Tuesday, May 29: Welcome, Conservative Grapevine readers. This post is closed to commenting, but I’d love to hear your thoughts on Death to Pedophiles.
Sunday, May 27: Evia responds in the comment section:
“I’m Evia, and I’m opinionated, LOL! - so here goes.
“First, let me point out that I have NEVER had a bad relationship with a black man and no one can ever truthfully say that I have. My first husband was a black man and we had such a loving relationship (though different goals) until I definitely wanted to remarry. I’ve NEVER had a bad relationship with any man, for that matter. My ex-husband is actually one of my best friends and I’ve remained friends with my ex-boyfriends. So I’m not an angry, mean black woman, though some black men in cyberspace have tried to portray me as MRS. HITLER because of my efforts to remove the shackles from the brains of so many black women. LOL! This is because apparently these men see the message of my blog as a threat to them and they therefore try to discredit the blog’s message by defaming me.”
——————————————————————————————–
Attention readers: Are you a black woman interested in dating and/or marrying a white man? If so, check out Black Female Interracial Marriage, a blog hosted by Evia, who is married to a white man.
I found Evia — or rather, she found me — because she linked to my post, “Black Marriage.”
Evia says that black women need to be more open-minded when it comes to dating non-black men. Some black women have been conditioned to believe that white men don’t find them attractive, says Evia. Her blog is a refuge, of sorts, for black women to gather and discuss their desires for interracial relationships and the societal pressures of such desires (not to mention the relationships). Evia encourages black women to get out of dysfunctional relationships where they’re not appreciated and expand their dating horizons.
Like me, Evia is outspoken and says things that tend to offend a certain segment of the population. She’s been accused of bashing black men, and as far as I can tell (I visit the blog at least once a week), she stands her ground. In a recent post, she wrote:
I know that black women need a guiding light type organization or entity of some sort to begin breaking the black male chokehold of sexism that has a grip on the bulk of black women, however some black men and others in the black community feel very threatened when we talk about the need for black females to promote OUR self interests, or when we talk about how black males victimize us, or black female FREEDOM, or black male discrimination against black females based on colorism, or black male devaluation of black females in general, or the black female RIGHT to love and be loved by whomever we choose etc.
Many black men don’t defend black women or support our interests and want us to remain silent about the various ways that black men shortchange, abuse, and abandon black women and children. These black men want black women to continue to give them unreciprocated loyalty, support, and to remain focused ONLY on racism.
Of course, black men who don’t do these things to black women have no reason to be offended, right? 
The excerpt is not meant to be representative of what Evia writes, so I hope my linking to her blog doesn’t cause her too much grief. I just wanted single black women readers interested in dating and/or marrying white men to know about the blog. 
To all readers: If you date(ed) or are married across racial or cultural lines, tell us about your experiences.
STAY ON TOPIC, please.
Also see Black Women’s IR (Interracial) Circle.
(Photo credit: Renellie International)
I guess you can say that I’ve married across racial lines - I’m a white Hispanic, and my husband is half Chinese. It never mattered to us, or to our families, or our friends.
I would encourage women to KEEP AN OPEN MIND. Find a guy who treats you well, and don’t buy into the stereotypes. Demand to be treated with respect, and give it, as well.
Comment by Kim — 05.25.07 @ 10:09 am
My wife is white and of course I am black. She is the love of my life and no matter what her skin color she was the precious gift given to me by God. To us it was/is a heart issue. The wrapping we came in mattered very little.
That’s lovely.
- Admin
Comment by Jfuller — 05.25.07 @ 10:18 am
LaShawn..I am a black male involved in an interracial relationship. I for one, based on what Evia wrote, I have NO desire to keep other black females from loving or being with whom they choose. I feel we should all find a person with whom we are compatible with, and if they are a different color or race, then so be it. If you are happy, then I’m elated as well and we can all live our lives.
As for my own experiences, so far so good, aside form the occasional second takes. If anyone has a “problem” with our relationship, then they are indeed the ones with the problem. I realize not all are accepting if IR and I respect that. However, when people allow their ignorance to manifest itself and display hostility, then I have no respect for them.
There are so many misconceptions and myths about people who date IR, such as we have “sold out”, we hate our own, etc. For the most part, not true. Granted, there are those who date IR for the wrong and superficial reasons, but that’s something they must reconcile with.
Thanks again for your blog.
Comment by Gil — 05.25.07 @ 10:19 am
Inter-racial dating and marriage wasn’t a big deal where I grew up because it’s a diverse community–it’s the type of place that people can go to be accepted. But of course, there are always people who have a problem with it, so it’s not like *everyone* is tolerant about it. So if I liked a black guy, there’d be people who’d freak out, but it’s no big deal. I think if more people were open to being with different types of people, prejudice would be lessened.
I ended up marrying someone who comes from a very different background from me–he’s half hispanic, from a poor family. I’m glad I married who God wanted me to marry instead of worrying about what’s “acceptable.” My testimony is quite interesting
Comment by mj — 05.25.07 @ 10:24 am
I can attest to what has been mentioned here. My wife is black I am white. We’ve been married for 4 years now and she will sometimes ask me if I wish I had married a white woman, or a woman with “long pretty” hair. I tell her I chose her because thats what I wanted in a woman, what she had. Of course I actually believe God placed us together….
She has been conditioned by our society to believe that “white” is pretty and “black” is ugly so she sometimes/many times has self esteem issues and questions if I think she is pretty.
It’s very interesting, because in all honesty I forget that she is black. To me, she is my wife whom I love, not a black woman who I happened to marry.
She on the other hand sees “color” much more than I do, We both live in a “colored” world, but she has to live with it, whereas I only live in it. So as a white man married to a beautiful black woman, It has opened my eyes somewhat.
What’s really funny about the whole situation, is that her cousin, very liberal, can’t understand how a conservative white man would marry a black woman. She just doesn’t understand it’s not about color, at least with this conservative white man, but more about her beliefs and morals and fiber of her being.
Comment by Darin Tracy — 05.25.07 @ 10:37 am
I can’t wait to see the responses to this topic. I am sure I will learn something today.
LB - I’ve been to Evia’s blog before and while I can’t say I agree with everything she says, I do agree it’s why PAST time that black women date WHOMEVER they choose to love be they black, white, green or polka dotted.
I’ve certainly become a lot more open-minded myself.
Comment by Tiffany in Houston — 05.25.07 @ 10:46 am
I object to only one kind of ‘mixed’ marriage: Christians marrying non-Christians. The Bible is quite clear that a Christian is supposed to marry another believer.
We are all Noah’s descendants. IMHO, it’s not Biblical to add any other burdens to our kids than for them to marry someone who is a Christian, who will love them and who will work with them and be a helpmate.
As for a mixed marriage, I’m not sure if Milady and I qualify or not. She is possibly melungon, since we can definitely identify Cherokee stock (my kids could probably join the Nation in Tennessee if we could document their lineage better), and the family has that traditional “moor” look.
My grandmother’s family may be melungeon as well, since that dark skin and black hair sure doesn’t come from people from Scotland…
For being probably mixed, they’re the most racist group of people I’ve ever seen….
Being “purebred” is so overrated anyway.
Comment by Kentucky Packrat — 05.25.07 @ 11:02 am
OK, before anyone complains, I meant to say the Eastern Band of the Cheokee Nation, and they’re in North Carolina. That’s what I get for posting while also trying to eat lunch early….
I think my grandmother’s grandfather was a Cherokee. Would I qualify for membership?
- Admin
Comment by Kentucky Packrat — 05.25.07 @ 11:07 am
To Darin Tracy:
It’s not that your wife’s cousin doesn’t understand attraction between two people. It is, rather, that she doesn’t understand “conservative.” She does not dare see “conservatives” as her own moral equals, for that would destroy her world-view. That would destroy her carefully constructed self-image. She is worth loving, yet her misguided fantasies are not worth worrying about. I wish you the best with that situation.
Comment by gcotharn — 05.25.07 @ 11:13 am
Years ago, I saw the late cartoonist Al Capp on the Merv Griffin show. Someone in the audience asked him for his views on interracial marriage.
His response was, “The human race and who else?”
That about sums it up for me.
Comment by Trish — 05.25.07 @ 11:30 am
For the record, up to a few years ago my little cherubs referred to me as brown. Kids has an amazing ability to “Keep it real!” Strengthens my belief that racism is a learned behavior. BTW my children are a great expression of diversity. Scot-Irish on my wife’s side, Cherokee, Black, and whatever else on mine.
Comment by Jfuller — 05.25.07 @ 11:31 am
I am married to a black man (I am black) but I have dated white men before and it is funny that many black men will date a white woman in a heart beat but when I was dating a white man I got all kinds of negative comments (even from black men whom I know dated white women). They coukd never explain why it was a problem.
It could be because of misconceptions but from conversations and overhearing conversations I think that some black men (especially young ones) seem to see less value in black women (except their mothers) than white women.
