What causes people to go on murderous rampages? Sexual jealousy, revenge, a lust for terrorizing, psychosis — God only knows the depth of depravity in the human soul.
The murders of 30+ innocents at Virginia Tech (more here) yesterday put the Duke case in perspective, didn’t it? The families of the formerly indicted three still have their sons with them. They are alive, free to get on with their lives, to create and do some good in the world. Neither the families of the murdered people at Virginia Tech nor the victims themselves have that luxury.
I can’t imagine what it’s like to watch the news and wonder if my loved one is among the casualties. My family when through that twice since I moved to D.C. Back in 1998, during my first week of working on Capitol Hill (Senate), a crazed fool named Russell Weston killed two Capitol Hill police officers in the Capitol, closer to the House side than the Senate building I worked in. The news reported that an unidentified woman had also been shot. My poor mother didn’t remember that I was on the Senate side or realize the Senate and House sides are some miles apart.
Then on September 11, 2001, she heard that the Pentagon had been attacked and the rumor that various government buildings were targets. (I was working for the feds.) She couldn’t get through to me because of jammed phone lines, and I couldn’t get through to her. She didn’t have an e-mail account, and I didn’t think to try to e-mail someone she may have known with an account.
I’m stunned about what happened at Virginia Tech. I want to say something profound or moving or helpful, but I just don’t have the words. If you have a first-hand account of what happened or just want to comment on it all, feel free.
Things are developing rapidly now. If you want to keep up, check out bloggers’ coverage at Memeorandum and news stories at Google News.
Addendum: Virginia Tech is a so-called gun-free zone. That is, law-abiding people can’t have guns — only the cops and the criminals, just like the nation’s capital. Are most college campuses gun-free zones, or is this unique to certain schools?
Update: The murderer was a 23-year-old native of South Korea named Cho Seung-Hui. More here.
Update II (4:28 p.m.): Good grief. Over 2,000 visitors have been here so far looking for info on what happened at Virginia Tech. Google loves blogs. Lots of visitors from the UK and Canada, and one from Africa. Make them feel welcome!
Update III (4/18): Special thanks to visitors from around world offering prayers and condolences to the victims at Virginia Tech. If you’d like to talk about gun control, see the latest post, Physical and Intellectual Disarmament.
{ 179 comments }
It’s too early to say what happened with any certainty. Obviously, it’s a horrific incident. A lot of the parents are asking for the VT President and police chief to resign. I’m leaning in that direction myself. What was the reason for not locking down the campus? It’s not like this is the first time there was an on-campus shooting at VT.
As far as the shooter goes, young people are so emotionally fragile sometimes. It’s hard to know what set this particular kid off, if there was only one kid. But they can never see beyond the hurt of the moment. They don’t seem to understand that the pain will fade eventually. I remember so many times when I thought it was the worst time in my life. It always gets better. I don’t know how you make kids see this. As a society, we focus on the physical part of relationships so much, we never spend time talking about the strong emotional component some of which is psychological and some physiological (hormonal release).
In any case, it’s a tragedy all around. It really does make you put everything into perspective, as cliched as that sounds.
It will fade indeed! I think about all the teens who’ve ever committed suicide. No matter how painful or heavy the burden they were facing, it was NOT insurmountable, and they would have gotten over it. Time would have healed the wound, and the pain would have faded. But it’s hard to explain to someone in the midst of pain that, yes, “This too shall pass.”
I’m stunned about what happened at Virginia Tech. I want to say something profound or moving or helpful, but I just don’t have the words.
I don’t either, which is why I gave up on trying to blog about it yesterday. It really is a tragedy and I pray for all the students and their families.
It makes you think, though. How many days do we turn on the news and hear a clip about 20 civilians being killed in an Iraqi marketplace? How many days do we hear about bank robberies, murders, and drug deals? It’s a broken world we live in. I suppose all you can do sometimes is pray.
It saddens me deeply to see what is happening to our young people. I have 3 children, all under the age of 13 and it makes me wonder what kind of world they will be left with. One thing for sure is that this senseless act will be all too soon forgotten and we will have not learned the lessons necessary to prevent it from happening again.
First, I don’t know how the murders at Virginia Tech in any way minimizes what happened to the victims of the Duke witch hunt. Yes, the boys are still alive; no, they may not just “get on with their lives”.
And to all of you who ask why the campus wasn’t locked down, have you any concept of what you’re asking? I live in a suburb of Kansas City that has 25,000 residents, 1,000 less than this campus. Every couple of years, someone gets killed in my city, and I’ve yet to see the Mayor declare marshal law to ensure our safety on those occasions. How do you all suggest the administration and security officials should have sent about locking down a 2600 acre campus with 26,000 students?
Minimizes (which was neither stated nor implied in my post) vs. putting things in perspective. Yeah, I can see how you got confused.
– Admin
I think most campuses have rules forbidding guns and other weapons. There was a huge uproar at Iowa State when I was a grad student when the campus police wanted to carry guns–a very vocal minority of students and faculty insisted that was unsafe, so the proposal was dropped. Lawbreakers armed, law enforcement unarmed…yeah, we’re all safer that way. :\
One of the biggest tragedies of the VT story–and one we’ll never hear from the MSM–is the proposal to allow students with a state concealed-carry permit to carry their weapons on campus was defeated by the state legislature in the name of “safety.” I don’t have a lot of faith that the bleeding heads–and I’m so disgusted that they couldn’t even wait for the families to be notified before starting in on their agenda–are going to learn anything.
There’s so much gun violence in Milwaukee (where guns are banned, of course) I’ve become fairly desensitized, but this story of a professor who blocked the door with his body so his students could escape out the window cut through it all. God bless him and his family.
Poor Boy,
Only 6,000 or so students were on campus yesterday. It’s the last two weeks of the semester. I think it’s reasonable to suggest the authorities could have asked students to remain wherever they were and locked the doors until they had a handle on the situation. I think that’s what folks are saying when they say “lock down”.
Trying to put the travesty that was carried out against the Duke students into any kind of perspective that detracts from the outrage that should be felt is a minimization.
You’re obviously new to my blog and aren’t familiar with my year-long coverage of the Duke case. In no way would I minimize it. I made the observation that dead people don’t have a chance to get on with their lives and that in contrast, the former players do have that chance. By the way, I don’t like “arguing” with people who use phony names, so I’ll pull rank and have the last word on this line of discussion. – Admin
2600 acres, 2600 students, two hours, two murders to investigate, hundreds of buildings to lock up. I just think people are asking a lot.
It just seems like there was no set process to deal with this scenario yesterday. If I were a VT parent, I would be beside myself. When a school accepts your kid, they’re also accepting resposibilty for his or her safety. Is it possible that in the wake of Columbine and 9/11, VT Police had no procedures in place? The press conference with the president and police official didn’t fill me with confidence.
I am praying for the victims and their families.
I was upset upon seeing armored vest wearing, assault rifle toting, police standing around while gunshots were being fired. Didn’t they realize that hundreds of uanarmed civilians were in harms way? It seems to me the situation called for the police to breach the building as quickly as possible, as many ways as possible, with overwhelming force to stop the shooting.
Rather than fault the university for not locking down the campus, I would urge law enforcement to re-visit strategy and training for these situations.
Thank you for this. Too many people want to ramble on about how their political position would’ve helped prevent this. Maybe, who knows? But right now, there are humans dead and families hurting. We need to focus on that.
As a Virginia Tech alumnus, it’s obvious that the media is missing one of the peripheral aspects of this story. The Virginia Tech community is large and spread around the world, but it’s tight-knit. You probably encounter a bit of this by living the DC area, where there’s a large contingent of Hokies. Others aren’t aware that being a Hokie is really a family affair.
I graduated (twice) from Tech. My brother graduated from Tech. Another brother attended before joining the Marines. My cousin graduated from Tech. My grandfather attended Tech. This is common.
Again, thank you. By focusing on the human instead of the political, you allow this to come out.
Poor Boy,
Duke is Duke and VT is VT. Two separate issues. And, frankly, to say they are, at least, alive, doesn’t minimize their suffering. But, VT is off the charts in suffering and grief and outrage right now. Comparing the two doesn’t even make sense.
I used to work for a mutual fund company and we received threats regularly. We ran drills with multiple scenarios, one of which involved a gunman infiltrating the building. The information was disseminated as quickly as possible and office doors were locked until they all clear was sounded. I know the logistics of a large campus with five times as many people as we employed present different challenges, but I didn’t get a sense of even a timely message of warning to the students.
Just a small message from England to say that all our thoughts and sympathy are with the people and families affected by this terrible tragedy. The gun laws in America need to be changed.
We banned hand guns after the 1996 Dunblane massacre where sixteen small children and a teacher were gunned down, and so far thank God there has not been another since.
One madman with a gun should not be allowed to cause such heartache and devastation. Something HAS to be done. Our prayers are with all of you that have been affected by this evil act.
Tony McMahon. Hinckley UK.
Holistic Review: If you’ve got a good sob-story, if you’re dysfunctional, the University doors are thrown open to you.
What better way to prove University-fostered dysfunction, that these Colleges now covet…than to act it out! That’s why you were admitted, you might as well live it through. Start acting like the dysfunctional you were hired to be!
Should we not expect that some of these dysfunctional people, admitted solely on their backgrounds of dysfunction and pathos—-are going to go postal ????
Doesn’t it make sense that if you start admitting losers and crazies under the gimmick of “diversity” and “holistic review”….Virginia Tech is the scenario you end up with.
There was a time when Colleges were admitting students based on how “well-rounded” they were…did you have the ability to succeed in the sometimes high-pressure environment of a University.
I know this sounds terribly passe, but once upon a time students were selected based on their maturity, precisely because it wasn’t the University’s job to heal and babysit. Or, at least they didn’t outright recruit people that needed excessive healing and babysitting.
Diversity and holistic review policies have come home to roost.
My son is a senior at VT, due to graduate next month.
I’m already sick of the second-guessing and finger pointing. Some of the other comments are correct – this is NOT like locking down a middle school; the environment is like that of a small city, and up until recently, a very safe one.
I suppose we’ll see the same old blather about what somebody should have done and should have known. They should apologize or resign. We should have drills and policies. We should outlaw guns.
As far as I’m concerned, the fault lies with the person or persons who did the shooting. The school CANNOT protect my 23 year old son. I rely on God to do that.
One of the things I’m praying for is that the families of the victims don’t let others stir up their anger, which will intensify the grief and could lead to bitterness. And I also pray for the school officials, who are also mourning and have to face the hyenas.
I am on the east coast of canada, although we may seem worlds away, my heart is with the friends, family and the fellow community of virginia tech victims. I am very sorry for your losses, my prayers are with you and your families. I wish that peace may come to you quickly when dealing with this tragedy.
