“I read your comment as saying that a woman who is raped has “qualms” about carrying a child that was violently created. Then, you appear to say that the “qualms” would be even greater if the rapist were of a different race. You then say “People who say otherwise are flat out liars – period.”

Therefore, I read you as saying that these “qualms” and higher order “qualms” in the case of different races are fact and so say otherwise automatically makes one a liar.”

TBD says:

Yes..MOST white conservative Christians would be liars, if they said they would not be mortified exponentially had their child been raped and impregnated by a non-white male.

heliotrope:

“I do not know on what authority you make that detemination. That was my question.

I do not believe that any insemination due to rape is greeted with immediate joy. I do believe that many women who believe in life will accept the fact of the pregnancy and move forward to careful prenatal care and a safe delivery.”

TBD:

We dissent there. I don’t believe that even the most pro-life woman who is classified as I said before will wholeheartedly accept that scenario. If they didn’t abort it, that baby could not be born quick enough so it could be sent off to an adoption agency.

heliotrope:

“The child is innocent in all cases. Since the child is genetically half of the mother I would imagine that many women would raise the child with great love and affection.”

TBD:

Your selective faith in people perplexes me, heliotrope.

heliotrope:

“I read the “qualms” as ranging from dread to abortion to suicide. I read the mention of a “different race” as being prejudice which increases the “dread.” Then I read that if I disagree, that I am a liar.

Color me a liar. Certainly, some people would fit your statement, but not all. In fact, among those who are pro-life, I do not think it would be many.”

TBD:

“If you could hang with having your daughter raped and impregnated by a “black” man, then more power to you, heliotrope. You’re not a typical conservative white male, and I would consider that quality in you stratospheric in it’s exceptional-ness”

heliotrope:

“Among the liberal elite, perhaps you are correct.”

TBD:

What the hell ever, heliotrope. You all kill me acting like white christian conservatives are so accepting and loving and magnanamuous towards non-whites. You’re NOT. In that vein, MOST are just like lawless heathens in their lack of charity towards people of other ethnic persuasions, though obviously YOU and JB must be truly exceptional people. I applaud you for that. You ARE exceptions, apparently, even amid much of the questionable things I’ve seen coming from your cyber pseudonyms. Good for you, my brother!

heliotrope:

“I feel that your opinion is insular, at best.”

TBD:

Well I can see why YOU might say that, if what you’ve written about your circle of influence is true. Again, you’re obviously an exception. You can take that for what it’s worth to you.

Purely by their BEHAVIORS, I don’t trust much of what contemporary Christians say or do. Sorry.

Choice.
Yeah, right.

A friend of mine recently had a baby who needed a pacemaker immediately after birth. The high risk doctors encouraged her to “terminate.” They’ve had their little boy home for about a month now.

Even if he would have died, you can’t tell me a doctor would have been right to tell someone to abort. Pregnancies only last nine months at most either way.

I am eternally grateful his parents did not. And he did, in fact live out his teens – and is now 35.

I read your comment as saying that a woman who is raped has “qualms” about carrying a child that was violently created. Then, you appear to say that the “qualms” would be even greater if the rapist were of a different race. You then say “People who say otherwise are flat out liars – period.”

Therefore, I read you as saying that these “qualms” and higher order “qualms” in the case of different races are fact and so say otherwise automatically makes one a liar.

I do not know on what authority you make that detemination. That was my question.

I do not believe that any insemination due to rape is greeted with immediate joy. I do believe that many women who believe in life will accept the fact of the pregnancy and move forward to careful prenatal care and a safe delivery. The child is innocent in all cases. Since the child is genetically half of the mother I would imagine that many women would raise the child with great love and affection.

I read the “qualms” as ranging from dread to abortion to suicide. I read the mention of a “different race” as being prejudice which increases the “dread.” Then I read that if I disagree, that I am a liar.

Color me a liar. Certainly, some people would fit your statement, but not all. In fact, among those who are pro-life, I do not think it would be many.

Among the liberal elite, perhaps you are correct. I do not see very many different race couples among them. But I have a large circle of mixed race families in my life. My grandchildren attend a school where over 40% of the children come from parents of different races. I feel that your opinion is insular, at best.

Singapore, for instance, has the toughest laws and regulations on practically everything. Singaporeans are tightly regimented people. But once they’re out of the island nation, watch out! Malaysia does have copyright laws and enforces them, but you can still pick up pirated DVDs just about anywhere.

What laws do is provide a snapshot, a kind of insight into the ‘moral’ fibre of the people who promulgate them. The Syariah laws tell you what kind of religion Islam is, for instance, and what kind of person Muhammad was. You can learn a lot about how ancient Sumerians thought by studying Hamurabbi’s laws.

Similarly, should anti-abortion (except for lifesaving) laws pass (or gay marriage, or whatever), you can tell generally whay the public is thinking and what their value systems are.

Unless it’s judicial activism, but that’s a different story.

iow, should anti-abortion pass, we’re actually saying to women that “if you want to get an abortion, you have to face criminal prosecution ie face the consequences of your actions.” Let the doctors continue performing them – you may need to save some mothers’ lives.

“Is this gleaned from faith and scripture or do you have some unique power that backs up this proclamation?”

Sheesh Heliotrope…of all that I wrote, this is what you focus on?

My answer is:

BEHAVIORS…and yours is no exception.

It seems that as you’ve apparently been around, that you don’t know that.

People who say otherwise are flat out liars – period.

Is this gleaned from faith and scripture or do you have some unique power that backs up this proclamation?

My mother had to do that with my stillborn sister after something went wrong in the 8th month (I don’t know what; I was six) and that’s the saddest thing I can imagine having to do.

I’ve never understood how a fully-informed woman could do that on purpose. *shudder* Vile. I assume this is why people fight so hard against abortionists being required to fully-inform women…

The most inspiring part about Gianna’s story to me is that she was able to forgive her birth mother. I don’t know if I could.

Assuming we are talking about Christians acting in the capacity of government, Romans 13:1-5 by way of Deuteronomy 1:9-18.

I’ve already covered the basic precepts behind my position. If you have another interpretation that draws from Scripture, please illuminate us. Otherwise, your hemming and hawing about what “credible Biblical scholars” thinks is so much lip service.

If you can explain how God could provide for a death penalty in the Mosaic Law to be judged by men, reaffirm the God-given right of a government to use “the sword” to punish and still come to the conclusion that the modern death penalty is un-Biblical, I would surely change my position on the matter.