Commenter Shade dropped this link: Border jumpers are burning down border posts and setting fires along patrol routes to distract agents and get across. Yeah, these people should be rewarded with precious U.S. citizenship. Way to go, King George! 
…kills another American. Driving while drunk is part of their culture, don’t you know? Movie director Robert Clark and his 22-year-old son were beneficiaries. Don’t you want to benefit, too? 
We’re so fortunate to have Mexican culture among us, aren’t we? They jump over the border, bringing with them a rich heritage, indeed. Their wonderful contributions only enrich America. We’re very blessed to have them. Celebrate diversity!
(Pictured: Formerly law school-bound college track and field star Joycelyn Gardiner, killed by a drunk illegal alien - MM has a picture of the car)
More death-by-illegal-alien sources:
- Driver Pleads Guilty to Running Down Pedestrian
- Teen Responsible for Fatal Crash Was Unlicensed
- Driver Charged With DWI in Fatal I-40 Wreck
- Admitted Illegal Immigrant Faces Vehicular Manslaughter Charges
- Tragedy links family, officer
- Officials crack down on illegal immigrants since fatal crash – Yeah, right…
- Fatal wreck leads to 15-year sentence
- Brother guilty in fatal crash
- Illegal Immigrant Pleads Guilty
- Speeder crashes, sends three to hospital
- Year following infamous immigrant DUI crash…
Update: Congressman Tom Tancredo, hardline enforcement guy, introduced an amendment to the amnesty-for-illegal-aliens bill that would penalize illegal alien sanctuary cities. No surprise there. Here’s the shocker: the House passed the amendment by a vote of 234 to 189.
In other news, illegal aliens slaughtered a goat. In a restaurant kitchen. Celebrate diversity!
Brothels in residential areas. Interesting…
Commenter Kim sets other commenters straight:
The issue here is not “race,†but legal status and cultural norms. Drunk driving, and all manner of other driving violations, are the NORM in many (not all) Latin and Central American countries. So are corruption, gang membership, and sex with little girls. I should know – I lived in Latin America, and traveled there extensively.
In this country, adult woman may be harrassed by construction workers – it is a stereotype with a lot of factual validity. Tell me, though – is it normal or commonplace for grown American construction workers (as opposed to illegals) to expose themselves and make catcalls at 9 year old girls in major metropolitan cities? No, it is not. And if it occurs, it is not acceptable. Yet, when I lived in Colombia, this happened to me and my schoolmates on a daily basis. Daily, because we had to walk past several construction sites. It was considered to be commonplace and not worthy of attention, let alone police action.
As much as people want to avoid reality and swallow the Kool-Aid that all cultures are “equal,†they are not.
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Often drivers from the Third World (and Europe) are used to a wilder road. I’ve said quite a few prayers while on roads outside this country (and gotten scoffed at for it, too).
I wouldn’t say illegal immigrants are the only bogeymen run people down or that its a huge part of their culture, though. After all, Paris could very well have done the same thing, and that’s why she’s in prison! 
I blame MADD!! With the push over the last decade or two to stop American citizens from driving drunk — we have now discovered the “job” Americans will not do.
Peace to the family of this beautiful girl.
Furthermore, yesterday I engaged a hispanic immigrant in conversation. This conversation was very difficult because she could barely speak English. According to here she arrived in the US at the age of 5. Her father gave her the necessary papers to be Legal (yea sure). She is now 28. She is not a US citizen because she has not bothered to pursue citizenship. She has her “green card” and claims to be a legal resident.
I am sorry, but if you have made no efforts to seek and gain US citizenship in 23 years, or even in the 10 years since reaching adulthood …..
WHAT ARE YOU DOING IN THE US? Other than taking that job flipping burgers from a US citizen teenager or college student who needs money for tuition?
Whenever you hear someone say they are on a path to citizenship question that assumption. I am engaging more and more illegals in this conversation — the Asians, the Africans, the Europeans — they are seeking US citizenship … the Mexicans and Latin Americans are NOT.
Changed Life, did you ask this illegal alien if she’s a Christian?
As a resident of Virginia Beach, Virginia, I recently witnessed first hand the tragedy of drunk driving on a community. An illegal alien named Alfredo Ramos, who by the way had already been convicted of drunk driving in a neighboring city, killed two teenagers at a stop light. This behavior has got to be addressed, but I’m afraid it will take a politician or government “leader” to lose a child before it is stopped. May god bless Joycelyn Gardiner and her family.
I think I’m getting a better idea of why Fat Teddy Kennedy (D-Chivas) is so fond if illegal aliens; they have that whole drunk-driving-and-killing-people thing in common.
I don’t care what your ‘news observer source’ writes, you are painting with a pretty broad brush, La Shawn.
Alcohol related casualties have been in the US of A long before an over-whelming illegal immigrant problem made the headlines.
Is there a problem with drunken illegals? Yes. Is there a problem with drunken ‘good ol boys’, etc? Yes. The difference is the drunken illegals have no business being here and should be given bum’s rush ASAP! on that count alone.
(Yours, mine, our) Frustration about all this comes from the elected officials who embrace the ’sanctuary’ attitude of law enforcement and too many American citizens suffer because of this lax law enforcement attitude.
The solution is to pressure our elected officials to defend the border, enforce existing laws, and punish ’sanctuary officials’. Contact your congressperson HERE.
http://locomotivebreath1901.blogspot.com/2007/05/illegal-immigration-views-let-em-be.htmlBut let us not grab a broad brush & go down the demagogue road of prejiduce & bigotry.
If one’s first experience on foreign soil was a deliberate furtive act of evading the law, why should anyone expect these illegals to respect the nation’s laws later?
In all due to respect to the kind hostess and those who have commented thus far, I cannot see the use in making drunk drivers out to be anything else but arrogant and selfish. I don’t understand the need to place their race ahead of the crime they have committed. Are not all drunk drivers disgusting, do not all those who murder make up recoil in outrage. What difference does it make what the criminal looks like? A criminal is a criminal.
IN RESPONSE TO JOHN D.
Let’s say that you are correct and that all bigots in this grand world of ours are black, or hispanic. Let’s also concede the point that those who make up what is known today as the white race have been the sole architects of western civilization. When I run into characters like yourself, it always warms my heart to know, that your esteemed group who makes the sun rise and set and has provided all civility in the world cannot even manage a simple task such as securing its own borders, win a war against a much weaker fighting force, nor find the science to ressurect reagan. Mine eyes weep for you. It seems like your greatness is either over hyped or your glory days are over. Good luck with fighting for the race.
Brandon said:
“I don’t understand the need to place their race ahead of the crime they have committed.”
‘Elephant in the room’ problems Brandon?
“Are not all drunk drivers disgusting, do not all those who murder make up recoil in outrage. What difference does it make what the criminal looks like? A criminal is a criminal.”
It makes a difference that a whole ‘culture’ is based upon illegality and DUI. And we aren’t talking about Conservatives or even white or black Conservatives. It makes a difference that they (illegal hispanics) are killing REAL Americans. Or maybe you think that we shouldn’t acknowledge the cultural aspect of the criminality?
“Good luck with fighting for the race.”
To Brandon, here’s a clue:
One doesn’t have to be white to be a conservative Christian. Onw doesn’t have to be white to be law-abiding. You made that assumption.
NOW does it make sense? Or shall you play the race-card again? It is not ‘race’ that is at fault (unless you believe the Bell Curve)but, here’s a word:
CULTURE.
You may believe all cultures are equal (just to avoid being called the “R” word) But you are mistaken.
Sir, it was you who introduced race twice in your comments. You first stated that only blacks and hispanics are racist: “Listen, it’s the liberals/blacks (generally speaking) and hispanics that are the bigots.” Secondly, you stated that: “Y’see, *except* for the ‘politically correct’ among you, WE all know who built this world, and it *wasn’t* your beloved ‘minorities’ or your lazy welfare bums, or your ‘black community’. Yet who 99% of the time gets tarred with the ‘bigot’ brush? Why, white Conservatives of course.”