I think it’s pretty difficult to predict when someone is going to do this. Sometimes people who appear to be normal and functional are hiding a lot of anger and pain. I think it’s important to make it easy for people with problems like depression or anger to get counselling to release the pressure before they do something like this.
I can not believe, that every body shows the picture of this crazy guy – like a hommage … i don’t like it
May God be with you all. Sorry to hear this happen.
I’m from a small town on Vancouver Island in Canada. It’s sad to hear this on the news this morning about VT.
The bleating of the gun control freaks reminds me a lot of that from Marxists from failed Communist States.
And uneducated, ignorant people buy into it – as the recent proliferation of Leftist Governments in Latin America (Peru, Venezuela, Ecuador, Bolivia, others).
Their “out”, as with the gun control people with failed policies, is that “Our Marxism (gun control) will be more perfect than the last failed Marxist State (failed Gun Control policy)
ElCee,
I’m sorry for what your son and his friends are going through right now. We’re all bystanders right now. And some of what we have to say may not be right. We could all be wrong. But, what else are we going to do? We can’t go back and tell the kids at Columbine to run and hide. We can’t go back to the World Trade Center and tell them to ignore the loudspeakers and run down those stairs. We can’t go back to VT yesterday and change it.
As a society, this is how we deal with horrendous events. We examine what happened. We second-guess. Sometimes we’re right. Most times, we’re wrong. We owe it to those kids to reason out the best possible response to a situation like this in the future.
I echo number 17’s comment. I have been so upset with all the second guessing by all the reporters, just hours into this horrific event. It seems that if any law enforcement official or public official doesn’t answer questions right away and completely everyone jumps to conclusions and assumes something fishy is going on. Please give everyone space and time to do their jobs!!! I’m sick of people and reporters not giving our law enforcement the benefit of the doubt. This was obviously a very tragic and shocking event and to immediately second guess those who are trying to sort everything out is extremely unfair and undermines the public’s trust in them.
Let’s all take a breath and just pray for the ones who have suffered such a great loss and for those who are trying to figure everything out.
Concerned Student: “Dear God– why do you allow so much violence in the public schools?” –signed, Concerned Student
God: “Dear Concerned Student– I am not allowed in the public schools.” –signed, God
La Shawn; My heart and prayers go out to you folks at VT.
I’ve have not heard one report that the radio media, both campus and local, reported the earlier shooting and warned that the perp. had not been caught. This would have alerted people to stay away from the campus. Folks enroute could not have read email alerts. Was any broadcast ever made of the first incident?
Al C. Bay Shore, NY
“I’m sick of people and reporters not giving our law enforcement the benefit of the doubt.”
It was their decision to hold the press conference yesterday when they were so woefully unprepared. Police and safety officials are not Gods. We trust them to do their jobs. And, when they appear to make mistakes (which was illustrated just recently on another college campus), we have the right to ask questions.
If my daughter went to VT, I would be hoppin’ mad right now.
It sure was a good thing that Timothy McVeigh didn’t have a gun. It is also a good thing that the guy who blew up the Bath, Ohio school didn’t have a gun.
First, my deepest condolences to all involved in such a horrifying tragedy. I want to clear one thing up. When the second shooting started, police did immediatly try to gain entry into the building. In fact they were in the building when the shooting was still going on. They were in the staircase going up to the second floor when the shooting stopped. The police who were outside were there for containment. The police did not just remain outside while this was occuring.
I am truely upset over what has happened at Virginia Tech and my sympathy goes out to all the families affected by this tragedy. Looking back, we can judge and say that the situation was not handled properly, but no one can say how it should have been handled unless they were there at the time. Even with professional crisis training, the campus security could never be prepared for such an event. We can say they “should’ve” and “could’ve”, but hind-sight is always 20-20. The only thing to be done now is use this experience to better prepare other campuses and schools from having such a devastation as this. God bless all those affected. Everyone in the country is mourning your loss.
WE MUST CHANGE OUR GUN LAWS
Quite unlike a high-ranking political figure or a very wealthy movie star, you and I are not protected by armed police or private guards. If responsible, licensed citizens were allowed to carry their personal firearm on school campuses, as they do in other locations, defense would be immediately present if a lunatic shooter would appear. In the best scenario, knowing that there are well trained armed citizens throughout the campus, the shooting would not even occur. Worst case: the perpetrator would be taken down early on to end the shooting spree.
We live in a world of instant gratification where events happen quickly. Instant protection, like politicians and the very wealthy enjoy, can benefit all of us, but only IF a percentage of the public legally carries a lethal weapon.
A Symptom of our “Chain Letter Society”?
Read an analysis of the influences in our “Chain Letter Society” that may be precipitating events like the tragedy at Virginia Tech and how our focus on winning and being number one may be fostering a generation of children with fully inadequate coping skills who have a misguided sense of self-worth…here:
http://www.thoughttheater.com
‘Siyo Friends, Sending Smoke Skyward for Health and Happiness
My condolence to all who know and feel the effects of this act of evil. Evil does walk among us and now we bleed.
In agreement with many of the post especially #17 & 31. Most know that certain political camps will use this act of evil to attack the Second Amendment, just as they’re using the Imus thing to attack the First Amendment.
Life & Liberty
This is a tremendous loss and the efftects are being felt in the hearts of us all around the world. Words can not comfort in this time of grieving, but please know that our thoughts and prayers are with the friends and family of the Virginia Tech victims.
Manitoba, Canada
Very sad what happened at VT. My prayers goes out to the families. However, I a glad the Killer is not a Muslim or black because it would be all blacks and all muslims according to Ms. Barber. That’s my opinion.
I don’t own a gun and have never had a desire to except for a brief time when I was a kid and read Soldier of Fortune Magazine. I do believe people should have to right to defend themselves with guns. But, I can’t really imagine how it would have helped yesterday. This kid killed 30+ people. It seems he was well-trained. I will confess my ignorance about how armed students would have helped minimize yesterday’s tragedy.
Angel writes: @#23 “We owe it to those kids to reason out the best possible response to a situation like this in the future.”
@#1 “A lot of the parents are asking for the VT President and police chief to resign. I’m leaning in that direction myself. ”
@#10 “When a school accepts your kid, they’re also accepting resposibilty for his or her safety.”
@#14 “I used to work for a mutual fund company and we received threats regularly… but I didn’t get a sense of even a timely message of warning to the students.”
When fanatics can infiltrate and attack the Iraqi Parliament within the Green Zone past 6 layers of security, please define the appropriate cost & layers of security for a free society & open campus?
Could certain measures have been improved? Certainly, things like surveilence cameras with object tracking capability, but then we’ll have to deal with the barrage of ACLU lawsuits.
But other measures like metal detectors are an absolute waste of resources.
Exactly why should the President, responsible primarily for operation & quality of education, have to resign? Security is not within his preview. If the board of trustees feel that security ranks a seat at the board, then they need to hire an expert, not saddle the President with yet another hat.
Asking for the Police Chief to resign is premature. Bottomline, cops can incorporate every best practices and still not stop a committed fanatic from killing 1, 10, 100 or even 1 million people. That’s just the way it is.
Short of issuing everyone with a blackberry or better yet embedding a gadget so that students can’t turn off or otherwise disconnect from the net, sending out alerts is only effective when someone gets it. On the flipside, for administrators to overreact on the side of caution is like crying wolf. A couple of false alarms and the people will tune out the real thing.
As for loudspeakers, they are likewise iffy. Go on the PA and tell people that there’s a fire in the theater is bound to get some people trampled. On the otherhand, a fire alarm on campus could have kids running out into the open range of a sniper.
As for locking doors, it might be great to be able to lock doors to prevent an attacker from getting in, however, those same doors could prevent victims from getting out of the same room with the attacker.
In other words, it doesn’t matter what security is in place, someone will study the system and use it to their advantage.
Systems are relatively easy to defeat. What is unpredictable is factoring the odds when citizens have a carry permit and know how to use their weapon. That uncertainty will go a long way to prevent some attacks in the first place and minimizing the carnage in others.
What if instead of heroically blocking the door while students escaped, the prof shot the attacker with his gun?
Bottomline, what we are dealing with is a person consumed with anger, possessed by demon(s), and determined to take as many as possible to hell with him.
The only and best defense is to know where you will be in the hereafter — with Christ or with Satan
That’s the truth that these kids should be getting, but we know how this story will play out: Scapegoats, new anti-gun laws and psycho-babbling idiots — band-aids all — will dominate the debates.
This is not a tragedy, as VA Tech’s Pres. Seger proclaimed, along with many others — this is an atrocity.
Response to atrocity should always be rage.
Learn where and to whom to direct your rage.
The Machine’s rage is directed at those who disallowed law abiding people the RIGHT to carry firearms on that campus.
House Bill 1572 didn’t get through the House Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety.
Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. “I’m sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly’s actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus.”
We now know that the perpetrator of this atrocity was a student residing on the campus and that the “no gun policy” did absolutely nothing to prevent Cho from obtaining and keeping at least two guns on the campus and then using them in the most evil manner.
ONE armed member of Faculty, Staff or even student body could have prevented the loss of life of many at any point in this scenario.
The perpetrator KNEW that unless he encountered another campus regulation breaker, there would be no armed resistance to his reign of terror.
This is not “political”.
This is common sense.
The Machine mourns not only the many losses we grieve about today, The Machine also mourns the death of Common Sense.
LaShawn — have you armed yourself yet?
“I can’t really imagine how it would have helped yesterday. This kid killed 30+ people. It seems he was well-trained. I will confess my ignorance about how armed students would have helped minimize yesterday’s tragedy.”
Comment by Angel — 04.17.07
Permit me to help you out with your imagination and at the same time attempt to educate that ignorance out of you:
Imagine (”Its easy if you try”):
Gunman enters classroom.
Gunman points gun at professor.
Legally armed student responds by drawing their handgun, pointing at head of gunman and issues verbal order to cease and desist.
Gunman either complies with verbal order, or gets shot right then and there.
Death, injury and mayhem ceases at that point.
Do the math and get back to me.
Before you reply here, take the time to check out the following link in which two students who had to run to their cars to retrieve their firearms actually STOPPED a gunman at a campus located about two miles away from VA Tech awhile back.
This is reality, this is empirical, lives were saved.
http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/04/01/13/lang.htm
It is an act of evil that ALL of MSM refused to mention that firearms were used by citizens to protect citizens in this incident. Matter of fact, the presence of one civilian with one handgun was enough to get the perpetrator to DROP his weapon, which led to a physical pile-on instead of a gunfight. Hmm.
Critical Thinking.
Formerly known as, “thinking”.
.
Maybe there are security professionals out there who know whether or not yesterday was handled correctly. As a regular person, something seems off. But, who knows?
