney General…
Nifong’s Victims Cleared of all criminal charges. The three unfairly accused Duke Lacrosse players will finally be freed from all charges: The office of North Carolina Attorney General Roy Cooper will announce that he is dismissing all char…
Trackback by Stuck On Stupid — 04.11.07 @ 4:52 pm
La Shawn -
A simple thank you for all the great posts and opinions you expressed regarding the Duke Rape Case. You were a wonderful, positive force on this topic.
Comment by Chris Ford — 04.11.07 @ 5:11 pm
Without getting into labels and namecalling, Mike Nifong was the genesis of these charges and should be held to account. If after a review of the evidence by the AG shows “no evidence” just what the heck was Mike doing? Smoking a Nibong? For what damage this man wrought he should be disbarred and fined very heavily.
Comment by Schratboy — 04.11.07 @ 5:17 pm
Well, illiterate low-lifes get raped too.
Who is illiterate? The stripper? I figure that one who maintains a B average in college can read and write.
Attacks on her character are to be expected, but the “illiterate” comments reek of stereotyping.
Wow, this is my first time seeing a picture of the stripper. Yikes!
Shameful. Realize that if she was a devout Christian living a righteous life and working hard in school and/or in a legitimate profession, she would have the exact same face.
Comment by Shade — 04.11.07 @ 5:33 pm
GREAT live-blogging, LaShawn :).
I’d like to add to the list of Things That Oughta Be Done:
1) Since Duke University threw them under the bus, they should be required to REFUND all tuition, fees, and book costs the LaCrosse Three have EVER had to pay to attend that foul school and give them free scholarships to ANY AND ALL education they want in the future. And that’s just the LEAST they should do!
2) The 88 Duke professors (yes… actually 87, with one stray) who issued their inflammatory statements should be forced to resign. I know most of them probably have tenure, but they have used their positions to aggrivate what was a very bad situation. Forcing them to resign would be different from firing them (where tenure is concerned), and could be accomplished by transferring them to teaching courses like advanced basket-weaving. Their actions in this case have proven, beyond all doubt, that they have no grasp of common sense or the law of the land (innocent until proven guilty), and are therefore ignorant and actively dangerous as teachers.
3) Jackson and Sharpton should be sued for making inflammatory statements in the news media. Sharpton was VERY careful to state that he was taking the prosecutors word for what was happening, so I don’t think he can be prosecuted for libel or slander (a quote from Sharpton to Sean Hannity was, “… I think the prosecutor knows more about this than you and I do…”), and probably Jackson was equally careful, but what both of these men have said SHOULD be prosecuted. If there isn’t anything actionable here, there SHOULD be, and it should be agressivly persued.
4) The New BP should be sued agressively for libel and/or slander, and should be sued for agitation in this case. From what I can see, they weren’t as careful as Sharpton was in making public statements.
5) The news media who pushed the story beyond the “reasonable doubt” and “innocent until proven guilty” level should be included in a massive lawsuit including the others mentioned.
6) Nifong and Mangum should both go to prison for perpetrating this hoax.
Comment by mamapajamas — 04.11.07 @ 5:43 pm
Mamapajamas @90;
I am in total agreement with what should be done. I look forward to hearing what the attorneys for the Duke three will do next!!!
Comment by Tate — 04.11.07 @ 5:57 pm
WOW! You know, this whole situation is a disgrace for the players and the alleged accuser. They knew they paid for some fun that night and are far from being innocent. They just got busted is how I see it. However, it’s a way far more disgrace on how these “Ladies of the night” can disrespect their bodies for a few bucks, then turn around and want to be RESPECTED. I hope they ALL learned a lesson from this. Nuff said!
Comment by Blezzed Soul — 04.11.07 @ 6:09 pm
Blezzed Soul @92,
The Duke three are INNOCENT! INNOCENT! INNOCENT! INNOCENT! INNOCENT! INNOCENT! INNOCENT! INNOCENT! INNOCENT! INNOCENT!
Comment by Tate — 04.11.07 @ 6:13 pm
Redleg,
“If my wife of 32 years was to say that I abused her then the government would take my guns from me, NO QUESTIONS ASKED.”
As well they should.