I don’t have a problem with interracial relationships. I only become bothered when people will only date outside of their race for silly or overgeneralized reasons (black women are too bossy, black men have bad credit, etc.) If you are only attracted to others that is your business but I just wonder about people who almost seem to hate members of the group of which they are a part.
Comment by Heather in MD — 05.25.07 @ 11:39 am
While I have not personally dated anyone of a different race (I am white German-Irish mix and Catholic, in case anyone cares), two of mother’s sisters married black men. From the time I first met them, I’ve only known them as Uncle Tony and Uncle Terry. They are my family, and I love them like I love the rest of the clan. I always look forward to family gatherings, especially when I know they are going to be there.
The way I see it, God brought both couples together. Those are probably the two happiest marriages in my family. Besides my own, of course…
Comment by Jeff Lebowski — 05.25.07 @ 11:45 am
Heather, those of us with a bunch of Scotch-Irish in us have a lot of self-loathing going on. But that’s only because there are so many horse thieves and con men in our family trees.
Btw, I married outside my ethnicity; my wife’s ancestry is English. But, somehow we make it work.
Comment by RedBeard — 05.25.07 @ 11:49 am
I read her blog and I sense a feminist. There is no significant social pressure preventing black women from dating white men. She seems to be simply trying to promote it due to her negative opinion of black men which is evident by her repeated negative generalizations.
This topic reminds me of something I read that La Shawn wrote about 4 years ago. She addressed a chapter written by Reverend Peterson addressing why black women are “so meanâ€. She indicates that he mostly jokingly reasons that black women are mean because of how they are treated by black men. This is a reason commonly given by black woman and I see it as mostly an excuse (which is why I figure that he says it jokingly instead of seriously).
The reason I see it as an excuse and a lot of bull is that the very black men that many black women seem to treat the best are the very ones who treat them the worse. Black women seem to commonly, take the whole “love the bad boy (thug)†to its highest level. From my observations, it is not uncommon to see attractive white women with white guys who appear to be just regular guys. On the other hand, it appears to me that black women who are considered attractive are commonly with men who either appear thuggish or appear to be pretty boys and truly expect to have sound relationships with these men. Black men who would be considered nerdy or just regular, sound guys are given little respect and are often viewed as weak.
Comment by Shade — 05.25.07 @ 11:53 am
I wonder who will marry my sweet, beautiful biracial granddaughter some day. I hope he’s a good man and I hope he’s a Christian man. I know this much, whatever his color, he’s going to be a very lucky man.
Comment by dianne — 05.25.07 @ 11:56 am
Let’s not go off-topic on THIS post. The question on the floor is:
“If you date(ed) or are married across racial or cultural lines, tell us about your experiences.”
Answers can be variations on the theme, but I don’t want this thread to turn into a black men v. black women slingfest. STICK TO THE TOPIC.
Comment by La Shawn — 05.25.07 @ 11:58 am
Shade,
You know you are my boy but I am going to have to beg to differ with you slightly.
I think women are attracted to the bad boy/thug type guy.
I would submit in my experience, because I have always dated nice guys, that in this day and age of dating and mating that many (not all) black men, particularly if they are hard working, educated and have a mininum of children are not the least bit interested in settling down and getting married.
The odds are in their favor and they know it. They are desired by women accross the racial spectrum. And even if they do choose to date “in”, they play the field with as many ladies as they can. And a lot of these men are ‘nice’ guys.
Comment by Tiffany in Houston — 05.25.07 @ 12:02 pm
Sorry, LB. Will stay on topic.
I have not dated interracially before. But I am willing to start. I think that it takes a lot of courage to do so initially but I’m sure it comes more easily over time.
Comment by Tiffany in Houston — 05.25.07 @ 12:04 pm
Yes, I did date across “the lines” while in college. Never really considered it to be any sort of problem, then or now.
The differences were really quite inconsequential. It never went anywhere (as was my luck with most of my dating
), but not because of any superficial differences.
Comment by RedBeard — 05.25.07 @ 12:07 pm
I lived abroad for some time, hence I dated and then eventually married a Latina (whose father is black, mother white). (Unfortunately, I am soon to be divorced from her, but that’s a whole other matter!)
It’s just a personal preference of mine — I am, and always have been, very attracted to darker hued women, whether Latina, Asian or Black. I actually encountered more “hassles” here in the US than abroad regarding our relationship. [Some] people here assumed that just because she was from Latin America that she was inherently dumber (probably due to her accent). We never really encountered any “racial” hassles per se; that may be because she appears more white than black (although in the summer that changes!).
Comment by Hube — 05.25.07 @ 12:09 pm
La Shawn,
Your blog is the only one I visit, everyday. The reasons are many, and all good. But, this topic represents the main reason I was originally drawn to it.
It’s nine years now that I have been married to my awesome beautiful black wife (actually, she “belongs” to God - I just happened to have been greatly blessed that He brought us together).
I could write a book about the “experience.”
As far as the issue of attraction - race has no bearing on this with all the men I know. Beautiful is beautiful in the eyes of the beholder. What is an issue is courage - having the courage to have to potentially confront the ugly “racial issues”.
For me it’s relatively easy. I don’t give a rip what the rest of the world thinks, only God and my wife.
Comment by Dave in AZ — 05.25.07 @ 12:30 pm
I have never dated interacially before but, the last woman I asked out was of Middle Eastern decent. As a highschool student it was much easier to be in a majority Black enviroment. As an adult dating in San Diego it seems almost impossible not to date interacially unless you have a limited, segregated lifestyle. This city is very diverse, too diverse to not see people of other races that you find attractive.
Comment by Rodney — 05.25.07 @ 12:31 pm
I’m black and married to a japanese woman and have been for 7 years.
I was a bold one when it came to talking to the ladies. I’ve experienced many many refusals and denials!
My thing was, the worst they can do is say no!
When I was in college, I think I dated all the races: white, black, hispanic, asian. Whoever looked good, I was going after them. I was brotha international. Crazy..
I had great experiences. I loved it. I loved different things, diversity, all that. We would get stares from black women while walking hand in hand, but thats about it.
My mother hated it and still does not like it at all. We have had many falling outs over this one issue and its sad. I have 4 brothers, and 3 of them are with women of other races.
I say don’t let race keep you from dating if you like someone of a different race. Thats the least of your worries.
Comment by lukeNC — 05.25.07 @ 12:42 pm
My sister (we’re white) married two black men. She found out the first one had been unfaithful throughout their relationship - 5 months after the wedding.
She’s been married to my brother-in-law for many years now and they have a 4-year-old son.
Interestingly enough, his first wife was also white and they had two children together who are now teenagers. His ex also has other children, I believe they are also multiracial.
My sister has told me that she did get grief from black women about how she “stole one of their men”. She also gets funny looks when traveling with their son, like people think that he’s not hers. I think that’s part of why they live in San Diego which has a large military population and interracial marriages are more common (he was in the Navy).
They actually were friends in high school and met again years later, a very romantic story.
I think the fact that he went to a mostly white high school and that he was in the Navy gave him a different outlook. As for my sister, we just didn’t grow up around many black people. Her husband’s family was the only black family at our high school. So I’m not sure why she was more attracted to black men than white.
We do have a large Hispanic population though, even back then (Colorado). I dated several Hispanic boys with little thought to the racial differences. My grandparents didn’t like it though. Religious differences were a bigger deal. I could have never dated one of my best friends because he was Southern Baptist and I was Catholic. His parents would never allow it. And some of my Catholic relatives didn’t come to my wedding because it was in a Methodist church.
As for our family, we love them all very much, including his step-kids who are the best of friends with my kids. They just wish they could see each other more often.
Comment by Lorraine — 05.25.07 @ 12:52 pm
I lived in Hawaii for many years, and contrary to the PR they put out, it is not a sea of racial tranquility. There are strong anti-white and, to a lesser degree, anti-black sentiments.
My former boss in Hawaii was a decent man. He was blonde, blue-eyed, of Scandinavian descent. He was solely attracted to Asian women, and dated educated Asian women. He did not pick up hos. What did all the local Asian women at the office say behind his back? They ridiculed him and said he had “yellow fever.”
Another partner in the office only dated white women, because that is who he was attracted to. What did these same women say about him? They claimed he was “racist” because of his dating choices.
These poor guys couldn’t win. And I found that the most viscious bigots on this topic were, invariably, women.
Comment by Kim — 05.25.07 @ 1:04 pm
I’m a middle-aged white man happily married for over 30 years to a middle-aged white woman. During my college years, I dated a black woman for a time. It started as just a friendship because we were both Christians and discovered that we shared other interests in common. But then it developed into more of a romance. The thing that really shocked me was that some black guys — who were not bad guys but were Christians, were my friends, and one of whom actually dated my white sister — were highly offended and disapproving of this girl and I dating one another. In the end, we decided to break up because her family disapproved of me, my family disapproved of her, and we felt that we (and our children) would always be outcasts if we went ahead and married. In the 3 decades since, things in our culture have really changed for the better … not in all areas, but at least in this one area. Now my wife teaches at a Christian school serving black, white, oriental, and hispanic families. She tells me that the children don’t even bat an eye over children of mixed race. They regard as normal, as a matter of course.