So in your broad generalities you claim that that two races are the only racist in the world (not that it matters because who cares, you don’t like me I don’t like you) and you believe that only had a hand building whatever it is you look up too.
Sir honesty will get you a long way. You introduced the race card not I.
Hispanics are not another race. They are an ethnic group, and overwhelmingly Caucasian in many countries.
The issue here is not “race,” but legal status and cultural norms. Drunk driving, and all manner of other driving violations, are the NORM in many (not all) Latin and Central American countries. So are corruption, gang membership, and sex with little girls. I should know – I lived in Latin America, and traveled there extensively.
In this country, adult woman may be harrassed by construction workers – it is a stereotype with a lot of factual validity. Tell me, though – is it normal or commonplace for grown American construction workers (as opposed to illegals) to exposes themselves and make catcalls at 9 year old girls in major metropolitan cities? No, it is not. And if it occurs, it is not acceptable. Yet, when I lived in Colombia, this happened to me and my schoolmates on a daily basis. Daily, because we had to walk past several construction sites. It was considered to be commonplace and not worthy of attention, let alone police action.
As much as people want to avoid reality and swallow the Kool-Aid that all cultures are “equal,” they are not.
Brandon, for the last time:
It is the black ‘culture’ and the liberal ‘culture’ and the illgal hispanic’ ‘culture’ that you aren’t facing.
They are the real race-card players. And no matter what you think about those dead white men, it doesn’t change the elephant in the living room. You can make it about race and not culture if you want, and as I say, you may find some on the far left who support honest enquiry into race + intelligence i.e. The Bell Curve. If you don’t mind, I won’t join you as one doesn’t have to be especially intelligent to be law-abiding, and that’s where your beloved minorities (soon to be majorities) and liberals are in disagreement.
Always the victims.
The case of culture is a dubious matter for me. I am unsure of what it means. Some here and elsewhere believe that there are certain Americans who are not apart of this “culture”. Some hold that blacks for instance are more dangerous that that which the nation allegedly fights overseas. So what is culture? Who controls it? Who is apart of it? Who is not? Is it defined by Paris Hilton or these rappers, or Laura Bush and Colin Powell?
PIMF:
“that’s where your beloved minorities (soon to be majorities) and liberals are in disagreement with conservatives”
jOHNd
Who is this black culture, I didn’t know Colin Powell, Condi Rice, Oprah, and Thomas Sowell where destroying the fabric of America. Of course they are black, does that mean they have this alleged black culture?
Has JohnD been possessed?
Does anyone really believe, in all honesty, that race is the issue here? It’s not, of course. Mexicans are white, indian, and “other.” And if they’re here illegally, it simply doesn’t matter to which group they belong. Can we stipulate to this, and get past the straw man arguments for once?
Tom Tancredo’s efforts are admirable, but they won’t do any good. We already have similar laws in Colorado but the Feds won’t cooperate:
“Police agencies in Colorado turned over the names of at least 15,000 suspected illegal immigrants to federal authorities during the second half of last year.
Their offenses ranged from minor infractions to first-degree felonies but each referral was in compliance with a new state law designed to get tough on illegal immigration.
Law enforcement officials, however, debate whether the new law is having its intended effect.
They said they doubt the enhanced reporting has led to any more deportations of criminal illegal immigrants. “I still sense that there is simply no infrastructure in the federal system in place to actually do anything with these undocumented aliens beyond the occasional, token deportations,” said Aurora Police Chief Daniel Oates.”
The rest:
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5590948,00.html
It’s become a bipartisan issue:
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5590946,00.html
Shade:
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was thinking the EXACT same thing…I am tickled to death over here…LOL!!!
“And if they’re here illegally, it simply doesn’t matter to which group they belong.”
Redbeard, you are mssing the central point of the argument:
Their CULTURE is degenerate. Hence they are here and not only drunk under the influence of alcohol, but similarly useless under the influence of a degenerate culture.
As La Shawn says, WHAT do these people contribute to America?
Or shall we ignore THAT elephant also? Remember there are many ‘legal’ hispanics here too, also drunk driving and committing crimes. Shall we go down the liberal route and, ahem, ‘ignore’ who the majority of criminals are here?
And Shade, I’m just saying it like it is. It really is quite liberating, maybe you could consider it? The only way my stride may now be broken would be if it where found that illegal immigrants are actually the natural predator of homosexuals.
It feels good to be right.
I do a lot of community service. I am on a hospital board, I work with university students who are in academic peril, I help aspiring police and firemen prepare for advancement exams, I am part of the Offender Aid and Restoration team, I help fill prescriptions in the free clinic, I help get the alcoholics into shelters, I work with people who have needs past the 30 days with the Salvation Army, and more.
The Hispanics are beginning to outnumber the blacks in all of these playing fields, except the street alcoholics who are largely a white group. You know why? Because (for the most part) they won’t be tolerated at home. Meanwhile, our town has its hands full with black and Hispanic alcoholics tearing up the projects and the trailer parks. Our fire department and rescue squad won’t go into some areas without police protection.
This is a CULTURAL thing, folks. Whole communities accept and shield irresponsible and dangerous behavior.
Every couple of weeks I spend the night monitoring the activities of the emergency room of the hospital I serve. As Yogi Berra famously put it: “You can observe a lot by just looking.” Don’t believe me, anyone can be a court watcher or a pre-parole volunteer or monitor an emergency room waiting area. The emergency room is often overwhelmed with people using it as a free clinic and people who have “contracted” gun shots, stab wounds and been attacked by trees and road signs while driving peacefully in a state of induced euphoria.
The Hispanics have brought plenty of crushing pressure to our emergency services infrastructure. And from my observations, the blacks and the Hispanics who come together in these situations are more combative than sympathetic.
I am disgusted with the apologists of all races and ethnic bias. People need to help people be part of the brotherhood of man. Constantly sticking race or ethnic apologies or victimhood into it is worse than a chump game, it is a form of violence.
john d
“And Shade, I’m just saying it like it is. It really is quite liberating, maybe you could consider it? The only way my stride may now be broken would be if it where found that illegal immigrants are actually the natural predator of homosexuals.”
I didn’t know that this was the type of blog where it is permissable to call for the murder of innocent people simple because you dislike their behavior.
He’s being sarcastic, Brandon. However, you’re probably a new commenter and wouldn’t know that. Don’t take others’ comments (or yourself) too seriously. – Admin
Victor Davis Hanson has an excellent op-ed on some of the issues we are discussing:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/06/civilization.html
Wow. This ranks right up there with the most off-the-rails threads of all time.
And yes, JohnD has gotten into the cooking sherry again, I do believe.
I am concerned by the overwhelming tone of racism by some in this thread. I think we can leave that out of the discussion. The issue at hand is illegal immigration, and failure to assimilate by anyone from any country. Personally, I don’t care if we’re talking about a German illegal, a Saudi illegal (other than the concern that they are more likely to be a jihadi), or a Mexican illegal.
And, quite frankly, that’s the only way us pro-enforcement types will win this debate — is if we kick out of our midst those that would throw racism into the discussion.
Respectfully,
Jim C
“that’s the only way us pro-enforcement types will win this debate — is if we kick out of our midst those that would throw racism into the discussion.”
How is acknowledging a worthless culture’s spurious ‘gifts’ to America to be interpreted as ‘racism’?
Kindly answer that before you start shooting off the ‘R word’…just a thought. PC is killing us all by letting criminal cultures destroy hard-earned civilization.
“Has JohnD been possessed?”
No, I think he’s feeling dis-possessed.
Oh, and Jim C, there are no actual ‘pro-enforcement types’ exhibiting racism on this thread – only anti-enforcement types doing a little posing. After all, if, as a liberal you can’t logically prove racism by your ideological opponent, why, just try to find a way to throw it in there anyway!