Comment by Angel — 04.11.07 @ 6:26 pm
LaShawn, thank you for being one of the great beacons of light through this dark year of the Duke Hoax. The ability to think clearly (and to see through bull) is apparently a rare quality these days among those who write/report for a living. You and KC Johnson are two of the big heroes in this mess.
It was the Duke hoax that brought me to your site in the first place, but I reckon I’ll keep checking in from time to time. I don’t agree with everything you say, but you always have good points and always state them well.
Thanks again,
Jim Curry
Comment by jc — 04.11.07 @ 6:27 pm
Louise,
Because it’s clear this woman has very serious problems. Someone earlier did make a good point…She is a real person who did something very wrong, but she is not the devil. A lot was made of the “privileged” Duke kids. They were lucky they had access to protections like good defense attorneys and families and community support. This woman has none of that. The only support she has is from people who want to use her. It would be like stomping on a flea.
I’m not saying there should be no repercussions, but I think we need to step away from this and let it go. It’s over. Anything else would be vengeance, not justice.
Comment by Angel — 04.11.07 @ 6:32 pm
Excellent work on this case, La Shawn.
Considering that you’ve had 44 posts and 2 op-eds on this, I suppose you’ll be ready to discuss it all on my radio show this Saturday…
CJL
Comment by cjl — 04.11.07 @ 6:42 pm
Not going there in this thread. - Admin
Comment by L. Ho — 04.11.07 @ 6:48 pm
LaShawn — thank you for being on the story from the beginning.
I have a small request — how about not naming the category for these posts “Duke Rape Case”? A rape never happened. Call it the “Duke Lacross Case” or if you must mention rape, call it the “Duke Rape Hoax”?
Thanks!
Comment by DB — 04.11.07 @ 6:59 pm
Wednesday Evening Links…
My Friend, Milton Friedman, by Charles Brunie in City Journal. Many stories about Friedman. I did not realize that he was an academic pariah. He never followed the Party Line.Duke case updates at LaShawn and Durham in WonderlandCamille Paglia interview…
Trackback by Maggie's Farm — 04.11.07 @ 7:00 pm
Angel-
You sure come across as having a chip on your seemingly moonbat shoulder, a real nattering nabob of negativity in responding, at least in my estimation.
My alternate “The View” would, at least, have women with IQs bigger than their shoes sizes. And which two would not be sexy? Seems to me all four are sexy in their own way. And no speech impediments like Baba Wawa displays. What is O’Donnell really qualified as expert on other than weight issues or lesbianism? Steel can’t be melted? Hate America first? The twit thinks American men are keeping women down. The Muslim male is given a free pass, what with culture being given free reign in the Mideast. I’ve had libs tell me if Muslim women don’t like their circumstances, it is up to THEM to change the way they are treated by their masters. Yeah, right. Love to see your ilk and Rosie adapting to life in a burka. Oh, that’s right, Rosie and Ellen G. would already be headless and dead.
Comment by leila butler — 04.11.07 @ 7:09 pm
I can understand you’re not printing my first comment. It is nice to see that “justice” is done and that this whole hoax (lack of a better word) should never have gotten out of hand. Perhaps the whole justice system will look upon this and clean up their act. How many others were rail roaded into jail, based upon their color and lack of money. Your coverage will excellent on this subject, thanks.
Comment by L. Ho — 04.11.07 @ 7:17 pm
Where exactly does a person go to get their reputation back? Let’s ask the activist professors at Duke, the black race baiters, and white social class envy liberals. I wonder where’s jackson, sharpton and the new black panther party at right now. Like I’ve always said, people should use their brains to think and not their skin. I feel so sorry for our nation. It’s pretty pathetic that ignorant, weak minded people have to try and drag everybody else into their self loathing worthless lives.
Comment by Tyrone — 04.11.07 @ 7:44 pm
Anyone taking bets on Al Sharpton or Jessie Jackson taking the time and money to help the accuser-stripper with her mental health problems?
I know…I know…stupid bet.
Oh and a reminder…even O.J. wasn’t declared innocent.
Comment by Carl — 04.11.07 @ 7:53 pm
Leila,
It’s called a sense of humor. Google it! By the way…I’m a man, baby!
