Update III (5/10): Oklahoma’s new law is working already. As I said before, it can and should serve as a model law for other states.
Also see OutragedPatriots.com, hosted by two retired Oklahoma state troopers.
They write: “We remember what it was like when people could work and make a decent living without the devastation of uninsured, unlicensed, illegal aliens competing against them. We’ve seen good people with successful businesses suffer the past few years as their earnings progressively decreased due to poverty-level bids from illegal aliens driving down the industry standard wage for their respective trades.
“We remember the days when we arrested illegal aliens and the federal government did its job by quickly dispatching Immigration Enforcement Agents who promptly deported the criminals back to their home countries.
“We remember the days when more than 2 out of 3 motor vehicles on the roads in Oklahoma were insured and driven by licensed drivers.
“We also remember a time when both, Democrats and Republicans, would do their jobs in Washington when it came to protecting our borders and our culture.”
Update II: Read the law. Learn the law. Obey the law.
Speaking of which, if local law enforcement had the authority to question stopped motorists or criminal suspects about the status of their citizenship, three of the Muslim idiots who plotted to blow up Fort Dix may have been deported, or at least reported. Instead, the three illegal aliens, who entered this country through the southern border, the same one Central American criminals consider a joke, were free to roam and plot while laughing at America’s suicidal stupidity.
Update: In last week’s “immigration” rant, I mentioned that blacks and hispanics (who are just as race conscious as blacks) soon will be fighting over political seats.
With diminishing political clout, blacks are in a perilous position. Check out this fight in California.
If that amnesty-for-illegal-aliens bill passes, millions of hispanics will be on the citizenship track, i.e., eligible to vote. Wait till that happens. Two “minority” groups that both feel entitled are fighting for limited political power and preferred status. It’s gonna get ugly. Celebrate diversity, anyone?
Here’s the crux of the matter: “[T]here is an undercurrent of tension between both ethnic groups at the local level that comes down to one basic point: Blacks led the civil rights struggles that are now benefiting the faster-growing Latino population.”
Yep. And it’s only the beginning, and there isn’t much blacks can do about it. As “Latinos” increase in number and influence, be prepared to kiss all those white-guilt perks goodbye.
Solution? Support enforcement of immigration law and oppose any “reform” that will reward law breakers. That’s a start.
——————————————————————————–
Oklahoma governor Brad Henry, the man I called a pantywaist politico, finally signed the “controversial” anti-illegal alien bill into law.
I don’t take back the pantywaist comment, though. The fact that Henry was reluctant to sign a bill that would protect his own citizens — the people who put him in office — means his heart isn’t really in the fight to curb illegal “immigration.” Political pressure pushed him to sign it, and that’s a darn shame.
Still, the new law is good for legal residents and citizens of Oklahoma. Let’s hope the state bill serves as a model for other states as they struggle to deal with the spoiled fruits of the federal government’s criminal neglect.
Highlights from the Oklahoma Taxpayer and Citizen Protection Act of 2007:
- Penalties for businesses that “knowingly” hire illegal aliens to gain a “competitive advantage.” Why does it matter why they hire illegal aliens? That they hire them should be enough, but…whatever.
- State agencies will be required to use the Basic Pilot program beginning November 1, 2007; private companies on July 1, 2008.
- Only citizens and legal aliens can get driver’s licenses, ID cards, and welfare.
Lowlight:
- Illegal aliens still receive in-state tuition. There are a bunch of conditions, but as far as I’m concerned, they’re meaningless.
All in all, it’s a good bill, one that should be modeled by every state in the Union. Nothing will ever stop people with or without the proper papers from trying to get into this great country, but we can at least allievate some of the hardship endured by law-abiding residents and citizens.
What is your state or town doing, if anything, to curb illegal “immigration”?
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In April 2006, GA Governor Sonny Perdue signed into effect a bill called the “Security and Immigration Compliance Act” which includes requirement of citizenship verification for use of public services and penalty for businesses that compensate undocumented employees. At the time this bill went into effect, it was considered the toughest act (state-level) against immigration in the country thus far. The link provides info on the other restrictions outlined in the bill.
http://www.gov.state.ga.us/press/2006/press1114.shtml
Any business knowingly hiring illegals should be fined until blood flows.
Any business stupid enough to unwittingly hire illegals should be sanctioned and put on a state police watch list.
Any state employee, bureaucrat or politician who gives or makes available public funds to illegals, in any form whatever, should be fired and arrested.
NOT A DAMN THING! I live in New Orleans and I think half of Mexico is living here now post Katrina. Of course, the illegals have done most of the work on the rebuilding effort, so who in there right mind would want to stop that? /sarcasm off.
There are now “taco stands” on every other corner. And you should see them all standing at the gas stations in the morning waiting for work. There’s a running joke here that FEMA stands for Find Every Mexican Available.
I’m not sure what exactly the great state of Louisiana plans on doing about that. We are a port city and that means we need stringent security measures in place. God only knows who could come in, get a job there and wreak havoc on a national level.
P.S. Check out this headline on MSN:
HEZBOLLAH BUILDS SOUTH AMERICAN BASE
http://www.msnbc.com/id/178743691
Be afraid. Be very afraid!
And we know how the infamous ACLU will react to this like they always do with one of their stupid lawsuits SCREW THE ACLU and SCREW MEXICO.
Kansas – Red State?
Driver’s licenses to illegals
In state tuition to illegals
English only but govt forms can take steps to print
in any language they want to
Kathleen Sebelius DEMOCRAT governor
Correction to above #7 “English only but government AGENCIES can take steps to print in any language they want to (in other words English means nothing).
Still receive in-state tuition. My son, who was born in the US, in a military hospital, had to jump through all kinds of hoops to prove he had a “presence” in our state, in order to qualify for in-state tuition at a community college. I had the same fight years ago, because my husband was military and didn’t pay state income tax. Didn’t matter that I was working and paying it on my salary.
So I guess you can just skip all this if you just tell them you’re illegal? How exactly does that work?
People illiegal immigrants vote Democrat with fake ID and SSN. The illegal situation must be dealt with and any one in their right should see it. Just look at the Fort Dix situation, three were illegal, here to blow up OUR country in the name of their religion. Can anyone not see what will happen if we don’t get control of the situation?
Ummm, this is good but what about securing the flipping border? We can bail day and night but we need to fix the leaks in the boat.
Until we secure the border none of this means a damn thing.