Comment by larry — 05.25.07 @ 1:05 pm
Another thought… when my grandparents married, 1940, my grandmother’s family - Italian, was upset that she was marrying my grandfather - German. These days, very few people would think twice about that combination.
I think as there are more and more interracial marriages and multiracial children, we’ll all start to blend more and it will become less of an issue.
That even happened with “white” people in the US. It’s why my youngest sister and I look like our Italian grandmother, but our middle three siblings (including a blonde sister) look like our Swedish grandfather. And my youngest son has blonde hair but the other two are brunettes like me.
And I don’t know any man out there that doesn’t think Halle Berry is gorgeous (except that my eldest son wishes she had long hair again. What is it with men and long hair?).
Comment by Lorraine — 05.25.07 @ 1:06 pm
Shade you wrote: “On the other hand, it appears to me that black women who are considered attractive are commonly with men who either appear thuggish or appear to be pretty boys and truly expect to have sound relationships with these men. Black men who would be considered nerdy or just regular, sound guys are given little respect and are often viewed as weak.”
This quote shocked me because it says everything that Evia’s blog addresses. Shade chose to emphasize “black women who are attractive”, but wants them to fall for regular or nerdy black men. Does anyone else see the double standard?
Perhaps the attractive black women are choosing the thugs because they are more handsome? Superficiality can cut both ways. In her blog she has a photo of regular black women who black men would not look at twice because they aren’t “dimes”, but encourages regular black women to not sell ourselves short as men of other races might value our qualities as women and potential wives.
Black men and women, why not value the moral character, education, and quality of the black person in question, why don’t regular black men seek out their equals? Maybe regular black guys could have great marriages to regular black women and this would solve some of the black family crisis. Our people should get real about what marriages really are about! Choose partners that will raise good children rather than just whoever gets you hot and bothered!
I agree with Evia’s premise that if black women stay focused on the exclusive marketplace of black men, then we will find ourselves alone.
Comment by md94117 — 05.25.07 @ 1:32 pm
I have to agree whole heartedly with Shade. In regards to dating black women vs white women. I can speak from personal experience (which is all any one should do).
Up until 3 years ago I dressed conservative (some would say preppy). Most of the black women would not give me the time of day. The general reason was, I looked nerdy, gay, talked white (proper english) and was too nice. The white women just viewed me as a nice ordinary guy. It wasn’t until I adopted a bad boy image that I found a lot of black women more attraced to me.
Not to generalize my situation as it relates to others. The truth is even when some black women are educated and intelligent they still seem to gravitate towards that bad boy. I know of many black women who mistake kindness for weakness. I wish it weren’t so. Some black women don’t want or seek normal, decent black men out. They prefer the thrill of the bad boy.
I’m going to bring up something that isn’t talked about outside of black circles much. It may get to the heart of why a black women would HAVE to date outside her race. It’s called color-consciousness. It still rears it’s verry ugly head in black America to this very day. I dare say a lot of black women who are not able to attract black men are darker complectioned.
American blacks seem to have a hideous loathing of darker black women. I see it all the time.
When given a choice a lot of black men will take a beautiful lighter black woman over a beautiful darker black women. This risidual slave mentality causes quite a few darker black women no end in dating problems.
So it’s totally understandable if a black woman who finds herself unwanted by her own kind, seeks love and comfort from another kind. If more black men had a proper love of self and all shades of black, this would not be a issue. Sadly a lot of us don’t, so it is a issue.
Why? You may ask. Look at the culture around us. All American blacks are inundated with media images that only show lighter black women. How often do you see beautiful darker black women on tv? I’ll wait while u think about it. If you thought not often………..YOUR RIGHT!!! With this being the dominate image, black men are conditioned to want lighter black women.
So at the end of the day what do u do? Easy, love yourself. Find love where you can. If your a woman (regardless of race) and you can’t find love within your own race, look elsewhere. Life is waaaaay to short to try to solve all the ills of your race and the world.
Comment by vampiregc — 05.25.07 @ 1:46 pm
I guess it was too much to hope for that commenters would keep the discussion on topic. It’s my fault, I suppose, for allowing Shade’s comment. People are compelled to respond. Can’t rein in human nature!
Comment by La Shawn — 05.25.07 @ 1:49 pm
I’m very mixed, so I have no choice but to date interracially!
There are very few people (if any) with my exact racial/ethnic background. So I can’t afford to be bigoted and closed minded against people of other races, if I ever want to get married (not like I would want to be bigoted, of course!). Plus, my parents (while both are mixed) have different racial blends and appear to be very different from each other indeed (my dad and mom, at first glance, look like a black man and a white woman). So I’ve grown up with a high tolerance for seeing couples of mixed race. My boyfriend (hopefully someday he’ll be my husband) is a white man, I’m a tan skinned person with obvious nonwhite features, so we look very different from each other also. I have to say that from my experiences race is as big or as little of an issue in your relationship as you make it out to be. The most important thing is that both people in the relationship share the same values. And those shared values must include a non-racist perspective on other races, a true love and valuation of the person they’ve chosen, and a desire to maintain the integrity of the relationship through hard times. There are always going to be idiots looking at you cockeyed, making nasty comments, or trying to actively harm you because there are always people who are threatened by seeing two people of different races genuinely love and value each other.
In my experience my mom and dad have been married for a generation. My boyfriend and I have a very solid relationship and want to get married one day. It helps that our families have not made things difficult for us as far as the difference in race. On the contrary, everyone has been quite supportive. In my opinion, it’s one of the least of our differences. We’re far more different in political outlook (he is more liberal than me) anyway. We were raised in the same American culture, though our parents come from different ones. We’re both Christian. We love each other very much. In certain parts of the country people might burn crosses on our lawn. God have mercy on them. I wouldn’t want to live near them. My hopefully soon to be husband and I will live where we are wanted.
My experience with him has been one of the best in my life. He is a wonderful person with a soul more beautiful than even he realizes. If I had weeded him out because of something so stupid as his race I would have missed out on knowing one of the angels of my life. How stupid and wasteful that would have been. I would have missed out on a lot of happiness.
Comment by lucy — 05.25.07 @ 1:51 pm
Sorry Lashawn, thanks for posting my rant anyway.
No problem.
- Admin
Comment by vampiregc — 05.25.07 @ 1:52 pm
I am a white woman who married a hispanic man from Honduras back in 1996. I was always attracted to dark haired, dark eyed men and he was very, very good looking. But the marriage turned out to be the biggest mistake of my life. Although I was not raised to be predjudiced and have always found men from other races attractive and dated several men who were black and hispanic, I will never marry outside my race again. In the beginning, our cultural and language differences were exciting. But in the end they proved to be the downfall of our marriage. I have a new appreciation for my white, American brothers and want someone who shares my cultural heritage. That is not a racist statement - I just don’t think I could ever marry outside my race again.
Comment by libbygirl — 05.25.07 @ 2:08 pm
I am a black man. I date white women exclusively now because black women at all levels are not attracted to men like myself. This fact took years to sink in, but I haven’t been happier since I left black women behind. My longest relationship with a white woman has been 10+ years. We never married at my choice due to my health issues.
I am monagamous and quite happy. I have not encountered any color commentary, but I do socialize in middle class areas.
I have a BS and MS in Physics. My signature look is a 5.11 tactical vest with math/science/linux buttons and I actually wear a pocket protector. I am a proud uber nerd. White women love guys like me, but black women ignore men like me. I wish Black women who date/marry others the best in the world.
Comment by Dark Wing Duck — 05.25.07 @ 2:20 pm
It seems to be more helpful that two people are from the same or similar culture rather than the same race. As with my boyfriend and my parents, each pair is from different races but from similar or the same culture.
Comment by lucy — 05.25.07 @ 2:20 pm
I am white and was born in a small, 99% white town. I had white friends and knew very few people of color. My first wife was the stereotypical “blond haired, blue eyed” cheerleader type. I never gave anyone outside of my race a second look.
Before that marriage fell apart, we moved to the Piedmont area of NC and I was exposed to a rainbow of ethnicities and my eyes were opened.
After that marriage fell apart, I realized I was truly attracted to women of other ethnic blends. I went out on a blind date with a black woman who was looking for white male but it did not lead to anything…no chemistry. I was blue collar and I think she was looking for someone a little more refined than I was at that time.
A couple of years later I was introduced to a lovely Christian Latina (mother born in Mexico, white father in the military) whom I married 1.5 years later. Race has NEVER been an issue with us.
I was not a Christian when we met, but I am today. Now that the blinders are completely removed, I have seen a lot of blended families…even at our small country church. I think that is what has made our relationship special. We love God, each other and surround ourselves with open minded Christian people who love us.
