Wednesday, June 25, 2008: Today, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled 5-4 that imposing the death penalty for child rape violates the Eighth Amendment’s ban on cruel and unusual punishment.
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Tuesday, January 8: Mark La Roi says: “Quick, clean and over is what they would want, right? Guillotine!”
That’s better than choking on gas or feeling electricity or poison running through your body, isn’t it? The guillotine is quick, clean, and painless, yes?
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Last June, I wrote a column for Townhall titled, Death to Child Rapists.
A Louisiana man brutally raped his wife’s eight-year-old daughter. Louisiana allows for consideration of the death penalty in rape cases involving a child under 12. The man was found guilty and sentenced to death. He appealed to Louisiana’s highest court, which upheld the sentence.
He appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court. Earlier today, the Supreme Court decided to hear the case. Louisiana is one of five states that allows the death penalty in child rape cases. South Carolina, the state of my birth, is another.
You know what decision I’m hoping for. More later…
Update (1/7): States got rid of the gas chamber because some cried, “That’s cruel!” Then more got rid of the electric chair because that, too, was “cruel.” (Although one can choose the chair, the chamber, or the gallows in some states.)
Now, some folks have issues with lethal injection, a modern and humane-if-you-ask-me way to execute murderers and rapers of children. What do they want? To fall peacefully asleep in a candle-lit room while lying on a bed of sweet-smelling roses? If I were running things, the only “choice” the condemned would have is the electric chair.
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{ 39 comments }
I also have no problem with the death penalty for rapists, for all rapes. Though with “rape” being defined so loosely these days, there would have to be hard evidence before I’d vote for it in a jury.
(sarcastically) he should’ve committed the crime here in progressive NJ where our(NASCAR) govenor just signed a bill banning capital punishment. kill a cop, slaughter a family, rape a child. no problem. here in NJ, we taxpayers will keep your sorry behind alive until you die, be it another 30, 40, or 50 years. NJ and criminals, perfect together.
It is possible to make lame excuses to avoid executing rapists of women. But there is no excuse for failing to execute a child rapist. The issue is well illustrated by the case of Amy Sue Seitz.
Nathan, well said.
As a father of three beautiful babies, it grieves me so very much every time I read a story or see a news piece about the abuse or murder of children. The commission of heinous crimes against innocent children is worthy of the most serious sanction. It sends the right message that there are lines that should not be crossed.
Child rape is indeed a heinous crime. However, I’m a little concerned making it a capital crime could prove counterproductive.
In most rape cases there are no witnesses except the victim. If the penalty for rape is death, the smartest thing the rapist can do is go ahead and kill the victim, too. Then there will be no witnesses and you’ll probably get away with it. If you do happen to get caught, the murder brings no additional punishment.
I think death is very easy punishment in this case, even though I am against death penalty. I think life in prison without possibility of parole could bring more revenge to those who seek it- his life behind bars will be a pure hell as soon as the inmates find out what is he being held for. Yet it will give him a chance to repent.
I have to chime in with Patrick (#6). I’ve seen how, for instance, a school teacher who is accused of sexual involvement with a student is guilty and sentenced to life, insofar as s/he will never teach again, long before any legal process. The fact that it turns out to be a hoax makes no difference.
I hate the crime, but I also hate the way we’ve so demonized it that the principle of “innocent ’til proven guilty” is abandoned.
Biblically, there’s no issues. I think the death penalty is a very moral thing. There are certain crimes, and individuals that society cannot deal with, so we simply give it to a higher power, and let Him figure out what to do with these people.
Certainly saves the tax payers money, and if nothing else, ensures that individual will never commit such crimes again, on this planet !
Happy New Year !!!!
Patrick, Vlad and Dooz bring very good points to the discussion. Leaving a child rapist alive and in general population is normally an eventual death sentence anyway. The death penalty should be reserved for the intentional taking of life, and then it should be available in every state.
Please do not take this as a soft view toward child rapists or any other kind of rapist. Other than murder I can’t imagine a worse crime.
There is no evidence that supports the “death penalty by other inmates” theory. If such evidence did exist, the same people who oppose the death penalty would demand that the state do more to protect child rapists from other inmates. Of course, is such an effect existed, it would be wrong and prison authorities would be working to reduce the effect.
I have to agree with Patrick and Dooz. I, too, have seen such cases. What happens if innocent people are executed before their innocence is discovered? We can’t say, “Oh, sorry we killed you, here’s your life back.” Sometimes people who have been convicted have been proven–yes, proven–innocent years later.
I just can’t endorse this.
There was a case like that in Dallas just this week: a man spent 26 years in prison for a rape that DNA evidence now proves he did not commit.