The Hispanics are beginning to outnumber the blacks in all of these playing fields
Just to be clear, statistically, blacks are and have been arrested and convicted of DUI’s at a lower rate than whites and Hispanics. Also, studies have shown that the rate of heavy drinking among blacks is also lower than the other two groups.
LaShawn — I did not ask if she was a Christian. I assumed that most hispanics are Catholic. (my bad). What is your point in asking about religion. I think breaking the law to enter the US is contrary to Christian teaching.
Otherwise, I recently read where 75% of African Americans in DC report their employment and ability to find a job has been impacted by the increase in immigration — legal or otherwise. When one considers that 3 out of 4 Mexican and Latin American immigrants are here illegally — chances are it is an ILLEGAL who has taken their job.
Kim — you mention the construction sites in Columbia — well guess what — that happens in the US (maybe not to young girls) but the day laborer pick up at the local 7/11 has made it unsafe for women to shop there. No Big Gulps or Slurpees for me. The stares are bad enough, the remarks are terrible and the grabbing of the genitals is obscene.
Changed Life,
I know what you’re talking about. Luckily, I am a big woman with a “don’t-mess-with-me” glare. Oh, and the help that I can cuss them out in Spanish is useful, too.
The problem with Mexico is its Catholicism. Catholics are not Christian. Their doctrine of justification hasn’t gotten better since the Reformation, it’s gotten worse if anything. All Roman Catholics need to hear the gospel, plain and simple, including the Mexicans. Sorry if this isn’t a popular opinion here, but it’s true.
Lets face facts there is no way to stop this immigration. As long as the politicians see this as a future voting block, American business see this as a very cheap work force (you really think they are paying time and a half, 401k, and real health insurance we could go on and on). So all the silly ideas like more troops on the border. One problem with that where will we get the extra troops? Oh yea the fence, just wait till they discover the invention of the boat and plane to sneak into the country. the only solution is to speak with your wallet stop supporting companies who profit from this trade. If your lawn guy has a crew of illegals fire him, if your home builder used illegals don’t buy that home from him and if your bank profits from the 30 plus billion dollars wire transfers switch banks. The only thing in this country that will make people listen to you is the power of the dollar. If the incentive to enter this country illegally is removed they will not enter the country.
LaShawn, JohnD, Redbeard and Heliotrope,
Amen, amen and amen to EVERYTHING you all have said!! It would only be redundant for me to post now. Thank you for stating what needs to be said even when others call you racist.
JIM C — I agree that an ILLEGAL is an ILLEGAL. The trouble is that estimates indicate that 90% of ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS are from Mexico and Latin American. So with 12 to 20 million illegals this means that 1.2 million to 2 million are from Asia, Africa, Europe while 10.8 million to 18 million (some estimates put the total ILLEGAL population much higher) are hispanic.
Also, studies indicate that hispanics have the lowest numbers of legal immigrants seeking naturalization — something in order of only 50% of those here LEGALLY attempt to become citizens.
My issues are (1) enter LEGALLY and (2) assimilate and at least attempt to become citizens once here. Estimates are that 3 out of 4 hispanic immigrants are here ILLEGALLY.
Can repeating the facts make us racist?
I freely admit that while I do not consider myself racist I accept that I am biased in that I do not like (1) CRIMINALS (2) the UNEDUCATED (3) the stupid (4) the ignorant. If that makes me a bigot — then so be it.
I feel that ILLEGALS are a serious drain on taxpayer dollars and social services. When there was finally some light into the conversation on how damaging dependency upon the government was in perpetuating poverty and destroying the family, in particular the black family, it now appears that this same dependency and generational poverty is being institutionalized with granting amnesty to a permanent underclass.
Illegals also hurt the least fortunate of our society — the unskilled, underskilled and undereducated. They depress the wages of the lowest paid in our society.
I also believe that ILLEGALS unfairly steal an opportunity to immigrate into the US from those willing to enter legally. There are plenty of people from Africa and Asia that would love to come here — and I bet they can do those jobs Americans won’t do every bit as well as any illegal.
I disagree Uncle Ruckus — we the citizens of this country — black, white, yellow, brown, purple or green and liberal, conservative, green, libertarian or unconcerned need to make a BIG STINK. We need to call our Representatives and Senators regardless of their political party affiliation and tell them POINT BLANK — enforce the laws we have now. Demand that big business be held accountable for employing ILLEGALS.
There are two groups that benefit from ILLEGAL immigration — the illegals and the PRIVILEGED ELITES. The rest of us — middle class, working class and what I call NO Class are hurt.
Uncle Ruckus — you need to make a ruckus.
Stories like this make me ill.
I have just finished emailing the TSU story to the White House, my senators and other GOP/Democratic Leadership. I am going to email each of LaShawn’s examples and then go looking for more. I might just print them all out and fax them for good measure.
Keep up the fight LaShawn!
Excellent points, Changed Life! I feel the same way. God knows the illegals are taking many of the construction jobs here in New Orleans (post Katrina)that could go to local companies.
One of the problems with illegal immigrants and DUI is incapacitation. I’ve mentioned this before on another post. In Illinois (and I can’t speak for other states), police officers are not allowed to ask about immigration status. When someone who is illegal is arrested for DUI, for example, he or she can get out of jail with an I-Bond (about $100). Did this person provide a real name/address? Maybe. Does this person show up to court? Maybe, maybe not. Are there bench warrants issued? If so, it may not matter because their addresses are false or the persons with whom they live won’t disclose their location. I guess people who are here LEGALLY can evade prosecution like this, but it’s not likely. So, this person who has been busted for DUI is very free to do it again, and again, and again.
I see you may have missed my point Changed Life, so here are the cliff notes. If you buy a service from a business that uses illegals go elsewhere with you business and tell them why. Money talks all else walks in America. At this point if you have not noticed the politicians are not really listening they do enough double talk to keep you happy and confused. Do you think some of these tough talking politicians would be so tough if they were the deciding vote on immigration reform?
Liberals argue that the motivation behind the whole anti-illegal-immigrant movement is nothing but ugly racism.
Conservatives argue that is not true, and it is all about the rule of law.
Sadly — with a few exceptions — the comments to this post will serve as Exhibit A for the liberals.
Just making an observation….
Kman, illegal immigration is about basic economics cheap labor equals higher profits. To many people are fooled by The Jedi Mind Trick of Conservative vs Liberal to really understand or see the facts.
Kman, are you reading the same comments I am?
Yeah, well liberals also argue that the motivation behind the whole anti-gay marriage movement is nothing but ugly racism, too. But that doesn’t make such nonsense true, does it?
If you want to claim that conservatives on this thread have exhibited racism, you’d have a lot more credibility if you pointed out the exact comment you find racist, and showed that it was made by a conservative.
Otherwise, you are just another liberal trying to place the race-card.
Did you read the article about the poor law student killed? The drunk illegal immigrant who killed her was already convicted of 4 prior crimes, including auto theft.
Why the hell was he even out on the streets, much less still in this country?
Don’t you people ever get embarrassed by the fact that, regardless of the subject, your best argument consists of 1)name-calling, 2)the race-card and 3)dismissing your opponents as ‘dumb’?
Note the rarity of even acknowledging, much less refuting the arguments of your ideological opponents. Now what could POSSIBLY be the reason for this? umm…..because you can’t refute them?
Stacey, it’s far easier to shout “RACISM!” than it is to debate the facts of a matter. And given that those on the pro-illegal pro-amnesty side have nothing intellectually honest to use in debate, it’s not at all surprising to hear the big bad old “R” word being trotted out to condemn conservatives and border security advocates.
Redbeard,
No it’s not surprising. After all it’s a given, according to the left, that your stance on anything from gay-marriage to school-choice to tax-relief is a window on your soul in regards to your true feelings about race.