What part of ILLEGAL are people missing??
Press 1 for deportation…
During the late 1990’s Fort Dix sheltered 10,000 Kosovo muslim refugees from the war in Bosnia.
Our government, under Clinton bombed their Christian Serbian opponents enabling Kosovian muslims to over run the balkans.
I wonder if any of the terrorists planning the Fort Dix massacre were shelterd as refugees at Fort Dix?
La Shawn, that panty-waist term is accurate, especially if you ever hear him speak — sort of a sing-song tone. Girly-man also comes to mind.
We’ve wondered if he would stick to his core beliefs and veto it, gaining the accolades of the drive-by liberals. As soon as he signed it, he caveated it with this gem, and I paraphrase: “We must monitor this bill to ensure there are no unintended consequences”
Du-u-uh!!! Is this guy obtuse or what? Rather than acting like a keel to stabilize a turning ship, this clown just weathervaned.
Now the joke is on him. He’s a lame duck, even the blue-dogs won’t claim him as one of their own.
The bi-partisan congressional response to this flash of insight cum brilliance was to let him know last night that the new, improved & veto-proof anti-abortion with state funds/resources was heading back to his desk as early as tomorrow.
How does that Eddie Murphy laugh go?
To Margaret, #13: If I correctly read Michelle Malkin’s article, “Jersey Jihadists, open borders and the thanks we get”, posted today, the answer is yes.
Green Bay is proposing that no city licenses be issued to “unauthorized aliens” and that all those who hold city licenses be prohibited from hiring illegal immigrants. It’s being met with the usual name-calling.
The rest of Wisconsin is rolling out the alfombra roja. I swear these people invented white guilt.
Re: the California district…those black folks better volunteer for the district polling places and make sure that those voting _age_ hispanics are also _legal_ voting adults. It behooves them to be participating citizens, if they want to keep things on an even keel.
Andy,
This is a bit off-topic of immigration, but somewhat appropriate about the gov of OK being a panty-waste, err waist…
Do you remember the forest fires that consumed thousands of acres about a year and a half ago? My husband and I were living in Jenks at the time, and we were watching the local news. The comment that Henry made was “we know that alot of fires are man made fires, and those are the fires we should be preventing…” He said it about as intelligently as Gov. Blanco said ” the buck stops here” (where it took her a full two seconds of moving her arm around in front of her face before she pointed her finger to her chest) after Louisiana’s response to Hurricane Katrina.
(Forgive the rant, La Shawn)
KKD, I remember the fires while I was in Iraq, however, Guv Henry never ranked coverage in what media I could get there. Nonetheless, it doesn’t surprise me.
He done brung us the Lotto and other get rich quick schemes that never panned out as expected. I’m hoping they’ll get overturned soon enough.
Charitably, Brad Henry served OK well in showing & re-emphasizing to us why secular progressives can’t lead. Fortunately, there were enough adults to reign in his excesses.
At the rate he’s going, I wonder if any donk candidate will come, hat in hand seeking his endorsement & support? They shouldn’t, but I guess cHillary, Obama and Breckgirl won’t be able to help themselves.
It’s the lure of easy money, it’s got a very strong appeal.
Would anyone like to make a small wager on how long our Government will avoid the issue of ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION?
Press 1 for After the 2008 elections?
Press 2 for After the next illegal kills someone?
Press 3 for NEVER!
No Amnesty!!!
Dexy,
Press ‘4′ for after the next 9/11 style attack… Then maybe they’ll pay attention…
Fox News reported a few minutes ago that the three illegal alien brothers may have entered the country in 1984 near Brownsville, Texas. So, it’s just Mexicans entering illegally over the southern border, huh??
I put up a post back in February about border security. In it, I pointed out how it’s not just Mexicans coming over…
I live in Oklahoma, too, and it appears to me that what is going on in my state is being grossly mischaracterized.
Those illegal Oklahoma residents who receive in-state tuition are 18-year-olds who as children were required to go wherever their parents went, and their parents went into the USA in a way that is illegal. Now, that those children have reached adulthood, they are being given a chance to undo the mistake of their parents by becoming legal residents. These particular 18-year-olds have filed the necessary government paperwork in order to become legal.
Again, these people were children when they entered the USA with their parents, and at that time they had no control over where they lived because they were minors. They are not the sinners. Their parents are.
Sadly, there are people who wish to punish children for the sins of their parents.
For what it’s worth, Gov. Brad Henry didn’t give the Oklahoma Lottery to Oklahoma. Oklahoma voters gave it to Oklahoma by way of something called “Democracy”. The majory of Oklahoma voters voted in favor of the lottery. Gov. Henry, however, went on public record as being opposed to the lottery, and he voted against it.
I am neither a liberal nor a Democrat. However, I am opposed to any person being mischaracterized, regardless of that person’s politics.
I live in Austin which is actively “encouraging” illegals to move here. Recently, a policeman told me that property crime, drunk driving, and hit-and-run accidents are through the roof in certain areas. Also, because of multiple families living together, certain schools are seeing their student population sky-rocket without any new construction or added property tax payers. Meanwhile, folks are literally being taxed out of their homes.
another thing: Have you guys seen Catholic churches who are now engaged in a sanctuary project in which they are shielding illegals from deportation. The bizarre thing is that the same folks who support the church’s involvement in the sanctuary project are the same folks screaming about the separation of church and state. They froth at the mouth if an evangelical Christian church commits the travesty of mentioning politics in the pulpit (though black churches can “do” politics all day long and even pay for votes according to Angela McGlowan)
What a crazy world we live in!
Jan~
It’s not just Catholic churches. I saw a report on FNC saying it included a variety of Christian denominations, Jewish and Muslim groups as well.
What is my State or Town doing to combat the invasion?
Oh, well I live in Los Angeles, Mexico…and we all know exactly what is being done.
I guess now they are disarming the LAPD, due to the “use of force” (??????) at the May Day protests.
Not a single person died. And, frankly, nobody’s come up with a single injury (give ‘em time)…but no matter. LAPD must be disarmed, at once.
Me and my stupid fantasies of mass deportation will have to wait, I guess, a little longer.
David, you may have something on me there with regards to the genesis & hype of the OK lottery. That was BMT (before my time) as a resident. Altho I’ve been traipsing in & out since 04 on business, I didn’t get submersed in OK politics until last year. I was relying on the say-so of various people as to what transpired.