Comment by El Gee — 05.25.07 @ 2:46 pm
Dated is a bit too ’strong’-years ago I went out for dinner with a lady who is black-I’m white-and we both felt a bit uncomfortable. We were both young, sarcastic, and stationed together in the Coast Guard. To give you an idea of how long ago this was, “Carbon Copy” starring George Segal and Denzel Washington had recently been in theaters, and we joked that that was the movie we should have seen. La Shawn, I can’t think of a more “on-topic” movie than that.
Comment by Doug — 05.25.07 @ 2:57 pm
LaShawn:
My two cents: I am white and was married to a black woman for more than 15 years. We did not have any difficulties with family acceptance, quite the opposite in fact. Both of our families fully accepted and welcomed our relationship and marriage. We did get the occasional rude look or comment from strangers - I remember a white guy at a restaurant who gave us a look of cold hostility for over an hour. Made it kind of hard to eat and have normal conversation. Another time some black kids said “I can’t believe…” to my wife while we walked together down a street. For me it was sort of an exercise in sentence completion: she told me they meant “…that you’re with a white guy”. This kind of thing was few and far between, so it never really bothered us that much. Anyway, we are no longer married, but that is another story and outside of the subject. We have a mixed race teenaged son, and as another commenter noted, this seems to be much more common these days - more than a few of his classmates at school are of mixed ancestry as well. Still, it’s the exception rather than the rule. Fortunately, there’s no longer the social stigma associated with interracial relationships as there was a generation or two ago, and thank goodness. Heck, in my grandparents day, an “interracial marriage” was an Irish - Italian thing - heaven forbid!
I’m glad our society has moved along a bit.
Comment by BobM. — 05.25.07 @ 3:01 pm
“Shade chose to emphasize “black women who are attractiveâ€, but wants them to fall for regular or nerdy black men. Does anyone else see the double standard? ”
Nope. The issue is that lots of white women *like* regular, nice, even nerdy guys (the last being very fortunate for me.) HI have no direct experience, but it sounds like Shade is saying that, given equal attractiveness to give them a choice in mates, black women are more likely to *choose* the exciting bad-boy over mr. boring-but-solid than white women are.
Comment by Ralph Phelan — 05.25.07 @ 3:03 pm
Some years back in San Jose dated a black woman named “Tricia.” In all honesty I took the opportunity because I knew very little about African Americans, and hoped to gain some inside information.
I enjoyed Patricia’s beauty, company, sense of humor, and family. But problems arose. Found many black men on the street taking three and four glances back at us–and believe me they were not friendly.
In addition, on several occasions we attended dances where white people predominated. The mocking was not easy to ignore, but on one occasion we were literally bounced off the floor by other dancers.
All of this presented problems. But perhaps the fundamental reason our sweetheart romance ended is the following. At the time I had divorced and was struggling to buy out ex wife of her portion of a small house on several acres in the Sierra Nevada. It was my dream to one day settle there.
Tricia had no use for that kind of living, asked me to sell out to the ex wife and use the money for a trip to the Bahama Islands. The racial attitudes of black and white were not helpful, but this is what ended our romance.
Sincerely Chris
we
Comment by Christopher — 05.25.07 @ 3:42 pm
I am a black woman who has dated interracially — Latino — and who has many white male friends. I read Evia’s blog regularly, and I’m glad that black women now realize they aren’t limited in their dating choices, and they don’t have to feel like they’re being “disloyal” to black men for desiring interracial relationships. I live in L.A., and most of my black female friends are either dating or married to white men. It’s like a “Something New” movement!
I used to be one of those black women who would give BM/WW couplings dirty looks, but that was because I felt threatened by these unions, and because I believed white woman represented a standard of beauty and desirability that I could never attain. Thank God, I’m over that, and am free to be in a loving and healthy relationship, regardless of my partner’s race.
Comment by Nicole D. Sconiers — 05.25.07 @ 3:58 pm
Yes Ralph Phelan, that is exactly what I’m saying.
As for me, I have been happily married to a black woman for 15 years. Before that, most of the women I dated were black, but I did date other races occasionally. Unfortunately, my memory is hazy regarding any real unique experiences but I do recall a few bad looks from black women. For the most part it was no big deal but I do think that there is a certain comfort in being with someone who shares much of your “cultural” experience.
Comment by Shade — 05.25.07 @ 4:39 pm
I dated inter-racially. It was no big deal for me. One ended because she couldn’t take her family’s comments. Another was hooked on an ex. They were white. I dated a Puerto Rican. That was no big deal and ended because it wasn’t right. The majority of the women I dated and had relationships with are Black.
I have no problems with inter-racial dating. In the end, it’s none of my business. There are more important things to worry about.
However, I’ve read that site before and it left me VERY uneasy. If you date inter-racially, “just because,” that’s one thing. From that site, I get the impression that she is encouraging Black women to date white men because “Black men ain’t no damn good.” Now, that is another thing and I have problems with that. Just like I had problems with a white woman who wanted a relationship and said she only dated Black men because of the rhythm Black men had, and not just on the dance floor.
Comment by DarkStar — 05.25.07 @ 5:13 pm
1971, flying helicopters to the oil rigs in Cameron, La, got into a discussion with another pilot over a Sunday suppliment article on white U.S. women who married African rulers. This person was going off on all the stereotype bigotries, while I defended their right to make their own choises. While flying a mission, someone informed him my wife was Vietnamese. On my return, he went on how my marriage was different. I told him truthfully that I did not take his prior remarks personally, but I was interested how my marriage could be considered different. And now what I think is great, my half Vietnamese son (who resembles his Mom much more than me) is marrying a filipino girl. I can’t wait to see the kids.
Jim
Comment by Jim Piper — 05.25.07 @ 5:37 pm
DarkStar–yeah, I’m wary of people who will only date people of a specific race for superficial reasons. I personally won’t date anyone who tells me that they have a thing for redheads: I’m a person, not a fetish! I want someone to want to be with me because I have many wonderful intellectual and spiritual qualities, not because I sunburn easily. I don’t want to feel like anyone with red hair would “do the job,” I want them to want me specifically.
Back to La Shawn’s question…I’ve dated a black man and a Puerto Rican man. Both men I’d gotten to know over a couple of years due to shared interests before we started dating. When I introduced Jose to my mother, she asked him what country he was from (he was from Chicago), but her best friend’s daughter had just married a man named Jose who was from Spain but they’d met in Mexico and she’s easily confused….anyway! Our relationship ended when he met another woman, but that’s how all my relationships with white men end, too! The other relationship ended because of distance; he didn’t want to move to Iowa (who can blame him?) and I couldn’t find work in his state.
Reactions from strangers? In Iowa there’s still a stigma associated with white women dating non-white men, which is just redirected fear or envy of stereotypes of black men. The only time anyone said anything to my face was when I was showing pictures of my sister’s wedding to some people from work, and one of them looked at one of me and Joe (who was black) and said (I’ll never forget this), “OH. I didn’t know you were one of THOSE.” One of what? “You know. You date black guys.” I said, “I didn’t know people still thought that…”–I mean, it’s 2005–and shrugged it off, but I think it was the first time I’d thought of him as “Joe, the black guy” instead of “Joe, who by the way is black.” And that still disturbs me.
Comment by Radish — 05.25.07 @ 6:20 pm
Latino married to a wonderful black woman for 28 years. No problems with either family. I remember getting looks from some black men. But I always thought that if they have a problem too bad, it is not an issue for me. I’ve never asked my wife if she wished she would have married into her own race. This would be insulting and I know that we are both happy with our choice. So to answer your question Ms Barber, I have a good experience.
Comment by gecko — 05.25.07 @ 6:28 pm
La Shawn, I’m sorry about the tangent, but since the first post was allowed, I have to address the topic.
I have read Shade’s thought that Ralph’s interpretation of his comments are accurate. Sounds more like CYA to me.
As a regular black woman, who is herself nerdy, I know that you aren’t looking for us. That’s why I’ve started dating outside the race too.
Ironically, this discussion reminds me of an encounter that highlights my point. I had the pleasure sitting on this dynamic of nerdy black man wants a 10 and found it fascinating. I have a light, biracial beautiful friend “Skye” who is new in town and another very attractive black female friend “Carol”. Skye is looking for a job, so Carol was kind enough to work her connections by arranging coffee with “Carl”. Carl, a nerdy, but successful black man who owns his business and might be looking for an assistant. Carl took one look at Skye who is a real 10, and rather than help her network for a job, he wanted to date her. What I didn’t know was that this fellow had previously tried to date Carol, but she really does prefer bad boys, so she pushed him to the “too nice, too nerdy for me pile”. I loved watching Carl waste yet more time trying to score with “Skye” who isn’t the least bit interested because he’s also not her type (a tall fitness and gym guy would work best).