Also, I’m well aware of the threat of Muslim extemists. I was screaming about the Taliban and Al-Queda long before 9/11.
Did you say something about a chip? Funny, I don’t see one…where did it….oh…Leila, give me my chip back!
Comment by Angel — 04.11.07 @ 8:55 pm
Where Are They Tonight?…
The charges against the three innocent Duke University lacrosse players were finally dropped today, but this is far from over. Reade Seligmann, Collin Finnerty and David Evans handled themselves with class and grace today, but there are plenty of fol…..
Trackback by JammieWearingFool — 04.11.07 @ 8:56 pm
Leila,
Who quotes Spiro Agnew these days?
Comment by Angel — 04.11.07 @ 8:59 pm
I think the reason this was so compelling for people on both sides was again the bugaboo of color. We’ve been playing tit-for-tat justice since O.J. It’s not getting us anywhere as a nation.
So, all those folks that want to see lawsuits galore (and I’m sure they’ll be a few) get ready because when the next crazy race and sex event/crime/non-crime happens, remember what you said today and be consistent.
Comment by Angel — 04.11.07 @ 9:04 pm
There was a rush to judgement by the news media in this case. Nifong wanted to make political hay with the high-profile case. The “rape victim” lied and the Duke President and 87 or 88 faculty members jumped on the accusers band wagon. I hope that Duke University gets sued over this travesty of justice !!
Comment by Paul — 04.11.07 @ 9:13 pm
Hey Tater;
I’m hearing that the attorneys may file lawsuits against Duke U., Durham County and/or the state of North Carolina, and of course Mike Nifong… What say you?
Comment by Tate — 04.11.07 @ 9:13 pm
And, oh, I hear that the Duke three can recoup three times their expenses for this injustice…
Comment by Tate — 04.11.07 @ 9:18 pm
#108 Angel proclaims: “We’ve been playing tit-for-tat justice since O.J. It’s not getting us anywhere as a nation.”
The alternating list of the top ten examples that prove the assumption that we’ve been playing tit-for-tat justice since O.J. would be? ……….
Comment by heliotrope — 04.11.07 @ 9:29 pm
Malkin has a post of the latest in this farcical matter. La Shawn Barber has been all over this…
Pingback by eyehackerblog.com — 04.11.07 @ 9:30 pm
But, all that has occurred for now is that the people of NC have concluded they dont have enough evidence to move forward. - Angel
Actually, what I heard was full exculpation - a declaration of innocence which goes far beyond a mere lack of evidence to go forward.
They were lucky they had access to protections like good defense attorneys and families and community support. This woman has none of that. -Angel
For a great deal of the time,this woman had the full support of the Duke university administration and students, the surrounding community, her university, the NOI, the media, and her family.And, don’t forget the group of 88. Further, she has received a scholarship to college. As far as access to protections - this woman received extraordinary support of her lying manipulations that most criminals can only dream about. Untold hundreds of thousands were spent protecting her lies. She BLEW her support and that had nothing to do with her lack of privilege and everything to do with her lack of principles and class.
And, just for a refresher, the “lucky” boys had to move out of their home in fear, they lost their athletic careers due to the lack of support of their schools, they had to drop out of school due to a lack of support of their schools, they were intimidated by the NOI and fellow students and had no support to ensure their security, they had little support on the Duke campus and were villainized, and so on. As far as their local community, one can hardly accuse them of being supportive.
Only a highly selective memory would tout the imagined support received by the boys and say they were “lucky.” Further, watching one’s parents hock their life savings probably does not feel all that lucky, either.
Comment by ac — 04.11.07 @ 9:43 pm
Good words, AC. It would be nice if the citizens of Durham had to pony up the defense costs. Nifong obviously used this case for political gain and they voted for him. I’d also like to see some of the Duke Endownment go to restitution and a search for a President and 88 new professors. Unfortunately, none of this will happen. Durham ought to be looking for a number of police replacements and an entirely new DA staff. Seems that none of them had the moxie to try to apply the brakes to this run-away train.
In North Carolina, there doesn’t seem to be much in the system to stop something like this until it gets very bad and has much national attention. There also doesn’t seem to be much to stop an out-of-control DA. One wonders how many folks are doing time because of people like Nifong.