My understanding according to these residents is that Henry promoted the lottery as a win-win for public education. From the horse’s mouth, we read; “Oklahomans overwhelmingly approved the lottery last year because they wanted to do something bold for education,â€
Hmmm, sure sounds like a weathervane in going with the flow of the people’s will. David, maybe an apology is due to Panty-Waste.
Wait a minute, what’s this? A newsflash from my Senator?
There’s more there, but suffice to say, I need a third source. Since the MSM has credibility & bias issues, let’s go back to the Governor’s own About page: “He also successfully fought to let voters decide whether to establish an education lottery to benefit the state’s classrooms; voters overwhelmingly passed the lottery in November, 2004.”
I hope I got it correct cause I’d hate to mischaracterize anything or anybody?
And to think this guy was a deacon at the 1st Baptist Church & Sunday School teacher? Wonder if WWJD in Shawnee means hiding that light under a bushel and withholding the salt due to the obesity epidemic.
So when people tell me he’s a flip-flopper on abortion, tort reform, immigration among others, I kinda have to give them credence.
I am a member of a Methodist church, which has supported illegal immigrants for a long time. I find myself resenting my donations, wondering if they are going to illegal aliens. I’m not above helping people in need, but this is different. I don’t think I should be an enabler. I don’t think the church should be an enabler. There are lots of people in this country, people here legally, who do need my support.
Of course, I’m conflicted. Anybody else?
I’ve not been going to church regular for the past year, and hearing things like this isn’t likely to get me going back…
I am quite torn. If I knew of a child that was truly suffering and that I could help, I would do it in a heartbeat, regardless of whether they were legal.
What I object to is Church’s making a political statement. I was attending one Catholic church that joined the Texas Freedom Network (google it) and was stunned every week to be hearing a left leaning laundry list that went beyond “loving one’s neighbors.”
Essentially, the message was “Love one’s neighbors by paying more and more taxes whether they help those in need or not or whether the recipients are simply making bad choices or not.”
The “privileged” class was bashed in every sermon while the not-so-privileged-class was shown love week after week. Meanwhile, quite a few of the not-so-privileged class that I live amongst was robbing, beating, and trashing their neighbors while living off of their neighbor’s paychecks)
At the end of the day, most folks truly are concerned about suffering but it is beyond me why those in the pulpit have so little sympathy for those who are victimized by crime and for those whose lives are made so much harder by the taxes they are forced to pay.
Most of the so-called “mainline” churches have national offices run by liberals and leftists. It’s no wonder that membership in evangelical bodies is growing, while the liberal church membership is stagnant and even declining.
La Shawn,
I’m coming in a little late on this discussion as I was out of the office yesterday dealing with the DA’s office. I will say that I was very suprised that Gov. Henry signed the bill, but it won’t go into effect until November, which gives opponents plenty of time to try to block it through the courts or figure out ways to get around it.
Henry was really under a lot of pressure to sign the bill. He could have chosen not to sign it, in which case it would have went into law anyway, or he could have vetoed it, but it looked like there were enough votes for an override. Politically he really had no choice.
I notice some sparring about the State Lottery between Andy and David. Since this thread is not about that I will simply say that yes, the voters passed it, but they were sold a “bill of goods” that has not come ANYWHERE NEAR delivering the funds to education that Gov. Henry promised in the drive to get the initiative passed.
Oh, and by the way David, I don’t care how the innocent children of ILLEGAL immigrants got to the state, they are here as the result of illegal actions on the part of their parents, and should not be allowed to ride on the back of Oklahoma taxpayers by getting in-state tuition benefits as a consequence of their parents breaking the law to get here.
Now everyone’s unhappy about churches making political statements. So, the co-opting of evangelicals by the Republican Party was not political.
Angel, the reason that many Christians tend to vote GOP is that their views are more closely aligned with the GOP than the Democrats. I don’t like the fact that Christians are helping to break the law either. We’re supposed to respect the law, of course not everyone feels that way. But this is America so we should have seen it coming.
Actually I have no problem with churches helping illegals. Civil disobedience has a long tradition in religion. I just wonder if we would have the same discomfort if Canadians were streaming across our borders.
Angel, the answer is yes. Illegal is illegal, Canadian or not. They are coming here from all over the world. There is no difference in their national status, other than from known terrorist countries, in which case special attention should be given.
I just don’t see this as a race issue.
I seem to recall nationwide outrage about Irish immigrants back in the day.
I guarantee that if this country was flooded by illegals from England that had 4.3 kids on average, who demanded that we started to teach “cockney” and whose children were overwhelmingly welfare recipients, there would be an outcry.
I am fairly convinced that this issue has more to do with taxes than anything else.
Dianne,
I already know I’m in the minority opinion on this board. But, I’m not convinced that cultural identity doesn’t play a large role in people’s attitudes toward illegals. The terrorist part I get, but that is the smallest of numbers among them.
jan,
Then where are the signs protesting the tax burden created by the influx?
Angel, it’s not the cultural identity. It’s the loss of jobs and/or declining wages not just for minorities by the way, but also everybody else who is sitting home without wages while an illegal is being paid in cash for roofing the house down the street. That’s the bottom line. It’s bread and butter. And, to add injury to insult, the guy down the street is paying taxes to educate the illegal’s child and to provide medical care for the illegal that he can’t get cause he lost his job.
It’s simply not fair to American citizens, unless you’re Paris Hilton and her ilk.
And, if you recall the outrage about Irish immigrants back in the day, how the hell old are you? Just kidding…
Jan,
I’m RC. Equally unhappy. Do remember that Christianity in the very early days was communistic in practice. However voluntary communism is not the same as legal enforcement of Communism. And though I can’t remember the particular passage, I recall something – by Paul? – about those who don’t work don’t get fed. That should be a part of the whole thing as well.
I agree with you – the Church should _not_ be enabling illegal immigration. They are breaking the law and should be called on it. As a member, got any ideas?
As for the Canadian refugee possibility – I agree somewhat – the difference is language. If Canadians were illegally immigrating, we probably wouldn’t even notice. If Mexicans and others confine themselves to ghettos and refuse to learn English – they stick out like a sore thumb.
Dianne,
The influx does decrease jobs for low-skilled blacks and I do struggle with that part of the equation. I just don’t like the idea of demonizing people for trying to survive. The Mexican government will not do a thing to improve conditions there. And, among the Central and South American countries, it is even worse for the poor. If I were one of these folks, I’d be hard pressed not to try to come here. Again, I know nobody agrees with me.