I, the third wheel, nerdy and nice looking, but not a “10″ gal could see this man as the type of person I could date, but he was too smitten with those who are out of his league and disinterested in his nice guy persona. In the end, I laughed at the irony that he passes over regular black women only to be ignored by the “dimes” he thinks are in his league. He’ll probably stay alone until he finds a white women who fits his beauty standards that will date him while the regular black women continue to be overlooked. In the meantime, he deserves to be alone.
If some nerdy regular black men act like Carl and place attractiveness above all else in a women, that’s sad.I believe this example best describes part of the marriage crisis in our community. Peoples’, especially black men’s, expecations are too hig for anyone to be good enough.
I believe this irony is exactly the point that Evia’s blog is making. Black women have to date outside the race to find the men who don’t have to have a Beyonce look alike in order to value a good black woman. Black women’s loyalty to black men leaves the men with all the cards, so nerdy black men can feel entitled to Beyonces rather than a basic good black women who treats him well. This will leave lots of us regular black women without husbands and families.
Comment by md94117 — 05.25.07 @ 6:59 pm
I have not dated a black woman … yet. I have been drawn to several wonderful black women over the years but have yet to go beyond flirting. I find this approach to this topic very unique and intriguing.
Comment by Randy — 05.25.07 @ 7:10 pm
As a white male, I’ve never dated non-white women. I’m not against the idea in any way, I’ve just never had the opportunity. I’ve met very few non-white women in my social circles. At college, the black students tended to segregate themselves. Now that I’m in grad school, most of the women I meet are either Chinese or Indian (mostly non-Christian, sadly). I think I’ve met one black female since I’ve been in grad school, and she was already married.
For whatever that’s worth.
Comment by Hal — 05.25.07 @ 7:11 pm
“Nope. The issue is that lots of white women *like* regular, nice, even nerdy guys (the last being very fortunate for me.) HI have no direct experience, but it sounds like Shade is saying that, given equal attractiveness to give them a choice in mates, black women are more likely to *choose* the exciting bad-boy over mr. boring-but-solid than white women are.”
Not true, there are lots of blogs where guys go on and on about how white women want Alpha males and do not like nerdy guys.
Comment by leila — 05.25.07 @ 7:38 pm
Well, I married an exquisite white man and I still catch my breath when I see him. He is funny, he is smart, he is loving, he is humble, and he is everything a woman could ever want in a man.
My kids have dated/married men from other races and, quite frankly, it was just so normal a way of life overseas that it didn’t strike us as worth a conversation, even. Because everyone in our world was on the same social strata, race dropped out of the picture and the kids focused upon worthwhile junk. It wasn’t until we returned to the US that we realized that there was so much racial angst and hostility and sheer stupidity. People have become SO sensitive that they take offense where none was given and people are stepping on eggshells.
Lastly, I thought that md94117 made a GREAT point. Are the nerdy men feeling miffed that the 10’s aren’t interested in them or are they, in fact, rejecting nerdy women?
Comment by jan — 05.25.07 @ 8:36 pm
An interracial marriage to me is like any other marriage. Marriage is a union between one man and one woman. If a black woman marries a white guy, it doesn’t do anything pro or con for my life. As a black male, I’m not the overseer of the black race. The first interracial marriage I’ve known of was that of Moses. God didn’t condemn him because of his wife, so people need to grow up a bit and mature.
Comment by Tyrone — 05.25.07 @ 10:26 pm
I regularly datewomen of varying ethnic groups and while each and every group has had individuals more interested in causing us trouble directly or indirectly solely based on our differences, I believe that the differences between us taught me a lot about people, and even about myself.
I can’t even imagine restricting myself to dating in only one ethnic group/skin color.
My restriction is that she be a faithful Christian. Beyond that while I do have my physical preferences, I won’t restrict myself to only considering them.
I will say that in each interethnic relationship I’ve been in, somebody at some point, and usually more than once, has brought up the topic of our ethnicity and called it a problem.
Comment by Mark La Roi — 05.25.07 @ 11:05 pm
I’ve not really had real dates or relationships at all, for reasons neither here nor there (well actually, due to dedication to spicy chicken sandwiches from Wendys and a lifetime of consuming junk food i should not consume, thus leaving my taste in women far above my ability to attract them. Oddly, like a bird flying into a glass window, I refuse to adjust my sights down to the appropriate level… but that’s off topic).
However, I’ve always liked most women, though my tastes usually run either hispanic or white (black here). But that is more a function of not being in a lot of places with many black females and I often wonder if I should move to an Atlanta or some other black mecca.
In the end all women have qualities I like, and I can’t look down on anyone seeking love. That is the thing. Love is so very important, yet hard to find. It’s not a matter of liking a white woman, or needing a redhead, or wanting a voluptuous black woman. The sole consideration should be love, and finding someone who you can connect with. I’ve no problem with black women looking for that love. That’s precisely what the world needs. What we all so desperately need.
Comment by Finn — 05.25.07 @ 11:13 pm
Darin Tracy, you are awesome! Do you have a brother?
Comment by Shannon — 05.25.07 @ 11:25 pm
Well, speaking for myself I think it was inevitable that I would one day fall for a black woman. I hit puberty right when the original Star Trek series went into syndication.
Comment by Magoo — 05.25.07 @ 11:58 pm
I have read Shade’s thought that Ralph’s interpretation of his comments are accurate. Sounds more like CYA to me.
Sounds like you don’t want to accept your total misrepresentation of my point as well as how you skirted around that particular point.
As a regular black woman, who is herself nerdy, I know that you aren’t looking for us. That’s why I’ve started dating outside the race too.
As a man married to a woman who easily fits the description of a nerd, I say that you are wrong. One personal example is as good as another right?
Understand that there is little difference between what white men look for in women and what black men look for in women. This is quite possibly why so many black men chase after white women. Don’t even try to imply that white men pay less attention to looks. Practically all men put priority on looks, yet it is us black men who are less turned off when our women put on weight and are much more inclined to find larger sized women appealing.
Men prioritize looks. Women are materialistic. Two different forms of shallowness. But don’t try to make it seem that prioritizing looks is a black male thing, because that is just being dishonest.
What’s funny is that your claim that white men are dating black women that black men won’t date is contrary to popular opinion. The popular opinion is that black men date white women that white men won’t date while white men, when dating black women, tend to date those black women considered the cream of the crop. The popular opinion is what I’ve observed.
How about telling your friend to post a picture of Eddie George and Taj on her blog. That is an example of a famous black man who marries a black woman who by most standards is not considered very physically attractive (though she has a sweet personality). How about Larry Holmes’ wife of nearly 30 years. Very average looking woman. Denzel Washington’s wife. I could go on.
Who you date is your business. It’s your life, not mine. But when you participate in a rallying cry that involves convincing black women that they are better off without black men (which is basically what is being done), I see that as lame and hypocritical. I have black sons who will already have to grow up in a world where they will be prejudged. Why make it worse?
Comment by Shade — 05.26.07 @ 12:01 am
La Shawn, do you have any such experiences?
And Tiffany #18.
I see your point. I figure we have to see it as a two way street as opposed to one gender pointing the finger at the other.
Comment by Shade — 05.26.07 @ 12:16 am
I dated a black woman for a while back in the 90’s. Under the skin she was just as nutso as her white sisters (I must attract them).
Race was a bigger topic for her than for myself as she always seemed to steer the conversation towards it. I finally came to the conclusion I was her “token white boy”, especially after we had a conversation where she claimed Larry Bird never should have played basketball because white men weren’t physically capable of taking the punishment of the sport (I’m serious!).
I relayed that conversation to a black coworker (a man known for his inherent distrust of whites) he looked me square in the eye and said, “Pete, that woman is just a damned racist!”
Hey, I figured if anyone would know it would be him.
Broke up with the woman shortly after that.
As Kipling said,”The Colonel’s lady and Judy O’Grady are sisters under the skin.”
Comment by Subvet — 05.26.07 @ 1:16 am
I am a 47 year old Caucasian woman who was born and raised in Virginia. My mother was a native Virginian and my father was Canadian. My ethnic heritage is Irish, English, Dutch, and French Canadian. In 1979, only ten years after our local school system officially desegregated, I married an African American man. His ethnic heritage includes indeterminate African nationalities and some Native American ancestry which was unofficially reported to be Cherokee and Blackfoot.
My family was comfortably upper middle class, professional, and in no way religious. His family was struggling lower middle class, blue collar, and very ‘socially’ religious. We both grew up in the same county and our families were respected in the area, but of course did not interact in any way. In high school, both of us were academically gifted, both of us played musical instruments, and both of us were athletes. However, I played my flute privately while he played in the high school band. I competed successfully in equestrian sports outside of school life while he was a star football player, wrestler, and pole vaulter on high school teams. He was my first love; I had not so much as dated any other young man. Our relationship and subsequent marriage was very controversial for that time and locality. My family did not attend our wedding ceremony and, for a period of time, disowned me.