On what subject (according to the left) do we NOT reveal our true, hidden racism when we fail to adopt the libs position? Not one that I can think of. I’m willing to bet that there is not ONE political controversy on ANY given subject anyone on this thread can name that we cannot find libs calling conservatives racists for failing to support their side of the argument regardless of the actual subject matter at hand.
It’s just a wonder any of these people manage to take themselves seriously.
#43 Uncle Ruckus notes: “….illegal immigration is about basic economics cheap labor equals higher profits. ”
Well, yes. But there is another dimension as well.
I can attest to the fact for my 50 years in this part of Virginia we have had migrant workers who come to pick apples. They have always been primarily Mexican.
During that same period, we have had bulging welfare rolls of people who “can’t find work.” Now I am hearing that these illegal immigrants are taking jobs away from citizens. And we still have high unemployment among “certain” sectors of our citizens.
I don’t exactly get it. A non-English-speaking peasant comes empty handed and illegally across our border at considerable risk to his personal safety to get a …….. job……which he readily finds. Meanwhile, we continue to have high unemployment among……..
Am I to believe that a conspiracy of employers, large and small, are turning unemployed, reliable, motivated citizens away in preference for illegals because they can pay them them less? Is that really the case that is being made?
When I go to the grocery store, am I supposed to know who picked the lettuce and who slaughtered the hogs? Sorry, that dog won’t hunt. I guarantee you that I wear some clothing that was produced under disgusting conditions by a little child somewhere in Asia. I don’t seek it out to buy, but I have no information available to avoid buying it.
The economic issue is not bogus. It is important that the police arm of government root out bad employment practices. That will never happen unless We the People of the United States of America put a foot in back sides of our “representatives” and force them to see that it happens.
Trying to find THE boogieman in this mess is useless. In the words of Pogo: “We have met the enemy and he is us.â€
If we do not demand that our government respond to who we are and who we want to be, then our politicians will slip-slide the way of what benefits them the most.
6. I think I’m getting a better idea of why Fat Teddy Kennedy (D-Chivas) is so fond if illegal aliens; they have that whole drunk-driving-and-killing-people thing in common.
Comment by RedBeard — 06.19.07 @ 9:55 am
*****************
Kinda take HIM outta the spot light, these are a lot fresher…
33. The problem with Mexico is its Catholicism. Catholics are not Christian. Their doctrine of justification hasn’t gotten better since the Reformation, it’s gotten worse if anything. All Roman Catholics need to hear the gospel, plain and simple, including the Mexicans. Sorry if this isn’t a popular opinion here, but it’s true.
Comment by PRCalDude — 06.19.07 @ 1:23 pm
***********************
The TRUTH rarely IS popular, but Bro, you just spoke it…
libbygirl said:
LaShawn, JohnD, Redbeard and Heliotrope,
Amen, amen and amen to EVERYTHING you all have said!! It would only be redundant for me to post now. Thank you for stating what needs to be said even when others call you racist.
LOL at JohnD being cheered by the far Right.
Catholics are not Christian.
Here we go with this.
What’s interesting to me is that the last few posters seem to be complaining about the same thing though they may stand on different sides of the immigration debate.
STACY Says that “No it’s not surprising. After all it’s a given, according to the left, that your stance on anything from gay-marriage to school-choice to tax-relief is a window on your soul in regards to your true feelings about race.
On what subject (according to the left) do we NOT reveal our true, hidden racism when we fail to adopt the libs position? Not one that I can think of. I’m willing to bet that there is not ONE political controversy on ANY given subject anyone on this thread can name that we cannot find libs calling conservatives racists for failing to support their side of the argument regardless of the actual subject matter at hand.”
While this may have some validity in some circles it seems that conservatives are complaining about some of the same things minorities are complaining about, OR SHALL I SAY, at least this minority. That is being lumped in with the most distasteful characters simply because their is a policy difference or disagreement.
The problem with generalities, and the broad stroke effect is that it catches all those deserving and underserving of criticism. Further its problematic because those not familiar with the context of the country may believe these generalities without understanding the nuance in the issue.
So is it fair to label everyone who takes a pro-enforcement stance as having a animus towards hispanics, no its unfair and dishonest. Likewise it is the same for those who would paint black culture or hispanic culture or whatever culture as inherently backward, barbarian, or less. I would add that I am still unsure what this whole culture thing is.
Honest debate requires all who want to participate to put forth a good effort. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Stacey I was just using your comments because they where concise and useful I am not suggesting that you have stating anything that I find incorrect.
I won’t debate why or why not illegals are more likely to drive drunk etc. The issue is clear (regardless of what Geraldo says). Tradegies like the one in LaShawn’s post are 100% preventable.
As to my thoughts on the reason it is more likely that an illegal from Latin America is more prone to driving drunk..it is pretty basic. “If you already have little respect for the law you are less likely to consider any further law breaking”. Add to this the fact that a majority of Latin American countries do not have the stigma against drunk driving that we do in the US..it is just a matter of time.
Now does that mean only illegals commit crimes..of course not. But when a crime is committed by an illegal alien it is compounded by the status. Every country has criminals, we deal with those citizens who commit crimes but if they are illegal to begin with they should be immediately deported upon their release.
A good anology is take a driver who has a suspended license..if they get in a wreck who’s fault is it? Regardless of how the accident occured they are at fault for being behind the wheel in the first place. Now an illegal alien who is behind the wheel is as much at fault even if they do have a driver’s license, why because they shouldn’t have been in the country to begin with. Simple enough?
Stacy said: I’m willing to bet that there is not ONE political controversy on ANY given subject anyone on this thread can name that we cannot find libs calling conservatives racists for failing to support their side of the argument regardless of the actual subject matter at hand.
It’s just a wonder any of these people manage to take themselves seriously.
Oh cry me a f**king river and while you are at it PLEASE get over yourself. Name calling goes all around no matter what your political stripe. I definitely lean more liberal and I DEFINITELY am pro-enforcement and pro-border security.
It’s a wonder you can take yourself seriously.
57. Regardless of how the accident occured they are at fault for being behind the wheel in the first place.
Comment by Jim — 06.19.07 @ 3:22 pm
***********************
But Jim, that would require a person to assume PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and a drunk, of ANY race, nationality or gender isn’t going to accept that responsibility…
I have to defend Catholics here…one Catholic I know discusses illegal immigration with me all the time, and she’s fired up about stopping it just as much as I am, and I am a Protestant of no particular denomination.
Second, a [Catholic] priest over here has decided to end the practice of hiring translators when Hispanics send documents in Spanish. He observed that the Chaldeans must write in English, the Polish must use English, as well as the Ukrainians and Albanians, etc. Mind you, the Chaldeans are speaking languages outside the English family tree (Aramaic and Arabic to be precise), yet they are not excused from having to write in English, and so the priest has decided that neither will the Hispanics. He apparently thinks they need to know English to get along in America, so why not get started?
I don’t think being Catholic should translate into wanting to champion law breaking, and I’m puzzled about what being Catholic has to do with supporting/not supporting illegal immigration, nor can I guess why it would cause backwardness. Correlation, I get that the Latin American countries are also Catholic. I just don’t see any reason to say their faith caused their problems. Other things did, though, and I’d start with how Spain set up the countries from the beginning.
In the meantime, Latin America has hundreds of problems that would remain whether they were Protestant, Greek Orthodox, Lutheran, Byzantine Catholic…calling themselves one thing or another isn’t going to help. You can ignore your faith no matter what it is. What helps is walking the walk.
I don’t allow commenters to call other commenters names, new reader/commenter. – Admin
I’m still not understanding how Catholics aren’t Christians…but I digress…
I should not have allowed this Catholic/Christian diversion to start. It’s now a banned discussion on this thread. Comments with the word “Catholic” in them will be deleted.