Suek,
There are actually waiting lists for people wanting to learn English here in Massachusetts. How many of those folks are from Central or South America I don’t know. The one thing I would do is take away the crutch of “Press 1″ and ballots in different languages, etc. Then, people would be forced to learn English in order to participate. Otherwise, as in the past, they would be locked in an economic ghetto of their choosing.
Angel, how do you justify your support of churches which conspire to break the laws of this country?
Redbeard,
Sometimes churches serve a higher mission. Like I’ve said, nobody here agrees with me, but churches are in the business of compassion. Sometimes that transcends the law. That’s just my opinion as an agnostic, by the way. I do recognize the value of churches in service to their communities.
Angel, I’m trying to recall examples where “Civil disobedience has a long tradition in religion” is true.
Lessee, starting with tradition:
# an inherited pattern of thought or action
# custom: a specific practice of long standing
# A tradition is a story or a custom that is memorized and passed down from generation to generation, originally without the need for a writing system. Tools to aid this process include poetic devices such as rhyme and alliteration. The stories thus preserved are also referred to as tradition, or as part of an oral tradition.
Oh welll, glad you said ‘religion’ and not ‘Christianity’. Cause when we go to The Source, we see the following:
# Render unto Caesar…
# Good Samaritan…
# And I love this part because it shreds the Libertine doctrine to pieces — Matt 15:1 – 20
Jesus was NOT a Liberal, in the mold of the Justice Brothers or these radical churches that’ve gone astray. Situational ethics is not part of Christ’s world view.
Peter and Paul further cement this notion with Acts 5:29, Romans 13 & Philemon 1. Emotion can be a good thing, but not always good nor dependable, and certainly not when disobedient also sprach 1 Timothy 1 & Hebrews 13
Angel @ 44: “I just don’t like the idea of demonizing people for trying to survive.
Then demonize Mexico and all the other corrupt nations for not being more transparent, and holding these truths to be self-evident, like the US.
We should be telling Mexico they need to shape up or maybe we’ll come in and complete the job we started back in the 1800s by annexing them.
Andy,
So, MLK Jr wasn’t a Christian?
Andy,
It’s not my job to tell Mexico that. You and the people on your side need to do that.
#38 “I just don’t see this as a race issue.
I seem to recall nationwide outrage about Irish immigrants back in the day.”
In Britain there is still some hangover from the ‘racial’ hatred that was levelled at the Irish for decades. “No blacks, no Irish, No dogs” were common signs posted on public establishments in England up until the 60’s-early 70’s.
With respect Jan, and make of it what you will, but I don’t see the evidence of ‘hating the Irish the same’ to be evidence of no racial element being involved. Common bigotry seems to cross the semantics issue in such circumstances.
However, I don’t know how many people in America lump ‘Hispanics’ together under a negative umbrella, and wouldn’t deem it fit to speak for them.
Regards,
JohnD
Andy,
Blind obedience is not a good thing.
JohnD;
You may be right that it is racial (I still think it has much more to do with class), but I have asked my son-in-laws(Cuba and Columbia) whether they have noticed negative treatment based upon their ethnicity. They say that they honestly have not noticed even a hint of it. They also say that the constant drumbeat about racism bothers them and that most folks treat you well if you treat them well.
Admittedly, they are charming, fun-loving, hard-working, and smart -smiles- so perhaps they see a different America than others.
Most of my kids’ friends are of other races as they were born and raised in the Middle East, and I am always seeing them in racially mixed groups and it seems rather normal. To me, folks just seem to take it in stride and I have never seen that any of their friends or those they encounter have any problem with accepting others or being accepted.
To me, the problem has much more to do with class and I just don’t think that a huge influx of folks that are not even literate in their own language is easily absorbed.
Ok, then we should take the cafeteria approach to the law, and just obey the parts we like?
Cool. I don’t like the law against bank robbery, so here goes…….
Angel, what does MLK or blind obedience have to do with what I posted.
IOW, you didn’t understand a single thing I said, or were you once again conceding everything and just wondered how MLK fit in?
Actually, he did just fine for the most part. One may protest, but when doing so, don’t be surprised when the law exercises the sword.
As for washing your hand of telling Mexico. Seems to me that maybe you should, especially since you’re in the minority. When 60 to 70% are against illegal immigration, the smart thing for bleeding hearts is to take Mexico aside and try to help them avert the impending pushback.
When you’re engaged, then you’re helping to frame the dialogue. Otherwise, you’ll be left on the sidelines. Your choice. But operating sanctuaries is not engagement, and is as delusional as lobbing mortars and storing weapons in a mosque is safe haven.
Know what, I think your side can’t help themselves. Just like Ms Royal and her ilk couldn’t help themselves in losing and getting only one thing right — a riot.
In other words do like Tony Blair did in saving the Monarchy from itself and in spite of his peers
Redbeard;
I would like to indulge in some civil disobedience about my taxes. What do ya think?
#23,
Thats like punishing the hammer because it hit the nail or punishing the moon because the sun rose the next day. Please, this is bigger than kids follwoing their parents. We are talking about ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION! People coming across the border not only to look for work but ti DISRUPT OUR WAY OF LIFE! How hare is it to see? Open your eyes to the big picture. It is illegal to come here without permission and no one seems to give a crap about stopping the flow of ILLEGALS. I emphasize ‘ILLEGAL’ because so many people overlook that fact. This is bigger than the children of ILLEGALS. This is about SECURITY for my children and neighbors.
#44 you said:
The influx does decrease jobs for low-skilled blacks and I do struggle with that part of the equation. I just don’t like the idea of demonizing people for trying to survive. The Mexican government will not do a thing to improve conditions there. And, among the Central and South American countries, it is even worse for the poor. If I were one of these folks, I’d be hard pressed not to try to come here. Again, I know nobody agrees with me.
Now is that suppose to be our burden? If they want to come to this country do it legally. That is all we are asking, do it legally.
Andy,
We’re were discussing(at least I thought we were) the tradition of civil disobedience and it seemed that you wanted to detach Christianity from that tradition. But, MLK Jr, did indeed practice civil disobedience and was, in fact, a Christian.
This whole “Angel is stupid” shtick is getting tired.
Dexy,
I’m not arguing whose burden it should or shouldn’t be. The discussion was about the role churches play in helping illegals. That was the scope of it. The rest of it I’ve discussed to death already.