Interestingly, my husband and I experienced very little outright discrimination or public harassment. My husband had joined the Navy with a deferred enlistment while in high school and the one instance that I do remember occurred at Fort Benning, Georgia. We were walking along on base when a car of white males passed us, calling him names. They did not slow down or stop. We found that military culture, in general, seemed to be more accepting of marriages that crossed ethnic/racial/cultural boundaries.
During the first couple years of marriage I attended college, but orders to Italy cut my education short. We were stationed in Sicily and had just arrived when I found out I was pregnant with our first child. Although my immediate family not communicating with me, I had an aunt who was still writing me. She claimed that she still loved me and wanted to be my friend. When she found out I was pregnant, though, she wrote me a scathing letter telling me that what I was doing was monstrous and that I shouldn’t bring ‘that kind of child’ into the world. I was stunned; it was like a knife to the heart. That incident was one of the most painful I can remember. Thankfully, there was the entire Atlantic Ocean between me and my family! It turned out to be a blessing that both our families were so far away because it allowed me to discover, unhindered, the kind of parent I wanted to be.
I must note that eventually my parents reconciled to the fact of my marriage and actually sent some gifts for their grandchild just before my due date. When they finally met our son they fell in love with him. Ironically, my four living children were the only grandchildren they ended up having! My three siblings elected to have no children.
My husband and I were married for almost ten years, but personal problems, the death of our second son just before birth, and infidelity led to the breakdown of our relationship. We had two living sons at the time of our divorce. On the rebound and not thinking clearly, I remarried. My second husband was also black and a former Navy friend of my first husband. I never considered a relationship with any white men because I was afraid of the repercussions for my multiracial sons. My second marriage produced two children, a son and a daughter, but after seven years of struggle I separated from my second husband.
Personal, racial, cultural, and extended family dynamics definitely played a part in the demise of both my marriages. I don’t wish to go into details and I do want to say that most marriages are not unilaterally destroyed. I accept my share of the blame.
If I could go back in time and do things differently, would I? Would I have charted a different course or married within my race? I can’t answer that question because to say I wouldn’t have married the men that I did marry would be to say that my children are mistakes. My children are the deepest blessings of my heart and are my beloved legacy to this sad, tired world. But because of my experiences with their fathers, the only two men with which I have ever had relationships, I have elected to remain alone. Whatever there is wrong with me (and I am sure there is plenty) I would never choose to be involved with a black man again. I don’t think I could bring myself to trust any man, black, white, or otherwise.
Sorry for the ramble.
Comment by Renee P — 05.26.07 @ 1:24 am
I am a white American man married to a black African woman, so in a certain sense our experience is probably not typical of white Americans who marry black Americans. If there is such a thing as “typical experienceâ€, that is.
But there was one incident that happened while we were still living in her country that I have never forgotten. A white American woman came to visit the school that I was teaching at, and upon seeing us she remarked that (in her opinion) interracial marriage was the only hope for overcoming racial prejudice.
I have heard that remark many times since then, and I have never been offended by it. But I did not marry my wife in order to “overcome racial prejudice”. That was not even a tiny part of it.
I married my wife because she was a beautiful Christian woman. I could not imagine living without her any more that I could imagine living without oxygen. She is that vital to me.
The woman’s comments reminded me of that truly awful movie Guess Who’s Coming To Dinner?. The actors in the movie were top-rate, but the plot was so thick with condescension that I felt the movie was ruined (for the record: my wife loved the movie!). The notion that “love conquers all†sounds nice, but in reality marriage is hard work as well as love. It requires patience, dedication, and a willingness to bend and not insist on your way all the time. Most of all, it involves putting your spouse’s needs first. If you are not willing to do that, then marrying someone – whether they are “outside your culture/race†or not - is a waste of time.
A modest rant: If anyone is planning to enter into a relationship or marriage with a person of a different race/culture just to prove some obscure political point, I beg you - don’t! Do yourself and your would-be partner a huge favor and find someone else. Campaign slogans and protest speeches make poor marriage vows.
I will not negatively judge someone who finds members of another race/culture attractive. We all have reasons why we find someone desirable. I find my beautiful wife very attractive! There are other black women that are attractive (as well as white and Asian women), while others I do not desire in the least. I do not think attraction is meant to make sense all the time.
La Shawn, I hope that these comments of mine are on-topic - or nearly so. And thanks for the link!
Comment by Mwalimu Daudi — 05.26.07 @ 1:37 am
Well, LaShawn, you sure like to stick to bland topics … NOT!
I’m female, black, and conservative; my husband Bear is male, white, and possibly even more conservative than I.
We met on CompuServe in 1987, and have been together since 1989. Both our families gave us grief at first, of different sorts. His mother told him not to come back home if he moved in with me; his response was “Okay.” She backed down a couple of years later, and now, after all these years, his mother and I have a mutually respectful relationship that is definitely improved by distance.
My family already had experience with an interracial marriage before I married my Bear; one of my male cousins married a white woman 20-some-odd years ago. But — at least in my family — the black man-white woman “thang” is more accepted than the black woman-white man pairing. The Bear and I are seen as an odd couple by my kin; my cousins bemoan the fact that I don’t hang with the family more. Heck, they live 90 miles away, and I *am* hanging with my family — I’m hanging with my husband!
Comment by RoseBear — 05.26.07 @ 2:23 am
I’m the product of a black man and a white woman and for all intents and purposes (in this country) am still black. My mother’s family were against marrying my father because he was black (this was in the early 80s), and were even against me being born, but once I was born, I instantly charmed them my way (no one can really hate babies) and have been part of the family no different than anyone else since. I’m a mixed (or black man, this is America) engaged to a beautiful Jewish woman (racially semitic, racially white, not religiously Jewish but was raised that way).
I’ve never dated anyone because of race, and race has nothing to do with me being with someone. I don’t see my girlfriend as Jewish when I’m with her, and very little when I think about her for it’s only when I think of culture do I think about her being raised in a Jewish household. My family is just fine with me dating whomever, but my fiancee’s family have for so long married other Jewish people. The immediate family has no problem with it, but the older family may see it as a branching out from their usual ways. My reason for being with her has nothing to do with her race, culture, or people, but because she is the love of my life. Besides, Jewish people are a very multiracial and cultural people anyway because of where so many haved lived and married in the many different countries around the world that it’s not a new concept but is actually a very old one to them.
Personally, I have an African, French, Irish, Scottish (McLaughlin line), old British, Navajo, and Cherokee background, and who knows what else. I’m pretty racially and culturally diverse across the board and so will our kids be even more so. I’m glad for that though, and not because I think they’ll have an easier life (because they’ll have their parents to look up to), but because they will gain an appreciation in society for what it means to be a bit of everything, even if it means taking the good with the bad.
Comment by CStJDelano — 05.26.07 @ 5:00 am
Ok, I’ll admit I skipped reading posts after 45.
I am a white boy whose grandparents were missionaries in the Belgian Congo for 31 years.
Growing up in the midwest I dated white, black, (partly) indian, bi girls and Girls of slightly hard to tell mixes. In other parts of the world I dated several other types. I know of white ladies who wanted the tough guy, asian, hispanic, and black ladies who also fell into that type. Do not think that it is related to race. Feel sorry for those ladies because of what they end up with.
Have been impressed with ladies of all the races I have known, and have been less than impressed with ladies from the races. Have not dated men of any of the races, but have been priviledged to know people from all walks of life.
I happen to think that women are just great. Am priviledged to share my life with just one woman and happen to beleive that one woman is all a man needs. Does not mean in the least that I do not enjoy the company of other women, just that I am married and faithful to my wife.
Growing up in a family where my dad was bigoted and my mother was not was at times difficult. When I was young thought my dad was right. As I grew up it became obvious that it was not that simple. There were no blinding moments that told me the truth, but there were lots of things that made me understand that it is the human race.
How do you tell class, or, my impression of it? A black girl I dated while in one of the colleges I went to was obviously from a higher class family than I was. Happen to think that my own ancestors were of a fairly high class as well. Met people in Japan and korea who were as impressive as any others I have met.
Why should you or I or anyone else worry about who date whom? The only thing that is important is learning to succeed at the toughest of all human relationships. Marriage.
Have attended three different colleges and two prisons. Have taught school, been a hippie, and worked with my hands with wood, concrete and steel. Am astonished with awe over the chance to live in this mortal life with such a wide array of wonderful individuals.
It don’t matter what race you take to wife if you can work together at it.
Comment by Creative dude — 05.26.07 @ 9:40 am
As a basic white guy who has dated black women more than white women I often get asked why I date black women. My honest answer is, “Dunno, really, i just find them attractive.”
Comment by gordo — 05.26.07 @ 2:31 pm
All I can say is that I am impressed that so many of you conservatives who are continually portrayed as “racist” (by virtue of your economic ideology) are so open to sharing your lives with those of other races.