When we have guys like Mike Nifong – who I know LaShawn trusts about as far as she can throw him – deciding who gets prosecuted, is it really a good idea to expand the number of capital offenses? I’m not sure the benefit outweighs the potential for injustice.
As Christians, we have to trust that God will deal with those who abuse their god-given authority to govern.
In that sense, corruption would not be a problem if we the people held them accountable, rather than excuse their shenanigans, just because they bring us the bacon. Robert “KKK” Byrd, Nifong & the Clintonistas comes to mind among others. These people set the example that all’s fine as long as you’re doing some good.
So we have reaped what we the people sowed – mistrust of, and rampant abuse in, the government.
That said, I would not be against the death penalty as long as we have positive DNA and in-exculpable evidence. If the occasional innocent falls thru those cracks, so be it.
Patrick,
The DNA is probably the EXACT reason they wouldn’t get away with rape and murder.
Child Rapist should be executed. As should someone who rapes an adult. We’re being WAY too lenient with people now. Thanks, PC people!
The problem I have is with the ‘guilt driven’ calls of rape. ie: “Oh I shouldn’t have slept with him/her, I’ll just say they raped me”.
That leads back to your comment about the rapist and victim are the only witnesses and would be (in the case of an adult being raped…any physical evidence from someone on a child? yeah, no problem with executing them here) one reason executing adults for rape would make me balk. It would have to be CLEAR CUT for me to vote for capital punishment.
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There is no evidence that supports the “death penalty by other inmates” theory. If such evidence did exist, the same people who oppose the death penalty would demand that the state do more to protect child rapists from other inmates. Of course, is such an effect existed, it would be wrong and prison authorities would be working to reduce the effect.
Comment by Don Kosloff — 01.05.08 @ 2:13 pm”
There is evidence and people DO demand what is called “administrative segregation”. Sit in a court room long enough (which I have) or read court documents (which I have) or just know enough people in jail (which I do) and you’ll hear plenty of lawyers ask for special segregation on the part of their client due to concerns for their well-being around other inmates.
There is a hierarchy among any group of people. When that group of people includes those for whom violence is power, violence rules the day.
Good thoughts on some of the pitfalls of executions for child rapists. However, with today’s DNA technology, I would have to think that there would be no “innocents” executed.
FRODO
“Now at any rate [Gollum] is as bad as an Orc, and just an enemy. He deserves death.”
GANDALF
“Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.”
Good quote, Thomas.
Dan, I think you miss my point. Indeed the rapist/murderer may be caught and rightfully convicted thanks to DNA evidence. But the victim will be no less dead.
The twisted incentives created by the Louisiana law will result in turning crimes of rape into cases of rape + murder. I don’t see how this is good for anybody, least of all the victim.
Quoting fantasy to address reality is absurd.
My reservations about the death penalty, for any offense, hinge on the fallibility of man. I do not have enough confidence in a jury of my peers, the judicial system or modern laboratory procedures to justify the taking of a life.
It doesn’t take much more than an overzealous, corrupt or stupid prosecutor to ram a conviction through even in the presence of reasonable doubt. Fortunately, there are checks and balances built in and convictions are often overturned based on prosecutorial misconduct and/or new evidence. Once an execution takes place that door closes forever.
The chance of even one wrongful death makes the death penalty sound like a less than viable solution to me.
“Update (1/7): States got rid of the gas chamber because some cried, “That’s cruel!” Then more got rid of the electric chair because that, too, was “cruel.” (Although one can choose the chair, the chamber, or the gallows in some states.)
Now, some folks have issues with lethal injection, a modern and humane-if-you-ask-me way to execute murderers and rapers of children. What do they want? To fall peacefully asleep in a candle-lit room while lying on a bed of sweet-smelling roses? If I were running things, the only “choice” the condemned would have is the electric chair. ”
~Quick, clean and over is what they would want, right?
Guillotine!
HA!
– Admin
Quoting fantasy to address reality is absurd.
Well then, so much for all those parables Jesus told. They obviously had nothing to do with reality.
Hey Al, more than 840 people have been murdered by murderers who were not executed after their first murder conviction. How viable is that? If I am accidently executed for a murder that I did not commit, I won’t be anymore dead than if an airplane falls out of the sky and kills me while I am asleep in my bed. But there is a difference; I am much more likely to be killed by a falling airplane than I am to be accidentally executed.
Hey Al…do you believe in God?
Just ran across this:
Link
If you do a search for American Bar Association, you’ll find about the 3rd paragraph from the end that the present Supreme Court case against the death penalty has been contributed to by the EU! The site is extremely annoying – it may be because I use an old Mozilla version, but about half of it was covered with the graphics that were supposed to line the left side. In any case, there’s a lot there to make you wonder what in the heck the EU has any business doing trying to influence politics in the US.
Ticked me off, it did.