Comment by Bob — 04.11.07 @ 10:45 pm
Helio,
Don’t be so disingenuous. That’s all we do in this country all day, every day. Don’t pretend otherwise.
AC,
All that support you cite for the accuser went away the minute the klieg lights died. And, my original comments were posted before the actual press conference. You’re very selective in what you chose to quote. Even LaShawn says how important the support of family, friends and community were to the Duke kids, so they were indeed lucky. Everything I’ve said is in the spirit of moving forward. If you want a pound of flesh from this woman, I’m sure you’ll get it. But, I’m not handing you the knife.
Comment by Angel — 04.11.07 @ 11:18 pm
AC,
They were also lucky in that they had family willing to make that kind of sacrifice. Yeah, it sucks, but it’s over now. Hopefully, everyone involved can move forward and make decent lives for themselves.
Comment by Angel — 04.11.07 @ 11:22 pm
AC don’t forget that they’ve only raised about 1/3 of the money they now owe in legal fees. And they’ll never get their reputation back. You would think after the Kobe Bryant episode that we would not race to judgement but I guess I think too much…
Comment by Greg Laurich — 04.11.07 @ 11:23 pm
Angel, you’re just bangin’ the same old pans of racial discord by dismissing what the “white boys” suffered as a mere inconvenience because ultimately they are “lucky” cause they had so much wealth and family support. What the h*ll?? And the stripper is a “victim” cause everyone just wants to use her. Yeah, well, she’s still a liar (among other things) who was willing to DESTROY three innocent men’s lives, as well as all their families’ lives. That makes her wicked in my book. Just because you are poor, disadvantaged, and have few good role models in your life doesn’t automatically mean that you have to become a wicked person. In fact, I’m sick to death of that negative stereotyping of poor people — many poor people manage to have noble character and lead law-abiding lives.
Furthermore, if it is of any interest to you, in OUR legal system (the Talmud), judges are instructed NOT to favor the poor or give deference to the rich in any court case. Rather, “justice, justice, shall you pursue.”
Comment by batyah — 04.12.07 @ 3:49 am
RE characterizing Crystal Gayle Mangum — here deliberately and intentionally identified for the deliberate and intentional protective assistance of any others whom she might falsely accuse in the future — as a psychologically at-least-somewhat-excusable-victim-somehow:
But. . .then couldn’t, or more critically, shouldn’t, one also find comparably excusatory sympathy for Mike Nifong on the grounds of his similarly obvious mental health disability?
Or am I not properly understanding matters?
What if Nifong were to be characterized as similarly deranged in terms of his psychologically unhealthy need to maintain status through his position of power and authority?
Where exactly are we supposed to draw the line when it comes to cutting people slack on the grounds of their supposed psychological infirmities?
And on what grounds or principles, and why?
Comment by Acksiom — 04.12.07 @ 3:52 am
Angel;
I have no desire to pound the flesh from this woman….a figment of your imagination, as I support the decision of the family to “let it go.” I am simply pounding the flesh from your words because I disagreee with your assesment. BIG difference!
The support of the boy’s families was crucial. This is a far cry from “They were lucky they had access to protections like good defense attorneys and families and community support. This woman has none of that.”
Your comments reflect the notion that the boys had widespread support and that Mangum had none. This is simply not the case and Mangum had enormous support for a very long time.
By the way, how has Mangum been living all this year? How has she been paying her bills? Who has paid for her legal support? How much has been spent on her support? Who paid for the birth of her child? Sounds to me as if she has had a lot of support, and one doubts that it has come at the sacrifice of her life savings.
Lastly, it is hardly being selective to highlight your highly flawed statement that there was simply a lack of evidence to go forward. The fact that they had been found innocent after months of investigating every shred of evidence is IMPORTANT.
Oh wait, we were supposed to know that you had not actually seen the press conference before we nailed you on yet another erroneous statement.
Comment by ac — 04.12.07 @ 7:16 am
Helio;
GREAT question and hardly disengenuous, but it is unlikely that you will get a satisfactory answer as I am sure you expected.