No need to respond to John’s comment. It’s gone, and he’s in “time out.” – Admin
It’s been a while since I’ve posted a comment on here but I’m back…at least for now. As I have said before, some of the most inciteful commentary and ideas are forwarded by cartoons. In this case I’m going to reference (waits for the pelting) South Park. An episode last season had people from a bleak future coming back to find work in the present day. They speak a mixture of every world language (since in the future everyone interbreeds completely) which comes out as clicks, hums, and whistles. They begin doing jobs that present day folk cant do for as cheap, forcing schools to teach in both languages and make it impossible to exist monolinguisticly in america. The underlying message is this, yes, they came from a horrible life, but they made it that way, and if we open the door for them to come here, it’s going to be made just like where they came from. We can’t allow it.
#56 Brandon notes: “Likewise it is the same for those who would paint black culture or hispanic culture or whatever culture as inherently backward, barbarian, or less. I would add that I am still unsure what this whole culture thing is.”
You know, Brandon, I don’t see anyone commenting above “painting black culture or hispanic culture or whatever culture as inherently backward, barbarian, or less”
And I also am totally confused about what constitutes “black” or “white” or “Hispanic” or “whatever” CULTURE. But as soon as race is mentioned on this site, here comes someone saying that “as a black, I………and all the black men I know………..” That certainly implies that there is a black culture that is best understood by being black. And then come the data experts with their Innocence Project statistics and the racial and ethnic ratios in given riots.
I work shoulder to shoulder with whites, blacks, Hispanics and others in my community service work. Together we represent a culture of trying to help people get a better grip on their lives. We swoop down on enclaves of blacks who live apart from others and who have a “culture” of permitting, aiding and abetting activities that are detrimental to their own health, safety and progress. Not far away, we swoop down of the same, stupid “culture” among whites who live apart from the mixed society. And down the road are Hispanics who share the same, stupid “culture.” For the most part, although they have a lot of negative attributes of their “cultures” in common, the groups do not get along too well with one another.
I always put the term “black community” in quotes because it is a bogus term. But as soon as you enter into a discussion about the social pathologies of so many underclass blacks, some black statistician or apologist is going to jump up as a spokesman for the “black community.” You can bank on it.
LaShawn writes often about “black†issues. We who comment pretty much keep to the subject, which may look to many as “black-bashing.†Today, we are discussing the hordes of illegal Mexicans. Now we look like Mexican bashers. I will guarantee you that many of us have plenty to say about Radical Islam, but LaShawn has not taken us there very often.
I made my way by sticking to the straight and narrow and copying the acts of successful people. When I made my many mistakes, I learned from them and moved on. Maybe I am lucky, because I know what the bottom is and I didn’t like it there. But all we have in life is what we will do with the cards we hold as the clock moves forward. Crawling down the neck of a bottle or stewing in our juices is wasting valuable time that will never be recovered.
It is not the skin or the ethnicity that makes the “culture .it is the shared belief system. If you don’t like the culture you are in, get in one you do like. But never pass up an opportunity to reach back and to give someone (regardless of their skin color or ethnicity) a hand up.
Some people claim that the word culture is a thinly veiled euphamism for ‘race’. Of course, these are the same people who claim everything is about race, so I take that claim with a grain of salt.
Brandon, your point that it is unfair to ‘paint black culture or hispanic culture or whatever culture as inherently backward, barbarian, or less’ is somewhat true.
The only quibble I have with that is the term ‘less’. What exactly do you mean by that? Different cultures are, by definition, different. Are some better than others? You betcha! I don’t know about you, but *I* certainly don’t want to be a woman living in Saudi Arabia!
Does this mean I find EVERYTHING about that culture abhorent? Of course not. There are certainly things of beauty to be found there.
But just as a man from the Phillipines may well prefer his culture to mine, I have no reason to feel guilt or remorse for feeling the same about my culture.
Does this mean I want to live in a cocoon? Nooooo. I enjoy learning about and even experiencing many other cultures. I may even want to adopt a few of their traditions. It may be a lame example but, heck, who doesn’t like mexican food?
Our American culture is a big mixture of many different cultures to begin with, and is continually changing as it is. The question is at what rate can we absorb the change? Are our recent changes for the better or the worse? How can we guide that change? Do we have the right to guide that change?
At the rate we are going right now, many of us think that instead of absorbing bit of their culture into our culture, and much more of our culture into their lives, the opposite is going to happen.
I am not willing to accept this. Why on earth should I be?
I do NOT want to live in Mexico or any other central American country.
I don’t have the capacity to finacially support all of the Mexicans (or haitians or guatala-howdoyouspellit? or WHATEVER) who would like to be supported.
My country has just as much a right to territorial integrity as any other. I mean THINK about the alternative.
If we don’t neither does anyone else. Neither does your state or your city. Neither do you have the right to that house on that particular piece of property you like to call yours.
If you follow the premise that we have no right to territorial integrity to its’ logical conclusion, you will end up in a very unhappy place.
Comment by heliotrope
“And I also am totally confused about what constitutes “black†or “white†or “Hispanic†or “whatever†CULTURE. But as soon as race is mentioned on this site, here comes someone saying that “as a black, I………and all the black men I know………..†That certainly implies that there is a black culture that is best understood by being black. And then come the data experts with their Innocence Project statistics and the racial and ethnic ratios in given riots.”
Well you make fine points, however to your pont about black people speaking for other black people and thus proving that there is a culture seems to be a bit faulty. People speaking for other people does not suggest a common culture or anything else. It may suggest that they are sympathetic to that person/groups worldview or have experienced similar difficulties or success’.
The problem with this cultural paradigm used by so many is that it seems to have no solid definition. Or at least lacks a definition that can stand the test of serious scrutiny.
Stacy,
I agree with the trajectory of your points. I assure you that I was not using culture in reference to you to imply race. I do agree however that there are those on both the left and right who use culture and race interchangeably. As I have stated before and I will state again, I don’t understand what culture is because as you say: “Our American culture is a big mixture of many different cultures to begin with, and is continually changing as it is.” I know everything isn’t peachy here, but I think some things about this mixture has worked out to the benifit of the country. But, to the larger point, what is culture? If this society is a mixture of culture’s which one is defining the definition of culture?
Lets say I’m just unsure of this whole culture thing. While I understand that there is some entity guiding things, it seems that culture is a fairly simple answer to such a complex issue.
LaShawn,
My comment was relevant because you asked one of your commenters if he/she asked if the illegal was a Christian.
I’ve observed that they are certainly ‘Christian’ in the cultural sense. But their doctrine of sola ecclesia leaves them workarounds for a great many things in the Bible that that diminishes their power, and apparently even Romans 13 in this case. Here in Los Angeles, their church actively promotes illegal immigration.
What I was getting at was how Christ-professing illegal aliens justify their crimes. I didn’t intend to start a Catholic-Christian debate and won’t allow one on this thread. – Admin
As I indicated earlier, this thread has taken some strange twists and turns. I suspect a lot of that has to do with some people who will not face the specific problem, which is, quite simply, ILLEGAL aliens. PERIOD. This is not a racial issue in any way, shape or form. It quite definitely is a legal and a cultural issue.
Let’s ask a couple of questions. What class of people is most likely to be represented in an ILLEGAL population? Is it, or is it not, logical to assume that those predisposed to ILLEGAL actions might be more inclined to commit more offenses?
Too many words, too many tangents, too much deliberate misdirection going on in this comment section. Let’s distill the whole mess into the simplest possible terms:
1. Close the border. I mean really, not the wink-nudge nonsense that goes on in Congress and the White House.
2. Fine and/or jail any U.S. employer who knowingly hires illegal labor.
3. Stop allowing “anchor babies” to be used to confound the immigration laws.
4. Remove ALL welfare and other social and financial government benefits from illegals.
5. Start deporting as many illegal aliens as possible.
6. Finally, and only AFTER #1, 2, 3, and 4 are accomplished and #5 is set in motion, create some sort of case-by-case review system to see if any illegals should be allowed, due to special circumstances, to remain here. NO BLANKET AMNESTY OF ANY KIND, UNDER ANY NAME OR PHONY GUISE.