Redbeard,
It makes sense for you to do that. According to statistics, bank robbery is the most foolish crime you can commit. The odds of getting caught are better than being busted for murder.
I’m sorry but I live in a different time zone Angel. When I come online to post, you guys are already many post ahead of me. The post I replied to was made when I was still in bed.
HST
jan,
Go ahead. Don’t pay your taxes. If you believe it is morally wrong for your to be compelled to hand over a portion of your wages to help pay for government expenses, don’t do it. That’s the point of civil disobedience. It’s a noble tradition. Mock it all you want.
Dexy,
That’s cool. You’ve always been civil to me.
Angel, MLK also understood (as we all do) that the Jim Crow laws were unjust laws. Can you say the same about the illegal immigrants? To me there is a big difference between the two.
And no I don’t think you’re stupid just because I don’t agree with you… (wait is that allowed?
)
Angel, IIRC, you said you were an agnostic. That would explain why you would want to detach protestantism from Christianity and conflate with civil disobedience, then reattach that mess to Christian tradition.
To be factual & charitable, MLK applied Christian principles to civil disobedience and may in fact be or not be a Christian. That remains to be seen on Judgement Day. The admonition that Jesus gave as warning to those who would harm little children comes to mind.
So was MLK a false teacher or unweaned Christian? I dunno. But by his fruits, he wasn’t a clear-sighted Saint. From God’s point of view, leading a million from Jim Crow isn’t as important as leading one sinner to Christ. The amen choir might cheer and praise God on every “I have a dream” sound bite, but I’m told the celestial choir save their praises for each soul that is converted.
How about the Justice Brothers? Definitely not. Don’t hang that on my opinion, those two Apollos are so out of alignment with scriptures, it’s scary.
This whole “Angel does Exegesis” schtick is amusing in its cluelessness, dead wrong for seekers of spiritual Truth. So expect to be challenged and gird up your loins.
I may jest, quibble and spar with you on politics, but when it comes to letting fundamentally false teachings pass, I will punt every sleeping dog lying between me and setting the record straight.
Andy,
You win. I’m not a follower or expert on religion so I’m not going to debate you on any of that. You are beyond fanatical. Maybe you’re a satirist. I just can’t take you seriously. As far as girding my loins, that’s a little forward. And presumptious.
Andy or Vegas or whatever,
Maybe the leaders of these churches think the laws that deport hard workers back to misery and low to non-existent wages are unjust as well.
In light of this talk of civil disobedience and ILLEGAL immigration, I thought I would post this:
Romans 13:1-7
“EVERYONE must submit himself to the governing authorites, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority(breaking the law) is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment upon themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of tho one in authority? then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong(break the law), be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer(lawbreaker). Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment, but also because of conscience.”
So when a person breaks the law, they are not only breaking a civil law, but sinning against God. This applies to EVERYONE: you, me, the church next door, MLK and whoever seeks to come to this country who is not a citizen. The ONLY time we are to oppose authority or law is when it is in contrast to God’s law such as abortion.
Forward/presumptuous? With 27 instances in KJV, not at all.
Coupled with taking it seriously? See Luke 12:35 & 1 Peter 1:13.
Beyond fanatical? Only in the eyes of a sinful world that can’t distinguish between good & evil.
Yeah, come to think of it, Jesus was fanatical beyond the Pharisees/Sadducees’ ability to comprehend His simple truths. Thanks for the complement.
LibbyGirl,
How can anyone argue that statement? Someone will…
Libbygirl, amen!!!
Andy,
So now you’re comparing yourself to Jesus?
>>…if you recall the outrage about Irish immigrants back in the day, how the hell old are you?>>>
heh. I “remember” it – through my mother who remembered it. She remembered the “lace curtain shanties” from her youth in Boston.
>> There are actually waiting lists for people wanting to learn English here in Massachusetts.>>
Hah. That’s your problem! I’ve certainly heard of the Massachusetts blue bloods, but I suspect it takes on a whole new meaning these days.
By the way, if you want a cemetery plot 3 “holes” down from the Kennedy’s – or at least it _used_ to be 3 down from old Joe Kennedy unless they moved him – let me know. No way I expect to use it! Don’t want to rest that close to Kennedy’s for eternity!
>>… maybe we’ll come in and complete the job we started back in the 1800s by annexing them.>>
We could start by celebrating “ocho de mayo”…that’s the date of the beginning of the Mexican/American war – you know… the one where we took Mexico City (as in “From the halls of Montezuma”) and then signed a treaty that allowed them to keep MC and 15 million dollars and we got the southwest in exchange. You know – the southwest we paid for, but some want back as Aztlan… I haven’t heard anyone talking about a refund (plus improvements, obviously)
libbygirl;
Great points!
AS for paying my taxes (I was kidding around with Redbeard as most people probably understood), in all seriousness, I seem to recall a “render unto Ceasar…”
One of the more repugnant laws that I have ever heard is the one is which doctors and pharmacists can be coerced to participate in abortions against all of their beliefs or suffer grave consequences such as the loss of their livlihoods.
jan,
check out http://www.hotair.com. Michele Malkin presents a documentary about the results of “choice”.
suek, ditto!
Comparing myself to Christ?
Hmmm, lessee.
Inscribed on my sword are the following references to ‘like’ ‘Christ’: Act 11:17, Rom 6:4 & 11, Rom 15:5, Rom 16:5, 1Thess 2:14, 1Pet 3:21, 1Pet 4:1 & 2Pet 1:1.
Gee, I wonder where “Christ-ian” originated?
Has anyone seen the latest article about the so called victim the border agents shot? Please give me $5 million. I know I was running drugs in your country an got caught.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,271332,00.html
What makes me so angry is he actually believes what he was doing was right. His health…what about the lives of the Border Agents protecting us from him? Even though he is wrong he wants my sympathy.
dexybet, what FOX left out was that while under immunity, he was caught with another 700lbs while coming across to meet with the DA to testify.
Bush caught heat for firing 8 DAs, well, it should have been at least 9 DAs.
Will Bush pardon Scooter? Yes, & well he should. Will Bush pardon those two BPAs in jail? No, & shame on him.
There’s another one being indicted for killing an illegal who was about to stone him.
And another currently under investigation for killing yet another under the same circumstances.
Bottomline, our BPAs are being asked to wage a deadly battle with an arm & leg tied behind their backs and a ever shifting Rules of Engagement. That and even the Guardsmen sent to patrol the border get attacked.