Now Bush is coming to tech to tell us how sorry he is… I dont want to belittle the event at all. But.. 33 dead at Tech. 3,309 service men and women dead in iraq, its a little more than 10 times the amount.
Get out of our town, bush. you gave your 3 minute speech already…..
BTW — The Machine legally carried his snub-nosed .38 Special to class as undergrad and grad student, don’t even attempt to go to the illogical meme that young people are not mature enough to understand deadly force. Red Herring, Strawman, Lie. SOME young people may be a problem, and The Machine will tell you that those young people who are likely to be the problem are yet another reason to go about in this world “fully dressed” as we call it.
“If you don’t have a sword, trade your very garment for a sword.”
Jesus said that (gospel of Luke).
The shortsword was the handgun of the day.
“The right to LIFE, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.”
Notice which right came first there.
Far too many Americans have had their right to life abrogated.
Will this atrocity be the final straw?
God knows it should be.
Andy,
So, that’s the security plan? Grab a Bible and pray for the best? Hmmm…that’s not working for me.
The Machine,
Thank you for “educating” me. (I think)
I have to agree with The Machine. I’ve made pretty much the same line of comment elsewhere.
In an anti-gun world, only the wolves and the sheepdogs carry. Unfortunately, the sheepdogs can’t be everywhere at once. So, the sheep are left to be slaughtered when a wolf arrives, unless there is a sheepdog in disguise among the sheep. Would that there had been someone else, a sheepdog, among the faculty and staff in Norris Hall yesterday. How many that are now dead could have been spared?
“Maybe there are security professionals out there who know whether or not yesterday was handled correctly. As a regular person, something seems off. But, who knows?”
Comment by Angel — 04.17.07
The Machine knows.
1) Have you noticed that every police dept. in the country finally sanded the big lie off the sides of their patrol cars?
That old meme, “To Protect and to Serve”.
2) It is not the job of police or security to protect you. This is an impossible task to place upon them. Another person, professional or not, cannot guarantee your absolute safety.
The good news is that everybody does not have to study the art and science of proper self defence in a society that allows for those who will.
The mere knowledge that there are good men like The Machine and his friends and relatives among us is a proven deterrent.
So our politicians have done everything in their power to make US the perceived problem.
EVERY firearms law passed since 1968 has been aimed at the peaceful law-abiding citizen and NOT at those who would do others harm.
The sheep bleat loudly, complaining about the sheepdog and not the wolves.
Have to make a comment about the lockdown as well…
I understand its a lot of work to lockdown the campus. But why, why, why, not even let students KNOW that two people were shot for two hours? Maybe if they sent out an email saying not to panic, and not fully lock down but let students think for themselves “hmmm, lets not go outside, and stay in our dorm room and stay away from windows”.
My mother taught me “It’s better to be safe than sorry.” Well, i bet they feel sorry now.
#41
This is not the place to bring up Iraq. Please have some respect for those that did not chose to be in the middle of a shooting gallery on what should have been a normal Monday morning on a college campus.
Angel, if you’re a Christian, YES. There is evil in this world and the Bible is a roadmap for navigating the perils thereof. It’s worked for plenty of others.
I’ll be waiting for your response to my other security points.
George Sturges just flunked Critical Thinking.
#45
Initially, they thought it was likely a murder-suicide (at least that’s what I’m hearing today). In that situation, there would be no further threat.
I am really sorry to everyone who has lost loved one’s or has witnessed such evil. Me and my family’s thoughts are with you all.
Ryan – United Kingdom
And, if you’re not….?
one of my comments didn’t show up…
Reconstructed:
I have to agree with The Machine. In an anti-gun environment, it’s only the law-abiding citizens who follow the rules.
The wolves and the sheepdogs are the only ones carrying, and the sheepdogs can’t be everywhere at once. That leaves the sheep open to being slaughtered on the whim of a wolf, unless there is a sheepdog disguised among the sheep.
If one person yesterday had been armed, how many, who are dead today, could have been spared?
That’s it, Sheeple, blame the police, blame the decision makers, blame anybody BUT the sorry excuses for humanity that continue to try to prevent law abiding citizens from being able to protect themselves should the need arise.
March of Folly.
Miss Ladybug,
Even so, what would be wrong with telling the students be a little extra cautious? No more harmful than telling someone to take their slicker along on a cloudy day.
Miss Ladybug, I can assure you that had The Machine been present there would have been a small news story on page two.
Tony(#15), you are living with the same false sense of security as those at VT had if you think the UK ban on handguns will really prevent anything. All that gun control accomplishes is to ensure that the *victims* are unarmed and defenseless, The *perpetrators* will always have weapons, because, well, they’re *criminals* darn it – by definition they don’t mind breaking the law! Handguns were extremely tightly regulated in the UK even before Dunblane, and that fact had no effect whatever in preventing that tragedy. Bottom line: Gun controls only keep weapons away from the people that you most want to have one when they fall into the hands of the bad guys. Israel arms their teachers – we ensure ours are helpless. Which is wiser? Arming the teachers, of course.
The real problem is that we have now serial generations of children that are taught, and believe, that all truth is relative and there is no objective standard for good and evil. You can’t get within a mile of that idea in schools today without being accused of “teaching religion”, which has become verboten only within my lifetime.
No laws, no gun controls, no restrictions on handguns, ammo, magazine capacity, “evil features”, or anything else can effectively counteract a sinful heart that falls for the oldest lie in the Book: “I can be like God, deciding for myself what is good and what is evil.” On the other hand, if even a handful of students or profs at VT had had a pistol nearby, then there might be dozens fewer funerals in the coming week. Sadly, instead, they were illegally denied their right of self-defense, and they paid with their lives.
“Even so, what would be wrong with telling the students be a little extra cautious? No more harmful than telling someone to take their slicker along on a cloudy day.”
Comment by Angel — 04.17.07
Please explain how “telling the students to be a little extra cautious” would have prevented what happened yesterday.
Please define “a little extra cautious” in such circumstances.
You must stop being wishful and start being pragmatic here.
Angel~
If you heard about a murder suicide, what would make you feel the need to be more cautious, if the shooter has already killed himself?
so much finger-pointing. When one goes out, three point straight back and stir up bitterness within. Cho has sent himself to a quick and final judgement. Let us prepare for God’s penetrating examination of our own hearts. By the words we choose to judge others we will also be judged. The exclusion of this ingredient is the reduction in our healing.
Im so sorry about what happened i hope god takes care of our lost ones!
The psychologist would call it “denial”, Ladybug.
Lot of that going around these days, same as the leadup to WWII actually, old Sam Clemens had it right when he said that history does not really repeat itself but it often rhymes.
“The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.”
The Machine is a Christian and does not believe that men and women were created to do the same jobs, nor should they be trying to trade places.
“The Deceiver” — that’s the translation from Hebrew, which is the name given to the devil more than any other in the scriptures.
It is written that if we perform the first depraved act that God will open us up to all sorts of depravity and we will not even know that we are doing them.
The Machine knows that the first depraved act consists of declaring that there is no God.
Pray for our nation.
“Cho has sent himself to a quick and final judgement.”
Comment by Nig — 04.17.07
Now THERE’S an absurd statement.
Cho had the means to actually do that, but did not.
You seem to bypass 32 dead and 28 wounded to get there.
Critical Thinking score: -10
Angel writes, “And, if you’re not….?”
Jesus is plainspoken on that fact: “No one comes to the Father, except by Me”
If you don’t believe that, then what more can I say?
If you follow Bhuddha, then you can only hope that you reach nirvana by being and doing good.
If you follow Mohammed, then you can only hope for paradise with 72 virgins by being killed by infidels.
Anytime you’re ready to transition from theology back to the real world, I’ll be waiting for your responses.
Considering that the student was an English major and that his writings were so disturbing that he was referred to shrinks.
Hmmm, there’s the warning signs that he was likely to go postal. Not to mention possessed by evil.
Is it any wonder when our kids are fed so much garbage: casual safe sex (oxymoronic in the least), gore in films, Gore on climate, misogynistic lyrics et al.
Seeing the faces of the victims it drove the pain home as one of the young men looked like my son. My prayers are with all those who have lost someone dear to them. Details are not clear but this young man who did this must have been in the black hole of depression and who knows why he wasnt able to rationalise his feelings. This will happen again and again and we must try to spot the ones who will go overboard so to speak. There is often evidence that they are going through severe stress or mental issues before the ensuing tragedy. Mass Homicide like this is usually a terrible and dramatic form of suicide.
My Prayers go out to the families and friends of the victims. I cant imagine the pain they all must be going through.
By reading these post I think I have to say..
The only revision of gun laws there needs to be is to let the good guy have a gun as well as the law and the bad guy. The law can not protect us at all times(practically never, since they are mostly called after the fact)Everyone should have the right to protect their self.
As far as the “Lockdown Issue”..
Simply not excusable at the very least to inform the campus in any means they could find that the shooter had not been captured. There is No reason whatsoever to justify them not going to the ends of the earth to make sure the students knew about the situation. We will never know but In my opinion, this move alone would have saved many lives. Say what you will about the size of the campus and the means to notify everyone on it. It does not excuse the lack of effort from the School and Law enforcement on this issue.
Hey, according the Asian American Journalists Association (AAJA), we aren’t supposed to take any notice of the shooters Asian ancestry.
Short of obscuring and putting a bag over the shooter’s face, how are we supposed to pretend like we don’t notice he’s “Asian-American” ???
I can only imagine the apoplexy of the AAJA if someone dared called the shooter “Oriental”—which they consider the equivalent of the N-word.
Just a little friendly etiquette advice from the very helpful AAJA. Now back to our grieving.
La Shawn, I used to call my husband paranoid when he lawfully carried his .45 to classes at our local community college. He explained that school shootings happened in colleges too, and it was his responsibility as a CCW holder to protect himself and his classmates if anything ever occured. I used to think he was paranoid…I don’t now.
Let’s spend more of the taxpayer’s money to kick the ROTC off campus….
Glamchild #69
That makes no sense in the context of this thread. What has ROTC got to do with the shooting at VT?
Im sorry “The Machine”, i wish i could use your real name, but well.. how did i fail critical thinking?
Get of your high and mighty horse mr.anonymous….
Miss Ladybug,
So, they should have said nothing?
and wow, having read all of your posts, mr anonymous, all i can say is “wow”.
i can explain this to you in detail if you need.
“Please explain how “telling the students to be a little extra cautious†would have prevented what happened yesterday.”?
Well, if they knew someone was shooting people on campus, and they didnt have a gun (because they also have a right to not carry a gun) they might not have gone to class. Less targets. Get it?
I dont think it can be more simple than that.
And you didnt comment on my “safe than sorry”.
I agree law-abiding citizens should be able to carry gun (like to school). Thats another part of being safe. So how did i fail?
Andy,
I’ve been waiting in the real world for a while now…At least, you’re open to the possibility of other faiths.