Here is an interesting article somewhat related to the topic:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20070618-051221-2641r.htm
Well, Lashawn, you can’t really have that discussion without first establishing what ‘Christ-professing’ means. In this case, sola ecclesia allows ‘Christ professing’ without obedience to God’s moral law, as their church is a huge champion of illegal immigration. If the church is the final authority, it’s easy to see how they justify their behavior.
Thanks for answering the question, then. Let’s move on… – Admin
I used to live in the land of Lashawn (northern Va) and as a high school student back around ‘99 or so I recall an uproar over Northern Va community college not allowing illegal aliens to attend. Admittedly much of the population of that area is from foreign nations and not always english fluent thus creating a number of programs in the school were geared toward ESL types of students. With that in mind, the first lesson that needs to be taught…define Illegal. To quote a bumpersticker: “What part of illegal don’t you understand?” I love that the “hug” the world left who have such a problem with us giving democracy and freedom to people to defend our interests abroad (like it or not, oil prices will go down when everything evens out, and whether or not there are WMD’s I don’t want a whole region run by folks who want me dead). Those people also want to give democracy and freedom to the people who force themselves illegally into our country. If you want to stop spreading us so thin, then you can’t give the world democracy, and if you want to give the world freedom and security, then you can’t whine that we’re hosing our own people.
Here is why it is purely economical. I will give simple but true example. Once upon a time I was an hourly worker, when coworkers or myself worked over 40 hours we would say “oh yea time and a half”. A large amount of the time overtime is a large expense to an employer. Do you really think all the companies are doing basic things like paying overtime to illegals? Another point, I have been to urgent care several times over the last 5 years every time there is a non-English speaking outdoor worker in the waiting room with him looked like his American boss who paid the full price of urgent care. To someone who is illegal to this country they may think it is great the boss drove them to the doctor. As for me give me a health care and a copay.
If you were to talk to a business owner and ask them what are some of their biggest expenses the will tell you it is overtime and health care.
What people do not understand these people come here out of desperation and employers take advantage of their desperation. Would you tell a young hard working American to take a job in construction or any hard labor job that would not pay overtime, give any type of health care benefits? Not much you can do if you can do if someone under bids you for a job and give up basic labor right in the process.
The hard work is a great Red Herring. All those business large and small that claim illegals work harder than Americas I bet they will not open their books to show they are complying with all the labor laws.
RedBeard: I would kiss you but I don’t want to have to fight with your wife.
I agree with you 100%…can you believe it???
Getting in a little late on this discussion, but guess I’ll throw in my 2C.
First of all, I don’t care who calls me racist. I do not want illegal aliens in this country, whatever their race. I also don’t want day laborers exposing themselves to me. I will call the police. I don’t want drunken drivers on the streets and I don’t want tuberculosis and heaven knows whatever other diseases are being brought into this country by illegal aliens. I could go on and on about overcrowded schools and emergency rooms. The list is very long. But the bottom line is ILLEGAL ALIEN.
I have called, sent e-mails, signed petitions, everything I can think of to stop this travesty of an amnesty bill the senate is trying to shove down our throats. We CITIZENS and LEGAL IMMIGRANTS need to unite to stop this thing and I urge you all to get on the phone now, to spend time signing petitions and send e-mails, faxes, the whole nine yards. If we don’t, we’ll be much unhappier than many of us are today.
#75 Uncle Ruckus:
We are in a building boom here. Our local top-dog developer has half of Mexico working for him. I asked him in front of the county Planning Commission and on cable TV if he had confidence that he was not employing illegal aliens.
He said that he employed a staff to make certain that his employees were legal. He cited the costs in fines and lost business and penalties for missed deadlines if he got busted for having a bunch of illegals. He said that having so much willing labor allowed him to expand. Expansion means more investment in grading equipment and other high ticket expenses.
Then, he invited the Planning Commission to come look at his operation and see for themselves.
I had a man working on my stone patio. He brought along a Mexican helper. I asked about the helper. He told me straight up that he could not afford to hire a bad worker or one who wouldn’t show up or one who was illegal or likely to be arrested.
Those are the two ends of the spectrum. Are there people in-between who are hiring temps from in front of the 7-11? Of course. But if the cops followed their trucks to the job site and followed through, they could put a halt to it real quick.
The “overtime” complaint is a fact of labor supply and demand. Why should an employer pay overtime to anyone if he can reduce the need for overtime by hiring an additional employee? Admittedly, t is tough on the those who have incorporated overtime into their lifestyle when more willing workers show up.
If illegals could get section 8 and all the government checks, maybe they, too, would hole up in house and “not be able to find work.” And then, maybe, employers would have to go back to paying more overtime.
And by the way, time and a half (overtime) is a good deal for an employer if he can make it cover his needs. Hiring another worker costs him double. But under the economic laws of the economy of scale, hiring an extra worker makes good sense if his work increases the production and profit levels.
Owning and running a business is not charity work.
RedBeard #71, That wasn’t hard to understand at all. I really think its that simple. However the politicians cannot afford to mess with the illegal voters.
A bill has been passed and signed so why are we pursuing a new bill? Because the new bill will allow amnesty. Illegal aliens are getting desperate and violent. Many of them are trying to get into this country in hope of the amnesty bills passing.
Persons who begin their “visit” to the USA by breaking the law will probably continue to break other laws in the future. There are numerous after-accident reports showing that Illegal Aliens account for a much larger percentage of accidents than their numbers. A recent report showed that somewhere around 25% of all accidents are caused by persons without a driver’s license, insurance or citizenship.
Did you “local top-dog developer” mention the subcontractors he hires. Be careful of the double speak “none of my employees are illegals” but it may turn out they subcontract the majority of the work performed. As for the guy doing your stone work was his employee on the books? They know the drill to quickly resolve the basic question you will ask regarding the workers status.
Here is a simple question what business can afford to hire a bad worker? When a guy picks up a truckload of workers at the 7-11 he is in dire need of workers. Once that guy finds good workers in that group he tells them to meet him elsewhere. The Day labor places are more like try and buy when they are short workers.
I know I haven’t been involved in this discussion from the start but I see so many comments about race. I really don’t see how this is about race. Illegal is illegal! European, Asian, Mexican, African and the list goes on. If you are here illegally, go home.
Uncle Ruckus — I complain when I believe that an illegal alien is being employed. I actually walked out of the dry cleaners the other day because the counter worker was ILLEGAL and I told the owners they lost my business.
I protested with the builder of my condo when they sent in obviously ILLEGALS to clean the duct work — I told them that their willful disregard of the legallity status of their employees was a felony.
I have protested at Wal-mart, etc.
When 3 of 4 hispanics immigrants are in the US are here illegally I am willing to accept being wrong 25% of the time when I register my complaints.
I became totally fed up with this issue when the 65+ year old black man who worked for the cleaning staff suddenly disappeared as did the 2 20+ black girls something and all three were replaced with northern Mexico indians that can’t speak more than 3 words of English.
I actually wrote all my Senators and Congressmen to complain as I work for a governmental agency.
Where is a 65+ year old black man going to get another job? Is someone going to offer him job training at his age? He was a very pleasant person and shared greetings with me every day. He was going this job. We did not need an immigrant to do this job. The man was friendly, the girls were friendly they smiled, they said hello, they were helpful. The hispanics who have taken these jobs glare at you and are rude,(or maybe they just don’t understand English). They make no effort to be responsive to requests — such as the need for more paper towels, cleaning of the restrooms, or vacumning your floor. Maybe the two girls are young enough to find another job and obtain additional skills. I hope so. They were from the “hood” so they have an steep climb, but at least they were climbing.
Everyone needs positive reinforcement in their lives, what does losing your job to some non-english speaking, illegal immigrants do to your sense of belief that you can make it?