Acksiom,
I have wondered about the very same thing. We seem to pathologize the bad behavior of a certain segment of society as if THEIR bad behavior must indicate that they are mentally ill and can never be “just plain ugly decisions based upon loving themselves too much and their neighbors too little.”
If it is true that one is merely a reflection of one’s background, then it would be just as logical to excuse “those who have been raised to think they are privileged” for their bad behavior.
Batya;
Also a GREAT point. Poor people can be very noble and laying every negative at the foot of poverty and not choice is wrong.
Comment by jb — 04.12.07 @ 7:32 am
The Easter Thursday Knucklehead Festival Part One…
Some may say the first Knuckleheads were the men and women who crucified Jesus. In memory of them, we’ll be having a festival today.
Our first winner today is Mike Nifong….
Trackback by The Florida Masochist — 04.12.07 @ 8:27 am
AC,
I don’t know if you noticed, but all the comments have time stamps. So, if you were inclined to be fair to me, you could have figured it out that I hadn’t seen the actual press conference at the time of that post.
And monetary support hardly replaces the support that these kids had. Making this statement is not bashing them or taking anything away from them. They had and continue to have the love and support of their families, friends and community.
Which would you rather have: Jesse, Al, the 88, BPP all running to the spotlight and pledging money (We have no idea if anybody made good on their pledges) or what the Duke kids had. They went through a terrible ordeal. But, to deny they are in a much better position from which to recover and go on to lead productive lives is simply wrong.
Comment by Angel — 04.12.07 @ 9:17 am
batyah,
Not once in any of my posts have I referred to the Duke kids as the “white boys”. You did that. Don’t project that nonsense onto me. I’m intrigued by your use of the word justice. The press conference made clear that charging the accuser would not serve the interests of justice.
Not once did I excuse her behavior. In fact, I called her a liar several times. Since she is by your definition, “wicked”, what would be the proper punishment? Should we stone her? Or, ostracize her? Or, should we simply walk away from all of it because it really is over and let everybody put their lives back together as best as they can.
What some of you want is retribution, not justice. Not even the families want that. What should happen now is we all walk away and simply let these people put their lives back together as best they can. Hopefully, they can all go on to lead productive lives. And we have learned (hopefully) that the justice system can be corrupt like any other institution.
Comment by Angel — 04.12.07 @ 9:29 am
La Shawn
Airhead student at “dancer’s” college in Durhan was disappointed Duke accused weren’t bought to trial.
Gives me pause about quality of students there.
Comment by Frank Zavisca — 04.12.07 @ 9:29 am
I don’t know if you noticed, but all the comments have time stamps. So, if you were inclined to be fair to me, you could have figured it out that I hadn’t seen the actual press conference at the time of that post. - angel
Listen up all you posters out there!
Please check the time stamps on Angel’s posts. Also, please determine what time zone he lives in and what stations may have aired what shows in whatever area he lives in BEFORE you point out any errors in his posts. Otherwise, you are simply not being FAIR to Angel.
Angel;
Quite frankly, it goes without saying that monetary support hardly replaces the love of a family, and if you had confined your original comment to say that the lacrosse players were fortunate that they had the enormous support of their very loving families, that would have been one thing. But you actually said; ” “They were lucky they had access to protections like good defense attorneys and families and community support. This woman has none of that†which is highly inaccurate. In other words, once again, the debate is not over the quality of the support, but the errancy of your statement.
Further, Mangum had far more than just the support of Jesse, Al, the 88, BPP and the boys had far less than the support of the Duke community or the Durham community. Was it the “supportive of the boys” community that voted for a man that had disastrous approval ratings before he decided to skewer these young men. The examples of the lack of support these boys received from the community are staggering and the examples of the support that Mangum received from the community are numerous.
Also, do we know that Mangum had NO support from her family?
Comment by ac — 04.12.07 @ 10:00 am
Helio,
Am I going to sit here and list trials for you? No. I’m not one of your students. I still contend that since O.J., there has been an ever-increasing notion that we have to take sides in trials based on color and not justice and this has contributed to much of the racial animus in America today.