Sounds familiar… Oh yeah, that’s the same situation that our soldiers find themselves facing in Iraq.
Is it to much to state the ROE in war thusly: When fired upon or otherwise attacked, shoot back with overwhelming force, regardless of the source. Shoot to kill or disable is your discretion.
The ROE on the border should be
1) you are invading sovereign territory, thus you are dead wrong and have no rights accorded the citizens of the US.
2) When confronted, do not resist, do not threaten.
3) One or the other could get you hurt or even killed, both surely will.
How long do you think the nonsense will last before illegals realize that it’s a bad deal all around and better to stay home? Problem solved.
As great as a disappointment Bush turned out to be, imagine how much worse it would have been with Gore, Kerry or McCain? [/SHIVER]
Andy you are 100% correct. If Gore had won we would direct all funds to combat global warming. We have to protect against global warming, it might fly a plane into the Sears Tower.
libbygirl/jan,
to paraphrase the priest’s opening comments on the wake of choice video: “Under no circumstances would I ever refer to [your choice of sin] as a selfish act. I’ve heard those who have [sinned] say they were selfish. But it is none of my business to say that…”
Pause the video.
It’s a great video and I understand where he was going with his logic, but the path to destruction began when one says in effect “Am I my brother’s keeper?”. Hence the ambiguity and confusion, not to mention the frustrations that some have with the “church”.
Somehow, I just can’t see Jesus saying something like that in recounting his counseling sessions with the adulteress about to be stoned, polygamist woman drawing water from the well, or any other heavily burdened sinner seeking refuge.
And we wonder about the splits in the Southern Baptists, Anglicans, Methodists and so on. Most of the modern day schisms began when some in the leadership were unable to call a spade a spade, and began casting about for a fairer God recast in the image of post-modern Man.
Big difference, whether founded on rock or shifting sands of moral relativity.
jan, Go ahead. Don’t pay your taxes. Mock it all you want.– angel (comment #64)
Actually, I do think it is pathetic to fork over taxes for corruption and waste and top heavy administration and programs that reward behaviors that we are trying to eliminate.
And YET, I have probably paid more in taxes than you will earn in a lifetime,and will continue to do so.
Pontificate away, Tonto…
Angel, if the Church is that concerned (and it should be) about conditions there, then they should (and some churches do) go to said homeland and work to make it better. But to flout immigration laws like they are is not nearly the same as what MLK did. If people want to come here then they need to do it the right way, like my grandparents did.
And Andy, I’m going to say that MLK was a Christian. Not perfect mind you but a Christian nontheless. Now the Pharisees Sharpton and Jackson are a whole ‘nuther thing…
Greg, definitely MLK was flawed, just like the rest of us.
I pause tho at his support of KlannedParenthood towards the end. That flip is on par with Jackson’s flop and brings me to mind of the caution against selling the soul to win the world. IIRC, there was a short span of time before he gave his support & his death, and we really have no insight on his rationale and even if he realized just what he was ’supporting’. For all we know, he may have been coming around to reversing himself before being cut off. Hence my ‘dunno’.
I know plenty of Believers believe that once saved, always saved. I tend towards the notion that one can indeed fall away, as did Ananias and his wife Sapphira (Acts 5).
Their deaths caused great fear in the Church. I don’t think the fear would have been great if they thot they had merely vacated their flawed earthly vessels and went to be with the Lord.
I think the congregation’s fear came from the realization that by insulting the Holy Spirit, the two had forfeited their salvation, hence the fear and double-checking of their own ulterior motives.
Kudos to MLK’s niece who, contrary to the rest of the King family, is a fierce and eloquent opponent of abortion and race-victimism.
But excellent point about churches doing their best ministry by going out to the ends of the world to help relive suffering and to shine the path to salvation.
Rebelling against our own laws is cheap heroics and the guilty are then stuck with the hypocrisy in their ministry of the Gospel.
Bleeding Heart Church: “Welcome to America, now go and sin no more!”
Illegal Sinner: “Thanks, but why am I still afraid of the law?”
Paul (ISV):1Ti 1:4 and occupying themselves with myths and endless genealogies. These things promote controversies rather than God’s ongoing purpose, which involves faith.
1Ti 1:5 The goal of this instruction is love that flows from a pure heart, from a clear conscience, and from a sincere faith.
1Ti 1:6 Some people have left these qualities behind and have turned to fruitless discussion.
1Ti 1:7 They want to be teachers of the law, yet they do not understand either what they are talking about or the things about which they speak so confidently.
1Ti 1:8 Of course, we know that the law is good if a person uses it legitimately,
1Ti 1:9 that is, if he understands that the law is not intended for righteous people but for lawbreakers and rebels, for ungodly people and sinners, for those who are unholy and irreverent, for those who kill their fathers, their mothers, or other people,
1Ti 1:10 for those involved in sexual immorality, for homosexuals, for kidnappers, for liars, for false witnesses, and for whatever else goes against the healthy teaching
1Ti 1:11 that agrees with the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
Jan,
Why do you assume you have paid more in taxes than I will earn in a lifetime. What do you know about me? And, what is with the Tonto thing?
Jan,
I have worked since the age of 16. I’m now 40 and have been making a more than decent living for at least 20+years and am on track to earn even more with upcoming projects.
I don’t get what made you think you could assume something like that.
Woohoo! It does my heart good to see that some people still know how to read [the Bible]! I’m royally peeved that some churches are causing moral stupidity, and I can only guess that their “pastors” have no fear of God or giving an account to Him. If it’s true that these so-called churches are losing members to real churches, then that’s a blessing. Faster please!
Found this today. What is with these millionaires and the Democratic party?? Is it the power trip? They can buy Dems but not Repubs? I don’t have confidence in _that_ one…but then, why?
http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/05/univision_voter_registration_a.html
Andy,
Your entire posting at # 89 should be the last word. Are you a minister or a student of the bible?
On immigration etc:
Found this this am. VERY long article, maybe more than one sitting to read and absorb, but worth it. Kind of puts together a lot of what’s been happening in the last 30-40 years. Quote from it below:
“Ideas about Multiculturalism and de-facto open borders have achieved a virtual hegemony in public discourse. By hiding behind labels such as “anti-racism†and “tolerance,†Leftists have achieved a degree of censorship they could never have achieved had they openly stated that their intention was to radically transform Western civilization and destroy its foundations.”