I don’t want to stray off-track either.
My family would like to offer our condolences to the students, faculty, administration and families of Virginia Tech for the horrible events of yesterday. Our thoughts and prayers are with you.
The Miller Family
Sykesville, Maryland
But Angel wants to know why the Machine refers to himself(?) in the third person? Is the Machine really Bob Dole?
Ladybug:
ROTC = law and order…
…something that seems in very short supply, these days, especially at Virginia Tech.
It is my understanding that they did send out emails informing students of the first “incident”, which student only received (if they checked their email) shortly before the shooting began in Norris Hall. At this point, I’m not prepared to second-guess the decisions authorities on campus made after the first shooting of the two people in the dormitory. I’m willing to wait until all the facts are able to come out.
I recall what my dorm was like when I was an undergrad. Because of a large endowment given to the University, there could be no co-ed dorms on campus. In the women’s Freshman dorm, any female could come and go at any hour in the building, and likewise for all the other women’s dorms on campus, and similarly, any male could come and go from any men’s dorm without checking in with anyone. However, if a male wanted to visit in a women’s dorm (and vice versa), the opposite sex person was *SUPPOSED* to be signed in at the front desk, and was required to leave the dorm by a specific time. However, there were ways to get around this. This was long before keycard access to dorms – it’s coming up on 20 years – in the Freshman dorm, we could exit from the first floor stairwell emergency exit doors. Sometimes, someone would sneak in visitors without signing them in.
Classroom buidings were a different matter. During normal class & office hours, anyone could come and go from the buildings. And, it isn’t any different today at the University where I just earned my M.Ed.
Getting the word out to all students in a timely matter is impossible. I don’t think, therefore, that they shouldn’t try. I’m just saying it is exceedingly difficult. Let’s just hold off on the fingerpointing until all the facts become known.
Or, is the Machine really Hulk Hogan?
Ah – I see now, Glamchild. Makes sense, and I agree there’s not enough of that.
Sorry. Had to ask.
Reading some of these comments really scares me. Basically this guy was mentally unstable but the bottom line is if he hadn’t access to guns then the massacre WOUNDN’T have happened. All this nonsense about arming security guards, allowing students or teachers firearms, etc. is missing the central point. Gun control is the simple answer. In 2005 just over 10,000 people were killed in gun-related violence in the USA – poulation 300 million – (this doesn’t include the 17,000 people who committed suicide using firearms). In the same year in the U.K., 50 people were killed in gun-related violence – poulation 60 million – 40 TIMES AS MANY PEOPLE PER HEAD OF THE POPULATION KILLED BY FIREARMS in the USA compared to the UK! And please don’t insult my intelligence and quote me the Second Amendment to the Constitution. For god’s sake it was passed in 1789 – 216 years ago when guns were a very necessary part of every day life. We are now living in the 21st Century and until the good old US of A makes some very tough decisions as regards guns then you may prepare yourselves for the next massacre, when some lunatic with a chip on his shoulder decides to kill himself and as many innocent fellow human beings as he can.
P.S. I know what I’m talking about. I live in Northern Ireland and since the IRA decommissioned its’ weapons, gun related deaths in this country are now practically non-existent.
“Let’s just hold off on the fingerpointing until all the facts become known.”
So, we stop talking about this for a couple of weeks? Okay…Ciao, y’all.
Angel~
I think there is a difference between “fingerpointing” and “discussing”. At this point, the first is not productive. The second can be very helpful. We are hardly beyond 29 hours after this occurred, and many facts are still being discovered. As each new fact becomes known, that will improve the discussion. We know much more now than we did at this same time yesterday, more now than when most of us went to bed last night. But those who are calling for the President and Police Chief to be fired, at this point, falls into the “fingerpointing” category, and is currently, IMO, premature.
Angel @#75: “I’ve been waiting in the real world for a while now…At least, you’re open to the possibility of other faiths.”
Huh?? Real World: You’ve been yammering about how if you had been a VT parent, you’d be hopping mad, based on the “performance” of Steger & Police Chief. And that perhaps they should be fired. They had no choice but to go out and give the press conference regardless of their level of confidence in what they knew so far.
Even if they didn’t know certain facts yet, the fact that it came from the horse’s mouth was an attempt to tamp down the madly spinning vortex that is the 24/7 media. Just because we have technology to enable us to be “on” all the time does not in any way impute the quality.
One reporter yesterday afternoon, before the press conference was confidently relaying her sources that it was a Chinese student who arrived in the US on Aug 2006 from Shanghai. Well now we know it’s actually a Korean student. This is just an example of the wild speculations in abscense of concrete facts.
We The People can’t wait for time to take it’s course and demand instant gratification. You’re just as guilty.
Better that you had said, “I’d rather give the benefit of doubt until all the facts are in” than to have written “A lot of the parents are asking for the VT President and police chief to resign. I’m leaning in that direction myself.”
Really? Where are these “lot of parents”? Maybe it’s actually a meme stirred up by the MSM/Talking Heads fog machine, in much the same way that Imus was spun into oblivion.
As for open to other faiths… Just because other faiths exists doesn’t mean they are equally valid. Even Jesus confronted and “dissed” the false gods of people that he encountered. So don’t even try to use the liberal WWJD angle.
Likewise, just because some believe that angels are higher beings, worthy of awe, emulation and worship doesn’t mean it’s true. In some religions, angels don’t even exist. How’s that for being open to the possibility of other faiths?
In the One true faith as established by God the Creator and the God of Israel (ie Judeo-Christian God), angels are lesser beings & subservient to Man! That’s reality.
Interesting that you chose to summarize and dismiss my original comment as grabbing a Bible and praying while ignoring the realities of “security plans”. Nothing like picking off a couple of low-hanging fruit and calling it a hard day’s work, eh?
As an outsider looking in … I watched the convocation live on TV here in Africa and can see the love and compassion God has expressed through the many sincere words offered.
My heart also shares the sincere desire for comfort and healing to all those who mourn.
From another world that knows suffering on massive scale, we watch and pray with you.
in response to Mr Machine …
-10 score for critical thinking but it depends upon your frame of reference. Mine is a faith in the only wise God and His Word, who alone has authority to judge the living and the dead and before whom none shall escape.
When a school accepts your kid, they’re also accepting resposibilty for his or her safety.
Since when? last time I looked, the average college student was 18+, considered an adult, thus the responsiblity for his/her saftey lines in the student’s hands.
I work at a public university, and I can tell you without a doubt that I would be fired on the spot (and probably arrested) if I brought a firearm onto campus. Even if it had a trigger lock, nestled inside of a locked gun vault, inside the locked trunk of my car.
We have just watched here in the UK the memorial service held at VT. We were impressed with the strength and defiance shown by the students following Nikki Giovannis ‘rallying’ call, ‘We shall prevail, we shall prevail’.
From across the ocean the student community of Lincoln University UK send their love, compassion and prayers. We stand beside you in spirit.
Dee UK (student)
I don’t think sophisticated technology is required to help prevent these events of senseless violence. A siren will suffice, and a standardized process and procedure to follow upon hearing the siren.
It was a bad call on the part of the college not to initiate a security plan at first response to the initial shootings.
Also: shopping malls have learned a thing or two about security. All of the entrances and exits are electronic and can be locked simultaneously in the event of a kidnapped child, etc. No one comes in and no one leaves. With many colleges and universities charging up to $45K a year, I think this retrofit is most do-able.
We need to get smarter about handing these unfortunate situations because these “lost souls” who believe that violence is the answer seem to be increasing in number.
My sympathies to the families and loved ones of the victims and the shooter.
Joseph McMahon, then you should know full well that the genesis of gun control laws is racism/classism.
For America, it was to prevent the Blacks from defending themselves from KKK or otherwise keep the blacks, Hispanics and the Orientals in their place:
http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/cramer.racism.html
In England, it was to keep the Irish, riff-raff and anyone else without peerage in their places as well.
Beware the elites bearing visions of utopia by making laws.
As for the rates of deaths, this is a unfortunate result of the distortion that gun control laws have inflicted upon the law-abiding citizen. For England, the scarcity of guns and in the US, the abundance. Both scenarios ignore what happens when everyone is armed as part of good citizenship.
Thankfully, the tide seems to be turning and car-jackings or home-invasion will be an artifact of history as laws mandating citizens maintain a weapon in their home gain popularity. Several communities in Georgia are leading the way in this area.
Another way to cut down on gun crimes is to run the illegals out of town as the new, toughest anti-illegal in the land, law about to be passed in Oklahoma.
One side benefit of pro-weapon laws is that the eco-freaks & leftist radicals will have to think twice before trashing another’s private property in order to make a “political” speech, lest the round of buckshot that defends Liberty & Pursuit of Happiness (in this case Peace) talks back.
Nig~
But if one has the power to stop the killing of innocents, doesn’t God place on us an obligation to try and stop it? I can think of many examples where the Good killing the Bad saved many more in the long run than the Good killed in the process. Biggest example is WWII, ending the Holocaust. If one person had been properly armed yesterday, and killed the ONE shooter, how many more of those now dead would still be with us?
When someone can convince me that gun control will remove guns from the hands of thugs, I’ll revisit the issue. Until then, it is a completely asinine suggestion.
There are some reports saying that the shooter had a tattoo that said, “Ismael Ax.” Hmmmmm.
I would firstly like to send my thoughts, prayers and sympathys to all those affected by the horrific events of yesterdays massacre. I don’t think there is anything anyone can say to make things more barable for all those affected, but i just wanted you to know that we are thinking of you through this horrible time.
Secondly, having read all the comments, i find it scary how so many people think that this situation could have been prevented somehow, by giving every man and his dog a gun – this doesn’t make sense. If there were no guns, there would be no shootings, its as simple as that. Giving everyone a gun would only INCREASE the chances of this sort of tragedy happening again. Stop manufacturing guns and amunition, and within 12 months, i’m sure there would be a massive decline in gun crime in the USA, therefore avoiding this sad waste of so many lives.
Amanda, Cambs, UK
Amanda,
I have to agree with you. I don’t understand Americans and this gun issue. I don’t know how many of their children have to die before they understand. However, I will say that it doesn’t just stop with the gun issue; the country needs to address its violent culture.
My prayers and deepest sympathy is with the entire school on this most awful day. I cannot even imagine any of your pain. You all must look for help in one another. You should lean on the love and understanding of your family and friends who love and care for each one of you. I will keep you all in my daily prayers. May Jesus and the Holy Family smile always upon your school and on the souls of those who were taken so tragically. Please accept my deepest sorrow. Suzanne Composto
#75 “Andy, I’ve been waiting in the real world for quite awhile now…At least you’re open to the possibility of other faiths.”