Don, you’re setting up a false dichotomy: execute every single murderer, or they will rampage through the streets and kill again and again. As you must know, those aren’t the only alternatives.
Most death penalty opponents think we should send convicted killers to prison for life without parole. Obviously there will be some danger to guards and other prisoners, but they will pose no further threat to society.
What we really need to do is address the problems in the justice system that allow murderers to be set free and kill again.
Patrick, the only alternatives for a murderer that provide an approach to justice are merciful execution, intentionally painful execution and torture. I prefer the pursuit of justice with the least harmful method. After all, I might someday be accidentally executed.
Guards and other prisoners are still part of society. Not to mention other prison employees such as nurses, maintenance personnel, teachers and social workers. Also, witnesses that a lifer might plot to have executed are members of society. In addition, people who are killed after an escape are part of society. None the people I mentioned are imaginary murder victims of unexecuted murderers. However, the imaginary accidental execution victm remains an unreal victim.
Don, well said!
Is a prison guard more or less likely to be killed by a prisoner in the line of duty, than a police officer is likely to be killed on the street?
How many nurses, maintenance personnel, teachers, social workers and other non-guards have been killed inside US prisons by people incarcerated for murder?
How many convicted murderers have escaped from US prisons and then killed again?
How many convicted murderers who are held incommunicado in Supermax-type prisons have managed to order the death of witnesses?
You say these aren’t imaginary threats, and I’m sure you are right. Yet I suspect they are quite rare and can be addressed in other ways.
And one last thing – why is it that most of the Western world does not execute murderers, yet still has fewer murders per capita than we do in the US?
Kill the Child Rapist.
The victim deserves more justice and mercy than the rapist. Killing the rapist brings a lot of closure. Sure death is quite a deterrent…
Patrick,
The rest of the Western world has always had fewer murderer than the US. Now that they have sopped executing murderers, they have more. The existence of potential murderers is independent of the number of executions.
LaShawn
What happens if you execute the wrong guy? I am seeing too many cases where people are being released after jail time when they had to wait for the advancement of technology to prove they where innocent. Exactly how heinous is killing the wrong guy?
Posters are posting about “fewer murderers”, “more murders”, blah, blah blah. Why don’t you present some statistical proof instead of pulling statements out of your behind? I can make great generalized statements about “how things are” but getting the actual data is much harder.
“Hey Al, more than 840 people have been murdered by murderers who were not executed after their first murder conviction. How viable is that? If I am accidently executed for a murder that I did not commit, I won’t be anymore dead than if an airplane falls out of the sky and kills me while I am asleep in my bed. But there is a difference; I am much more likely to be killed by a falling airplane than I am to be accidentally executed.”
That has got to be one of the most idiodic things I have seen. That has nothing to do with the question at hand. The fact that an innocent person is murdered by the state means everything not degrees of death. Where did the 840 number come from? Sources?
I’d like to see child rapists given the 18th century penalty for treason, especially that part about you shall be hanged by the neck until you are not quite dead. But having been a jury forman, having my life in the jury’s hand’s is a damn scary proposition if you are facing death and are innocent.
Richard,
How heinous is any accidental death?
Richard,
The 840 number is from the Stanford Law Review. But what if it were only 10?
Richard,
The Stanford Law Review analysis estimated “only” 821 victims in 1984: “Of the roughly 52,000 state prison inmates serving time for murder in 1984, an estimated 810 had previously been convicted of murder and had killed 821 persons following their previous murder convictions. Executing each of these inmates would have saved 821 lives.” (41, 1 Stanford Law Review, 11/88, pg. 153)
However; since than, I know of one previously convicted murderer who murdered 11 more victims after he was released on parole.
Hey Don
Keeping them in prison would have also saved those lives. What about replacing death with life without parole. Or do we execute them because we don’t trust our ability to actually do that? If true they are being executed because we don’t trust ourselves?
The infallibility of mankind is vastly overrated.
“How heinous is any accidental death”.
If you cannot see the difference between an officially sanctioned killing of an innocent and a slip and fall off a ladder we see where the wrongly condemed fall in your world.
Richard,
In the first place LWOP is unjust for the victim. However, in a slightly less principled vein, once the death penalty is gone, LWOP won’t be far behind. An internatinal “tribunal” has already decleared LWOP to be too cruel to be used. About two years ago, the Michigan ACLU began its campaign against LWOP as they have no death penalty cases to worry about there. An federal appeals court judge in the south also wrote a dissenting opinion asserting that LWOP could not be used because it is cruel and unusual. Right now you anti-DP folk have to expend your resources saving murderers from a reasonable approach to justice. Once you no longer have to keep murderers alive, you will be able to devote all of your resources to getting murderers back onto the streets sooner.
So Richard,
How heinous is any accidental death? Why don’t you answer that?
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