Uncle Ruckus — the problem isn’t just that business big and small is hiring ILLEGALS and looking the other way. As you point out they are also breaking other US laws related to wage and hours. Plus the employer is probably not paying workers compensation insurance required by law. That is why the employer is there to pay the bill up front and immediately. If the worker tells the hospital he/she was hurt on the job then the county would try to recover from the workers’ comp program and this additional ILLEGAL act on the part of the employer would be uncovered.
Employers are also not observing OSHA laws regarding workplace safety (who is going to complain — the illegal?) I might be a conservative and a big supporter of business — but I am not a big supporter of any business that breaks any regulation.
If the regulations are too difficult and costly to remain competitive on the world stage then business should work with government to change the regulations — not break them by ignoring them.
Question: Who will do the 24 hour background search under the ILLEGAL AMNESTY BILL 2007? the Mexican Embassy, who?
Observation…
The Denver area has never had the gang problems of the big cities, but what gang problems we had were the classic groups of young black men – Bloods, Crips, etc. There was a big crack down on gangs in the early 90s and it seemed to work.
Now, however, almost all of the reported “gang” shootings involve Hispanics and they seem to happen much more frequently.
Grafitti is a much bigger problem now too.
Add that to the 15,000 illegal criminals caught by the police and reported to the feds in just 6 months, and you can see that we have a growing violence problem.
Cities and states can only do so much. If the feds won’t deport criminals handed to them on a police platter, who will they deport?
#85 Changed Life declares: “I might be a conservative and a big supporter of business — but I am not a big supporter of any business that breaks any regulation.”
I don’t know a conservative who champions business freedom over the rule of law. I agree with Changed Life entirely.
Business interests need to be regulated and the regulations need to be enforced. (Enron, Adelphia, the Teamster’s Union, NEA, etc.)
The police arm of our local, state and federal governments need to be permitted and encouraged to enforce the existing laws. That would clear up (my guess) 90% of our problems.
#87 Lorraine,
My anecdote here is just that, an anecdote. But……
My brother-in-law watches the surveillance screens for a casino in Nevada. He watches lots of screens focused on the parking lots. Often he sees people casing and breaking into cars. When they are caught and turned over to the police, the cops already know them. Illegals. The judges let them out on their own recognizance, because the FEDS won’t take them. They cost lots of money to lock up locally and whenthey get sent to the FEDS they are released anyway. They tried sending them out of the state on one way bus tickets, but the ACLU stopped that.
My brother-in-law thinks that if the casino had some employees who caused these people to come down with a bad case of bruises that they might not come back.
Do you see a pattern here?
I have to admit that as a person of Hispanic descent I find the whole illegal immigration thing so frustrating. It’s frustrating to me that people who look like me and have similar backgrounds to me are coming here illegally, and so we all get painted with this negative brush. Hispanics have many fine traditions and the culture is very warm and family oriented. We’re hardworking, friendly and religious people. I feel like these people who are coming here illegally are giving this taint to the rest of us, while many other groups can claim to have come to this country legally and I find that totally embarrassing. I’m embarrassed of people breaking the law to be here, and I’m embarrassed that Latin American countries are clearly not doing their job by their people.
Being of Latino descent I naturally do have a rather more nuanced view of the whole issue, and I do recognize that the people who come over come here from countries where they simply cannot get ahead, to work their butts off to send pennies to their families. They’re trying to escape the absolute dead end life their own country has become to make a better life in a better one. Really their intention is honorable but their method is dishonest and hurtful to US citizens and it just makes us all look bad. It’s very difficult to defend, and honestly I don’t want to because I don’t think it’s worth defending someone coming here illegally and in such crummy conditions to boot.
What would be absolutely lovely is if the powers that be, in addition to beefing up enforcement and border sercurity AND most importantly employer sanctions, actually addressed some of the root causes of illegal immigration so that the actual flow can be stemmed. I get annoyed when I hear about Mexico putting pressure on the US over the immigration situation. Particlarly when I’ve heard that Mexico itself doesn’t tolerate illegal immigrants from neighboring countries. Shouldn’t it be the other way around?? The US should be putting pressure on Mexico to improve its own situation so that people can actually get jobs and improve their lives in their own country. These countries have such corrupt administrations, most of you couldn’t imagine living in these countries. They should be ashamed of themselves for running a country where people are tripping over themselves to get out!
And by the way, RIP to the young lady in the picture.
One reason, I think, that President Bush and the Democrats/Republicans are in such a rush to pass an “immigration” bill is that it would forever end the use of the word “illegal” when speaking of “illegal aliens” or “illegal immigrants.”
He who controls the language controls the discourse (and other things).
Political Correctness (cultural marxism) functions as a cudgel in battering away at free speech. PC language attempts to scare us into conforming to socialist/progressivist ideology, or it euphemizes language so that the horrific becomes normal or even virtuous (choice = abortion; Final Solution = mass murder of Jews).
The whole mess of pottage that is the illegal alien imbroglio is a matter of Greed. Greed on the part of the politicians/corporations for votes and labor and greed on the part of the illegal aliens to plunder a rich country (the USA) to offset the governmentally-induced poverty of Mexico and Central and South American countries.
The only thing that bothers me, personally, is that very many illegal aliens from Latin America will not assimilate and do not want to be Americans. But, on the other hand, I have had US citizens tell me that they considered themselves to be “US citizens but NEVER Americans.”
Truth be told, illegal aliens and the illegalities of the illegals once they are here in the USA drives me crazy, or makes me more insane than I already am. I have of late refused, because of conscience, to even go into Mexican or Latino restaurants, but maybe I’m being stupid in doing so, don’t know. It drives me up the wall and then down on my knees before God for some clarity on this, for some biblical insight as to whether I am to stand up for America and for the Rule of Law or else just let everything slide, let all the evil bubble up and let the illegals (and America-hating US citizens) run roughshod over my spirit and love of country.
Last word, I think, from my gaseous mentations, is that I applaud almost all the sentiments expressed in this discussion (except the Orwellian “cry racism!” blips of the cultural marxists). I like the idea of not partaking of or using the services of any company or individual that uses illegal aliens. Maybe what is needed is a source that provides and updates a comprehensive list of companies, corporations, groups that make use of illegal aliens.
Pointing out that illegal immigrants have to use false documents and “stolen identities” to work here, I think is a valid point in the discussion of illegal immigration. Overall crime rates, excluding the fore mentioned stolen identity crimes, could be said to be a part of the discussion.
I don’t see what being an illegal immigrant has to do with driving drunk and killing people. Even if Bush and company had their perverse way, and the drunk driver was legal, he would still be a drunk driver.
DS, I think the relevant point is that Bush/Kennedy would make people legal who should not be.
And furthermore, why should we import more criminals, drunks, and ne’er-do-wells? We have quite enough home-grown ones. Shouldn’t we demand that any legal immigrant be a net positive on society?
Darkstar — the point about illegal drunk driving is that as the United States has gotten MADD about drunk driving, Mexico does not have the same prohibitions against drunk driving. This is not to say that US citizens do not drive drunk, but doing so is no longer accepted by our culture or our laws. Designated drivers, taking the keys, calling a taxi, refusing beverage service to the already intoxicated is not part of the Mexican culture.
First Lady Laura Bush was a drunk driver and she killed someone while driving drunk.
I would LOVE to see the kind of scrutiny currently on illegal aliens driving drunk put on regular american citizens who drive drunk and kill folks. We recently had an illegal alien charged with a drunk driving homicide and GOP Rep. Sue Myrick used that to make a huge deal about illegal aliens and drunk driving. She stated that we need to make it so that they get deported immediately. GREAT! Now, how about we also give a mandatory 20 year sentence and irrevocable license suspensions for drunk driving accidents caused by Americans.
Since that accident, we have had 8 more drunk driving accidents, all fatalities…All WHITE MALE AMERICAN drivers…Sue Myrick was nowhere to be found.