Angel,
I believe what Andy meant was (and Andy, do correct me if I am wrong) that Buddhists and Muslims can only HOPE in salvation based upon their works whereas the christian has the assurance of salvation based upon the finished work of Christ on the cross. Yes, there may be many religions, but God provided only one way, through Jesus. With that said, I would like to make an observation. Many people will scream for more gun control, but really, folks, how long have we had the right to bear arms and when did tradgedies like these start occuring? The right to bear arms? Oh, since the constitution. And these kinds of senseless, horrific killings? Probably really began about 40 to 45 years ago. So, my question is “what took place 40 to 45 years ago” that may have some bearing on this issue? Hmmm…let’s see…prayer taken out of schools, ten commandments(God’s holy law) taken out of public buildings, Roe vs. Wade (if life can be snuffed out just like that then why should we consider life to be sacred), teaching of evolution(yes, I know, this began far more than 45 years ago)which says that we just happened by accident and have no creator and thus, no true purpose, the breakdown of the family, drugs, free love, the feminist movement, Need I say more? Now, I’m sure there will be some who say it’s a foolish theory, however, I will let them argue with Scripture. The Bible, God’s word, says in Jeremiah 17:9 that “the human heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked:who can know it?” Jesus Himself said that there is no one good, but God(Mark 10:18). All of us, no matter what religion, race, sex, national origin, all of us are sinners with a heart diseased by sin. Not all of us will take up arms and go on a massive killing spree, but the seeds are there just the same. Jesus even said that in the latter days, or end times that we would be seeing more and more of these kinds of things “This know also, that in the last days perilous(original Greek word used for perilous meant SAVAGE)times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, profane, WITHOUT NATURAL AFFECTION, implacable, slanderers, of unsubdued passions, SAVAGE, despisers of what is good, traitors, heady, vain, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God…” (2 Timothy 3:1-4). Sounds like we’re well into the last days. May God bring comfort and peace to the families of the victims.
Libbygirl
Amanda, I hear violent crime is taking a dramatic upswing in the UK, directly correlated to Muslim immigration. What are you doing to address that issue?
“If there were no guns, there would be no shootings, its as simple as that.”
See, sweetie, the thing is, it’s actually not that simple. Because THERE ARE GUNS, already, so the first part of your premise is a complete fallacy, rendering the whole thing, well, kind of illogical. There is no way to retrieve all the guns that are out there. Most of the law abiding citizens would turn theirs in, if the government mandated that, while all the criminals would hang onto theirs and furthermore, such a gun control law would guarantee a very lucrative black market for weapons would spring up overnight (if not sooner).
Please, snap out of the magical thinking! Real problems require real solutions.
Amanda & Paige from UK~
My immediate family has never owned guns. However, I have uncles and cousins and a likely future brother-in-law who do (or have). When you have gun control policies in place, that does NOT prevent someone with ill intent from using a gun. They are criminals, so breaking a rule or policy means nothing to them. However, when law-abiding citizens have gone through the process to be licensed to carry a concealed weapon, that can go a long way to PREVENTING gun violence. If a criminal doesn’t know who might be packing, they might be a lot less likely to pull a gun on someone. In the US, just about anyone can LEGALLY own a gun, but you have to have a license to carry it concealed, and not everyone (although each state that allows it has its own process/requirements) can get a one. A criminal, if they want a gun, will find a way to get one.
Some segments of American society glory the use of guns. However, this cannot be applied to the majority of Americans. I understand the great responsibility that would come with own and carrying a firearm. Currently, I’m not equipped to deal with those responsibilities. I wouldn’t teach anyone that guns are bad. I would teach that guns are tools that need the proper training in order to be effective, and one should have a healthy respect for guns. But, guns don’t kill people – people kill people.
And, you don’t hear news reports of when a legally armed private citizen HAS been able to stop further bloodshed. That doesn’t fit in with certain groups’ anti-gun agenda.
What happened at Tech does not need a lot of study and review. The EMT’s were phenominal. The hospitals were beyond spectacular. The Tech community came together like glue. Law enforcement was terrific. Local, state and federal agencies worked hand in glove and side by side.
The critics with too much time on their hands and too little information to confuse themselves with the facts want some heads to roll. The media has gone into shout and carp mode and are busy interviewing pizza delivery drivers. Soon we will have theme music and logos for the “Tragedy at Tech.”
What happened is one terrible fluke that could not have been prevented except for a lucky break. Tech and almost every open campus in the US has never faced anything that remotely parallels this horrific event. If everyone had guns or if it was terrifically difficult to get guns, this would still have happened in some form or other. The evil will was there and it found its evil way.
Please pray for the greater Tech community and if you must ruminate on how you would have handled the situtation in the rainbows of your perfect world and self, kindly take your thoughts and bury them in a deep, dark place.
Dear Lord, help us heal. Amen.
The Virginia Tech tragedy brings to mind a similar school shooting in 1979 California. 16 year old Brenda Spencer wounded nine and killed two in a shooting spree at an elementary school. She said, “I had no reason for it, and it was just a lot of fun,” “It was just like shooting ducks in a pond,” and “(The children) looked like a herd of cows standing around, it was really easy pickings.”
I Don’t Like Mondays Either, But …
When you lose a loved one, there is no immediate comfort. These families will go through emotions for a long time that can’t be described unless you’ve been through it. It’s an ache in your heart that grips your soul. Losing a child must be the worst.
There will always be the would haves could haves but they won’t bring the victims back. Right now all we can offer are prayers and support.
It appears that the son of award winning author, Michael Bishop, was killed in the attack. The whole thing is really sad. I wish that someone could have gotten to this guy before he killed himself and beat the life out of him.
I am disgusted by the reality of how easy it is to own a gun in the US, or anywhere for that matter. What good is a gun to protect you, when your neighbor has the exact same means of protection. You can’t fight fire with fire. I think it’s time to wake up our nation and re-evaluate what will make a better world. It might just be me, but I do not believe a better world includes civilians walking around with guns…
Just a reminder…the signs are always there. Please, tell someone.
The victims of the VT Massacre, and their families are in my heart and prayers.
Already we’re seeing repercussions from this tragedy… TX, OK, and TN University’s were on lockdown (today I think) for bomb threats… I’m very concerned that now we’re going to have more shooting’s on college campuses… I truly hope I’m wrong…
Batyah and Miss Ladybug
I know there are guns already, hence why this type of attrocity can happen today. But we’re not living in the wild west – this is 2007! This kind of thing is becoming more and more regulaur, to the point where surprise doesn’t seem to come into peoples initial reaction upon hearing of these violent crimes – is that not worrying to anyone????!!
Surely you can see that the amount of gun crime in the USA is just spiralling out of control, and proactive steps need to be taken to start changing things, so people don’t have to live in fear anymore.
And Batyah why are you getting defensive?? I’m not suggesting that all Americans are violent criminals. I just think its time to stop and take a good look at the way things are at the moment. After all, if this horrible mess won’t change anything, i can’t see what will…
A HEART FOUND MESSAGE FROM THE “UNITED KINGDOM”
Words cannot explain what you are all thinking and feeling, and my heart goes out to EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU! Your president needs to change your law. This cannot continue, and you cannot keep being put in the line of fire. I am deeply sorry to hear for your loss..
Stay strong guys, it will be very hard and painfull, but if you all pull together and lean on one another, you WILL pull through in this time of need..
Speaking on behalf of your allies…
x
In Australia we had an amnesty of automatic firearms about 5 years ago..not handguns. Our prime minister said yesterday…we would hope that an incident like VT wouldn`t happen here.
Having not been to the U.S….and lived in a society without guns so readily available…
Why is there such a need in this day and age…to feed off…a right to bare arms in U.S.
The notion lends itself to…
Anyone feeling unhappy or disturbed..can go right ahead and take up that right…and turn it into what ever else they believe is also their right.
I would suggest the U.S culture assess it`s values.
There is no doubt in my mind…this will happen again. Instead of a right..there is now a need to give up arms.
And now the nuts start coming out of the woodwork…
Threats Rattle Schools in 7 States
http://www.wral.com/news/national_world/national/story/1277752/
I just wanted to let all of you at VA Tech know my prayers and thoughts are with you. You all showed bravery in the midst of chaos and tragedy yesterday. I hope you survivors consider some type of counseling, but I know from past experience sometimes the best therapy is talking it out with someone who’s been thru it themselves.
Tech is a great school, with great educators and even better students. You all proved that yesterday. You guys and gals stay strong.
To all the people who think Tech officials and police officials didn’t do it quite right yesterday – hindsight is 20/20, in my opinion. The college is located in a relatively low crime area compared to other universities. I don’t think anyone could have possibly forseen this insanity.
Also, the campus has a normal population the size of a small city. How does one notify an entire city of impending danger normally? I really don’t mean to sound sarcastic, but other than a huge siren how could you notify everyone?
In the united kingdom guns have been “banned” across the board. You cannot own or buy a hand gun legally
Yet gun crimes have not declined since the ban.
If anything they have increased.
So beware about believeing that banning guns would solve this type of problem.
I would like to point out that there was a suggestion that the lads who were responsible for “Columbine” and a previous school shooting were on medication. One website said they used zolof..(I think thats the spelling).
Your perpetrator had a dark mind, we are told by the press.
Maybe it’s worth a look there.
But someone must find the truth about why kids do these insanely violent acts.
My deepest regrets to all the friends and family of the victims.
It is very sad that this happened. My heart goes out to everyone that is touched by this. I hope that one day the pain fades. What bothers me the most now is reading and hearing everyone using these deaths to support their own believes. Do you not see that this was done by a sick person? He could have used a match and a can of gas. It does not matter how he did it. It is not a time to promote what you feel about guns or politics. Its time to open our hearts to VT.
I pray for all the lost souls and for the injured and their familes. What a horrible loss to all families and our country. When will we take assault weapons off the market, and make it more difficult for anyone to purchase such instruments of death and rampage.
May God Rest Their Souls and healing to all the injured and survivors.
Dub
I know there is no easy answer to this. After Dunblane all handguns in the U.K. were banned. That has not stopped gun crime, but it has reduced it. Strangely enough when the police were given arms with the threat of increased gun crime, the weapons in the hands of criminals increased. What came first? Who knows, but it does seem that having weapons available to anyone without proper controls does increase the danger.
The problem with the American constitution seems to be that when it was drafted it was meant to arm local militia with muskets to protect citizens. NOT to allow some deranged individual to arm himself or herself with the latest hightech automatic killing machine and allow these weapons to be sold with no checks whatsoever from gun fairs or clubs.
You will never be able to take the guns away from people in America, but what you might be able to do with education, and a love of life, is to take the killer away from the gun. I don’t know how this can be accomplished, but I pray to God it can.
My prayers for everyone at VT. Tony McMahon Hinckley U.K.