Comment by jan — 05.26.07 @ 3:55 pm
I’ve never been involved in an IR relationship. Haven’t really dated, period (which I won’t get into here). I’ve not found myself attracted to black men, but have found myseld attracted to Hispanic and Asian guys on occasion. Don’t have a problem with people involved in IR relationships. One summer, long ago, I was in Germany for the last time (dad was stationed there), and I was dating a GI. We were at the EM club on base one night, and he said something about a “mud shark”. I never heard the term before. He pointed out a couple in which the man was black and the woman was white. I was shocked at that kind of comment. It was just a “summer romance” and was never “serious”, and it’s probably just as well…
Comment by Miss Ladybug — 05.26.07 @ 4:01 pm
(close enough to topic, I hope)
My cousin married a wonderful Eritrean woman. To my knowledge, their relationship never caused any problems in either family.
Their wedding was a complete joy: a combination of the typical American Christian wedding and the customary Eritrean ceremony, mashed into a quite memorable weekend. Both sides of the family see not an inequality, but rather a joining/blending of two families into one - and all are blessed because of it.
(And let me add my congratulations to the two of them, since they just found out that they are expecting their first child!)
Honestly, as a Christian, I don’t see how I could ever oppose inter-”racial” relationships. If, as a Christian, I believe the Biblical account of creation (Adam and Eve) and of the Flood (Noah and his sons), then I cannot believe anything except that I share a common ancestry with those of a different “race” than mine.
(I don’t believe in separate human “races”; I believe in one, human race.)
Comment by Chip Bennett — 05.26.07 @ 5:37 pm
I had actually gone to Evia’s site about 6 months ago and I shot her an email praising her site and told her that quite a number of my black girlfriends are married to white guys. I am white, married to a white man, but my first boyfriend was black. I suspect if I was a white man I probably would have at least dated a few black women. It’s all about personality with me.
I don’t really think there is such a thing as race anyway. I see the only real barriers between people are cultural and ideological.
Comment by Christine — 05.26.07 @ 8:10 pm
I wholeheartedly agree with the comment by #66 gordo Dunno, really, i just find them attractive. Kudos! I’m in the same boat!
Comment by CK — 05.26.07 @ 8:52 pm
I’m Evia, and I’m opinionated, LOL!–so here goes.
First, let me point out that I have NEVER had a bad relationship with a black man and no one can ever truthfully say that I have. My first husband was a black man and we had such a loving relationship (though different goals) until I definitely wanted to remarry. I’ve NEVER had a bad relationship with any man, for that matter. My ex-husband is actually one of my best friends and I’ve remained friends with my ex-boyfriends. So I’m not an angry, mean black woman, though some black men in cyberspace have tried to portray me as MRS. HITLER because of my efforts to remove the shackles from the brains of so many black women. LOL! This is because apparently these men see the message of my blog as a threat to them and they therefore try to discredit the blog’s message by defaming me.
I’m a black womanist who sees that black women are losing at the romantic relationship “game” so far because they’re not using all of their cards and many are not using their high cards at all. They’re allowing their youth and beauty to be frittered away in disastrous relationships. Most black woman have been INDOCTRINATED with the notion that they should sacrifice themselves for the good of black men and the black community and not play the romantic relationship game to win because it’ll make black men feel bad or unsupported. LOL!! We can certainly see that no other group of women are hampered by such self-defeating notions, and this is why so many black women remain alone and/or broken hearted, as well as used and abused.
And as for so called “nerdy” black men, many, many of them are only looking at black women who they consider “dimes.” There are many “nerdy” or I’d rather call them “brainy” black women who are most definitely looking for men of their caliber. I, for one, LOVE brainy men and that’s one of my requirements for a man. I can assure you that lots of intelligent black women avoid thugs like the plague. Both of my husbands have certainly met the brainy criteria. Sure, ALL men want beautiful women, but I’ve observed that all other groups of men find a WIDE variety of women in their group to be desirable for commitments/marriage.
For years, I’ve paid special attention to who white, African, and African American men find desirable and who they pursue and marry. To me, it’s TOTALLY ridiculous and shameful for “colorstruck” African American men to CONTINUE to blame the media for their preference for lighter and white women. This results in widespread discrimination against darker black women with nappy hair, yet many black men still expect these darker black women to be loyal to them. They should be ashamed! Blaming the media is such a copout! Yes, white men and women control the media, but why are grown black men allowing white folks to do their thinking for them, especially in this most critical area? Despite the negative portrayal of black men in the media, MOST black women STILL give most black men high points. Is there anyone reading this who can honestly say that most African American men give most women in their group high points?
I repeat: Many “nerdy” black men as well as most others of them prefer/want black women who are light-skinned “dimes” (aka Beyonces) and will pursue these women all around the planet. Black women see black men slobbering over women like this all of the time. However, many of these nerdy black men will settle for a regular or less than regular looking white or other woman because they apparently consider ALL of these nonblack women to have “dime” status. This is all so obvious to everyone but black men themselves. And shameful.
Let me make it clear that I certainly don’t blame the Beyonces out there or any white or other woman for the behavior of colorstruck black men because it is NOT the fault of any of these women.
La Shawn, thank you for posting my comments. I will not come back to respond to my comments here. If anyone is interested in clarification of any portion of my condensed stance on these issues presented here, they can always visit me on my blog.
Comment by Evia — 05.27.07 @ 9:38 am
I know that black women need a guiding light type organization or entity of some sort to begin breaking the black male chokehold of sexism that has a grip on the bulk of black women
Well Lashawn,
I am not going to take this snippet and say that her site is black man-bashing, but I am not seeing how a lot of her arguments are tied together. As a black man I have struggled with being embarassed by the behavior of my peers as well as struggled with having to prove to people I am not a drive-by shooter or thug simply because of my color. So, I understand that sometimes good black people find the dating seem to be somewhat difficult. As a child, I made good grades and spoke properly, therefore I was labeled as a “nerd”, and wanting to “act white”…unfortunately there were not a lot of “dimes” on the horizon, my nerdiness notwithstanding. Black women opening themselves to good men who will treat them well from other racial groups is fine. But it seems that the meme is, “black men are so trifling, therefore this is what I am going to do.” I am not saying that she is necessarily making black men the scapegoat for everything wrong in the black community, but there seems to be an air of finger-pointing. Truthfully statistics will show you that black men as a collective are not faring well in education, the job market, and staying out of the criminal justice system due to our own behaviors. However, there are many problems that are rooted in the decline, or should I say the dissolution of the black family. One of my older sisters dates a white man, and has dated white men in the past. She is an M.D. and I thought that it was because of her work and social circle that she dated whites primarily. I have never heard her vocalize that there were no suitable black men for her, or the fact that she felt fettered by pressure to take one for the team in regard to dating within her own race. It is funny that this post was brought up, just the other day, I came back into my patrol base in Iraq, and I entered the chow hall. There is a black female Sergeant who works there who always seems to look at me with a measure of contempt when I enter. I always wondered why but never bothered to ask. One of the NCO’s who is in our support platoon that delivers supplies for the chow hall came up to me laughing and said, “Sir, SGT _ _ _ _ _ _ said she could tell by your attitude that your are probably married to a white woman.” I laughed and said we had never spoken to one another, so how would she know anything about my attitude? He laughed and shrugged. Granted, I think she may have heard my speaking voice and noting the lack of timbre must have added that up and deduced that I have a fondness for white people over blacks. I am married to a black woman, not that it matters, but it seems that a black man married to a white woman is perceived as “selling out”, or “pimping” whereas a black woman marrying a white man is somehow seen as “expanding horizons”. I don’t know, I’m rambling at this point. I am going to check her site out later on. Thanks for a great site Lashawn!
1LT Smith
Camp Slayer, Iraq
Comment by Dkelsmith — 05.27.07 @ 2:00 pm
Notice how well I have been staying out of this conversation? That’s because I have no personal experience to add. I would like to ask a question, though. Many people here have made comments about how they have no problem with interracial marriage, how there aren’t races, only the human race, and so on. I do not disagree with those statements and have no objections to interracial marriage on moral grounds. I like the point that Christian posters have made about Adam and Noah, etc. We even have black Jews, not just Ethiopians, but also blacks who convert to Judaism, some even to hasidic Judaism.
However, I do believe wholeheartedly that in marriage, “similarities are assets and differences are liabilities.” Inasmuch as someone black may have a distinctly different culture from someone white, what are the problems that erupt in a marriage due to those differences? I am more familiar with problems between rightwingers marrying moonbats or the religious marrying the secular (my personal experience in my first marriage), between Jews marrying non-Jews, and between Americans marrying Israelis (frequently a turbulent combination.) Experiencing and observing these types of marriages has convinced me that my second marriage is so happy because we are so similar from similar backgrounds with similar values.
My son is dating a black girl, so far it’s a pleasant and healthy relationship that makes them happy, but it’s also a first relationship in college so who knows how long it will last. They are both smart kids who attend a prestigious private college and enjoy many of the same things, so in a sense, they have found their shared culture. But definitely their backgrounds are different. I am clearly concerned and disappointed about the possibility of him marrying a non-Jew when that is not how he was raised, but that aside, I do have concerns about him dealing with interracial marital problems ON TOP OF other problems of marriage. Again, similarities are assets and differences are liabilities. I know that some black men (and white men too) could get pretty nasty toward them and I actually fear for both of their safety. I think about future children and know that being a biracial child is not always easy. I worry about these things, even though I know that we should not let fear of others’ bigotry and violence govern our life choices.
