My favorite light bulb joke:
Q: How many psychotherapists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: Only one, but the light bulb has to want to change.

Whatever method one uses, the will to change is the one essential.

To me one or two drinks makes no sense whatsoever. I drank to get drunk, period! It usually didn’t end until I was completely inebriated, and sometimes far beyond that.

Fortunately, I am past the point of feeling sorry for myself. In a sense, alcoholism was the best thing that every happened to me, for without it, I wouldn’t be where I am today. However, that does not imply that I would want to go back. My problem had a profoundly adverse effect on my family.

If I have any advice to give, it would be to turn your life over to the care of God.

I too was tired of drinking and where it was taking….on a road to no where. I had, at that time been successful, military officer and promoted to a high rank but it just wasn’t making my family happy, me happy but more important the Lord happy. On 1 Apr 97 I got down on my knees and prayed that the Lord would take away this need to drink. HE did and I replaced that love for alcohol with HIS love. I have not had a want or desire to go back to drinking and I serve as a testimony to those who knew me when I did. Oh and BTW I now own my own company and wake up each and everyone more with a blessing of God’s grace and mercy.

It was one thing that was said that got me thinking. Quote “A lot of the times you went out drinking you had fun and did not get into any trouble” I thought heck yes, I had some very good times, this is very true. Maybe I’m just a problem drinker and not one of these gutter drunks. The kicker for me was when rest of Quote was said: “But, all the times you got into trouble, you were drinking.” …hmmm, when I stopped lying to myself I knew that all the times I beat up some guys fist with my face, had fights with the girlfriend, messed up the car, spent way to much money out of the paycheck, spent time with the local police department, was late for work due to my hangover etc.. sure as heck, I was drinking.

Back in the 90’s, when I first tried to get sober, there was a program called “rational recovery.” The basic premise was for people to realize that they could lead a sober life without the principles laid down by Bill W and Doctor Bob. I had a few folks whom I knew try this as they were not interested in the recovery program of AA. Not one of those folks made it past one year before they were lost in the fog of their alcoholism. If their program worked it was but for a brief period.

Mr. Levy seems to infer that an Alcoholic can be made “normal” again and be able to partake. I disagree. I have seen way too many people walk into AA, get enough sobriety to where they thought “hey, I have my house back in order, I’m back to ‘Normal’ I should be able to drink socially as a normal person does.” Well, they don’t and can’t. It is more than just the intake of alcohol that is the problem. An alcoholic is a person whom is a self-centered, selfish walking defect of character. Any time you add alcohol to the mix, you get all the wonderful ISM’s (I, Self and Me) but you also get the financial/leagal/spritual/relationship problems that arise from drunkenness. Myself, I had a huge “GOD” shaped hole in me that I tried filling with wine, women and song.

The only way I have found that works for me and has a track record of working for me is AA. I have tried abstaining from certain drinks, and other methods but I was still a freaking drunk. The easier softer way did not seem to work.

The bottom line is I am not a Saint, I try to work the principles of AA, I don’t do ‘em perfectly but I do realize that for me, this program by Doctor Bob and Bill W. has helped me string along 13 1/2 years of sobriety.

The 3 pertinent ideas of AA hold very true to me.
A) I’m an Alcoholic and had no skills on managing my life. Running life my way was not working.
B) No human power could relieve my alcoholism, no matter what books, shrinks or other methods I tried.
C) GOD did relieve my alcoholism when I sought him.

For those who journey down the same path as me, realize this, those chairs at the local AA meeting are the most expensive pieces of furniture you’ll ever sit it. The price we Alcoholics have paid to sit in them are enormous. To sit in that seat is to have paid with a loss of family, marriages, careers, health, finances and spirit. If you have not hit the bottom and think you can still drink, go pay the price some more. If you are blessed, you might, just might get a second shot at sitting in that chair. God will determine if you get that chance. If you are unlucky, you’ll end up in jail, in an institution or dead.

If people want to work Levy’s program, I wish them all the best. Good Luck and God bless. Just remember, if Levy’s deal does not work, and your lucky enough to get another chance, try Bill W and Doctor Bobs program, If a putz like me can string along 13.5 years you can as well.