“As long as enough gun nuts (even the day after such a massacre, probably still legion in the state of Virginia) conflate “freedoms†with “keeping the barrel pointed in a safe direction at all times,†I daresay high-powered machine guns will be readily available for use in psychotic mass killings which can be made worse because of the power of the weaponry.“
Chuck @115, I agree. There are other ways this person could have harmed massive amounts of students… For all we know, he was seriously considering “bombing” a building… Let’s wait to hear all the facts, and then determine if things should have or could have been done differently; if anything…
If just one student or faculty member had been carrying a gun (for protection). This would have been a shoot out instead of a massacre.
I couldn’t believe that an alone gunman killed 32 poor students. I never heard such like this. To the families I’m very very sorry. By the way, I’m from Ireland and I visited your beautiful state of Virginia some years ago, not far from Blackburg. God bless America.
Thomas J Carroll, Ireland.
I can not imagine going through horror those poor people went through. the media is picking the vt police apart but put anybody in that position and what they do. they saw and heard things that most people will never see. when these officers close there eyes at night what do you think they see, cut them some slack there human too.
If we change the law only criminals have guns.
If we don’t change the law everyone will have a gun.
If we abolish guns, criminals will still have guns.
Law abiding people are at risk either way.
If laws prohibited everyone from carrying guns, criminals will take over our society.
Apparently the incident at VT is the result of my last statement. He knew no one else had a gun which allowed him to roam freely and shoot at will.
I would like to send out my deepest sympathies to everyone affected by this senseless tragedy.
Unfortunately, I truely believe this will happen again.
An absolute horror. It did not have to happen.
32 innocent (and disarmed) people killed by a gun-wielding maniac. In the name of gun control not one was allowed a chance to fight back.
Once again the utter futility – not to mention danger – of gun control laws has been revealed. Gun control advocates should have a lot of soul-searching to do after yesterday’s tragedy.
I am sure that the killer did not spend his life as a criminal. I’m guessing that he most likely has not killed before. The scary thing here is that guns are so easily aquired. Whenever some person somewhere in American society “snaps” all he has to do is go to the local “Walmart” and get himself some firepower.
Sure, maybe someone else “packing” might have done the guy in first. Maybe he only would have killed 20 people, or 10, or 2. The fact remains that people are being killed……period.
CNN reported last night that there are over 250,000 9mm handguns registered in the US. They also reported that this is the favoured weapon of choice in the vast majority of gun related crimes in the US. Why do they continue to manufacture these weapons . They are useless for any other reason than to KILL PEOPLE.
I don’t entirely agree with total “Gun Control” legislation, but I really do not understand the point behind normal citizens wearing concealed weapons. Whom among us has the ability to forsee which gun packing individual is going to lose it next?
Imagine a world with the constitutional right to nuclear weapons. You would have America on a global level. Scares the hell out of me and it should scare the hell out of everyone.
To all of you that have lost friends and loved ones and to all of us that are affected by this terrible act, may God be with us all.
While I try to be welcoming to foreign visitors, I won’t allow any to bad-mouth American soldiers on my blog. Take it somewhere else. – Admin
Chuck (1150) I think you are right. It doesn’t matter that he used a gun.If he had no gun I believe he would have used some other means as this appears to have been premeditated. To look for answers about how to stop this from happening again is probably a futile exercise. There are as many answers as there are murderers.
La Shawn,
I cannot believe this has happened again. I had only dried my tears for the Amish School last year. How many more beautiful, intelligent youngsters have to die before ALL STATES decide to BAN FIREARMS FOREVER?
Dennis
Dennis,
I couldn’t agree more, it would be very hard for anyone with any degree of compassion to not shed tears.
Thank God that rocket launchers, tanks, attack helicopters, land mines, etc., are not available
to the general public.
Or maybe they should be, after all, are they not considered to be arms?
My deepest prayers and thoughts go out to all of the family’s who had loved ones hurt in the Virgina tech rampage. I do not know one person that goes to school there and i still cry every time i see this story on the news. I do not understand why anyone would do anything like this, what do you get from it. The intelligent students the go to this school, i pray for you to. i think that proper actions where taken for this and that no one should be criticized for there actions. i thank all of the first responders and all those who pray for the family’s i pray with you. Anyone who would like to talk to me or anything e-mail me at jenkins.everett@gmail.com
“Im sorry “The Machineâ€, i wish i could use your real name, but well.. how did i fail critical thinking?
Get of your high and mighty horse mr.anonymous….”
Comment by George Sturges — 04.17.07
You once again fail the subject at hand.
Because if you want me off of this horse, you will have to physically knock me off of it.
The Machine is indeed a Knight of the Garter.
Joust, boy.
.
It’s Columbine all over again. The kid who did this was reported to be a loner. I imagine that, like the Columbine killers, this guy must have felt alienated and alone with no one to turn to.
Speaking from personal experience, I know what that’s like. Of course, the thought of committing mass murder never entered my mind, feelings of hopelessness and despair was consumed my psyche for quite some time. (And still does to some degree.)
As someone who once contemplated suicide back in his adolescent years, I can tell you that, given enough time, life gets better. No matter what you’re going through, you just gotta remember that.
Heliotrope at 103, you’re spot on, as usual. I like your thinking.
Chuck at 115, you, too. And Tate, good for you for entering the discussion with a shout out for Chuck.
As for Joseph McMahon at 84, where you’ve said:
“Basically this guy was mentally unstable but the bottom line is if he hadn’t access to guns then the massacre WOUNDN’T [sic] have happened. All this nonsense about arming security guards, allowing students or teachers firearms, etc. is missing the central point. Gun control is the simple answer.”
I disagree. I’ll note the observation made today by Rush Limbaugh — this was not the biggest massacre of innocents in American history. The two biggest massacres happened with boxcutters and airplanes, and fertilizer and a rent-a-truck. Motivated evil people don’t necessarily use guns, and Ted Kaczinski (sp?) is simply another example.
What is the common factor in the above noted three instances, and in both the killings at Va. Tech yesterday and the DC area sniper killings two years ago? All, regardless of weapons used, made terror a vehicle by which they expressed their grievances. And as long as those grievances are discovered and told to those willing to “listen and learn” as part of the aftermath of the horror — and really, that includes all of us — there will be more episodes of such horror by very sick persons “expressing” their grievances in multitudes of horrific manners.
“Gun control” is not the manner by which to curb such sicko expression.
TaterCon
LIBBYGIRL @#97, spot on, my Sister!
Nuances such as “hope” are lost on him.
Poor Angel has issues with the inspired scriptures and likes to haunt these spaces. Having a devil’s advocate in discussions is always interesting and informative, unfortunately our Angel falls short time after time.
Yo Angel, where you at?!?
Not exact but I think applicable
I just want those in the Hokie Nation to know that there are many in the Gator Nation thinking of you with love and heartfelt sympathy. You are Hokies-stay strong and you will get through this.
Thank you for opening up your blog to let people “air”. Truly, this is tragedy beyond words. Let us all pray and grieve together…for them and with them.
Sending prayers from Canada. What a tragedy. I think each one of us needs to stop sitting at our computer pointing fingers and get up and do something. It’s easy at times like this to point fingers in all directions, it’s not so easy to ask ourselves what we can do. I urge everyone to keep talking about this, there are a lot of lessons to be learned from this, and until we as a society learn these lessons these types of tragedies will continue to happen. Point your finger at yourself and challege yourself to do something about it. Get into ACTION. Get involved, do whatever it is you can do, volunteer with the youth of today, pray, give someone a hug, DO SOMETHING. Again, I am praying for all involved in the VT tragedy.
Aw, c’mon Andy …. La Shawn shut down the last Duke discussion after the incredibly repetitive back ‘n forth ensued between you and Angel. You’re arguing with her for the sake of arguing. Let’s see valid point made in civil discourse without the taunts and challenges.
Please. TaterCon
Anyone find these correlation interesting?
(I heard the producer of some kind of family show called 7th Heaven or something like this make this observation to Glenn Beck yesterday, so this is not a direct quote, just what I seemed to recall)
I wonder how long it will be before we witness shades of Grindhouse and some of the latest blood, guts & mayhem flicks in the headlines to come?
The Imus brouhaha is nothing, absolutely nothing, but a tempest in the teacup compared to the profitable license we give big media to peddle their sickening tripe. Oh yeah, free speech, 1st Amendment and all that jazz. Somehow, I doubt that our Founding Fathers intended that We The People should just meekly & passively just roll over while the flesh peddlers pollute our kids with poison.
Some have said that instead of a right..there is now a need to give up arms, for the sake of our children.
I’ll bargain with them: I’ll give up my right to bear arms when they agree to give up their right to make & sell any speech that might contaminate my kids.
Note the emphasis on might.
Here’s the deal, nothing gets produced if there is a chance that it might produce a negative effect on kids. PERIOD. Do that and I’ll buy in.
Just keep in mind that some folks might have more stringent criteria than I, but that’s the lowest common denominator deal. To whit, I don’t have a problem with the classic Looney Tunes cartoons, but some do.
So for the namby-pambies clamoring to get rid of our guns, I’ll be waiting to get rid of their “free speech”. Somehow, I feel I shouldn’t hold my breath.
Thanks, Tater… You know, I would send my kids to college at Virginia Tech in a heartbeat. Duke? Never…
my goodnes what a tragedy.
i would like those who have suffered a loss so terrible to know that we are thinking of you.
please know that we share in your grief as much as someone very distant can. words do not seem enough,but hopefully you will get through this.
gordon
Tatercon, I’m sorry but you must have me confused with someone else. Two postings hardly makes an incredibly repetitive back ‘n forth.
Granted I did have the “last word” on that Duke thread, but still my bad if it didn’t measure up to a civil discourse, lacking valid points to boot.
PS, Angel’s a he.
Agreed, Tate. Resiliency and redemption are “R” words being taught by example at the Blacksburg campus today….
Sending prayers from WSU for those involved in the VT tragedy.
You’re right, Andy. My confusion, my bad. My apology is offered.
I sit miles away in Michigan….a teacher, a wife and a parent myself and my heart aches for each of you. I am honestly inspired by your strength and courage. The students that gathered on the Dateline special tonite and spoke so highly of your university and each other truly impressed me – I just think how nice it would be if everyone cared even half as much. You are an inspiration. Continue to find strength in each other and know that people across the country keep you close to their hearts.
TaterCon;
Alas, Andy is quite innocent and I’m the culprit and I must confess that I continued to respond to Angel out of fascination as I was trying to discover how long he would perseverate with an unvarying non-responsive post. My bad and my apologies.
“Alas, Andy is quite innocent and I’m the culprit and I must confess that I continued to respond to Angel out of fascination as I was trying to discover how long he would perseverate with an unvarying non-responsive post. My bad and my apologies.”
“Careful, Angel… You are showing your childish, bad attitude again…”
Do I really need to say anything at all?