I guess I expected to hear more than just declarations of love for one’s partner of a different race, but also more discussion about what were the rough spots? How did you deal with them? What about families? Or are the rough spots overblown by those who are not involved?
Comment by batyah — 05.27.07 @ 3:12 pm
As an aside, I just want to say that I 100% support black women dating whomever they feel treats them with love, dignity and respect; it would be nonsense to only date black men, even if they are abusive, out of some sense of duty to the community. None of us should be sacrificial lambs.
Comment by batyah — 05.27.07 @ 3:29 pm
Batyah
I would be inclined to agree with your concerns on interracial couples but on the other hand most of the people here are waxing lyrical so its pretty pointless really.I would say though on looking around that black woman/white man couples are pretty rare but usually they work in the LONG TERM more than WW/BM .
I am talking of the long term.In Britain you do see thousands of WW/BM couples and they usual cohabitate for a short while,have children and move on to the next partner to do the same again.So saying the BW/BM was subject to the same.Now I know that WW/WM can do it too but statistics show that the black male is 60 % plus more likely to be in a multiple cohabitatig situation than anybody else but nobody seems to be shy of this in case they are considered racist.
We do see shying away from eastern cultures in case the men are “controlling ” but not if men are statistically proven to be “unreliable” which is strange .However we still get white /Indian-Pakistani mixes and this is where the latter are more reluctant than anybody.
11 % of Indians/Pakistanis overall are married to whites here and usually they are extremely successful long term and its almost 100 % if the girl is Indian/Pakistani .
I personally find that this combination is very goodlooking and full of family values,even if the culture is different.Thats maybe a reason for it working so well.
I am white and I would say that I am only attracted to white guys and olive skinned ones due to their cultural norms and looks.
Comment by Mary — 05.27.07 @ 4:15 pm
Lordy, I cannot believe I am reading this much less commenting but I find this discussion interesting. And I’m nothing if not fair and open-minded, so here goes…
As a black woman, I’ve never dated someone outside of my ethnic group but I have had more than my fair share of sexual interest from white men. Not acting on that can probably be attributed to my general lack of sophistication with men than with them being white in particular.
However, I have pondered lately the idea of just how much are individuals in general, black individuals in particular, are expected to sacrifice in the name of furthering the agenda of the greater group.
I just do not know that sacrificing a loving relationship is a fair request for people to make of anyone. I long ago stopped caring about seeing a black man with a white woman. Seriously. I assume that woman does something for him that I can never comprehend and that he wouldn’t have like me anyway! His being happy is not my loss.
And that idea of loss is another interesting component. This concept of “lack” is a defeating attitude that tends to plague POC more than anyone else. The underlying assumption that seems to be made when one disapproves of seeing a black person with an “other” is: there’s one less for me!
I do not believe in lack. I don’t require 15 million men so why should I care, on a personal, romantic level, if 15 million black men are in jail (I’m making figures up people.) I only need ONE man. So someone else having a man doesn’t reduce, to my mind, my opportunity to find a partner.
There is also an element of intellectualism and thoughtfulness and self-actualization at play as well. I think that as people achieve a deeper understanding of themselves and the world beyond their neighborhood or family they come to understand that there are very few absolutes in life. once you understand that you have to begin to accept that maybe every black man isn’t a trifling fool, every light skinned black woman isn’t a status symbol, every white man isn’t the devil, etc.
Now, that is not to say that we, as a community do not have some serious issues with internalized racism and classism. But, again how much of that you choose to allow to rule you, as a thinking adult, is up to you.
I, personally, choose not to participate in “group think”. I find it to be the sign of an unevolved mind. And God knows I can’t stand stupid! At this point of the game I’ll take someone with “sense” — both common and uncommonly good — of any race.
Comment by mili diva — 05.27.07 @ 5:12 pm
Comment by Darin Tracy — 05.25.07 @ 10:37 am:
“She has been conditioned by our society to believe that “white†is pretty and “black†is ugly”
[”so she sometimes/many times has self esteem issues and questions if I think she is pretty.”]
Darin my friend, if I can be allowed to give a little explicitly male centric perspective. The phenomenon you describe is inherent to our better halves, and not necessarily related to race!
Comment by jdavenport — 05.27.07 @ 8:40 pm
Batyah, the rough spots are absolutely overblown (and carefully searched for) by those who are not involved. And those not involved, who search for “rough spots” in an interracial relationship generally wind up creating the rough spots they are looking for - whether inadvertently or advertently. If you seek out rough spots you will always and I mean always find them. If you don’t really want to be involved in a relationship (or you dont’ really want your family involved in a relationship) you’ll always look for things to “worry” about.
All relationships have difficulties.
An interracial rel can be just as strong as a non interracial one. Every single person - biracial or not - faces some sort of difficulty in life. A Jewish child would run into trouble because it is Jewish - but that child deserves to experience life, does it not? To assume that because it will run into added problems being biracial, and therefore does not deserve to be brought into existence… well, I’d say maybe you should reconsider your motives for worrying.
Comment by lucy — 05.27.07 @ 9:00 pm
I am a black male, never been in a BM/WF interracial relationship, never really had a desire to be in one (my personal preference are black and Puerto Rican women.)My take on BF/WM relationships is if its based on a sincere love for one another. its cool, GOD BLESS YOU. but if its based on racial stereotypes such as WM being superior to BM or BF being sexuly freaks, then there’s a problem.
Comment by acidtrip — 05.27.07 @ 9:04 pm
Lets compare inflated individual perceptions with actual surveys:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1077/is_2_56/ai_67531410
“Similarly, our readers contradicted the notion that skin color plays an important role when Black men are considering whom to date or marry. More than 75 percent of the men in our survey say that skin color does not matter to them at all when assessing a woman’s attractiveness. Nearly 80 percent say they would never discount a woman as a potential mate based on whether she was too light or too dark.”
“One reason for this may be the somewhat mixed perception these men have of Black women. About one-third say a supportive Black woman is hard to find. Just over 43 percent said that the behavior of some of their peers has made it difficult for Black women to be supportive of Black men. But more than half (52.2 percent) think Black women are only looking for men with money and status.
Comment by Shade — 05.27.07 @ 9:37 pm
#78 and # 79 both bring up a good point. People are people and so most women are insecure about their looks and most couples have rough spots.
The thing is that when race enters the picture, it would be easy to chalk up problems to race. I remember once having a black friend of mine say that a mutual aquaintance was rude to her because she was black. However, that mutual aquaintance was rude to everyone and a collosal jerk.
I think that race can be a handy dumping ground to get away from the hard work of the human condition.
Comment by jan — 05.27.07 @ 11:16 pm
The problem is who gets to be a member of the Black Club? Who is “authentically black”. As long as comments like “light skinned” and “dark skinned” and tossed around black folk will always have a shifting definition of who is in and who is out.
Comment by Richard Cook — 05.28.07 @ 1:18 am
Lucy, you wrote, “To assume that because it will run into added problems being biracial, and therefore does not deserve to be brought into existence… well, I’d say maybe you should reconsider your motives for worrying.”
Can you say more about that? I’m not sure what you are getting at, with regard to my specific comments.
Comment by batyah — 05.28.07 @ 1:20 am
And #57:
That first interracial kiss..YOWZA YOWZA YOWZA!!!
Comment by Richard Cook — 05.28.07 @ 1:27 am
I wonder if an alarm clock is enough to wake you sleeping beauties. Let’s face it. There are two main reasons a black woman would be with a white man: desperation or some kind of sick revenge. What else would it be? Love? Pleeease? I can’t speak for white and Asian or Jewish and Arab or Latin and Indian (American) couples. I can say that black/white unions are usually a mistake.
Black men who do it are trying to escape who they are. I mean any black man who is with a white woman would not be with the same woman if she was black. Even gay black men have a preference for white men. White men who get with black women are trying to get a sort of testosteronic validation that they can please someone who has been with black men. Smart black women don’t fall for this transparent game. BW/WM unions are born out of rejection. If you dig into the history of these individuals, few people of their own races wanted them, so they run to each other. Ask any ’sister’ why she ended up with a white man and she will almost always say something in the realm of “there aren’t many brothers out there” or “all the black men I want are with white women.” Sounds like the start of a healthy relationship to me.
Comment by teri — 05.28.07 @ 4:08 am
“I wonder if an alarm clock is enough to wake you sleeping beauties. Let’s face it. There are two main reasons a black woman would be with a white man: desperation or some kind of sick revenge.”
Wow, I’ve read some messed up stuff from ‘black’ or ‘white’ supremacist groups, but this is certainly on par with regards to blatant bigotry.
You are making three points right there in the above quote, and