Blacks and whites are equally to blame for this. I have come to believe that we are with the increase in the number of multiracial children in this country, we are entering the “Post-Race Era”. I have also become more convinced that race is largely a social construct by which we can classify (or subjugate, if we choose) people. There is something unique about the black and white divide in America. I’m still figuring it out. Unlike some on this board, I don’t claim to know everything (to sometimes laughable effect), but I do have opinions about current matters. I’m sorry that people don’t agree with me all the time, if at all. But, that’s not my problem.
Comment by Angel — 04.12.07 @ 10:05 am
AC,
You’re a peach!
Comment by Angel — 04.12.07 @ 10:06 am
AC,
The times are Eastern Standard. I think the presser was around 2 or 2:30 EST. So, it’s not as complicated as you would make it sound. I do realize you think you’re being humorous as my expense. Let’s see if I can rustle up a belly laugh. Wait for it…wait for it….No, it’s just not coming. Sorry, man.
Comment by Angel — 04.12.07 @ 10:24 am
AC,
Again, I ask everyone…Whose support would you rather have: shallow race-hustlers and spotlight chasers or your family and friends? I do feel bad for this woman. Sympathy does not excuse her behavior. But, it’s clear in the words of my grandmother, “She wasn’t raised right!”
I didn’t much of what was posted here about the case because I was pretty certain of what I would find. And, I think I’m probably going to leave the would-be justice-mongers to their own devices. It’s over and I’m really done with it.
Comment by Angel — 04.12.07 @ 10:29 am
Angel;
If being a peach means that one cannot dissect your statements in the same fashion that you dissect others, then you are right and I am not a peach. If being a peach means that once should recognize that you are superior in your embrace of the high road,then you are right and I am not a peach. If being a peach means that one should have looked at the time stamp on your comment,then you are right and I am not a peach.
I don’t even like peaches because they have fuzzy skin.
Comment by ac — 04.12.07 @ 10:31 am
AC,
Being a peach means you are too fuzzy, tend to spoil quickly and jealous of your tastier cousin, the nectarine.
Comment by Angel — 04.12.07 @ 10:40 am
Again, I ask everyone…Whose support would you rather have: shallow race-hustlers and spotlight chasers or your family and friends? - angel
AGAIN, I respond…we all know the kind of support we value and AGAIN, that’s simply not what you said originally.
Comment by ac — 04.12.07 @ 10:55 am
Angel, all I’m saying is this: a crime has been committed against these Duke students. Nifong may get disbarred, and Duke may get sued, and the state of NC may get sued. Fine. They all deserve to be punished. What happens to the stripper? Nothing. Yet she is the one who started this whole mess. She should not just walk away, scot free. There must be consequences for making false accusations. Perhaps she should do community service. Perhaps she should be forced to pay restitution to the victims that she created. I don’t know specifically HOW to punish her, but I do know that justice is not served if she walks away free just because she’s pathetic.
Comment by batyah — 04.12.07 @ 11:04 am
So,
AGAIN, here we are…we have deconstructed my statement to the Nth degree, even though we all know the intent. And, so it goes…
Comment by Angel — 04.12.07 @ 11:15 am
Batyah,
I’m not saying she should get away with anything. But, that is not up to me. E-mail or call the Attorney General’s office in N.C. with your suggestions. I’m just speaking to my opinion. Everything else is out of my hands.
AC,
I stick by my original statement. These boys were lucky. If that’s wrong to say, then I’m wrong. But, I feel comfortable with it.
Comment by Angel — 04.12.07 @ 11:18 am
You’re comparing facing prison time and incurring millions in legal fees to defend yourself against a race-baiting procecutor with the weight of the state behind him to that tripe? It’s a good thing you’re not man enough to use your real name, “Joe,” Jeff, or whatever you’re going by these days. I’d mock you mercilessly and publicly for making such idiotic comparisons. And what you think of me is about as interesting to me as watching flies gathering on dung. - Admin
Comment by Joe — 04.12.07 @ 12:00 pm
I’m still trying to figure out what in the world O.J. has to do with this matter.
Comment by RedBeard — 04.12.07 @ 12:37 pm
On a slightly different note, what is wrong with Nifong? Does anyone want to share their insights? Why would he pursue a case that surely he himself knew was bogus?