“In a culture where language is power and words are used as weapons, those who control the most fearsome of these weapons control society. In the West, where equality in all walks of life is the highest virtue and “discrimination†is a mortal sin, the “racist†is the worst of creatures. Those who control the definition of “racist,†the nuclear bomb of glossocracy, have a powerful weapon they can utilize to intimidate opponents. The mere utterance of the word can destroy careers and ruin lives, with no trial and no possibility of appeal.”
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2007/05/communism-for-21st-century.html
dexybet,
I’m actually was a blacksheep, hard-headed MK (Missionary Kid) causing my dad no end of grief. Baah-baah!
My world experience has imbued me with skepticism of others bearing sheepskins whether it be in Aviation, Divinity, Liberal Arts or any other fount of rote knowledge. My motto is if you want to know something or become an eigenvector, then be like the Bereans & question everything.
So yes, I’m a ‘casual’ student of the Bible, and a hardcore rebel against tradition
Andy,
We’re not supposed to be perfect. But I won’t judge him on just one incident. Heck if God used Paul then He can use all of us.
The Bible is pretty firm about respecting the rule of law and that’s where many of these Christians fell off the track.
Vegas,
I was talkng with my wife about her church after her service and how she is disheartened with many of the things happening in her church. She mentioned that many of the members are willingly interpreting the bible to fit each individuals point of view. Sort of looking for loopholes in the Bible.
Vegas,
if you’re referring to MLK, I’m saying “I dunno”, as in we’ll see on judgment day.
If it’s the Justice Brothers, then I’m saying with confidence they are false teachers.
Agreed, there but for the Grace of God, I could have killed a few people in my time — If you think it, it’s same as doing it. So yes, even the best of us are like filthy rags in the eyes of God & fit for the burn pit.
However, I hardly think a letter of support to an agency fully engaged in genocide is hardly “just an incident”. And far from just falling of the track, the whole civil rights movement from a Godly perspective got derailed in one lo-o-ong ongoing train wreck.
Imagine, just imagine, if MLK had something like this:
Would Roe v Wade have even come to fruition? Would millions of babies have even been exterminated since? Who are the perps who will answer for this atrocity by having a millstone tied around their necks and cast into the deepest waters?
Alveda King recounts her own two abortions and how her uncle and the rest were bamboozled by the Margaret Sanger Eugenics Project.
http://www.priestsforlife.org/clippings/2006/06-11-12-alveda-king.htm
Ironic that decades before, MS’s strategy plan included converting Black ministers to embrace & promote her project. Well, she succeeded beyond her wildest imaginations, in getting da King of the Black Community.
Granted under false pretenses. But what do you expect when dazzled by the Angel of Light? There’s a way that seemth right to Man, but the ends thereof is death!
suek,
that was an excellent link. It pretty much crystallized the notion I’ve been having lately that the liberals driving this illegal invasion are either delusional & emotional sheeple or are calculatingly cynical.
It is the latter that really hopes that Western Civilization can be upended and will use any means necesary to achieve that utopian goal. They want, fervently want, “baseball, mom & apple pie” to be banished to the ashheap of history. Since the fly-over folks are too complacent to be stirred up by class envy and other marxist propaganda, the marginalized islamist is the perfect stooge — angry, resolute & violent.
It is thru these types of immigrants that the liberal elites hope to achieve their prerequisite bloody revolution. And a new world order from which they will dictate socialist utopia.
For all their clever scheming, they ignored some fundamental laws of physics. If you’re going to sabotage a dam, you don’t do it from the base of the dam, just as you don’t cause an avalanche by dynamiting at the foot of unstable snow. They will not be able to outrun the destruction & mayhem and will be swept right along with it.
What a bunch of dangerous, self-destructive maroons.
Andy,
Do you think the Liberal Lefties will realize that they are making before it’s too late? I doubt it! Our educational system is brainwashing our youth that the way to the light is thru the destruction of the west.
That’s their master plan, created by none other than the Deceiver. Goal – take down as many with him when Jesus returns.
Example, MLK credits Lincoln & the Emancipation as significant steps towards making these self-evident truths closer to reality, afro-centric/ebonics disavows any altruistic intentions. Likewise the myth that GOP are racists and Dems are the heroes of civil rights when the opposite was true.
>>If you think it, it’s same as doing it.>>
Disagree. If this is true, then the temptation is the same as the sin. If you _will_ it, then I’d agree that it’s the same, even if something prevents. But the thought followed by a “no, I won’t do that” is _not_ the same as doing it. No matter what “it” is!
I’m the one who alerted La Shawn about what the Tulsa County Sheriff’s Office is doing to combat illegal immigration.
Let me state what I told La Shawn in my e-mail to her.
I am opposed to illegal immigration, and I would join the Minutemen if I had the opportunity to do so.
In regards to currently-illegal immigrants paying in-state college tuition, the Oklahoma legislative bill permitting the in-state tuition had strong bi-partisan support. The legislators decided to extend mercy to a group of people who were stuck between a rock and a hard place. The beneficiaries of the legislation hadn’t entered the USA by choice, and upon reaching adulthood, they were trying to comply with federal immigration laws. Not only had they grown up in Oklahoma, but some of them had no memory of the nations where they were born.
Some of the beneficiaries didn’t enter the USA illegally, but they lost their legal status upon reaching their 18th birthdays, because they were legal only as long as they were the minor children of legal immigrants. The Oklahoma legislature considered it wrong to punish such immigrants just because they became adults.
Thus, the legislation passed in Oklahoma enables newly-adult immigrants who grew up in Oklahoma to pay in-state college tuition while they work to comply with federal immigration laws. These people aren’t trying to violate federal law. They are trying to obey federal law, now that they have become adults and have the responsibility to gain legal U.S. residency.
For the sake of honesty and transparency, I need to reveal how this issue relates to me personally. My wife is a naturalized U.S. citizen who benefitted from the illegal-immigrant amnesty program enacted by the federal government during the Reagan Era (and, no, my wife is not Mexican). I don’t know any immigrants who are currently illegal. I do understand how difficult it is for immigrants to gain and keep legal residency, and I don’t want to see minor immigrants be punished because they reached their 18th birthdays.
suek, I stand corrected and concur with your point.
I was thinking of Mat 5:28 when I wrote it.
I should have differentiated between temptation, which we all struggle with, and when we exercise our hearts with ‘wicked scheming’ along the lines of Deu 15:9, Pro 23:7, Mal 2:2, Mat 9:4 & 2Pet 2:14.