Keep it simple CON-servatives…Someone is here illegally, keep it at that, they are here illegally. Once you start pointing out the crimes they commit and trying to make a case that they are more prone to commit crime you are forced to downplay or ignore the same crimes us American citizens commit daily.
Republicans — especially conservatives — you must confront YOUR business lobby. They are the roadblock to getting any kind of sensible, “get tough” immigration legislation.
Yes RedBeard — after all it is our country — our home — WE are the ones with the RIGHT to decide who may enter and who may not enter.
NO ONE HAS A RIGHT TO ENTER THE UNITED STATES.
If some uninvited guest showed up at your door unexpectedly and flopped on your sofa for months, insisted that you play their music or watched their TV programs, helped themselves to the food in your kitchen you have the right to send them on their way.
We have had 20 years of 3 different administrations failing to enforce the existing laws on immigration and employment of illegals. It is time that we demand that the administration enforce the laws against employing illegals.
>>First Lady Laura Bush was a drunk driver and she killed someone while driving drunk.>>
Apparently not a true statement.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/laura.asp
The “American culture†stems from our country having the longest surviving continuous government in the history of the world. All other examples such as Egypt, Greece, Rome, Britain, China, etc. were a succession of different governments that ruled the same territory.
We the People of the United States of America possess the sovereignty which we loan to our elected representatives through our republican form of democracy as carefully revealed in The Constitution of the United States of America. That document has been the supreme law of our land since 1789 and from it stems our almost religious dedication to the “rule of law.â€
The rule of law is what under girds “American culture.†What rankles us most about illegal aliens is the concept that they get a wink and a nod on the “rule of law.â€
All of our great social issues involve the “rule of law†concept.
Congress is dealing with our broken immigration system by sidestepping the problem: we will just ignore the rule of law.
When we ignore the rule of law, we undermine the very essence of American culture.
We have reason to expect immigrants to learn English and study our history, because it is how they will come to understand and become part of the concept of the rule of law. Only then will they be part of the American culture.
Of course there are a multitude of subcultures throughout the country. Most are positive, productive and add variety to our lives. There are also negative cultures that we have to resist and even fight through the rule of law.
The Amnesty Bill is a classic example of “let’s don’t, but say we did.â€
No semiconscious American believes that a broken border and a broken immigration system and a broken system for identifying and deporting illegal aliens will be changed in the least by a whole set of new statutes. We know that they will not be enforced and that most of the “tough†provisions will be voted out of existence in the near future.
Teddy Kennedy has famously announced about one problematic section that “we will change it after the bill is passed.†Those are the operating words that should be etched on everyone’s brain. This sham of a bill is only Act I.
Congress acted bravely in the defense of the rule of law when it passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964. If that was a +10 on the scale of justice, this bill is prospecting to be a -10.
Along with the rule of law, American culture has developed another basic concept: “No guts, no glory.†Where do Bush and Congress stand on that one?
Race; genetically transmitted physical characteristics.
Culture; totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns.
It is only a guess that the above defintions were the intent during some of the previous discussion.
The love of money is the root of all evils, so the scripture says. And I will wager our elected officials (most of them) have a horse in this race.
Juneteenth crowd violence?? Two murders? Any reflections? Anyone?
And furthermore, why should we import more criminals, drunks, and ne’er-do-wells?
There are clothing workshops in New York where literal slave labor, is being used. The people who are slaves are Chinese.
There are prostitution houses all over the country where the forced prostitutes are Hispanic and Asian.
There are people from the Middle East and Africa who are being found guilty of having slaves.
The people who are running these operations are legal. What do you suggest we do to filter out people who may be pimps, madams, or slave owners?
I can’t remember the number but somewhere there is an estimate of how many women are brought across the border illegally as slave in the sex trade — it was either 10,000 or 100,000 I forget the number — even one is obscene.
Does no one care about pleasing God anymore? Have these people never felt the love of the Lord? At times I find the amount of evil in the world unbearable. Where are our better angels?
“As you do onto the least of you, you do onto me”
Why immigration control matters…
http://www.charlotte.com/112/story/166608.html
#71 redbeard Thank you for that comment. I agree with all of it. I may send it to my congressional representatives in my daily email, if you don’t mind.
Meanwhile, in Austin Texas, a mob of some 20 blacks stomped a Hispanic motorist to death. The man was a passenger in a car headed into their apartment building when they encountered a crowd of some 2,000 blacks out in the streets in front of the apartment celebrating “Juneteenth”. They bumped a young black girl with their car and unfortunately stopped.
The blacks attacked the driver 1st, then swarmed and killed the passenger who was out saying to leave the driver alone, police are coming.
The driver and the young girl were treated for minor injuries. The murdered man, Luis Morales, lived with his older sister who described him as a wonderful brother and law-abiding man.
Local Hispanic gangs said the 2 men should have left the scene rather than risk “black animals” lynching them. One gang leader vowed blacks would pay for this.
Police offered tip and hotline numbers but no information “has yet” been received from the Juneteenth celebrants.
Austin leaders urged “calm”.
Regarding Laura Bush’s “drunk driving”…
Ah, I’ve long wondered when somebody would bring up the Kitty Kelley book, post #96 (lukeNC) Or, perhaps you learned that bit of information off the Today Show…
Remember in September of 2004, when NBC News gave Kitty Kelley a three-day open forum to present her lies as fact, but the Swift Boat Vets couldn’t get 5 minutes of airtime…
OK, back on topic….
Changed Life (re #101);
I live in Austin and am ticked by the it-couldn’t-possibly-be-racist by our community leaders, black and Hispanic. I suppose it is now perfectly normal for mobs to pummel car passengers to death and indulge in a public lynching.
Last year, a tawdry, troublesome, crime-ridden nightclub burned to the ground and police were emailing their buddies joking about the club, saying things like “burn baby burn.” The same community leaders were up in arms, militant and marching and demanding heads on a platter and screamed racism all the way to the bank (by the way, Sharpton and Jackson were not there)until the city caved and offered an enormous amount of money to the owners (though they didn’t get as much as originally offered). Austin created panels to discuss how taxpayers could be soaked even more to ensure quality of life for blacks, especially be working harder to enhance black cultural venues. I went to one panel and there was one married couple going to the Culinary Institute (Ivy League expensive) on taxpayer dollars, did not work,(on taxpayer dollars), and were whining endlessly that they did not feel that the city reached out to them.
As my family has just experienced its eleventh crime, trust me when I say that I don’t feel particularly sympathetic.
“Would you tell a young hard working American to take a job in construction or any hard labor job that would not pay overtime, give any type of health care benefits? Not much you can do if you can do if someone under bids you for a job and give up basic labor right in the process.”
I haven’t seen overtime since high school. I haven’t seen heath care benefits since I left the military. IT isn’t manual labor, but’s it’s been hit hard by H1Bs.
“I do recognize that the people who come over come here from countries where they simply cannot get ahead, to work their butts off to send pennies to their families.”
Immigrants in the USA sent $40 billion to their relatives and friends in Latin America and the Caribbean in 2005.
The County Hospital employees are to silent on this issue. How are these Hispanics Means Tested?
Could Manuel Ortegas daughter with a million bucks in the bank get a free delivery? If you have a Hispanic name are you “even asked to pay?
Are hospital administrators, like the local law enforcement, prohibited from asking them to pay?
Opponents of this heavy handed Immigration Sellout
are not using their best arguments:
Instant devastation of Medicare which is critical to the American Citizens of any hue or pallor who are unable to go back to work to get insurance coverages. The smaller problem is the 12-20 million who are here now! Since they are healthy enough to survive the rigors of getting here illegally, they only need hospitalization every 12 months to have a baby. The half dozen dependents, and they truly will be dependents, Fathers, Mothers, Aunts, Uncles, elderly neighbors who will cough up good money to be listed as a dependent so he or she can get here for the needed $200,000.00 cancer treatment which here will be free for the “chain Migrants is the proverbial time bomb. Why is no one discussing this?
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