Comment by batyah — 04.12.07 @ 12:38 pm
Batyah, that seems like the million-dollar question. He is either a complete idiot, or he was so hungry for a headlining conviction that he willfully hid the facts of the case. I’m voting for the latter, based upon the fact that idiots don’t graduate from law school, but intelligent creeps sometimes do.
Comment by RedBeard — 04.12.07 @ 12:46 pm
OK, so let’s say Nifong’s career is in the dumpster (rightly so), the accuser gets community service and a slap on the wrist. What happens to Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and all the others who were only too happy to vilify the Duke students as lascivious, immoral, privileged white kids? Where’s the call for them to appear on television and radio and apologize long and loud?
Comment by Bob the Cable Guy — 04.12.07 @ 12:50 pm
#101: Hey Tater;
I’m hearing that the attorneys may file lawsuits against Duke U., Durham County and/or the state of North Carolina, and of course Mike Nifong… What say you? Comment by Tate
Sorry no time for lengthy reply, Tate — doing volunteer work for the Azalea Festival here in Wilmington….. great volunteer gig, driving Miss North Carolina to all the appearances and receptions!!
As for predicting what kind of suits may lie ahead, I think I’ll beg off … I’m better at sorting out a case that’s already on my desk than I am in engaging in predictions of what other lawyers may do with cases in the future!!
TaterCon
Comment by TaterCon — 04.12.07 @ 12:58 pm
Wow Tater! You poor thing… having to drive Miss North Carolina around.
Have fun!!
Comment by Tate — 04.12.07 @ 1:17 pm
#140, I would guess blind ambition, hubris, egotism or whatever one wants to call it. We have more lawyers than we need in this country, and they have to get attention somehow, though we need good ones.
Comment by Tom Bosee — 04.12.07 @ 1:20 pm
Anyone know what happened to Kemp? Can’t believe he’s not weighing in on all this.
Comment by Frank — 04.12.07 @ 1:33 pm
Yeah, where’s Mr. Kemp? I’m sure he will have some info on future lawsuits…
Comment by Tate — 04.12.07 @ 1:53 pm
Better yet, where’s Jan? Jan, where are you?
Comment by Tate — 04.12.07 @ 1:54 pm
LaShawn
Haven’t read all the comments, but I would just like to point out an example of a black female writer for ESPN.com who humbled herself totally today in apologizing to the players. Please read (and/or post if you could) this and use it as an example that not all “liberal” black writers are satying silent on this and at least ONE is apologizing to the players.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hill/070412&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1
Comment by Adrian — 04.12.07 @ 2:01 pm
Jemele Hill sounds like an eminently fair-minded and honest individual. Excellent commentary.
Comment by RedBeard — 04.12.07 @ 2:18 pm
I stick by my original statement. These boys were lucky. - angel
If only that is what/all you said….
Tate;
Smiles back atcha….
Comment by jan/jb/ac — 04.12.07 @ 2:26 pm
Huh?
Comment by Angel — 04.12.07 @ 2:42 pm
“I have no desire to pound the flesh from this woman….a figment of your imagination, as I support the decision of the family to “let it go.â€
a figment of your imagination
I should have known! A red flag did go up mentally when I first read it. But so many other people try to discredit their philosophical opponents by raising the spectre of mental illness. Jan can’t be the only one, right?
Perhaps, I was wrong.
Comment by Angel — 04.12.07 @ 2:46 pm
I agree RedBeard… I think Jemele Hill’s commentary showed her integrity and character. It takes a big person to say I’m sorry. Too bad Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are too small-minded to ever consider being so big…
Jan, is that you??? LOL!
Comment by Tate — 04.12.07 @ 2:50 pm
First of all, thank you LaShawn for being one of the few black americans who let it be known that this whole Duke rape case was nothing but a sham.
When I first heard about this mess, I knew it was fishy. It was very hard telling my felllow black co-workers and friends that I just did not buy this rape accusation. I refused to jump on the Jesse and Al bandwagon. They are not my “leaders”.
Since the professional shakedown artists, Jesse and Al are nearly finished unleashing their Civil Rights battle on Don Imus (they are going after CBS to fire him), who provides a ranch to help terminal kids, including black kids who are dying from sickle cell anemia, I wonder how they are explain their actions against the Duke players and spin the decision for the charges to drop.