“They want, fervently want, “baseball, mom & apple pie†to be banished to the ashheap of history.”
With respect, is that a citation with references, or emotional generalization/soundbyte/propaganda?
One coul deasily state: “Conservatives want America to be a fascist theocracy!” and be just as completely wrong.
I hear, overwhelmingly, condemnation of illegal aliens for our immigration challenges. It would be more appropriately to equally blame American employers (both large businesses and small businesses) for hiring illegals and our government for not enforcing existing immigration laws (including and especially the employers sanctions provisions of Reagan’s 1986 immigration bill). One would expect people of fairness to heap equal vitriol on business owners and government to go with that heaped upon illegal aliens. Our national hypocrisy is that we’ve only chosen to hold accountable the weakest in this equation, when we our efforts against illegal immigration would be more effective if we addressed the sins of the strongest.
>>One would expect people of fairness to heap equal vitriol on business owners and government to go with that heaped upon illegal aliens.>>
If the business goes out and recruits them from other lands, I’d agree. If the business makes no effort to determine the validity of legal status, I’d agree.
I don’t agree because of the following:
People are entering the country in a manner that indicates that they are _not_ legal. They don’t walk in – they sneak in. They _know_ they are not legal.
Businesses can check the papers presented (obtained illegally) and get a result that indicates the person is legal, even if they are not. In this case, they do _not_ know the employee is not legal.
I agree about the government. The feds have an obligation to secure the border – which they are not fulfilling. They are also not financially penalizing states and cities that identify themselves as “sanctuary cities” (some states treat the immigration situation as if the entire state is a sanctuary state). The state government has an obligation to enforce the law – which in many cases, they are not doing. The current governments may need to make up new laws to keep up with the situation, but they are not doing that either.
The people need to become active and recall some politicians until we get people who will enforce the law.
How do you recall someone like Villa-rigosa (of LA) when half the city of LA is immigrant? The present situation with the police is ridiculous. Who knows who’s legal to vote? is anybody checking? The enemy has taken the city. Legally.
“One coul deasily state: “Conservatives want America to be a fascist theocracy!†and be just as completely wrong.
You’re right that it’s completely wrong. Has the US ever been a facist theocracy?
Never, but I’m sure liberal elites would disagree. Take that lying Ward Churchill, please. Just because he rants about a bunch of little Eichmanns doesn’t make it so, any more than telling a lie often enough makes it true.
With regard to your question, I believe I was clear enough in stating that there are two types of liberals, those who buy in out of a truly compassionate (like MLK taken in by PP) heart and the ivory tower/limousine elites who idealize Marxism (socialism, population control etc). It is the latter that want to destroy everything that made us great in order to make us equal to the rest of the world proletariats.
Since generalization & propaganda doesn’t apply, call it a fact-based soundbyte.
We check all new hires, and do not employ illegals. Never have, never will. In addition to using our gut feelings, we get documentation from every employee, the sort we need to fill in the official I-9 form that indicates the employee’s legal status.
Ok, you might ask, now what happens? The answer is NOTHING. Those I-9 forms sit in a file cabinet, and have never, not once, not a single time, been reviewed by anyone from the government. We could have a full staff of illegals, and no one would know. Or care, judging by the complete lack of interest shown by our government.
Businesses which knowingly hire illegals should be shuttered, and the officers jailed. But someone needs to explain how this will happen, given the near-zero level of enforcement.
“With regard to your question, I believe I was clear enough in stating that there are two types of liberals,”
With respect, I simply don’t see that proven. In my experience I’ve met as many people along the ‘liberal’ shade of the political spectrum as I have the ‘conservative’ one. And there are literally millions of different ‘types’ of liberals and conservatives just as there are millions of different types of person. The human world is not divided into boxes A and B and boxes B and C.
Nothing like.
You are as human as the next human.
It’s amusing to read the comments around the political blogosphere
Liberal A: “Conservatives are evil”
Conservative A: “Liberals deny the reality of evil”
Liberal B: “Conservatives are immoral and greedy even while they thump the Bible”
Conservative C: “Liberals are hypocritical rich elites untouched by the poverty they romanticize”
Conservative D: “Liberals are usually poor and dwelling in their mother’s basement”
Liberal C: “Conservatives are fat armchair warmongers who live on cheetos and hatred”
Liberal D: “Conservatives are scared of the truth so they lie all the time”
Conservative E: “Liberals don’t care about the truth so they lie all the time”
etc.
Not targeting anyone in particular, just an observation of the many contrary things I’ve seen self-proclaimed ‘righties’ and ‘lefties’ say about each other as the ‘bloc’ is addressed for effect.
If all we dealing with are narrow, principally negative, caricatured stereotypes, then we must question not only our own motives but our own cognition.
As to marriage, it’s cool with me, case by case.
Regards,
JohnD
JohnD, of course I know there’s all shades of liberals.
With regards to liberals driving the illegal immigration, they can be divided into box A & B.
First of all, what is “driving”?
driv·ing (drÄ«’vÄng) adj.
Dictionary
1. Transmitting power or motion.
2. Violent, intense, or forceful: a driving rain.
3. Energetic or active: a driving personality.
adjective
Thesaurus
Disposed to action: active, brisk, dynamic, dynamical, energetic, enterprising, lively, peppy, sprightly, spry, vigorous, zippy. Informal snappy.
Hence, the liberals “driving” this would like to A: destroy America as we know it, a la Mexicans taking back California, rioting in the streets, etc. The Ward Churchills who believe it’s about time the chickens come home to roost.
B: feel sorry for the harsh conditions back home, so they do whatever they can to give sanctuary, not realizing that misguided compassion will lead to more chaos.
There are other liberals, but either they really don’t care/emphasize and a significant number are upset that the govt isn’t doing more to clamp down and set against amnesty, and other flavours in between. In any case, Liberals C, D – Z aren’t driving illegal immigration.
At least we concur that fears of conservative fascist theology, are just that, the fevered paranoia of the reality based swamp.
Have you heard the latest? Rosanne Barr blogged about how Mormons are secretly meeting in basements to ensure Romney wins the elections. She goes on to explain that Mormons have controlled the government for a long time.
Maybe I’m missing something here. If the Mormons already control the govt, why on earth would they need to secretly meet in basements? Yep, reality is just newspeak for wishful thinking.
And the nutroots wonder why we call them moonbats.
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