No offense taken. As you have said, “Gun control†is not the manner by which to curb such sicko expression.”
If we give an inch on the anti-gun Brady bunch, they’ll take a mile.
And so goes the downward spiral.
After they get the guns, then what? Knife-Control!
Seriously, just ask our Brit friends what happens to the hapless home defender for using a kitchen knife on a home invader. They’re prosecuted while the criminal gets coddled.
How did it come to this?
Well, having got the guns, the nannies started looking for the next greatest threat of our times. Voila! They’ll come for any knives that don’t fit the utilitarian kitchen/dinning bill. And they’ll go after the right to use even a butterknife in self-defense.
Last I heard, anything over 5.5″ long is illegal. So of course, only the thugs and gangstas are packing cold long steel.
Next, these safety nannies won’t be satisfied even if we wave bye-bye to baseball bats & golf clubs or anything that could be swung in a deadly manner.
And should there come a day when one is knocked off by a hard-cover book, the nannies will want to gather up & burn all of them away.
For them it all boils down to It’s-The-Weapon-Stupid that causes so much pain & grief in this world, Not the so-called evil resident in every person.
gun-control laws are only more dangerous in peaceful areas. when it comes to schools in the city, no one would dare threaten to shoot an entire class, since probably a good number of these students can shoot back.
also, although this kid was known as a loner, i am pretty sure mere “lonerism” could have caused this. 23-year old college students are no longer concerned with that high school shizz. my bet is that this kid either has a mental condition, or possibly he was abused as a child.
i am writing from Rodrigues island,in the indian ocean.I have been following this tragedy on CNN since it started.I feel sorry for what happened.I want to express my condoleances to families of the victims,friends,students and administration of the university,and to the american people.
I would make an appeal to you all not to think of revenge.Let only time heal the pain and with the help of God.willy
No sympathies for the South Korean kid. People so warped who could go on a rampage should be shot down like rabid dogs before they can take innocent lives. Who are they to take away what they cannot create which is life?
So often, when a problem arises in society, solutions are proposed that don’t go to the core of the problem. Solutions should be viewed through the following lens: are the solutions tyranny based or freedom based. Most architects of tyranny that I witnessed around the world did so for “good” reasons and often a belief in the perfectability of the world and they were so enarmored of their own persipacity that they were willing to take away the freedoms of others.
I am also from the east coast of Canada and my heart goes out to all the people at VT…the families and friends have much healing ahead. May they all find some kind of peace in the days, months and possible years to come. This horrific act against their loved ones must be hard to comprehend.
God Bless
Take care of each other.
Im sorry that some one had to come and do something so bad to people that was just trying to get an education and make a living in life.to those that lost a family member or friend im sorry that you had to lose them that way but keep your heads up and every thing is goning to be ok.
hi my name is dillon white and i am 12 i am so sorry about all the losses and im praying for all the famlies God bless all the families i love all the people and im so sorry.
I think we can all agree that tonight we are all Hoakies…
http://www.americanlegends.blogspot.com/
As a mother , my heart goes out to all parents . No parent should have to bury a child….
To the loved ones left behind.. may God bless you
What good is a gun to protect you, when your neighbor has the exact same means of protection. You can’t fight fire with fire. I think it’s time to wake up our nation and re-evaluate what will make a better world. It might just be me, but I do not believe a better world includes civilians walking around with guns…
Comment by Mimi — 04.17.07 @ 5:38 pm
Okay, let’s say I have a gun and my neighbor has a gun. Let’s also say we are both law-abiding citizens. Absolutely no harm will come from both of us owning a firearm.
Now, let’s say I have a gun and my neighbor has a gun, but my neighbor is also a criminal. If my criminal neighbor who has a gun knows or suspects I also have a gun, how likely is he to come over and start trouble? Not very likely.
Now, let’s say my criminal neighbor has a gun, but he knows I do not own a gun, and my criminal neighbor covets what I have and decides to come over and take it by force. Someone is going to end up hurt, and it will most likely be me because I have no means to effectively defend myself.
Then-Governor Bush signed Texas’ Concealed Carry Law on May 26, 1995. A report by the National Center for Policy Analysis five years later shows that those licensed to carry a concealed weapon are significantly “less likely to a commit serious crime than the average citizen:
Texans who exercise their right to carry firearms are 5.7 times less likely to be arrested for a violent offense.
They are 14 times less likely to be arrested for a non-violent offense.
They are 1.4 times less likely to be arrested for murder.
Also:
The right to carry may also be affecting Texas’ crime rate in a positive way. Texas had a serious crime rate in the early 1990s that was 38 percent higher than the national average.
Since then, serious crime in Texas has dropped 50 percent faster than for the nation as a whole.
Murder rates have dropped 52 percent, compared to 33 percent nationally.
Rapes have fallen by 22 percent compared to 16 percent nationally.
More data here: Texas Concealed Handgun Association
I haven’t been able to locate current data for Texas, but responsible citizens who are licensed to carry a concealed weapon DO NOT contribute to increased crime.
I did find this, though, about the DC gun ban law being found unconstitutional. Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-TX) was quoted as saying “The District of Columbia enacted the Firearms and Control Regulations Act in 1976 that banned handguns and required rifles and shotguns to be registered and stored unloaded and either locked or dissembled, giving it the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation. Prior to the gun ban’s implementation, the murder rate in the District was on the decline. Following the ban, the murder rate began to rise while violent crime was decreasing nationally. According to the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports for 2005, the most recent year for which statistics are available, the District of Columbia led the nation in violent crime.â€
So, don’t tell me the solution to gun violence is banning guns.
What is the solution?
Let’s see….
The current situation, gun laws as they exist, obviously, does not work.
More lax gun laws, everyone owns an assault rifle,
most likely will not work. More people will die.
Even more lax laws, legalise rocket launchers. Everyone owns one, more people die. Probably not a good plan.
Keep finding more and more lethal means of arming the general public. More and more people die. What were we thinking……..or not thinking.
Pretty simple really, the more you arm the general populous, the more people there will be that should not have arms, and the more people that will be killed by these people. The only ones gaining anything from this, are weapons manufacturers, and the criminal justice system.
Hand guns are made to do one thing, kill people.
If you own one and carry one, then you should be prepared to do just that. Kill another human being or be killed yourself for drawing on another human being. As long as guns are around this will continue to happen. Cave man threw stones, general population shoots each other with guns, governments of people mass murder each other with WMD.
Cave man had the solution that killed the least.
Man have we ever progressed…….really?
If hand guns were outlawed and were no longer allowed to be manufactured, less and less people
will be shot and killed needlessly every year. The costs to our legal, criminal justice, and reform systems, could be far better served through health care and education.
Once more, why does the US not want other countries to develope nuclear arms? Could it be that we do not want them to kill us with them?
What is the difference? Why not make them legal for everyone, and then just defend ourselves when need be? What!
Because many people will die for no good reason. The same argument as for allowing people to carry tools to kill other people.
More Americans were killed by other Americans last year, (including familly and friends)than in all of the armed conflicts that the military is currently involved in. This means that statistically, we are safer going to war in a foreign country, than we are living our lives at home.
People kill people, guns just make it faster and easier.
One Answer To The Virginia Tech Massacre
The enemy of mankind has struck again with such a vengeance that the entire Nation is in shock. The Nation is grieved, appalled and overwhelmed with the numbers and the carnage. Yet, on a smaller yet personal scale this is happening all over America every day, one murder at a time.
In the aftermath people frantically come together, in agreement, working to overcome the pain and despair.
How this happens is evident to those who have ‘eyes to see’. We are a Nation struggling in a moral dilemma over eithics, politics, war and church. We appear to be a Nation divided against itself, on a historically suicidal mission of destruction, until disaster strikes in a monumental way. Then the hearts and minds are turned to comforting the families and restoration whereever possible. Putting aside personal prejudice and bias.
“We just don’t know ‘Why?’ this happened.†There will be hordes of media personalities, doctors and experts investigationg, analyzing and reporting their findings in the weeks to come. As well they should.
The answer to ‘Whjy?’ is on the shelf of most homes, every library, hotel room and Church in he Nation. It is not a simple answer but can be summed up in a single statement: “The thief comes to kill, rob and destroy!â€
The ‘thief’ has no respect for any person. He strikes against every color and race, every sexual orientation, every person regardless of age or spiritual orientation.
The ‘thief’ is an evil demonic spirit that lurks in the shadows just waiting for a victim who unknowingly opens himself or herself with passionate thoughts of anger, vengenance, murder, violence and retaliation.
The thieves that worked on 9-11 were no different than the one who worked on the young man at Virginia Tech, Columbine School, or any of the other shootings in our country.
Once the person’s free will is given over to violence of any kind, the demon has access to move in their being and destroy beyond all reason or normal capacity of human man. It never makes ‘rational sense’ because it is supernaturally employed and beyond human capacity.
Many are crying out to God, turning to God for consolation. God is there to hear the cry and comfort those in prayer.
Whether in agreement with good or evil, there is supernatural energy in agreement. There is a supernatural energy in disagreement, beyond what we have taken the time to evaluate, even though Quantum Physics has scientific knowledge of energy and how it works.
It is critical that the Nation pull together in agreement against the evils of the world, using the power of God, distinctly and freely as outlined in the Bible–a handbook on survival. Understanding the free will of man and the loving nature of the Creator of all things is the only answer. Whether it is one murder in a city, or 33 on a University Campus, the pain is devasting and crippling to everyone closely involved, and a ‘curse’ on our Nation. The life and teachings of Jesus were given to turn loss and defeat to abundant Life!
Respectfully submitted,
Carol Purcell
http://www.CarolPurcell.com
There are no words to express my sadness.My thoughts and prayers go out to the families.. My husband is in Iraq.Fighting for our country.I believe there is a bigger war back here in the u.s.a.that our goverment is ignoring! We need better laws to protect our children.I live in fear of that dreaded phone call! Yesterday 32 families will never be the same again.