I guess we will all find out after they travel to the UK to demand Tony Blair to resign for his recent comments on the connection of the recent increase of street crimes to rebellious black youth.
Comment by kim — 04.12.07 @ 3:01 pm
Thanks, Kim.
NOTE TO READERS:
I’m allowing Kim’s comment because her point is very important. But…I don’t want Don Imus discussed in this thread. I plan to cover the topic at a later date. This is a Duke lacrosse case thread.
Comment by La Shawn — 04.12.07 @ 3:06 pm
The Duke case: She is a liar. They were and are innocent, three million dollars later. Justice is the winner. How many of us could or would have held out or have $3 million? They wanted them to plead to a lesser charge many times. Congratulations to them for standing with The Truth.
Losers: Not just the liar, the panderer, but everyone who voted for Nyphong for racial reasons. That is racism. They know who they are. Guilty. This must not happen again. I had a similar although lesser false accusation. The guilty parties know who they are also. Shame on them.
Comment by Chief RZ — 04.12.07 @ 3:27 pm
First of all, thank you LaShawn for being one of the few black americans who let it be known that this whole Duke rape case was nothing but a sham.
Based on discussions I’ve read, I would say that most black Americans had concluded some time ago that her accusation was false.
Comment by Shade — 04.12.07 @ 3:51 pm
Charges dropped. ‘Nuff said….
It’s over. Finally. The Tawana Brawley Duke stripper case against the kids from Duke has officially been squashed by the North Carolina State AG. How much? How much money has this case wasted for the people of North Carolina? How much time has it was….
Trackback by Four Pointer — 04.12.07 @ 4:06 pm
Did she lie or is she delusional?
delusion-a persistent false psychotic belief regarding the self or persons or objects outside the self that is maintained despite indisputable evidence to the contrary (from m-w.com)
Attorney General Roy Cooper said, “Our investigators who talked with her and the attorneys who talked with her over a period of time think that she may actually believe the many different stories that she has been telling. They worked real hard with her. It doesn’t make sense. You can’t piece it together.” (from a NYP column)
Note: “…she may actually believe the many different stories…”
Should she be allowed outside of a mental hospital? Does she still have custody of her children?
Comment by RaLph — 04.12.07 @ 4:16 pm
I agree, RaLph… If she’s that unstable, she should be in a mental hospital (let’s not forget that’s where the police were taking her before she started saying she was raped). Who knows what she’ll do next? I think she’s a menace to society…
Comment by Tate — 04.12.07 @ 4:28 pm
#160 and #161 RaLph and Tate: Thanks for bringing up the problems Crystal obviously has with her mental health.
A while back on one of LaShawn’s blogs on this Duke tragedy, I asked what would become of Crystal’s children.
These kids are innocent. Their mother is probably very sick.
We have too many children who are “outcomes” rather than “centers of adult responsibility.”
As things stand, these children have a very good chance of being malnourished mentally and developmentally by an incompetent parent. Before long, they will become additional challenges for the social welfare system to attempt to reorganize and reorient. Based on current and past performance, that means they are more likely doomed than saved.
It is even likely that they will be taught at home that their lot in life is due to the way white people treat black people. If so, they will see life through that lens and they will suffer a societal alienation that they impose upon themselves.
It makes me so weary that this cycle just keeps repeating itself.
I grieve for these kids. Hopefully, they can be swept up into the arms of a loving, responsible family. I prefer a Christian home with a mom and a dad. I could care less what race they are.
Comment by heliotrope — 04.12.07 @ 5:01 pm
“I have no desire to pound the flesh from this woman….a figment of your imagination, as I support the decision of the family to “let it go….people try to discredit their philosophical opponents by raising the spectre of mental illness†- angel
Tate, Redbeard, Helio and others;
Do you guys think that telling someone that they “imagined” something is akin to “raising the spectre of mental illnessâ€? strike The comment that I made was #121?
Comment by jan/jb/ac — 04.12.07 @ 5:05 pm
I sure hope not! I imagine all sorts of things, but so far I’ve not been certified as mentally ill.
Right now, I imagine myself headed for home.