Herkeng
LaShawns Birthday Brother (Cinco De Mayo)

I guess what I’m getting at is that I think we all have the freedom to drink or eat as long as we are temperate in our appetites. It’s that way with anything in life. As a Christian, I don’t always bring up the drinking thing because I know that some people are adamantly opposed to it and for very good reasons. Perhaps they had a family member who was an alcoholic, etc. I also think that my freedom in such matters shouldn’t be communicated to the weak or the young and impressionable. It’s a matter where you have to exercise some discernment about who you drink around and who you don’t. As for me personally, I might have a small shot of Irish whiskey as an apertif in the evenings in the comfort of my own home–just one. No more. Doesn’t matter that I’m home where I’m safe. It’s still not right to overindulge in food or drink. Our bodies are God’s temples, and we do not have permission to trash them. The Bible is rife with warnings against excessive drinking. But it doesn’t forbid it ever. It does say not to be given to “much drink.” However, Jesus did turn the water into wine at the wedding in Cana. I believe my Lord drank real wine–not grape juice.

I survived with the help of Al Anon and while I’m no poster child for robust mental health, I am a fully functioning adult who is responsible without being a loon about it and capable of happiness. And, thanks to Al Anon, I was able to understand my parents’ illness, forgive them for its negative impact on my life, and love them fully as these two flawed but remarkable humans deserved to be loved. In other words, abiding compassion which benefits every other human (and their dogs and cats) in my immediate universe, ultimately a rather significant gift.

Perhaps that is why when someone writes a book that says that alcoholics can still be social drinkers, I react with a great deal of skepticism and no small amount of anger at the damage potential.

William:

Thanks for the kind words.

But all that aside, I can say if you’ve had a drinking problem, staying away from it can’t hurt . if you can somehow show that it does, I can pretty much be sure that the damage is less than that caused by continuing drinking.

One point is that if the person does one day give into temptation and have a drink or three, they are more likely to go completely off the wagon if they have had it drilled into them that they are “powerless” over alcohol and that if they have one drink, a binge is basically inevitable. It’s a classic case of “all-or-nothing thinking” which the Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy scientists identify as one of the cognitive distortions that can lead to problems.

Ms. Barber’s claim is quite testable:

A drunk cannot have a drink or two, and stop (unless he passes out), generally speaking. Even if he somehow manages to get through a few days “controlling” his drinking, it’s going to spiral out of control. That’s the nature of the addiction. The only way for a drunk to get control of his life is to stop drinking alcohol.

As far as I can tell, and again I’m not an expert, the data do not support this claim AND there is some data to show that the claim is in fact counterproductive and may make things worse.

Are there some people for whom total abstinence is the best and only solution? I don’t know, could be. But to speak for every other alcoholic out there based solely on one’s own experience and AA dogma is irresponsible.

I’m sure a lot of them are enough like you that you can speak about theirs. But some may be different, and unless you know all the worlds drunks, or at least a pretty large sample, you don’t know that some aren’t different enough from you that what’s best for you would be worst for them and vice versa.

If only alcoholics and drug addicts weren’t so accomplished at gaming the system. A lot of the people I’ve met in recovery admit they tried therapy first, because it was the easier, softer way. And it didn’t work because an addict while in their addiction can. not. tell. the. truth.

Back on topic, I tried what’s called “Rational Recovery” in the years I knew I had a problem but couldn’t/wouldn’t admit it. It was a program that made everyone else feel better that I was doing something.

It wasn’t until I got into AA that I felt better because I was doing something for me.

Everyone’s mileage may vary, but I’ll still with the motto, “One is too many, a thousand never enough.”

I like most of what you’re saying. I’m just curious b/c you lost me at the end. What is LaShawn saying that is wrong? That moderation can’t work? I didn’t recall reading her say that other approaches don’t work, rather, unless I misunderstood her, that approaches that let you still drink will fail. I think (although I haven’t seen the numbers) that if alcoholics dabble with drinking, a disproportionate number will progress past that point and end up in the sinker again. Now, if you’re saying that they will but so will people in other groups, point well taken. Because there is no methodology with anything approaching a success rate that’s greater than flipping a coin, your point is well taken.