Its the Staffs fault for not calling a lockdown, or evacuating or anything. They couldve taken precautions, y’know? These killings couldve been prevented if we had just thought to do something. I dont go to the school but im sure if i heard gunfire I would be out of there. If this is making you all mad, im sorry, just thought I should put my two cents out
blah blah blah… all you “right-to-bear-arms” freaks are SOOOO wrong!!! when are you EVER going to wake up and smell the roses? just because your forefathers put it in the constitution, you follow like sheep to the slaughter… did you ever think that they might have got it wrong, and that with the passage of time, you can learn from their/your mistakes? did you know there IS a better way to live… why do you have to shoot every goddamn thing in your path?
every day someone becomes a victim of a shooting… even most of the “popular” US TV shows these days are based on violent crimes, and it’s become such an integral part of the national psyche… a lot of you actually feel “undressed” if you don’t pack a gun!!! and we get fed a constant diet of this drivel…
I live in Australia, a country that has experienced it’s share of bloody massacres in the past (similar to Columbine & VT), but as a result of the absolute human tragedy and overwhelming community outrage, our government brought in tougher gun laws… yes, it may not solve ALL our problems, and the world will always have criminals/thugs who use violence as a form of power and control… but I refuse to believe that your tragically misguided rationale in some way improves one’s security in life, or sense of wellbeing… who, in their right mind would want to sleep with a gun under their pillow or in their closet, thinking that it will save them somehow? you worship your guns as saviours, and then pray for the victims such as at VT… I just don’t get it!!!
am I qualified to talk about this subject? I say yes, I am… as a former victim of crime, I would STILL much rather live without your type of paranoia, and with the knowledge that the majority of my community/society feels the same way.
my prayer is not only for Virginia, but for the whole US (and any other country with similarly warped logic)… please change your attitude towards your “right-to-bear-arms” or else we will ALL suffer the consequences for years to come…
My condolences go out to the families who lost loved ones in this massacre.
My husband commented that he is no longer surprised at such happenings in our society. After all, we collectively kill our own offspring on a daily basis “like it’s taking out the trash.” And yet, we expect young people to value life. It is just not going to happen. There’s too great a disconnect there.
Still, such an atrocity takes ones breath away. As LaShawn said, there are no words.
Whistler~
Your arguments are beyond ridiculous. In a perfect world, the only need for a firearm would be for hunting, because everyone would live in harmony. But, humans are imperfect beings and there will always be those that will prey on the weak and defenseless. If it’s not with guns, it will be with something else. Just about anything can be turned into a weapon. With the appropriate knowledge, and the will to do so, the ballpoint pens I carry in my purse could be used to kill someone. Should we outlaw those, and make everyone write with a quill? Pillows can be used to suffocate someone. Should we outlaw those? A pair of pantyhose can be used to strangle someone. Should we outlaw those and make women go with bare legs?
You go to one extreme in your silly argument. I’m following your same argument to the other illogical extreme.
comment on #109
maybe we are actually “living in the Wild West” since public culture (as opposed to many individuals) has proudly disconnected itself from any accoutability to a Creator God and rendered acceptable the right to do whatever I want. It seems the everyone’s ego is at the centre (”MY rights”) instead of the community.
“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom”
Whistling Dixie. Ah yes, the US death rate by guns is atrocious, almost at the top of the list in 1st/2nd world stats. But then when one factors in suicide and violent deaths by means other than firearms, the US violent death rate falls to middling, as in not even in the top 10.
I am of course referring to none other than the esteemed International Epldemiological Association 1998 study of gun deaths so breathlessly regurgitated by the anti-gun lobby.
Plus, speaking for myself, I have a problem when researchers reference stats that aren’t even within the same year.
That the US had a total gun death rate of 15.22 (per 100,000) in 1993 while England/Wales had a gun death rate of 0.46 in 1992, Ireland a rate of 1.21 in 1991, while Scotland comes in at 0.58 in 1994 is NOT comparing apples to apples. It’s not even apples to oranges.
I’d rather know the numbers on a year by year basis across the board. Plus, what’s up with breaking out Great Britain while lumping the US? If the US was broken out, the stats would look pretty bad for the liberal bastions of gun control. I guess better for the argument to lump all the States together, then blame the numbers on the NRA & pro-gun advocates
Regardless of the skewed years, it’s definitely an improvement for England since the middle ages where according to records, the violent deaths were as high as 60 per. Mayhaps taking the swords, lances, bows and arrows away did the trick?
Going back to those IEA numbers. They take on new meaning when one looks at the totality of violent deaths, regardless whether by gun, butter knife, honor killings (depending on the locale, doesn’t get reported as murder) etc. To include suicide. Anyway you slice it, suicide is a “violent” death.
The total violent death rate for the US is 18.57. England/Wales comes in at 9.53, Scotland at 14.46 & Ireland at 10.68. Still looks bad for the US eh? Wait, there’s more… Portugal, Belgium, Mexico, France, Switzerland, Austria, Denmark, Brazil, Finland, Slovenia, Hungary & Estonia all surpass the US, ranging from 18.95 all the way up to 70.76.
For the curious, where does Japan & South Korea rank? Japan’s (1994) gun rate is 0.06, suicide rate is 16.72, for a total violent death rate of 17.34. Meanwhile, South Korea’s (1994) gun rate is 0.06, suicide rate is 9.48 and total violent death rate is 11.17
Bottomline, without consistency, stats are just manipulations. I’m sure someone will come along and blow these stats to kingdom come.
The real answer lies in sense of security. As long as John Q. Public feels confident & relatively secure, he’s a happy camper. If not, he’d be a nervous Nellie. I guess either condition is preferable to being totally oblivious to danger. Hmmm, maybe there’s some correlating to do here.
Anyhoo, Happy Camper signing off
Andrea Said: “I just wanted to let all of you at VA Tech know my prayers and thoughts are with you. You all showed bravery in the midst of chaos and tragedy yesterday. I hope you survivors consider some type of counseling, but I know from past experience sometimes the best therapy is talking it out with someone who’s been thru it themselves.
Tech is a great school, with great educators and even better students. You all proved that yesterday. You guys and gals stay strong.
To all the people who think Tech officials and police officials didn’t do it quite right yesterday – hindsight is 20/20, in my opinion. The college is located in a relatively low crime area compared to other universities. I don’t think anyone could have possibly forseen this insanity.
Also, the campus has a normal population the size of a small city. How does one notify an entire city of impending danger normally? I really don’t mean to sound sarcastic, but other than a huge siren how could you notify everyone?
SteveDinMD: Andrea, that’s a very good point you bring up. I think the Virginia Tech Police and administration have been unfairly criticized for their response. Many in the media have said that after the first shooting incident the entire campus should have been “locked down.” Just what do they mean by this? As a Virginia Tech alumnus, I have to conclude that the people making this criticism have never visited Virginia Tech, otherwise they would immediately realize the impossibility of their suggestion. it might well work in the case of a high school or small campus, but not one as large as Virginia Tech’s. Here in Baltimore, there are shootings EVERY DAY, but I’ve never heard anyone demand that the mayor immediately “lock down” the entire city after each and every incident. This comparison is not at all unreasonable. Lets consdier the VT situation in detail.
First, the main campus is THOUSANDS of acres in size, on which is situated between 100 and 200 buildings. How does one lock all that down? The answer is, one can’t. The only thing one can do is block off vehicular traffic to and from campus. Second, the student body totals approximately 26,000, of whom more than half live in off-campus housing and commute to class daily. How does one secure so many people coming and going in so many different directions? The answer is, one can’t. All one can do is largely contain on campus those who are already there, and turn away those who aren’t. Third, the shooter being a student, himself, how does one separate him from his thousands of classmates, to whom he poses a danger? The answer is, one can’t. All one can do under the circumstances is continue the police investigation in the hopes of ascertaining his identity and/or wait for him to reveal himself. As it so happened, the shooter revealed himself in shocking fashion.
Given the circumstances, I contend that there was little if anything that could have been done to avert the later carnage. The shooter could have chosen to go ANYWHERE, including any proposed student refuge, where he would have been no less able to attack people gathered at that location than he was at Norris Hall. Furthermore, had the University simply broadcast a “Run for your lives!” message over public address and radio to the student body urging them to flee, the end result in such case couldn’t be expected to be any less tragic than what actually transpired. The shooter could have opted to attack his classmates as they swarmed in their thousands in flight, or he could have entered a dormitory, or dining hall, or the library to commit mass murder where people could be predicted to take refuge. I don’t see any obvious way this tragedy could have been avoided or the death toll reduced, at least not after the first shootings.
I’m a professor at one of the state universities in Wisconsin.
I am very saddened by the horrible tragedy on your campus. I have worked with college students for over 25 years and know the special feeling between students, their university and the special feeling that professors have for their students.
I know there will be a long period of healing for all of you and you should know that persons from all over the US are grieving with you.
My thoughts and prayers are with you at this difficult time.
Angel, there you go again in #149, conflating multiple commenters and confusing the rest in the process.
As a Virginia Tech Student I can say, in response to other posts, that this is the FIRST on campus shooting. The Morva incident (the crazed fugitive during the fall semester) did not occur on campus. In fact, the campus was closed immediately due to rumors that Morva had made his way to campus. The two people killed in that incident were killed either in Christiansburg or around 2 miles from campus. I support the University entirely. Don’t believe the media bull shit, Tech is as safe of a campus as any other in the world. There is no heavy security here because there has never been a reason for it. It is very unfortunate, tragic, and senseless act. My prayers are with all my fellow hokies and there families.
Well said, SteveD. It’s hard enough to “lock down” a middle school. The first questions from the “talking heads”, however, were “Why wasn’t the Va. Tech campus secured?” And to what avail would it have been, anyway? The perp was in the midst of the proposed lock-in, bent on making his “statement” through terror and carnage brought to innocents.
Amanda, you just don’t get it, do you? I don’t mind having the discussion, but I do mind when people don’t use critical thinking.
Every thug in American probably has several guns. How are you going to retrieve those guns? Any ideas? If you have no ideas, then it is just as I suspected — you engage in magical thinking and are not equipped to have this discussion.
Magical thinking? Why do you insist on being so rude and patronising?? I am offering ideas here, not trying to SOLVE everything. I think you are just arguing for the sake of it. There is NO WAY anything is going to improve if no body is willing to at least TRY. Something has to be done about the gun situation in America – and i’m not suggesting i have all the answers, but at least i can SEE that there is a problem that needs addressing – AND FAST, before this happens again, which unfortunately looks inevitable at the moment.
Amanda, now you are being disingenuous on top of everything else! When I call you out on your comment, you whine that you don’t have solutions (as though it is unreasonable of me to ask you to have some). Yet, you CLAIM that gun control IS the solution, and that furthermore, “it is as simple as that.” I am merely pointing out that gun control is not the solution and I give TWO reasons why (though there are many more); then I ask you to give me AT LEAST ONE reason why gun control is a solution, and you can’t!!!!!!
I think that’s hilarious. Come on girl, have a discussion. A pie in the sky platitude “if there were no guns, there would be no shootings, it’s as simple as that” is not an argument, not a discussion, and most importantly, not a solution.
So don’t cry and whine about how insulting I am being to you when all I have asked you to do is explain how you would convert your platitude into an actual, effective, workable solution. And you cannot do it.
“I am offering ideas here, not trying to SOLVE everything.”
Oh, and a platitude does not really qualify as an idea either. Furthermore, ideas are only valuable inasmuch as they have the potential to lead to solutions.
Love the gun control stuff, batyah. I’m opening a new discussion thread just for this:
http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2007/04/18/intellectual-and-physical-disarmament/
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