But all that aside, I can say if you’ve had a drinking problem, staying away from it can’t hurt . if you can somehow show that it does, I can pretty much be sure that the damage is less than that caused by continuing drinking.

Perhaps though I’m misundertanding your point.

However your points are excellent and I’ve really enjoyed reading what you have to say – I’m hoping to read more

The problem with your post is that if you attend enough AA meetings, you’ll see it’s a True Believer system. If people can quit without AA and without being dry drunks, they are living testimony that much of what Bill wrote is incorrect. If AA is someone’s thing, it’s fine. But I’ve had more than a few people ask me, specifically me, how I did it without AA b/c my life has been truly blessed since I quit drinking. I told them honestly what I did and how I did it. I told them they should investigate any approach they find and see each one for what it is. I never (back then) steered people away from AA, I just did steer them to what worked for me. THe hostility I encountered from many AA members, many of them former friends, one of them my former sponsor was truly awful. After seeing this cycle repeat itself a few times, I started to see that doing it outside of the AA method honestly threatens and intimidates a lot of people. There’s a lot of rhetorical games that AA members play (take for instance the defintion of Alcoholism as a disease. If you doubt it, they’ll point to scientific studies indicating it’s a disease. But then when you try to address it from that point of view, they fall back into the “It’s a spiritual disease” thing which of course can’t be cured. They mix the medical definition of disease and spiritual definition (which they clearly say are much different) at will and it honestly looks no different from a bait and switch gimmick. If it were as effective as it claims, transparent games like this woulnd’t need to be played.

Even to those who say AA works, one could point out that other things might have worked too. I agree that Aa will work for some people. But in my experience with AA, which spanned several years and many different rooms in many different states, I saw mostly the same things. You do it Bill’s way. If it’s not working for you, YOU’re not doing it right or working your program hard enough. Once and alcoholic always an alcoholic. Try telling any AA member that you’re cured and watch what happens. I say I’m cured all the time because I am. I don’t drink. If I wanted to take a drink and stop I could but I have no desire whatsoever to do it because I don’t need to prove it to myself. I don’t count days b/c I’ve committed myself until death to abstinence. You’d think, if you listened to what my sponsor promissed me AA would provide when I started, that my sponsor and other members would love to hear my story. But we both know that isn’t the case. They will wait until I leave and then tell the person that asked *me*, not *them*, that I’m kidding myself and I’m headed for a big fall. Now, if an AA member relapses, it’s just a relapse. If I were to , it would be because I’ve been deluding myself all this time. My being me which means being alcohol free should threaten no one or make anyone uncomfortable. And I hear nowadays that I ‘attack’ AA all the time and that’s why they get concerned but well before I ever said a word about AA, and in the majority of cases when AA never comes up, I still get met with hostility. Simply saying “I was an alcoholic. My last drink was about 7 years ago and my next drink will be during my wake when I’ve asked for my corpse to be given a shot of whiskey for old times sake” – you’d be amazed at how much negativity that simple statement can cause among AA members. Now with non-aa members, I get “You go brother – good for you, Keep it up man!” But by staying sober, being really happy and pushing the limits of what I’m capable of producing and reaping the benefits that come with it – it really threatens a lot of folks who have “You can’t do it without a Program” beaten into their heads.

If you look at empirical numbers regarding AA, few are taken and none that I’ve ever seen are anything that can be described as successful. So it no doubt works for some people. What does it cost them? In my case, my happiness. It cost my drive and desire b/c I heard how I should take it slow and cautious and _____________ fill in slogan. That was killing me. When I broke free, I finally got a taste of happiness and freedom. So in my case, the cost was way too high. I’m not alone. I know a few Rational Recovery folks and with 2 exceptions, the whole crew of us that went to rehab together are as sober today as we were as young kids and will remain that way until we die. At best, AA is merely one way and not demonstrably more effective than any of its counterparts and since no cost/benefit has been done, it’s hard to speak to anything there. I will say that AA eclipses a lot of other viable ways of dealing with alcoholism. People got and stayed sober and happy well before Bill was ever born so they proved it can be done. And many prove it can be done without AA every day. But AA people get touchy about any perceived criticism of thier approach but have no problem showing criticism after criticism toward other approaches.

Do you disagree?